dForce Hair (as well as strand based hair and the strand based hair editor) in public beta

Joepingleton

.

Szark

Thanks Joe, well that is good. I am running an i7 also but have  a 1080ti so it should cope with what I will throw at it.

Leonides02

Richard Haseltine said:

The publicly available tools allow customers to make strand based hair, and to use dForce hair, but not to turn Strand based hair into dForce hair.

I appreciate the reply, Steve. Is this permanent or temporary? If it’s permanent, what’s the point in giving us with the ability to make strand-based hair that is obviously capable of dForce, but not allow us to use that feature? That’s honestly a little maddening. I understand (and want) the PA’s and DAZ to make money, but I don’t think allowing us access to these tools would impact the bottom line. I mean, technically all of us could use Blender to create characters or clothes, but most of us don’t.

The hair tools are enhanced over Garibaldi, and you can export as OBJ and treat it like dForce cloth (but not hair).

But why? It's clear the PA's have access to a feature we don't have, but I don't understand why we're not being given the same tools. We all have access to the ability to make dForce clothing if we wanted to, for instance, but few of us go through the trouble. Is it because once you become proficient in strand-based hair you wouldn't need to buy hair if the dFroce weren't handicapped? 

 

AllenArt

Leonides02 said:

Richard Haseltine said:

Leonides02 said:

DAZ_Steve said:

The publicly available tools allow customers to make strand based hair, and to use dForce hair, but not to turn Strand based hair into dForce hair.

I appreciate the reply, Steve. Is this permanent or temporary? If it’s permanent, what’s the point in giving us with the ability to make strand-based hair that is obviously capable of dForce, but not allow us to use that feature? That’s honestly a little maddening. I understand (and want) the PA’s and DAZ to make money, but I don’t think allowing us access to these tools would impact the bottom line. I mean, technically all of us could use Blender to create characters or clothes, but most of us don’t.

The hair tools are enhanced over Garibaldi, and you can export as OBJ and treat it like dForce cloth (but not hair).

But why? It's clear the PA's have access to a feature we don't have, but I don't understand why we're not being given the same tools. We all have access to the ability to make dForce clothing if we wanted to, for instance, but few of us go through the trouble. Is it because once you become proficient in strand-based hair you wouldn't need to buy hair if the dFroce weren't handicapped? 

 

That's my guess, which feels kinda "shifty". I can't  help feeling that way. Why even bother telling us about dforce strand hair then if we can't ever make it? I'm getting a bad taste in my mouth now....

Laurie

Sorel

Yeah not to sound ungrateful, I was really excited for this now I'm just depressed.

barbult

The revelation that we users won't be able to create our own dForce strand hair did take some shine off the new toys. But let's look at the glass half full. We will finally be able to purchase and render dynamic hair! Daz didn't have to give us any creation capability, but they let us create our own strand based hair. I'm having a lot of fun with just that tool.

takezo_3001

Great, brilliant use of strand hair, without the ability to use the best feature of strand hair... talk about defeating your own purpose!

 

AllenArt said:

That's my guess, which feels kinda "shifty". I can't  help feeling that way. Why even bother telling us about dforce strand hair then if we can't ever make it? I'm getting a bad taste in my mouth now....

Laurie

 

Szark

barbult said:

The revelation that we users won't be able to create our own dForce strand hair did take some shine off the new toys. But let's look at the glass half full. We will finally be able to purchase and render dynamic hair! Daz didn't have to give us any creation capability, but they let us create our own strand based hair. I'm having a lot of fun with just that tool.

I agree and I am not a sycophant but DAZ Studio is free and I am loving the direction they are taking it and let us not forget DAZ3D is a content based business. Yes it is a little disappointing for those that render human figures all the time, which i don't anymore so for me I am not too bothered but I can sympathize and can see why this is the case.. 

Richard Haseltine

takezo_3001 said:

Great, brilliant use of strand hair, without the ability to use the best feature of strand hair... talk about defeating your own purpose!

 

AllenArt said:

That's my guess, which feels kinda "shifty". I can't  help feeling that way. Why even bother telling us about dforce strand hair then if we can't ever make it? I'm getting a bad taste in my mouth now....

