I want V4 Products not V5 or V6. Planned Obsolescence Has To Stop.
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It's also important to remember that for every member in the forums saying they love Genesis...there are 50 others who don't post that hate Genesis and refuse to buy it. It cuts both ways.
I guess the most important thing is that artists are able to find tools that work for them and they're happy with. Genesis supporters are happy. Gen4 supporters are happy too. That's a good thing.
Thanks for supporting Gen 4 in your store.
It's also important to remember that for every member in the forums saying they love Genesis...there are 50 others who don't post that hate Genesis and refuse to buy it. It cuts both ways.
That's not true at all. On an anonymous forum with unsolicited feedback, people don't drop by so much to say "wow, I love this," they drop by when something doesn't work for them.
If people are too lazy to check it out for themselves, ( it's free after all ) pretty pictures won't convince them.
Personally, I find the improvements in the morphs, expressions, more realistic details in the face, elbows, knees, hands and feet, elbow and knee joints, individually movable toes, the topology, an eye surface to make reflections easier, the asymmetrical morphs, not to mention all of the improvements in the head and body morph packages, all make the Genesis 2 female by far the most realistic and most usable figure available. It needs those extra 2000 polys to make a lot of those improvements.
If those kinds of things and a much more realistic figure don't float your boat, don't use it.
I wish it could have worked like Genesis 1, but it is what it is. I plan to use both. I believe we'll be seeing products for Genesis 1 for a long time to come.
Coldrake
WELL NOW, in that case...
I hate male content! The DAZ male line is overrated! Everything I see in the the store is Michael, Hiro, Freak and ESPECIALLY David! The only thing that overshadows the male content are the KIDS! I can't stand it! I can't go through one product search page without SOMETHING for young teens and children! If I see another youth skin, i'll scream! We need more females! I need more clothing that makes my girls look sexy and seductive! I will NOT buy another peice of male or child content ever again!
It just needs to slow down. We don't HAVE to obey Moore's law.
I have a hard time believing V6 had the most successful release.
I took the statement for being what I still believe it is.
A Marketing ploy.
Shape Shift for Genesis2 is outselling the Genesis1 version (not by much, but its in the lead from the separate product sales). So its not a ploy. It's a fact. I was suprised myself but sales figures do not lie. So I honestly do believe the statement from Daz. If a Genesis2 version of a product is selling better than a Genesis1 version, I see no reason why v6 can't sell better than its predecessors.
Ah, but this could be misleading. Just because the item sells better right now for Genesis 2 doesn't mean in time the sales will not average out. For most Genesis 1 users they already have a wealth of morphs available, so they are not as hard pressed to purchase the most recent releases. Genesis 2 however, is in a position where it needs as many morphs as it can get in order to be of any use to people, so it stands to reason they'd purchase these morphs immediately boosting these early sales figures.
I personally love your morphs, you are my personal favorite morph maker so I will most certainly be purchasing the bundle.
Cool thanks man:-D yes time will tell if this trend will continue. Need to release more dual products to see and know for sure. Something genesis1 and 2 doesnt have. It will be the only way to know for sure lol.
Spoiler alert: My statement might have been aimed at:
In combination with the comment by Joequick. And at similar statements in general. Which is why I quoted those posts and not the post by DAZ you're referring to, which I think is even in another thread.
I mean my statement wouldn't make much sense if it was aimed at DAZ, since other shops don't tend to release Victorias. I did exaggerate a little to make it more generally applicable. And for a humorous effect.
But since we're talking about the DAZ statement regarding V6s success. They made it clear that they have data to back it up, so I believe them, that V6 had the most successful release. Whatever that means. Maybe the community grew. Maybe the date of her release was better timed than others (in terms of available disposable income) so had unusually high initial sales. Maybe people in 3D just happen to have more disposable income during this release than they had during others (although I doubt it ^^). Maybe just a lot of ppl. really liked her look (I know I did / do). Thing is, there are a lot of factors at play. But, as I said, i wouldn't be surprised if really just a lot of people liked her.
Indeed, the greatest problem facing 3D artists is the lack of lingerie for Victoria.
WELL NOW, in that case...
