I want V4 Products not V5 or V6. Planned Obsolescence Has To Stop.

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Comments

  • Robo2010Robo2010 Posts: 56
    edited July 2013

    I stopped buying at V4, M4, DS1.8, Bryce 6, Poser 6. Saying I have problems keeping up, financially/expensive and nothing being solved (haven't animated yet, to expensive). The new V6 looks no different than V3/V4, although with updated features. I have not seen a technique in total realism for all the years been using DAZ/Poser (Started at 4) stuff. Myself been working on it, but.

    This is V4 rendered in C8. Just one light used.

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    Post edited by Robo2010 on
  • mrposermrposer Posts: 1,102
    edited December 1969

    I have Genesis, Genesis 2F, Victoria 4,5,6. I think Victoria 4 is still the most popular because she works so well in Poser and DAZ and there is NOT significant advances in realism, beauty, or sexuality in the newer versions of Victoria...maybe incremental... but not substantial like between V4 and V3. And I don't see this new poser girl being developed as a creditable rival either since the group is even more conservative than DAZ (if you can believe that is possible) and the new girl will have no genitals and not sure about nipples... but anyway I don't see the V4 vendors moving to that doll.

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 3,609
    edited December 1969

    this is the good and old v4.2 (my character Dixie)

    DX_pines_-_Kopie.jpg
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  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 3,609
    edited December 1969

    and here a second time with m4

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  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 3,609
    edited December 1969

    just two images of my v4.2 character Dixie

  • JimJim Posts: 728
    edited December 1969

    I like weight maps

  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    edited July 2013

    Fauvist said:

    Pretty much everything for V4 works with V6 with an inexpensive V4 addon anyway - using autofit and taking an extra step to convert clothing though Genesis you don't even need that addon for anything but textures, is there some item in particular you are worried about?

    Yes. I have several thousand poses that were created for Victoria 4. Probably about 10 sets of poses just for her hands. And hundreds of poses I made myself - dance poses, athletic poses etc.
    Posemaster transfers those pretty excellently, though hands can be a bit off. Genesis really does need more dedicated hand posing sets.

    EDIT: It'll batch process whole folders, too.

    Post edited by agent unawares on
  • FauvistFauvist Posts: 1,306
    edited December 1969


    Posemaster transfers those pretty excellently, though hands can be a bit off. Genesis really does need more dedicated hand posing sets.

    EDIT: It'll batch process whole folders, too.

    That's interesting! I haven't heard of Posemaster. Where do you get it?

  • RCDescheneRCDeschene Posts: 2,764
    edited July 2013

    I told Zev0 about this a while back at the V6 Biggest Released thread... -_-"

    Though, at the same time, I don't see why Gen 4 goers are upset about content when Rendo is, as others have said, popping V4 & M4 content just about daily.

    It's actually Genesis is what I'm afraid of. Gen 4 people can depend on third-party places to support their figures because of the Poser consumers, but I'm not sure how much longer G1 will hold strong after G2M (and probably G2C (Genesis 2 Child)) comes along. Genesis isn't all that big at other places...

    Post edited by RCDeschene on
  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    edited July 2013

    Fauvist said:

    Posemaster transfers those pretty excellently, though hands can be a bit off. Genesis really does need more dedicated hand posing sets.

    EDIT: It'll batch process whole folders, too.

    That's interesting! I haven't heard of Posemaster. Where do you get it?
    At Renderosity. It was sold here before but Cridgit left a while back.

    Post edited by agent unawares on
  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited July 2013

    Fauvist said:
    Sisca said:

    Technology always advances. Trying to make it stop because you're satisfied is kind of like trying to teach a pig to sing - a waste of time and it annoys the pig.

    I'm not talking about technology advancing or not. I'm talking about *content* - using conent with new technology. Some live recording made by Paul Robeson in the 1930s can be played on a radio, tv, in a movie, on a vinyl record, on an 8track tape machine, a cassett recorder, on a Sony Betamax video player, on a laser disc, on a satelite radio station, on a computer, on an eBook reader, on an iPhone, and on your wristwatch.
    This is the one that broke me, tell me please what stops you from using your V4 and any V4 content in the NEW versions of Poser or DAZ Studio. I also wish to know IF you were this upset when the V4 was released and all the V3 clothing and morphs stopped working? V4 is two generations behind V6 and things are being done so V4 content can be used on/with V6. That never happened with the other figures as they were developed.

    Post edited by Jaderail on
  • Satira CapriccioSatira Capriccio Posts: 523
    edited December 1969

    Exactly. This whole schism between the two applications is frustrating for both DS and Poser users.

    Smith Micro ... or rather the Poser team which have been together through all the various owners ... seems to be primarily focused on the application development. There isn't or there doesn't seem to be the vast content provider network associated with Smith Micro as there is to DAZ ... but that does rather make sense because DAZ was the content provider for Poser, and Smith Micro is really all about software.

    Since both companies developed separate technologies, it's possible we will never see a figure again from either DAZ or Smith Micro that is native to both applications. But ... we will see one.


    But of course, the complaining won't stop. We're human and humans can always find something to complain about.