Laurie

Without the ability to create the dForce hair - you will be able to use it.

takezo_3001

Richard Haseltine said:

takezo_3001 said:

Great, brilliant use of strand hair, without the ability to use the best feature of strand hair... talk about defeating your own purpose!

 

AllenArt said:

That's my guess, which feels kinda "shifty". I can't  help feeling that way. Why even bother telling us about dforce strand hair then if we can't ever make it? I'm getting a bad taste in my mouth now....

Laurie

Without the ability to create the dForce hair - you will be able to use it.

I guess we can use this for eyelashes, brows and body hair, so all is not totally lost I suppose... it's too bad we can't make flowing d-forced hair for animation...

PhilW

Leonides02 said:

PhilW said:

I've just had this pass testing so thought I would share a preview - it's called Longdrape Hair (it is long and it drapes!). It is a dForce Hair, it drapes very fast and will come with lots of options such as different shapes which will affect how it drapes (in front of or behind the shoulders etc), 25 colors, different lengths and so on. I hope you will like it.

Wow! Now we’re talking. That’s fantastic, Phil. Did you use the strand hairs and then convert them to dForce?

Thanks for the kind comments. Yes this one was converted from Strand Based Hair to dForce Hair, and as has been implied, that option is only available to Daz PAs. I am also experimenting with other ways to produce hair, each method has its plusses and minuses, but this particular hair came out well I think.

 

fastbike1 said:

@PhilW "it's called Longdrape Hair (it is long and it drapes!)"

I'm hoping some of the length options are shorter. We don't always want mid-back or longer hair.

Otherwise, looks fab.

Yes the length options are all shorter. They basically cut the ends off the already draped hair, so you don't need to re-drape to see the effect, which is cool and allows you to quickly try out alternatives.

 

Sorel said:

So is the strand hair by itself dynamic at all?

No, you need dForce Hair to be dynamic. 

Wonderland

Ok, I don't get this at all.... First image is combed screen, second is tweaked screen which is nothing like combed screen, then screen image, then partially rendered image. Bangs are separate and work OK, but long hair is not responding to comb correctly. What did I do wrong?

 

BlueIrene

barbult said:

The revelation that we users won't be able to create our own dForce strand hair did take some shine off the new toys. But let's look at the glass half full. We will finally be able to purchase and render dynamic hair! Daz didn't have to give us any creation capability, but they let us create our own strand based hair. I'm having a lot of fun with just that tool.

This, pretty much. I never really imagined that we'd be let loose with the dForce hair (to the point where I don't think I've even looked at the included sample and am idly wondering what makes it any different to products like Bang Bob Hair With dForce For Genesis 8 Female(s) etc). I'm not even that bothered about not being able to access dForce if we can make our own strand-based hair within Daz and brush our hair creations in the direction of gravity when pose changes call for it. This would have been the stuff of dreams not so long ago. Monday, I think :) As long as the strand-based hair creator doesn't become an ignored feature and improvements are made where needed (selection tools, mostly), I'm not complaining. I appreciate that Daz has to make money, and with my hairdressing skills being what they are I expect I'll get plenty of opportunities to financially compensate the company for the new goodies. For the record though, this would have been just the same if we'd been given the dForce tools as I'd merely be creating ropey hairdos with gravity!

PhilW

@Wonderland You will want to adjust the Parting Angle (I think from memory it is on the Style page but you need to open it up, it is easy to miss). The default is 180 which means that hairs are interpolated from the guide lines whatever the angle between them. By reducing it (try 90 for example) and the hairs part where the angle between adjacent hairs is  more than 90 degrees. So it needs to be adjusted relative to your particular style. Set it too high and you get hair where you don't want it, set it too low and the hair starts splitting into separate bunches, so use the feedback to set it how you want. You can turn on and off various preview modes towards the bottom of the right hand panel.

Leonides02

Richard Haseltine said:

takezo_3001 said:

Great, brilliant use of strand hair, without the ability to use the best feature of strand hair... talk about defeating your own purpose!

 

AllenArt said:

That's my guess, which feels kinda "shifty". I can't  help feeling that way. Why even bother telling us about dforce strand hair then if we can't ever make it? I'm getting a bad taste in my mouth now....