I hate male content! The DAZ male line is overrated! Everything I see in the the store is Michael, Hiro, Freak and ESPECIALLY David! The only thing that overshadows the male content are the KIDS! I can't stand it! I can't go through one product search page without SOMETHING for young teens and children! If I see another youth skin, i'll scream! We need more females! I need more clothing that makes my girls look sexy and seductive! I will NOT buy another peice of male or child content ever again!
Now that is just silly lol I just did a male pack, actually. For M4 even.
But the sad fact of the matter is... even with all the posts in this forum of ppl wanting male stuff, Scorpy God did not do that well at all. It wasnt awful, but.... it wasnt amazing either... it didnt even hit my personal goal for sets I do of that caliber (which, to be clear, is a min I have to make to recuperate the time spent) And the female counterpart (Serpent Goddess) did well too, so it wasn't exactly the genre that tanked. My first male set (Godspeed) however, was a rousing success, so I figured, hey, Ill support M4 more often. But after Scorpy God, I'm now not so sure.
It just goes to show that the requests in this forum are, sadly, a vocal minority. Once again, I defer to my previous statement.... if u guys want support for something, u gotta buy it. Vendors go where the $$ is. And if we spend a month or two making a set that flops, we are not likely to spend that kind of time on something similar in the future.
Indeed, the greatest problem facing 3D artists is the lack of lingerie for The DAZ Cow!
Fixed yer spelling error there. It's a common error.
If they think V6 has been such a success, wait 'till they release The Millennium Cow!
It will change the world.
Now, wouldn't that be nice?
I do love the technology advances of the last 50-60 years, but I'd not complain too much if some of the changes came at a bit slower pace. As long as they aren't deliberately blocked for decades as were alternate energy sources.
It just needs to slow down. We don't HAVE to obey Moore's law.
In the interest of fair market information... I didn't buy Scorpion God (or Godspeed, or Serpent Goddess for that matter) not because I don't want guy-stuff (anyone who's paid attention knows I do), but because I use Genesis, and anything as beautifully done as your work does not deserve to be mangled by Autofit. :)
Well, speaking personally. I DO want male content. But I don't need fantasy content, highlanders, or teens or freak. So just because its male doesn't mean I will autobuy it. I would love to be able to.... But I just don't have the money.
I realize the mantra is men's stuff doesn't sell and this is the reason to just do Victoria clothing. And this saddens me... But there is very little I can do, other than what I do already- buy content for men that pleases me and take a pass on the content I don't need/doesn't appeal.
In the interest of fair market information... I didn't buy Scorpion God (or Godspeed, or Serpent Goddess for that matter) not because I don't want guy-stuff (anyone who's paid attention knows I do), but because I use Genesis, and anything as beautifully done as your work does not deserve to be mangled by Autofit. :)
Yeah, I know there are lots of Geni users, which I also take into consideration regarding my sales data. Its kind of why Ive taken the time to look at the tech again, to try to provide some content for it, and so I can get an even better idea. Tho, my gen 4 sales figures haven't really dwindled since Geni released... so theres still a large denomination using gen 4. To be honest, Scorpy god was the first set Ive had in ages that sold below expectation.
And yeah, totally agree lol Auto fit doesn't work that well, esp on things that require extra rigging. Honestly, the best way is to provide an actual conversion for any set. And when I have time, I may be doing some of my stuff for Genesis (providing the returns are decent)
But I wasn't necessarily talking about the ones who use Genesis, but more about the outcry for male stuff that has been prominent in the forum since before Genesis. Its why there is, and hardly has ever been, any male stuff - coz it just doesnt sell well. There are obvious exceptions (Godspeed, as I said, kicked butt lol) but its the general rule.
Edited to add: Of course, no one should buy things they aren't interested in, or otherwise, dont have a use for. But like I said, don't think it was the genre per se, coz it's counterpart did very strongly. It is what it is, tho.... no one has a perfect outcome every time they release. Flops are bound to happen at some point.
It just needs to slow down.
No. No.
I WANT TO SEE THE SINGULARITY.
