Official Release of Carrara 8.5 **Update - 8.5.1.19**

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Comments

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 31,145
    edited December 1969

    oh I killed a scene using Fenrics shader doctor to reduce highlight on some Poser format figures so I would not say all plugins working.
    need to repeat to be sure before I inform Fenric and busy rendering right now but I would say a few plugins might need updating.

  • edited December 1969

    I also have to wonder why DAZ if this is a new release would put older DAZ Victoria 5 in there and not version 6? it's like saying, hey we adding a bunch of extra value items but its older. The real value to upgrade would have been to have current next gen figures in there. Just saying as more of a tip maybe for DAZ in the future.

  • Jay_NOLAJay_NOLA Posts: 1,145
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_Spooky,

    1.) Where are the newer Genesis Hair Caps located in the downloadable files? I'm not seeing them for manual download.

    2.) The Digital Painters Shaders still don't show up as being part of Carrara 8.5 you said that had been added in a previous post.

    Jay_NOLA said:
    Thanks DAZ_Spooky,

    The Digital Painters Shaders still aren't showing up as part of 8.5.

    Therese are showing up now as part of the 8.5 Pro Bundle now:

    Carrara Hair Caps
    DigitalPainters 3DPaint Brushes Sampler
    Howies Snow Scene

    Great to see that the missing stuff in 8.5 is being fixed and for clarifying what 8.5 has in it.

    I hope DAZ makes the older V4 & M4 shaders for Carrara available for sale so newer Crarrara user who want them can purchase them. (They were only in the older build only.)

    I'm not sure if the missing downloads for the older versions of Mimic Pro for is going to get fixed.

    I have to update the plugin info I wrote in the Carrara information manual thread to mention the After effects plugin is not part of 8.5 and doesn't work with newer version of After Effects which i why it wasn't included.


    Howie's snow scene wasn't supposed to. It is a beautiful scene but it plays havoc with 32 bit versions of Carrara. The hair caps also shouldn't be there as they were replaced by a newer version designed specifically for Genesis, and should be in your Content directory and Smart Content. You are much better off using the new hair caps as they will morph with your character.
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 18,002
    edited December 1969

    I also have to wonder why DAZ if this is a new release would put older DAZ Victoria 5 in there and not version 6? it's like saying, hey we adding a bunch of extra value items but its older. The real value to upgrade would have been to have current next gen figures in there. Just saying as more of a tip maybe for DAZ in the future.
    Oh, man.... don't go getting insulting now! ;)
    V5 and M5 are hardly old. Genesis 2 Male hasn't been released (or even finished(?)) yet, making the V5/M5 bundles a no-brainer. Plus, they're invaluable additions to the Genesis collection. I am amazed at how much it expanded my pose collection. I bought 8.5 Pro, which came with extra M5 and V5 Carrara shader presets as well. But the more that gets added to Genesis - the more potent it becomes. Genesis 2 will come soon enough.
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 18,002
    edited December 1969

    More:
    DAZ 3D, in my honest opinion, has survived "the scary times" very well, and have an amazing future ahead. We've got that amazing lineup of artists making really great stuff for us all... I foresee Genesis 2 being a screaming success as we push forward. I have small collection of items for Genesis, and already it's an incredible asset. I needed to find 'individual' monsters. I started trying some of the creatures expansions for Genesis- like Creature Creator, Raw Art and Midnight Stories, SMay, and other artist's creature expansions - and I'm finding that genesis makes excellent monsters! Monstrosities just recently came out - adding a whole new realm to how I can shape and scale them!

    The DAZ future looks bright to me!

  • nDelphinDelphi Posts: 1,832
    edited December 1969

    Dartanbeck,

    I hear you, let's hope that Carrara has 10 more years to go.

    But I always wonder if DAZ isn't working on a new render engine. As I think that ultimately that maybe why more and more people exit for the likes of Modo and Cinema 4D, even if they are more expensive.

  • CbirdCbird Posts: 493
    edited December 1969

    Thank you! Your approach makes sense to me. I'll see what happens :)

    You guys get one stop ticket reporting, we get to have the right people doing the right job.