Laurie

Without the ability to create the dForce hair - you will be able to use it.

But why can't we create it? Again, we were given access to the clothing dForce tools, which as been great because I've successfully bought and converted many previously non-dForce outfits.

One of the reasons I've love Daz is because it has always let us go as far as our technically skills allow. If I wanted to learn how to make hairs or sculpt in zbrush, I could. However, this handicapping doesn't feel good. It makes me sad.

 

oomu

Chohole said:

oomu said:

it's definitely old plugin Garibaldi merged in DAZ Studio. So now it will not break with future DAZ and it will be iray compatible without complications and crazy export/import in obj format.

It's great. I'll use it a lot. Thank you.

And Dforce Hair will be a great tool to use too.

 

---

Now, what I really love to have, it's the possibility to create HD morphs (with ZBrush for example) without commiting to be a professional creator and a commercial relationships with DAZ :).   Maybe a "not redistribuable" licence (allowing only to create assets for private use) or a then, if needed for to justify the feature, a fee for amateurish use.

Please read here :-  https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/4581196/#Comment_4581196

I didn't mean there was not huge work behind. Of course, it's way more integrated, modernized and obviously rewrote. I'm very looking forward to use it on a mac.

Wonderland

PhilW said:

@Wonderland You will want to adjust the Parting Angle (I think from memory it is on the Style page but you need to open it up, it is easy to miss). The default is 180 which means that hairs are interpolated from the guide lines whatever the angle between them. By reducing it (try 90 for example) and the hairs part where the angle between adjacent hairs is  more than 90 degrees. So it needs to be adjusted relative to your particular style. Set it too high and you get hair where you don't want it, set it too low and the hair starts splitting into separate bunches, so use the feedback to set it how you want. You can turn on and off various preview modes towards the bottom of the right hand panel.

Thank you so much @PhilW! Was going crazy with this!

WendyLuvsCatz

I don't see why you couldn't make it dfoceable the same way I can Zbrush fibermesh hair

have a separate root surface that you dial simulation down on

video zbrush conformed hair

PhilW

Wonderland said:

PhilW said:

@Wonderland You will want to adjust the Parting Angle (I think from memory it is on the Style page but you need to open it up, it is easy to miss). The default is 180 which means that hairs are interpolated from the guide lines whatever the angle between them. By reducing it (try 90 for example) and the hairs part where the angle between adjacent hairs is  more than 90 degrees. So it needs to be adjusted relative to your particular style. Set it too high and you get hair where you don't want it, set it too low and the hair starts splitting into separate bunches, so use the feedback to set it how you want. You can turn on and off various preview modes towards the bottom of the right hand panel.

Thank you so much @PhilW! Was going crazy with this!

Glad it was helpful.

3Diva

dougj said:

Divamakeup said:

Thought I'd try my hand at a male hairstyle. The hair needs a bit of work as I didn't notice the poke-through at the ears before rendering. But I like how it come out otherwise. :)

 

This hair looks good. What width settings did you use?

Thank you! The hair has gone through some adjustments but with this render, if I remember correctly, the "Density" is around 50 and the hair strand widths at "Base (mm)" is .18, I think. And the "Tip (mm)" is at .10, I think.

3Diva

@SimonJM I think you can add as many Strand Based Hair "Instances" (or whatever you want to call them) as you want to a figure or object. So I was thinking, to get a more natural transition with hair, maybe add two "instances" of Strand Based Hair? The first, around the edges, which should be less dense and thinner hair and then the "main hair" should probably start a little way into the first "parameter" "instance" of thinner hair so that there's a transition area. There's probably an easier way to do it though - maybe? lol I wonder if there is a way to do the maps so that it can distribute the hair thinner and lighter in certain areas and then denser and a little thicker in other areas. Hopefully there is a way to do that (and hopefully I'm not too dense to figure it out lol). :)

3Diva

Eboshijaana said:

Here is my test of the fur mimicking textures; https://i.imgur.com/xEQWgH7.png

Method: Dual-Lobe shader from the dForce demo product. Turn ALL the surfaces white and apply the fur texture to where you can. Glossy at 0.20.

Quality of life thoughts;

- Can the model PLEASE stay in place when rotating?

- In the style tab, having an mirored option for styling would be nice.

