Official Release of Carrara 8.5 **Update - 8.5.1.19**

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  • ghaylin_047405afe7ghaylin_047405afe7 Posts: 37
    edited December 1969

    Had no idea there was such a thing. A link would probably be very helpful.

    I have been trying to learn by trial and error, unfortunately error seems to be winning for the moment. No matter what I try to save, it will not open in Daz once saved. I get an error message - something about not being able to read the data or some such thing. Sad to say I kinda put all my eggs in one basket so to speak, in the hopes of being able to make some extra money. My usual work has been kind of spotty as late and things were getting financially crappy. As I have worked with CAD programs for last 10 years, I assumed these would be about the same ..... not so much. There is a vast difference between these and engineering.

    Have been experimenting since I purchased them, and can do the normal pull up an actor and clothe them, it is the creation of new things, and saving them that keeps giving me total frustration. Don't know which program creates, which one adds morphs .... etc. Apparently there is a different one for each area and I have just had a hard time adjusting to which is which. Anyway enough boo hooing, no one likes a whiner huh? LOL. ;)

    Again I know that many of those who make and sell items here had to work hard to get where they are, and hard work and persistence is not a problem for me. But usually there are technical guides that start you on the way of understanding the process. Though the Document Center is packed with things, there are numerous links from one to the other, and knowing which is the beginning, middle and end is not really clear. I spent 3 full days trying to track through the guides for Daz and ended up with 15 pages open at one time, and got lost as to the order of which came first. Frustration just seems to be my middle name these days, I guess that is why I am asking for help.

    If you can however give me some links I would still appreciate that! When one has nothing to start with any morsel will help! ;) I do appreciate the response as well, was not sure if anyone would respond at all. So Thanks!

  • 3dOutlaw3dOutlaw Posts: 2,451
    edited August 2013

    I'm in! So what made the final decision for me?

    Was it the new Carrara features? ...nope

    Was it the bug fixes? ...nope

    Was it the additional content? ...nope

    Was it to support Daz? ...nope

    Was it cause iClone/3dXchange was too expensive? ...nope

    Was it cause I have so much money, I've got nothing better to do with it? ...nope

    What made the final decision was (drumroll) the #$^&@%#@*&#$ beta version 8.5.204 crashing every 2nd render!!!!! Argh! This better work or I'm gonna get all Daz Spooky on someone!! ;-)

    Post edited by 3dOutlaw on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 18,108
    edited December 1969

    DAZ 3D YouTube Channel
    Fun stuff.
    Take your tie when there, though. There's a lot of promotional videos and then there's a bunch of helpful 'how-tos' as well. When you go to the DAZ 3D YouTube channel, do it at a time when you have time to peruse and sift through... slow down and watch many, many videos.

    As for creating clothing, hair, or anything else for the DAZ 3D line of figures, I have been asking Everybody to check out DAZ 3D's "Publishing" Instructions as they explain, word-for-word how the process is done. They even give you a texture map to help with setting up your UV Mapping - which DAZ takes very seriously.
    If you want to sell through DAZ, you have to do it right! ;)
    So learning from them is excellent. It gives you details on what 'they're' looking for, and require - which gives direction towards excellence!

    For learning Carrara, Phil Wilkes is an excellent Instructor in this wonderful series of professional tutorials
    I don't yet have the Basic one. But I'm going to get it, simply because I like watching what I now refer to as "Phil Wilkes TV"
    It's one of my favorite stations! Phil's Advanced Techniques instruction is very well laid out for modeling within Carrara. He goes right into UV Mapping and unfolding - many different ways to work with the UV Map editor to finally get the results you need. Very important stuff!
    Then he goes into some nice projects building models. His working files that come with this immense training program vastly outweighs the price all by themselves! Yet I seldom see people using them in their browsers for rendering... funny.
    He teaches how to create and replicate beautifully realistic clumps of grass for outdoor meadows. That alone is quite valuable. But he first builds a cottage. But before that he teaches you how to build the ground that the cottage will sit on including a stream! Fully texture the whole thing! Build the cottage and detail it to look real. Then detail its surroundings. Create a custom tree and make your own custom leaves! Not much for the country? Well Phil takes you really deep into many ways to create urban settings as well. I have learned so much about new shader techniques I wouldn't be able to list them all any more. Modeling techniques that I've learned are through the roof! Displacement mapping, UV mapping, Creating Dynamic cloth, Dynamic Hair, Body suit texturing, 3D Painting, Conforming Clothing!!!
    Walk cycle design, HDRI creation, Surrounding spherical background mapping, shadow catcher use, oh my... there's still much more...
    And this is all just the Advanced Techniques package - and all of those topics include all of the steps in the working files - including the final products - which are amazingly well made!