    The know issue list is in the Carrara 8.5 Readme. That's excellent. I must admit that I felt a bit 'impatient' towards the new web space, but really start to see amazing benefits as time unfolds. I am really excited for the bright, continued success and future here, at DAZ 3D. The documentation articles that keep going up 'behind the scenes' are really good. I am learning a lot of good stuff from that of DS Pro/Genesis content creation - and jared had a beautiful start on that for Carrara. I bet the new tracker will be cool.

    Apologies for the rookie question, but should I uninstall all 8 pro versions on my PC before installing? Will 8.5 install over? Do any plugins or content need to be uninstalled, then reinstalled? I'm hoping by asking first I can avoid creating a mess.

    On my workstation, I still have 8.1 Pro, 8.5 Pro beta, along with the new 8.5 Pro, which installed to a fresh, new directory. So I believe that the choice is yours.
    So far it seems like all of my Carrara 8 64 bit plugins are working in 8.5 Pro.

    I imagine that, if you uninstalled 8.1 or 8.5 beta, and then installed into that same directory, you wouldn't have the need to reinstall any of your plugins and/or other products that get installed to the Carrara directory. Should work, but I never do that simply because I want to use the default, suggested directory, for one, and I never like the idea of renaming an existing directory to avoid that causing trouble down the road - but I'm not savvy towards how that works - so I prefer to fresh install all new versions.

  • GigabeatGigabeat Posts: 164
    edited December 1969

    I also have to wonder why DAZ if this is a new release would put older DAZ Victoria 5 in there and not version 6? it's like saying, hey we adding a bunch of extra value items but its older. The real value to upgrade would have been to have current next gen figures in there. Just saying as more of a tip maybe for DAZ in the future.
    Oh, man.... don't go getting insulting now! ;)
    V5 and M5 are hardly old. Genesis 2 Male hasn't been released (or even finished(?)) yet, making the V5/M5 bundles a no-brainer. Plus, they're invaluable additions to the Genesis collection. I am amazed at how much it expanded my pose collection. I bought 8.5 Pro, which came with extra M5 and V5 Carrara shader presets as well. But the more that gets added to Genesis - the more potent it becomes. Genesis 2 will come soon enough.

    Man don't get me started on Daz & Genesis / Genesis 2 Female. I'm primarly a Daz Studio user and just experimenting with Carrara now and again as a hobby. With these new generation figures it was like Daz gave us a wonderful bit of candy with the versitility of Genesis unisex fiqure and then snatched it away when they decided to go break it apart into separate female and "evantualy" male figures. "I'm sorry kiddies but this candy is just too sweet for you". Grrrr. It all left such a bad taste in my mouth. I'm not a content creator so I don't know the difficulty of making content for unisex figures but man Genesis (1) has been wonderful to use in Daz Studio. Guess I should see how it fares in Carrara too.

  • cgboltoncgbolton Posts: 9
    edited December 1969

    As an owner of Carrara 8 Pro, I am shocked and insulted that you would expect me to pay 50% of the price of the full version software for just a .5 upgrade. No thanks, I'll pass and see if you can do better with pricing and features in 9.0.... although we might be waiting a few years for that one.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 18,002
    edited December 1969

    nDelphi said:
    Dartanbeck,

    I hear you, let's hope that Carrara has 10 more years to go.

    But I always wonder if DAZ isn't working on a new render engine. As I think that ultimately that maybe why more and more people exit for the likes of Modo and Cinema 4D, even if they are more expensive.
    I really hope not. If it's a supplemental render, maybe... I sure love Carrara's 'immediate' rendering capabilities. I need that.
    Plus, DAZ 3D is just that: "Digital Art Zone in Three Dimensions". They're doing a killer job of it. Artists working with and for other artists to keep this incredible movement alive. I think we'll live forever!
    Might as well bring Carrara with us!