Yeah, I know there are lots of Geni users, which I also take into consideration regarding my sales data. Its kind of why Ive taken the time to look at the tech again, to try to provide some content for it, and so I can get an even better idea. Tho, my gen 4 sales figures haven't really dwindled since Geni released... so theres still a large denomination using gen 4. To be honest, Scorpy god was the first set Ive had in ages that sold below expectation.
And yeah, totally agree lol Auto fit doesn't work that well, esp on things that require extra rigging. Honestly, the best way is to provide an actual conversion for any set. And when I have time, I may be doing some of my stuff for Genesis (providing the returns are decent)
But I wasn't necessarily talking about the ones who use Genesis, but more about the outcry for male stuff that has been prominent in the forum since before Genesis. Its why there is, and hardly has ever been, any male stuff - coz it just doesnt sell well. There are obvious exceptions (Godspeed, as I said, kicked butt lol) but its the general rule.
That was the only reason I didn't get Scorpion God [or the female counterpart for that matter]; it has a loincloth and those just get wrecked by Autofit. I can fix creases in other outfits using ZBrush, but separate rigging is something I don't want to touch for now. I still get almost all the stuff for M4 I see as long as it isn't fetish wear or "gangsta" clothes.
I love Egyptian-themed stuff, and other mythological/historical items too, so I'm really glad to see you're working on Genesis!
Yeah, I know there are lots of Geni users, which I also take into consideration regarding my sales data. Its kind of why Ive taken the time to look at the tech again, to try to provide some content for it, and so I can get an even better idea. Tho, my gen 4 sales figures haven't really dwindled since Geni released... so theres still a large denomination using gen 4. To be honest, Scorpy god was the first set Ive had in ages that sold below expectation.
And yeah, totally agree lol Auto fit doesn't work that well, esp on things that require extra rigging. Honestly, the best way is to provide an actual conversion for any set. And when I have time, I may be doing some of my stuff for Genesis (providing the returns are decent)
But I wasn't necessarily talking about the ones who use Genesis, but more about the outcry for male stuff that has been prominent in the forum since before Genesis. Its why there is, and hardly has ever been, any male stuff - coz it just doesnt sell well. There are obvious exceptions (Godspeed, as I said, kicked butt lol) but its the general rule.
That was the only reason I didn't get Scorpion God [or the female counterpart for that matter]; it has a loincloth and those just get wrecked by Autofit. I can fix creases in other outfits using ZBrush, but separate rigging is something I don't want to touch for now. I still get almost all the stuff for M4 I see as long as it isn't fetish wear or "gangsta" clothes.
I love Egyptian-themed stuff, and other mythological/historical items too, so I'm really glad to see you're working on Genesis!
Yeah, I had a feeling with those sets it was gonna be like that, since they both had easy pose loin cloths. Where in cases like Eden's flame, it converted to Genesis pretty well using auto fit alone (actually, thats one of the sets Im thinking of later converting over)
And yeah, I do like the new tech.... I mean, there are some things I really dislike about it and arent really easier, but overall, its pretty cool and much easier. Hopefully, the sets coming soon do well. It isnt Egyptian, or mythological really... its more high fantasy.
That's what you get when you allow the world to be ruled by commercial interests rather than common sense...
No. No.
I WANT TO SEE THE SINGULARITY.
Everything comes to those who can wait...
That's not true at all. On an anonymous forum with unsolicited feedback, people don't drop by so much to say "wow, I love this," they drop by when something doesn't work for them.
Well, actually it's very true.
While you're correct that people may complain when something goes horribly wrong, other times people just withdraw.
I have a few artists locally (I know in the "real" world) that absolutley HATE Genesis. They've never posted here in the forums.
I know a couple people who like Genesis. ONE has posted in the forums, the other has not.
Of course, you see I'm not a supporter and have posted. So, it's a mixed bag.
It's kind of funny that Genesis supporters claim that almost every person not supporting Genesis has posted in the forums, but there is an invisible army many times that size who love this piece of junk and aren't posting.
I'm not singleing you out Agent, but this has been an ongoing theme.
That's not true at all. On an anonymous forum with unsolicited feedback, people don't drop by so much to say "wow, I love this," they drop by when something doesn't work for them.
Well, actually it's very true.
While you're correct that people may complain when something goes horribly wrong, other times people just withdraw.