    I keep begging Phil Wilkes to make more TV for me. :)

    So now I need to buy the Basic Set, as I know it, too, will teach this old dog some new tricks - and it'll be done in that wonderful style that only Phil Wilkes can give. He's an amazing instructor because he's done this stuff so much that he's now a natural talent at it all. Very entertaining.

    Oh... I've gone on so long already, but I have to say this too:
    Where another part needs to be made in some of his models, he could easily just bypass it telling you to do it the same as you've done before. Instead, he teaches you how to do it another way! Yikes it's cool!

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 18,108
    edited August 2013

    3doutlaw said:
    I'm in! So what made the final decision for me?

    Was it the new Carrara features? ...nope

    Was it the bug fixes? ...nope

    Was it the additional content? ...nope

    Was it to support Daz? ...nope

    Was it cause iClone/3dXchange was too expensive? ...nope

    Was it cause I have so much money, I've got nothing better to do with it? ...nope

    What made the final decision was (drumroll) the #$^&@%#@*&#$ beta version 8.5.204 crashing every 2nd render!!!!! Argh! This better work or I'm gonna get all Daz Spooky on someone!! ;-)

    For me it's like this:
    I'm in! So what made the final decision for me?

    Was it the new Carrara features? Yes!

    Was it the bug fixes? Yes!

    Was it the additional content? Not any more. I enjoy buying content as often as possible. I really do! ;)

    Was it to support Daz? Hell Ya! "Digital Art Zone in Three Dimensions" (DAZ 3D) is the world in which I live. All such places, those whom feed from the larger entity must offer tithes and offerings in order for the large entity to continue to provide that which we need the mostest!

    Was it cause iClone/3dXchange was too expensive?
    ...nope. But it is. I like making my own animations anyways. But I still buy them in as well.

    Was it cause I have so much money, I've got nothing better to do with it? No way! What? What a cool thought. Let me loose myself in this imaginary word for a spell... no really... I'll be back! ;)

    Oh.. before I go:
    Comprehensive List of Video Tutorials on Carrara - by FractalDemensia
    The purpose of this thread is to collect, consolidate, and make available a comprehensive list of all video tutorials available on Carrara.
    directly copied from:
    ►►► Carrara Information Manual ◄◄◄
    Which is stickied in This Forum

    Post edited by Dartanbeck on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 18,108
    edited August 2013

    Also, have you seen my new video of a Carrara 8.5 Pro experience?
    Meet the new Carrara 8.5 Pro with M5 Dragon Lord!
    EDIT: Now includes the second, hour long video link

    Also, Here's an old one that I show to everyone
    It's a compilation of test renders that I threw together to test out Sony Home Movie HD

    Post edited by Dartanbeck on
  • ghaylin_047405afe7ghaylin_047405afe7 Posts: 37
    edited December 1969

    Dartanbeck ..... Wow, Thank you so much. When I become good at this and start rolling out those incredible files for sale, and believe me I don't give up so eventually I will, you will be on my list for freebies!

    I have set a link in my favorites for The Daz 3D Publishing link. Will start on that ASAP
    Looked at the Phil Wilkes videos and they look amazing, but again there is that pesky currency thing that is going to put that on hold for a bit, for some reason they insist I pay my mortgage. LOL. If the Carrara 8.5 is a good investment I will have to go with getting it first and find a way to get the video training as soon as I can. Reading through the posts there are a lot of statements that have me wondering if my money is well spent on that. Plus if it overwrites my current Carrara 8.1 Pro, and has no new serial number that would leave me dead in the water on that program. :0. That would really suck.

    Still have my fingers crossed and hopes high that the price on 8.5 will come down for labor day. I still believe Daz cares about those who invest their hard earned money in products. Though the V5 & M5 bundles with it are a great bonus for those who do not have them yet, for those of us who do, it is just duplicate files.