    Cbird said:
    Thank you! Your approach makes sense to me. I'll see what happens :)
    My Pleasure! Hope it helps ;)


    Man don't get me started on Daz & Genesis / Genesis 2 Female. I'm primarly a Daz Studio user and just experimenting with Carrara now and again as a hobby. With these new generation figures it was like Daz gave us a wonderful bit of candy with the versitility of Genesis unisex fiqure and then snatched it away when they decided to go break it apart into separate female and "evantualy" male figures. "I'm sorry kiddies but this candy is just too sweet for you". Grrrr. It all left such a bad taste in my mouth. I'm not a content creator so I don't know the difficulty of making content for unisex figures but man Genesis (1) has been wonderful to use in Daz Studio. Guess I should see how it fares in Carrara too.From what I've been seeing lately, I doubt that the Omnisex Genesis (1) is being threatened. Genesis 2 Female is an amazingly nicer figure to work with, for me. But I keep buying new things that are just now being made for Genesis one as well - and gladly! I love the original Genesis!
    But the shape of the new Gen 2 F is a tough one to ignore:

    RTG2WLSR1A.jpg
    1280 x 720 - 691K
  • GigabeatGigabeat Posts: 164
    edited August 2013

    GigaBeat said:
    Man don't get me started on Daz & Genesis / Genesis 2 Female. I'm primarly a Daz Studio user and just experimenting with Carrara now and again as a hobby. With these new generation figures it was like Daz gave us a wonderful bit of candy with the versitility of Genesis unisex fiqure and then snatched it away when they decided to go break it apart into separate female and "evantualy" male figures. "I'm sorry kiddies but this candy is just too sweet for you". Grrrr. It all left such a bad taste in my mouth. I'm not a content creator so I don't know the difficulty of making content for unisex figures but man Genesis (1) has been wonderful to use in Daz Studio. Guess I should see how it fares in Carrara too.
    From what I've been seeing lately, I doubt that the Omnisex Genesis (1) is being threatened. Genesis 2 Female is an amazingly nicer figure to work with, for me. But I keep buying new things that are just now being made for Genesis one as well - and gladly! I love the original Genesis!
    But the shape of the new Gen 2 F is a tough one to ignore:
    Yer ok I admit G2F has a great figure. And I'm doing my best as a male to suppress my hormones and think above the belt. Thinking of my hip pocket helps (though technically that still is below the belt). Anyhoot call me kinky if you want but I like some versatility in a figure. ;) Gorilla in a tutu rocks! BTW Fantastic action image Dartanbeck.
    Post edited by Gigabeat on
  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,700
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    Kerya said:
    NeilV 1 said:
    Sarsifus said:
    DAZ_jared said:
    Included in Carrara 8.5 Pro are the Michael 5 and Victoria 5 Pro Bundles and Carrara Shaders

    I'm still downloading files, but can anyone tell me which one(s) contains the V5 and M5 Carrara shaders, 'cause I'm not seeing anything in my Product Library that references that. Thanks...

    That's C8.5 native content and C8.5 pro native content.

    Fascinating
    Carrara 8.5 Pro Native Content 157.40 KB
    Carrara 8.5 Native Content 1.63 MB

    Pro is smaller????
    Both are zips ...

    maybe you need both

    All three, actually. There is also a Carrara 8 Native Content. The two mentioned are the shaders to go with the characters included with the Starter and Pro bundles. (Phillip, James, Bree and Gabi in the second file. Benjamin and Tori in the first.)

    Thank you! I think (I think ...) I am getting it slowly (very slowly).
    Thanks for being here!

  • jerhamjerham Posts: 145
    edited December 1969

    Very nice new version, and happy with it. It feels a lot smoother and handles complex scene a lot better than 8.0.

    But i'm getting a bit annoyed with some other things. Bought the Aiko 5 shaders today, aiko is still my favorite figures. But i can not download them. It is not DIM compatible but it also does not show in my product library (only the product describtion and picture).

    Made a ticket, but respons seems a bit slow in regard to tickets (also have one from last monday in regard to a wrong price i paid). anybody also have problems with downloading Aiko 5 shaders, or am i missing something?

  • Sci Fi FunkSci Fi Funk Posts: 1,046
    edited December 1969

    Wow. I go away on holiday for a week having pretty much stayed in for a year and THATS the week 8.5 comes out. lol.

    $104.xx out of my precarious bank account later and I'm downloading now.

    The most important upgrades for me will be speed orientated. Whilst I'm downloading can anyone tell me ..

    1. Is it 200% faster than 8.1 at rendering complex scenes? How about standard scenes 100%? 50%? This would be MASSIVE to me as an animator.
    2. Does the photometric (volumetric lighting) work over a network now? Again that would be huge for Blade Runner style scenes over a network. I can't network render many scenes because of this bug.

    Thanks and lets get some new tutorials out there!