I have a few artists locally (I know in the "real" world) that absolutley HATE Genesis. They've never posted here in the forums.
I know a couple people who like Genesis. ONE has posted in the forums, the other has not.
Of course, you see I'm not a supporter and have posted. So, it's a mixed bag.
It's kind of funny that Genesis supporters claim that almost every person not supporting Genesis has posted in the forums, but there is an invisible army many times that size who love this piece of junk and aren't posting.
I'm not singleing you out Agent, but this has been an ongoing theme.
Yes, some dissatisfied people don't post, but that doesn't negate the fact that it's generally dissatisfaction which leads people to post, which means that "for every 1 person liking Genesis on the forums there are 99 who like it silently" does not imply the reverse "for every 1 person hating Genesis on the forums there are 99 who hate it silently."
Go back through threads for a bit, see how many conversations are started by complaints as opposed to congratulations. From later responses you'll see the opposite POV exists to balance it out, but the point is those happy people are not the ones starting dialogue. That right there says something. I love G2F, and even I only speak up about it in response to others.
I'm not saying there isn't an overwhelming percentage of people who aren't saying anything, because there certainly is. I'm just noting that the forums are probably not an accurate sampling of purchasers. People having problems tend to flock here, so it's biased towards representing them.
If people are too lazy to check it out for themselves, ( it's free after all ) pretty pictures won't convince them.
Personally, I find the improvements in the morphs, expressions, more realistic details in the face, elbows, knees, hands and feet, elbow and knee joints, individually movable toes, the topology, an eye surface to make reflections easier, the asymmetrical morphs, not to mention all of the improvements in the head and body morph packages, all make the Genesis 2 female by far the most realistic and most usable figure available. It needs those extra 2000 polys to make a lot of those improvements.
If those kinds of things and a much more realistic figure don't float your boat, don't use it.
Coldrake
I don't think laziness has anything to do with it.
I know in my case, since I do this professsionally and right now money is very tight, I have a "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" policy on my workstation. I don't change any software to my machine unless I absolutely HAVE to. I never know when my upgrade will be an upgrade or an "upgrade." Will it break all my plug-ins? Will I be able to revert back to the old version if it turns to be an "upgrade?"
I did try Genesis out on another person's machine.
I didn't see any of the benefits people are talking about, BUT I didn't spend too much time on it.
It felt clunky and hard to work with.
I keep reading forum posts about people not being able to get the clothes to fit, difficulty putting textures on it, difficult to pose, even hard to find in the browser.
Add to that the fact we don't have a stable version of Carrara 8.5 yet.
Frankly, I'm surprised Genesis, V5, or V6 has sold at all!
If I get a 2nd workstation (and a month to breathe), I will load it up again and try to see what you see.
No. No.
I WANT TO SEE THE SINGULARITY.
Everything comes to those who can wait...
Are you offering me immortality? :lol:
I don't think laziness has anything to do with it.
I know in my case, since I do this professsionally and right now money is very tight, I have a "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" policy on my workstation. I don't change any software to my machine unless I absolutely HAVE to. I never know when my upgrade will be an upgrade or an "upgrade." Will it break all my plug-ins? Will I be able to revert back to the old version if it turns to be an "upgrade?"
I did try Genesis out on another person's machine.
I didn't see any of the benefits people are talking about, BUT I didn't spend too much time on it.
It felt clunky and hard to work with.
I keep reading forum posts about people not being able to get the clothes to fit, difficulty putting textures on it, difficult to pose, even hard to find in the browser.
Add to that the fact we don't have a stable version of Carrara 8.5 yet.
Frankly, I'm surprised Genesis, V5, or V6 has sold at all!
If I get a 2nd workstation (and a month to breathe), I will load it up again and try to see what you see.
If I can interject... Genesis actually works very well. In fact, I gave an example earlier in the thread - what would normally take 2+ weeks for me and my beta testers to test for Gen 4, took a week. That is primarily due to the collision tech Genesis clothing has.