    I have downloaded all the list you linked by Fractal Demensia, and I will start pilfering through those ASAP. Also created a link to the Daz You Tube Channel. Are these training type videos or just overviews of product information?

    Do you have links for the other programs as well??? Not trying to sound ungrateful BELIEVE ME I am NOT!!!

    And, I hate to sound needy, though lets admit it with my skill level at this point "needy" is a very light term, ANY links to tutorials or instructional videos for the programs I listed ( recap - Bryce 7.1 Pro, Carrara 8.1 Pro, Hexagon 2.5, Daz Studio 4.6 Pro, Poser 2014) will be deeply appreciated on this end.

    Just think of me as a very hungry pacman that has been in storage for many years, and has escaped his cryogenic prison and is starving ....... Will eat up any and all info that is thrown my way ;)

    Again, thank-you, thank-you, and thank-you for the information given so far. I am sure it will help me learn

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 18,108
    edited December 1969

    Disisme said:
    Dartanbeck ..... Wow, Thank you so much. When I become good at this and start rolling out those incredible files for sale, and believe me I don't give up so eventually I will, you will be on my list for freebies!
    Oh no...I insist... I truly enjoy purchasing content. At the low prices things sell for at DAZ, compared to how much joy we get out of building scenes with the stuff... I consider the price to be a nice 'tip' to the gracious artist who sold me the license to use it. I want to support my fellow artists. Don't get me wrong... I'm not made of cash or anything. Struggling like anyone else.
    But I like to share freely with my fellow Carraraists! :)

    Disisme said:
    Reading through the posts there are a lot of statements that have me wondering if my money is well spent on that. Plus if it overwrites my current Carrara 8.1 Pro, and has no new serial number that would leave me dead in the water on that program. :0. That would really suck.It doesn't overwrite anything - unless you tell it to. My workstation has 8.1 Pro, 8.5 beta, and 8.5 Pro official release all installed and working together. You actually need to uninstall them yourself (or have DIM do it, if DIM installed it in the first place) or 'ask' it to install over an existing copy in order for it to use that folder - otherwise it makes a new folder. I'm on PC though. Also, Carrara serial number listing in user accounts have always started with "Carrara" and the new one is called "Serialnumber for Carrara 8.5 Pro", so many people are simply not 'seeing' it - it's there.

    Disisme said:
    Do you have links for the other programs as well???

    ►►► Carrara Information Manual ◄◄◄ is my endeavor to help the world ease into using Carrara and/or be a great resource (eventually) for users of any and all experience levels to find areas of interest to go to. Within that, I have articles that I write myself and links to other threads and indexes of thread links to help people find info no matter what. I have about two to three months per year to really work hard on it, and this coming winter will begin my second year - and with the ground work I've started already, I'm hoping that I can really put some polish to it this winter!
    Forum Help Links is a post where I work towards linking subjects of study that are going on, or have gone on in the forum in an indexed fashion to make the subjects easier to find. Once in a while, when I find time, I take time when I should be sleeping and comb through the forum adding to this post index. That way, these threads can answer the same questions from many artists. If the thread doesn't quite answer your query, posting to it will A: Bring the thread back to the front page, and B: e-mail folks that are watching the thread. So it works well as my idea of a "Living" guide.
    At the bottom of that post is:
    Free Software that Makes Life Easier
    Head Wax started this incredibly useful thread, leading to all sorts of free resources with many others contributing their findings - making this one incredible shopping mall of freebie software. Thanks Head Wax! ;)
    which is an amazing resource!
    * Project Dogwaffle and here are Dogwaffle Video Tutorials - Playlists Very entertaining and informative!
    is another pet project of mine, as I endeavor to prove that PD Pro: Howler is the ultimate post work app for Carrara!

    When you get some time, have a stroll through my manual thread. Try out the links and my link system for getting around from whatever page you might end up on. Those need to be updated again, too. Alas... the never ending work of keeping a living manual! lol

    Again, thank-you, thank-you, and thank-you for the information given so far. I am sure it will help me learn That is payment to me. My goal in life is to place Carrara Pro firmly in a nice seat, considered amongst the top-class CG software solutions in the world - a seat which I feel, because of the fact that no other single application can perform everything that it can, is well deserved already. So the more happy users we get using this amazing machine, the more art will get generated for the world to see. And that's a good thing - always.