  • 3dOutlaw3dOutlaw Posts: 2,421
    edited December 1969

    In my review of other animation options, I have personally ruled out iClone5/3dExchange5 due to cost, versus Carrara (looks like best cost, to include all the daz to iclone fbx stuff is $279 or so). This is what I do before purchasing anything, go out an review every alternative I can think of...then I have no buyers remorse. (you would think I am spending $1,000,000, LOL)

    Car salesmen hate me...

  • JennKJennK Posts: 834
    edited December 1969

    Well I broke down and bought it. :-) Looking forward to learning the program.

  • Sci Fi FunkSci Fi Funk Posts: 1,046
    edited December 1969

    JK0011 said:
    Well I broke down and bought it. :-) Looking forward to learning the program.

    If you are moving up from DAZ it's a smart move. A steep learning curve, but you won't regret it. I've never looked back. It took a while to adjust though.

  • JennKJennK Posts: 834
    edited December 1969

    JK0011 said:
    Well I broke down and bought it. :-) Looking forward to learning the program.

    If you are moving up from DAZ it's a smart move. A steep learning curve, but you won't regret it. I've never looked back. It took a while to adjust though.

    Been using Daz for awhile and I love it I don't see giving up on it. I tried Carrara 8 standard a bit ago and liked it's animation capabilities, but haven't been able to use it since I moved my computer to a 64 bit platform. Thought long and hard about it but couldn't pass up the price for the Pro Version. And I agree with the learning curve but I think am up for the challenge :cheese:

  • Sci Fi FunkSci Fi Funk Posts: 1,046
    edited December 1969

    JK0011 said:
    And I agree with the learning curve but I think am up for the challenge :cheese:

    I have every faith in you. Necessity is a wonderful motivator!

  • 3dOutlaw3dOutlaw Posts: 2,421
    edited December 1969

    JK0011 said:
    JK0011 said:
    Well I broke down and bought it. :-) Looking forward to learning the program.

    If you are moving up from DAZ it's a smart move. A steep learning curve, but you won't regret it. I've never looked back. It took a while to adjust though.

    Been using Daz for awhile and I love it I don't see giving up on it. I tried Carrara 8 standard a bit ago and liked it's animation capabilities, but haven't been able to use it since I moved my computer to a 64 bit platform. Thought long and hard about it but couldn't pass up the price for the Pro Version. And I agree with the learning curve but I think am up for the challenge :cheese:

    DS is still "better' (imo) for more realistic renders, as 3delight outperforms the Carrara render engine for that type of thing. Also, it has the collision modifier, which is a brilliant feature!

    ...but in pretty much everything else, Carrara wins.

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited December 1969

    3doutlaw said:

    DS is still "better' (imo) for more realistic renders, as 3delight outperforms the Carrara render engine for that type of thing. Also, it has the collision modifier, which is a brilliant feature!

    ...but in pretty much everything else, Carrara wins.

    IMHO, it isn't the render engine that makes the image realistic, but a combination of the render engine, the lighting, and the shaders and the skill and experience of the artist with those factors that makes it a realistic render.
  • 3dOutlaw3dOutlaw Posts: 2,421
    edited December 1969

    That is definitely true. One really needs to compare the renders of the "experts" of the software. (To clarify my statement above, I meant people realism, since C is great in environmental and object realism) In any case it's pointless since its all opinion.

    ...but since your here, the collision modifier has my vote for most desired feature in Carrara 9! Animation without the worry of any poke-through...would be awesome! :)

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 18,002
    edited December 1969

    3doutlaw said:
    JK0011 said:
    JK0011 said:
    Well I broke down and bought it. :-) Looking forward to learning the program.

    If you are moving up from DAZ it's a smart move. A steep learning curve, but you won't regret it. I've never looked back. It took a while to adjust though.

    Been using Daz for awhile and I love it I don't see giving up on it. I tried Carrara 8 standard a bit ago and liked it's animation capabilities, but haven't been able to use it since I moved my computer to a 64 bit platform. Thought long and hard about it but couldn't pass up the price for the Pro Version. And I agree with the learning curve but I think am up for the challenge :cheese:

    DS is still "better' (imo) for more realistic renders, as 3delight outperforms the Carrara render engine for that type of thing. Also, it has the collision modifier, which is a brilliant feature!