- Also in the style tab, can the hair selection be either a brush or anything other than a rectangle?
 

- Multiple layers hair, please?

+1 to all those!

 

The dogs look great! :)

3Diva

Oso3D said:

For a long time I've been experimenting with fibermesh and... not thrilled. For one thing, any morphs or movement can cause fibermesh to distort annoyingly.

Strand hair, beautifully, _doesn't do that_.

 

I'm so stoked.

 

Dito! I'm tickled pink by this! Daz3D has done so well with this! And it's only going to get better, since this is just the beta! :D

3Diva

RawArt said:

Just so ya know....PA's are having fun with this too.......I can finally make all the fur-bearing characters I wanted to for so long!

HAHAH I love it! Bigfoot likes beer - who knew!? lol :D

3Diva

barbult said:

Thank you all for the positive feedback and tips. I'm having a great time playing with the new toys. I'm eager to see more of what PAs have been making, too.

I'm impressed with what I'm seeing from you so far - I hope you post more! :D The women's style you did is absolutely fantastic!

3Diva

Wonderland said:

Lame attempt at the Millenium cat... Only 65% rendered after 1 hour on 1080ti. Not sure how people are saying this renders fast! And we really need instructions! I*s there a way to make the hair uneven? I like the comb but wish there was more control over it, making tufts in some places longer than others. If there is, it's not intuitive at all...

hahah That tongue though! My cat does that and it looks so cute here. :)

I've not had any of my Strand Based Hair renders anywhere near an hour. I have a GeForce GTX 970. 

You can make the hair more uneven in the "Tweak" tab. Try adjusting the "Random Length". :)

barbult

Divamakeup said:

barbult said:

Thank you all for the positive feedback and tips. I'm having a great time playing with the new toys. I'm eager to see more of what PAs have been making, too.

I'm impressed with what I'm seeing from you so far - I hope you post more! :D The women's style you did is absolutely fantastic!

Thanks. I think that was entirely beginners luck. I twirled dials with no clue about what they did. I just looked in the viewport for feedback. I've never used Garibaldi, so I had nothing to go on. 

Edit: Nothing to go on other than the tool tips from the ?.

3Diva

Szark said:

It amazes me how quick some of you are and getting awesome results, took me ages to get the hang of Garibaldi. 

I have had Garibaldi Hair plugin for quite a few years and only made a handful of renders using it. Not because of the plug-in just because it takes time and the last few years time has been short. I am showing these to show what can be done and I have no doubt the reworked internal strand hair should be no different and work well.

This is all 3DL before Iray came out

This was my first play and render doing spines back in '13

https://www.deviantart.com/itiseyemeeszark/art/Brian-377346493

'14 

https://www.deviantart.com/itiseyemeeszark/art/Xerr-s-got-a-new-coat-428585798

The beard and dog

https://www.deviantart.com/itiseyemeeszark/art/Singing-the-Blues-Take-3-447219377

Just the birds body (if I had used the clumping I could have gotten and fairly good facsimile of feathers)

https://www.deviantart.com/itiseyemeeszark/art/Paridise-Lost-446824876

 

This was Iray, exported out the hair as obj, glad we don't need to do that anymore.

https://www.deviantart.com/itiseyemeeszark/art/Foraging-611119379

I haven't had a good look at the new internal UI yet but Gone made some better human hair renders in the old Garibaldi thread. https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/17751/garibaldi-express-hair-and-fur-plugin-commercial/p1 It might be some help but don't slap me if the new UI is completely different. :) 

Wow - Those are really cool! I particularly like the red birds and the foraging ones. Using the hair plugin for "feathers" is a fantastic idea. I hope we can do similar things with the new Strand Based Hair system. :) 

VortigensBane

PhilW said:

I've just had this pass testing so thought I would share a preview - it's called Longdrape Hair (it is long and it drapes!). It is a dForce Hair, it drapes very fast and will come with lots of options such as different shapes which will affect how it drapes (in front of or behind the shoulders etc), 25 colors, different lengths and so on. I hope you will like it.

 

I am totally sold!

Oso3D

Working on a set of fur that can be applied to a variety of anthro characters. (This is several HFS shapes with Anubis skin texture)