    One last thing for now, Join our own Dimension Theory in his tutorial on "Sculpting with Forces"!!! Most Fun!

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  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,700
    edited August 2013

    Jay_NOLA said:
    DAZ_Spooky,

    1.) Where are the newer Genesis Hair Caps located in the downloadable files? I'm not seeing them for manual download.

    2.) The Digital Painters Shaders still don't show up as being part of Carrara 8.5 you said that had been added in a previous post.

    Jay_NOLA said:
    Thanks DAZ_Spooky,

    The Digital Painters Shaders still aren't showing up as part of 8.5.

    Therese are showing up now as part of the 8.5 Pro Bundle now:

    Carrara Hair Caps
    DigitalPainters 3DPaint Brushes Sampler
    Howies Snow Scene

    Great to see that the missing stuff in 8.5 is being fixed and for clarifying what 8.5 has in it.

    I hope DAZ makes the older V4 & M4 shaders for Carrara available for sale so newer Crarrara user who want them can purchase them. (They were only in the older build only.)

    I'm not sure if the missing downloads for the older versions of Mimic Pro for is going to get fixed.

    I have to update the plugin info I wrote in the Carrara information manual thread to mention the After effects plugin is not part of 8.5 and doesn't work with newer version of After Effects which i why it wasn't included.


    Howie's snow scene wasn't supposed to. It is a beautiful scene but it plays havoc with 32 bit versions of Carrara. The hair caps also shouldn't be there as they were replaced by a newer version designed specifically for Genesis, and should be in your Content directory and Smart Content. You are much better off using the new hair caps as they will morph with your character.

    Quoting, because they are still not in my Product Library ...

    And another thing: How do I get my Carrara 8.1 stuff?
    My "Carrara 8 Upgrade" doesn't give me 8.1 or the 8.1 content - it is just leading to the 8.5 beta stuff ... Could somebody correct this???

    Post edited by Kerya on
  • MarchioniMarchioni Posts: 2
    edited December 1969

    Finally the price dropped from 171,- to 85,50 but i'm still not convinced about the 8.5 Upgrade and i'm really NOT interested in the V5 and M5 Pro Bundles.I think i will wait til Carrara 9 or stick to the Tools i already use.

  • WandWWandW Posts: 2,376
    edited August 2013

    WandW said:
    They seemed to be bogged down in support, as I have a request in since Monday on a non-Carrara issue and have heard nothing..
    Software releases tend to do that, unfortunately.

    Why would that impact Sales Support?

    It turns out it cost DAZ a sale, as I literally had to put $1600 into a hole in the ground the other day, as my well pump had to be replaced. I'll be keeping M5 Pro Bundle and sitting this upgrade out, I'm afraid...

    Post edited by WandW on
  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited December 1969

    Yeah, my ticket is also ignored, unfortunately.

  • PjotterPjotter Posts: 267
    edited December 1969

    Same here. So thanks DAZ.

    I am working on a project. I cannot buy the upgrade because it still says $ 285.- without PC. Send ticket a few days ago without response. It looks like Support desk is not putting any extra effort in solving the DAZ problem.

    I cannot switch back because I have a major shader problem with my project in 8.1 and no idea how to solve this. The weekend, including September 1, is coming. This means my beta 8.5 will stop working and I can sit with my arms crossed until someone wakes up at Support (?) Desk. So thanks!

    I think the least DAZ could do, is extend the 8.5 BETA with a new serial code to solve the DAZ mess and the not very fast helpdesk.

  • bighbigh Posts: 8,147
    edited December 1969

    WandW said:
    WandW said:
    They seemed to be bogged down in support, as I have a request in since Monday on a non-Carrara issue and have heard nothing..
    Software releases tend to do that, unfortunately.

    Why would that impact Sales Support?

    It turns out it cost DAZ a sale, as I literally had to put $1600 into a hole in the ground the other day, as my well pump had to be replaced. I'll be keeping M5 Pro Bundle and sitting this upgrade out, I'm afraid...

    how deep is your well ?
    I have one too .