    ...but in pretty much everything else, Carrara wins. Red Flag!!!
    What? Really? I'll have to try DS again. Well, I use it, but not for rendering. I am a huge fan of Carrara's render engine. You can set it to use caustics if you really want to bring out the reflections and transparency/refraction properties, GI with multitudes of Indirect Lighting settings...
    Sorry... I get crazy defensive about Carrara's rendering abilities. :)

    Well I've been really starting to get into bringing DS into my workflow - but, alas, so far mostly in thought, education, and inspiration. I love the CCT and all of the new export features. So I have another bit of video coming today, that shows a little about my workflow in that endeavor - but DAZ does such a great job of explaining what to do once you get into DS, that I've only taped the Carrara side so far - and only the beginning process - just to help 'get your feet wet' modeling in the Assembly room. So I am not at all 'against' Daz Studio - I actually kind of like it.
    I haven't tried GoFigure's new tools for the time line yet. It looks like they might actually give a more 'Carrara' feel to animation in DS. But perhaps it's that I'm so used to key frame animation in Carrara, I find DS and Poser to be pretty horrible for those endeavors. Luckily, Fenric made that tool for exporting BVH and/or PZ2's from Carrara! NLA are beautiful for keeping everything comfy and cozy within Carrara. But when you want to share your animations (or even just poses) with the rest of the world, Fenric's exporter is perfect - and quite robust, with many options.

    JK0011,
    Rockin' it with Carrara now, eh? Bravo!!!
    Come on in, kick yer shoes off and stay a while. Carrara is incredibly friendly as you learn. You'll love the ride! :)

    There's a lot to pick up on as far as the new expansive abilities you've just acquired. For starters, you can just Poser or Daz Studio your way in. Work in Carrara as you did in either of those. Before long, you'll see how much more vast the world is around you now.
    The "Carrara Help" pdf (that comes with the software, also available here) is an amazing way to learn about what you can do in Carrara. Sci Fi Funk, the guy you've just been chatting with, has a whole slew of really fun tutorial videos that are geared toward specific endeavors - he builds massive scenes with all manner of things going on - and I also suggest watching his Movie Episodes!
    Cripeman’s Carrara Video Tutorials Index is an ongoing project for me. No.. I'm not the wonderful Cripeman! lol Indexing his super-awesome videos into an index is one project that started my whole ►►► Carrara Information Manual ◄◄◄ project, because I really enjoy watching his videos. I eventually want to intertwine those links, along with others, into a manual of sorts - where you have supporting text and images with links as relevancy permits. In the grand scheme of 3D Animation and rendering, I am still a newbie. I have a lot to earn- and a passion to learn it - but only as I need it - or my head will explode - there's simply too much to know.
    Features are one thing. Carrara is vast in that priority. Especially once you start collecting all of the shader presets and plugins available... it is such a rich environment to take in. But the idea of animation. The concepts around art. The whole thing... is huge. No single source can cover it all, but my Manual thread is going to attempt to open the pathways into that expansiveness through suggestion. But that's a few months away - before I get full access to time for doing that again! That's why it get's left in temporary disarray - I have to work most of the year... 'till we get the Hard freeze!

    Oh my... have I been babbling again?

    That is definitely true. One really needs to compare the renders of the "experts" of the software. (To clarify my statement above, I meant people realism, since C is great in environmental and object realism) In any case it's pointless since its all opinion.

    ...but since your here, the collision modifier has my vote for most desired feature in Carrara 9! Animation without the worry of any poke-through...would be awesome! :) Yeah that. I want that too ;)

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 18,002
    edited December 1969

    JK0011 said:
    Well I broke down and bought it. :-) Looking forward to learning the program.
    So... you DID get the Pro version?
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 18,002
    edited December 1969

    Argh! Having trouble posting. Anyways...
    This thread has a link in the top post to a demo I've done on a simple scene, building an M5 character using 8.5 Pro and only stuff that comes with it.

    It comes with a lot of stuff! So I could have done the subject on anything! But I wanted to show off some of the new 8.5 Pro bliss!

  • JennKJennK Posts: 834
    edited December 1969

    JK0011 said:
    And I agree with the learning curve but I think am up for the challenge :cheese:

    I have every faith in you. Necessity is a wonderful motivator!