If ur seeing posts that claim difficulty fitting things, its most likely due to auto fitting things that once fit Gen 4, or morphs that arent supported, such as putting a tutu on the behemoth - a lot of vendors, myself included, are only supporting viable morphs that suit the outfit. My current has a thong... I therefore did not support kids (for example... nor did I support the males, coz its a very feminine outfit)
But I do get the materials not applying thing. You have to make sure the item is selected in your scene tab before applying, and I will say, its a little cumbersome switching back and forth between those tabs. In poser, u just select the item in the scene and apply.... cant do that in Studio (or maybe u can, but I dont know how)
But all that said, the tech is solid, Ill give it that. Im not a huge fan of studio... I can use it, but I am definitely way more comfy in Poser. But I will say, its pretty cool the way u can use an outfit across all morphs, without having to do make a bazillion fit morphs. Sure, the mors it auto generates are not always perfect, but most of them are.... thats the beauty of it. And doing characters is a breeze as well. Esp nice if u have ZBrush.
Not that Im saying ppl who don't like it should use it coz I said so lol Ppl should of course use what they like and feel comfy with.
Quite a few customers/forum members no longer shop at DAZ or post on the DAZ forums for one reason (decline in Poser content) or another. Most likely, many of those ex-customers/ex-forum members are Poser users.
For every person who posts one way or the other, a dozen more post to contradict that opinion. So ... it's likely that when all is said and done, the forums are representative of those who don't frequent the forums and those who do but don't post.
Only DAZ knows how many older customers still purchase and how many new customers replaced them. I also rather suspect that most older customers are more discriminating about what they purchase, while newer customers are quicker to buy. I don't really want to say that newer customers are less discriminating because that sounds like a slight, which isn't intended. But when you're building your runtime/library from nothing, you do tend to buy far more shiney tings than you do once you have a large amount of content. Just as when a new figure is released, many of us tend to go on buying sprees.
It hasn't just been the lack of Poser content or my budget that affected my spending here, but since I have so much content, what I buy has to be something I need or it has to be exceptional/unique.
If that were the case, then DAZ figures wouldnt be the most popular in the market. My own sets would not sell as high as they do (hey, Ive been heckled at times, and funny enuff, the thing I was heckled on the most is my most popular selling set, even - and other PA's have had similar experiences) And male stuff would sell exceptionally all the time.
Everything comes to those who can wait...
Are you offering me immortality? :lol:
Yes, only $9.95/month. Just remember to pay the monthly rate, otherwise... ;P
Speculating on the ration of happy/unhappy posters to happy/unhappy members of the community at large is just plucking numbers out of the air, not generally a productive activity.
I'm reconciled that the push to new technology is ongoing, I've seen it in other products for decades. And of course, things keep going up in price, even with the much ballyhooed sales, some stuff costs more at the discount than I am willing to pay. I'm a hobbyist on a fixed income. I stopped at DAZ4.O because I do like the Genesis 1 gender bending. It made my investment in Gens 3 and 4 clothes much more useful. I did not go on to 4.5, since I did not understand the new file format of .duf. I avoid buying .duf only items. Seems like new outfits were limited, and more expensive, and dare I say this....for all the new new new technology, models and clothes....
why don't sleeved garments have the shoulder sleeve seam just above the joint like real clothes, and not down over the upper arm like wearing daddy's big shirt? Why can't the new technology fix that? The new rendering improvements make that all the more glaring.
I don't like .duf because it don't look back. I don't want to buy any more "tools" to learn to make stuff work. Seriously, put it all together, and charge for it and just make it work. I know that can be done, and it would be worth just having it instead of poring through threads and finding a 3rd party product that works, oh but not in the next gen. That's shortsighted, IMHO. Just box it up complete and name yer price.
Since I went to digital photography (and wow, that hobby can become hideously expensive, and ever upgrading) I like that I can still open jpg/jpegs that I took with the 2megapixel camera today on my new computer. Resolution of old pix is not what we've come to take for granted. So what? I am not a purist of image resolution for old photos any more than I'm a purist of music quality for old recordings
When I first listened to rock and roll it was on a pocket transistor radio, or on a 1956 stock car radio, or a Sears 45rpm monotone phonograph with a nickel taped to the pickup arm. That is the music quality I was accustomed to, it's what is "genuine" to me. I've bought some remastered music and it's like somebody else was playing. Nice, but not what my eardrums were expecting.