  • ChatjdChatjd Posts: 145
    edited December 1969

    It took the support team two or so days to get to my ticket--which for the amount of volume this site does in orders, really isn't that bad from my perspective. I spend a lot of money here and though I lurk, I rarely if ever post. I had some concerns about the pricing of Carrara 8.5 and opened a ticket, didn't even ask for anything, just left a general feedback ticket with my concerns politely expressed. I was pleasantly surprised by the support team's actually quick response, even though I put it in as a general feedback ticket and not a sales/support ticket.

    Patience and politeness are good qualities when dealing with others I have found as they are much more likely to be willing to go the extra mile for you in return. I was pleased with the response I got and I no longer have concerns about continuing to spend money and buy the Pro bundles. From their response, DAZ does care about its current and loyal customers and is trying extremely hard to make sure loyal customers aren't taken for granted and don't feel taken advantage of in how they are pricing products.

    A shout-out to Britney on the DAZ help-desk team. THANK YOU! I didn't expect the response I got, but I do so greatly appreciate it.

  • jerhamjerham Posts: 146
    edited August 2013

    Kattey said:
    Yeah, my ticket is also ignored, unfortunately.

    Mine too, another ticket (unrelated/different subject) from yesterday was picked up the sameday (well at least a message they will look in to it).

    @ DAZ_Spooky, Can you make any sort of indication, when these tickets will be picked up (if you did not get the discount for owning Carrara 8. personally i would not mind a refund of the difference in store credit...there are several items i want to buy)

    Post edited by jerham on
  • PjotterPjotter Posts: 267
    edited December 1969

    Good idea. Gonna create a few tickets. Maybe one of them is picked up before the weekend, before 8.5 BETA expires.

  • WandWWandW Posts: 2,376
    edited December 1969

    bigh said:
    WandW said:
    WandW said:
    They seemed to be bogged down in support, as I have a request in since Monday on a non-Carrara issue and have heard nothing..
    Software releases tend to do that, unfortunately.

    Why would that impact Sales Support?

    It turns out it cost DAZ a sale, as I literally had to put $1600 into a hole in the ground the other day, as my well pump had to be replaced. I'll be keeping M5 Pro Bundle and sitting this upgrade out, I'm afraid...

    how deep is your well ?
    I have one too .

    Pump was at 200 feet. It was put in in 1987, so the rigid pvc well pipe was brittle and had to be replaced; he cut it into sections as he pulled it upmerely by hitting it with a utility knife blade and it snapped off. It was replaced with flexible pipe. Also, the wiring insulation was worn through in spots, so the wire had to be replaced too...

  • PjotterPjotter Posts: 267
    edited December 1969

    Pjotter said:
    Good idea. Gonna create a few tickets. Maybe one of them is picked up before the weekend, before 8.5 BETA expires.

    This was the trick. Within the hour it was solved. Probably not my ticket from Wednesday.

  • linvanchenelinvanchene Posts: 1,303
    edited November 2013

    edited and removed by user

    Post edited by linvanchene on
  • bighbigh Posts: 8,147
    edited December 1969

    WandW said:
    bigh said:
    WandW said:
    WandW said:
    They seemed to be bogged down in support, as I have a request in since Monday on a non-Carrara issue and have heard nothing..
    Software releases tend to do that, unfortunately.

    Why would that impact Sales Support?

    It turns out it cost DAZ a sale, as I literally had to put $1600 into a hole in the ground the other day, as my well pump had to be replaced. I'll be keeping M5 Pro Bundle and sitting this upgrade out, I'm afraid...

    how deep is your well ?
    I have one too .

    Pump was at 200 feet. It was put in in 1987, so the rigid pvc well pipe was brittle and had to be replaced; he cut it into sections as he pulled it upmerely by hitting it with a utility knife blade and it snapped off. It was replaced with flexible pipe. Also, the wiring insulation was worn through in spots, so the wire had to be replaced too...

    you got a good deal !

  • stem_athomestem_athome Posts: 411
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_jared said:
    Carrara 8.5 Pro is priced at $285.00 for a limited time. Carrara 8.5 Standard is priced at $149.95.

    Current owners of Carrara will receive a 50% discount on either product for the first two weeks.

    I see from that, that there is not actually an upgrade path.

    Putting aside the PC membership discount. If I do not purchase C8.5 within the 14 days time limit, after that, even though I have a license for C8, I would then need to pay the full asking price for C8.5 as if it was a new product rather than an upgrade from previous version.