    Thanks for the vote of confidence :) and be prepared for a lot of newbie questions in the near future.

  • JennKJennK Posts: 834
    edited December 1969

    JK0011 said:
    Well I broke down and bought it. :-) Looking forward to learning the program.
    So... you DID get the Pro version?

    Yep couldn't pass up the price. And thanks for the links to the awesome tutorials those are gonna come in handy. I am really looking forward to this ride :cheese:

  • Jay_NOLAJay_NOLA Posts: 1,145
    edited December 1969

    I didn't see this mentioned about rendering people but one common problem for a beginner to Carrra is to learn to adjust the shaders on human characters and not use just them as they are.

    They don't look right if you don't, and will have a slight blue coloring to them

    One Carrara website goes into great detail about this and I've seen some tutorials on working with skin shaders covering tricks and things to make your renders look realistic.

    A few of the Carrara shaders sold in the DAZ store come with PDFs that give numerous tips. (A lot of people buy the shaders I've noticed and forget they come with a PDF or have trouble finding the PDF. In the latter case the PDF usually got installed into the DAZ Studio Read Me's instead of the Carrara ones.

  • ghaylin_047405afe7ghaylin_047405afe7 Posts: 37
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for the tutorial list. I am somewhat disheartened by the cost of moving to 8.5. As many others have said, I just paid for the 8.1 Pro only a few months ago, and most of the content I have read comes with the upgrade are things I got with the 8.1 Pro purchase. Had I known they were going to throw in V5 & M5 I would have not paid for the Pro bundles on them. But I have those now too, so there seems to be now real perk for spending more money.
    I am new and really have a desire to become a content contributor, having no knowledge at all and no idea where to find information on making characters and clothes I imagine this will be a truly long process for me. I have Bryce 7.1 Pro, Hexagon 2.5, Daz 4.6 Pro, Poser 2014 and a few obscure programs that help. Don't know how to use any of them yet, but I have hopes of learning quickly. If anyone would like to help with info on where to find tutorials or videos that give step by step creation I would really appreciate it.
    I don't know if I can do the upgrade to 8.5, as I have already dumped quite a bit of bucks into all the newest figure content from Genesis to Girl 6, I am only missing Freak at this point everything else is the latest 5 or 6. I am hoping that labor day will bring some kind of sale to bring it down just a bit more. As a PC member it is at 85.50 for me right now, but after dumping over a thousand in the last few monthes that stings a bit on the pocket, as they are damn near empty now.
    Anyway just my two cents, and really kinda just begging for help from anyone willing to give it. ;) Finger crossed for labor day! Have a great one fellow conspirators in art.

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 11,280
    edited December 1969

    Disisme said:
    Thanks for the tutorial list. I am somewhat disheartened by the cost of moving to 8.5. As many others have said, I just paid for the 8.1 Pro only a few months ago, and most of the content I have read comes with the upgrade are things I got with the 8.1 Pro purchase. Had I known they were going to throw in V5 & M5 I would have not paid for the Pro bundles on them. But I have those now too, so there seems to be now real perk for spending more money.
    I am new and really have a desire to become a content contributor, having no knowledge at all and no idea where to find information on making characters and clothes I imagine this will be a truly long process for me. I have Bryce 7.1 Pro, Hexagon 2.5, Daz 4.6 Pro, Poser 2014 and a few obscure programs that help. Don't know how to use any of them yet, but I have hopes of learning quickly. If anyone would like to help with info on where to find tutorials or videos that give step by step creation I would really appreciate it.
    I don't know if I can do the upgrade to 8.5, as I have already dumped quite a bit of bucks into all the newest figure content from Genesis to Girl 6, I am only missing Freak at this point everything else is the latest 5 or 6. I am hoping that labor day will bring some kind of sale to bring it down just a bit more. As a PC member it is at 85.50 for me right now, but after dumping over a thousand in the last few monthes that stings a bit on the pocket, as they are damn near empty now.
    Anyway just my two cents, and really kinda just begging for help from anyone willing to give it. ;) Finger crossed for labor day! Have a great one fellow conspirators in art.

    Most of us had to learn by trial and error figuring out how to save things. There are some really nice tutorials out there now. Have you looked at DAZ's YouTube channel yet?

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