    That also brings up the question as to when C9 is release, will there be a similar restriction, so that only those with a license for C8.5 will get a reduction(for a limited time) with no upgrade path from C8?

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_jared said:
    Carrara 8.5 Pro is priced at $285.00 for a limited time. Carrara 8.5 Standard is priced at $149.95.

    Current owners of Carrara will receive a 50% discount on either product for the first two weeks.

    I see from that, that there is not actually an upgrade path.

    Putting aside the PC membership discount. If I do not purchase C8.5 within the 14 days time limit, after that, even though I have a license for C8, I would then need to pay the full asking price for C8.5 as if it was a new product rather than an upgrade from previous version.

    That also brings up the question as to when C9 is release, will there be a similar restriction, so that only those with a license for C8.5 will get a reduction(for a limited time) with no upgrade path from C8?
    The current upgrade path to Carrara 8.5 is from any version of Carrara. That does not mean that will be the only price structure, though I wouldn't expect it to get cheaper than it currently is.

  • stem_athomestem_athome Posts: 411
    edited December 1969

    The current upgrade path to Carrara 8.5 is from any version of Carrara. That does not mean that will be the only price structure, though I wouldn't expect it to get cheaper than it currently is.

    Apparently that is not what your newsletter stated:-

    The newsletter says that Carrara 8 Pro must be in our account for the 50% off to apply.

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited December 1969

    The current upgrade path to Carrara 8.5 is from any version of Carrara. That does not mean that will be the only price structure, though I wouldn't expect it to get cheaper than it currently is.

    Apparently that is not what your newsletter stated:-

    The newsletter says that Carrara 8 Pro must be in our account for the 50% off to apply.

    I can't speak to that, however:

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  • stem_athomestem_athome Posts: 411
    edited August 2013

    I can't speak to that, however:

    I have just been going through the web site, and I cannot find the graphics you posted, or any information concerning an upgrade path from previous versions.

    Where is that graphics you posted(showing the 50% off) shown on the web-site? (I also looked for a fantasy section, just in case.)

    Post edited by stem_athome on
  • JonstarkJonstark Posts: 2,566
    edited December 1969

    I can't speak to that, however:

    I have just been going through the web site, and I cannot find the graphics you posted, or any information concerning an upgrade path from previous versions.

    Where is that graphics you posted(showing the 50% off) shown on the web-site? (I also looked for a fantasy section, just in case.)

    Steve, hover over the Shop tab, above, then select Hot Promotions, scroll down and you'll find it (at least that's how I found it)

  • stem_athomestem_athome Posts: 411
    edited August 2013

    Jonstark said:
    Steve, hover over the Shop tab, above, then select Hot Promotions, scroll down and you'll find it (at least that's how I found it)

    Ah, there it is, thank you. (it is a bit buried though is it not?).

    I wonder how many other have missed that?

    I was following the "Products", which is where I would of thought any upgrade offers etc would have been shown.

    Post edited by stem_athome on
  • JonstarkJonstark Posts: 2,566
    edited December 1969

    Jonstark said:
    Steve, hover over the Shop tab, above, then select Hot Promotions, scroll down and you'll find it (at least that's how I found it)

    Ah, there it is, thank you. (it is a bit buried though is it not?).

    I wonder how many other have missed that?

    I was following the "Products", which is where I would of thought any upgrade offers etc would have been shown.

    I'm a little surprised at how 8.5 was front page news for like 1 day, and then got moved down under other stuff/buried so quickly... Outside of the Carrara forum, and on the regular shopping pages, it seems a bit 'blink and you missed it'

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 11,472
    edited December 1969

    Its a sticky thread so its been on the front page this whole time. There are new posts to the thread ever day so not sure what your referring to.

  • JonstarkJonstark Posts: 2,566
    edited December 1969

    Sorry Frank, my wording was awkward and unclear, my fault you misunderstood.

    I was saying that outside of the Carrara forum itself (where it's fairly prominent, as one would expect) there's not a ton of promo in the Marketplace, it seems to have 'slipped down the page' and become buried (yesterday's news) fairly quickly.

    I'm glad I started becoming a more frequent user of the forums again, else I might very well have missed it (especially since the upgrade discount is only 2 weeks long).

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