    That is, unless one has evolved to a higher plane of existence ...


    robkelk said:
    I want products for a figure that will work natively in Poser, preferably with technological advances comparable to what DS users enjoy with Genesis. Genesis/V5/V6 doesn't do that, so until that figure is released and sufficient content providers support it, I continue to purchase for V4. Unfortunately, while Roxie is fun to work with and bends better in Poser than Genesis, she's not going to get the support of enough content providers.

    Now ... once that native Poser figure arrives, my money will go to those content providers who support it. I'd hoped DAZ would provide us a native Poser figure again, but that hasn't happened. Such is life.


    Looking at this from the other side, I can't use Roxie natively in Daz Studio. From what I've seen of her, she looks like a lovely character, but she's useless to me without a native DS version. And I seriously doubt that CP is going to give us (or sell us) a native DS figure.

    As long as the characters remain native to only one program or only the other, we all have something to complain about.

  • FauvistFauvist Posts: 1,306
    edited December 1969

    Jaderail said:
    Fauvist said:
    Sisca said:

    Technology always advances. Trying to make it stop because you're satisfied is kind of like trying to teach a pig to sing - a waste of time and it annoys the pig.

    I'm not talking about technology advancing or not. I'm talking about *content* - using conent with new technology. Some live recording made by Paul Robeson in the 1930s can be played on a radio, tv, in a movie, on a vinyl record, on an 8track tape machine, a cassett recorder, on a Sony Betamax video player, on a laser disc, on a satelite radio station, on a computer, on an eBook reader, on an iPhone, and on your wristwatch.

    This is the one that broke me, tell me please what stops you from using your V4 and any V4 content in the NEW versions of Poser or DAZ Studio. I also wish to know IF you were this upset when the V4 was released and all the V3 clothing and morphs stopped working? V4 is two generations behind V6 and things are being done so V4 content can be used on/with V6. That never happened with the other figures as they were developed.

    You haven't read the thread - so how could it break you? I'm talking about the compaitiblity of content between generations of figures, not compatibility of figures with Poser or Daz.

  • Canary3dCanary3d Posts: 1,942
    edited July 2013

    Leaving aside which figure rocks/sucks, here are a couple of things that might be helpful

    1. I just finished converting every piece of V4 hair in my collection to Genesis 2 Female, using the V4 add-on from MallenLane. By default V4 hair lines up correctly and fits correctly without any alteration on G2F (YAY) so for prop hair you can use the transfer tool to fit it to G2F, or you can convert it to a Tri-Ax weight mapped object (on the scene edit menu) and parent it to her head, then save it as a figure/prop support file. Voila, converted hair. For longer not-poseable hair, use autofit and after you run autofit then also convert it to subd and add a smoothing modifier (both on the scene edit menu). For poseable hair, convert it to tri-ax, apply smoothing, convert to sub-d, then parent it to her head and save it. All the bones stay the same.

    2. Older versions of poser have a thing called "replace body part with prop." I used this back in P4 and 5 days to "upgrade" some figures with nicer heads. I have a nice Zygote Knight with Michael 1's head, for example, and a stephanie 3 with aiko 1's head. You need the neck to line up but basically you spawn a prop from the head of the nicer-faced figure, line it up with the neck of the original figure (use a modeling app to adjust edges to fit if needed), and then do "replace body part with prop" and replace the head of the original with your prop head. Then do the same thing for the eyes. The bones stay the same and if it's an older figure with distinct groups you can even re-load the morphs for the new head onto your frankenhead by exporting the head obj from the prettier figure when it's in a morphed shape, and then loading it as an obj morph. Not sure how much of that stuff is in the newest versions but it's very handy.

    Post edited by Canary3d on
  • Mr Gneiss GuyMr Gneiss Guy Posts: 462
    edited December 1969

    This isn't a reply to any one post, more my thoughts in general.

    The original subject was planned obsolescence. Welcome to the Industrial age. But, obsolescence isn't always planned, and it isn't just for the hell of it. If DAZ was merely phasing out products arbitrarily, with no benefits, nobody would buy the new ones. However, people buy, or don't buy the new items depending on if they hold value for the customer. If Fauvist and others complain that some of the newer stuff does not work on V4, that is certainly their right, but they are demanding that time stand still. If they are content with V4, with all of it's flaws, thigh topology and bending, messed up shoulders/armpits, etc., they are allowed to be, however please don't expect the rest of us to settle. There were basic problems with V4 that bothered me for years, and interestingly enough, the plethora of complete V4 fixes from content makers didn't seem to show up until AFTER Genesis came out, before that there were a few specific fixes for problem areas. I have seen in other threads that now that V4 is "fixed" there is no need for newer figures, which I find humorous.

    This is nothing new I'm sure if you were to go through the old forums you would have found discussions like this with V4 vs V3, or V3 vs V2, etc.

    I was not in love with the idea of shelling out for V6, I had spent quite a bit on Gen 5, but there were things about the new figure that I found compelling enough to purchase. I also intend to mix in scenes with Gen 5 figures, both Gen 5 and 6 look good enough to stand together in a scene, so my investment in Gen 5 was not a waste. If I want a nicely defined female back musculature, than V6 is perfect, if it's just a clothed female, than Gen 5 females will do nicely.

  • RhaleRhale Posts: 73
    edited December 1969

    V3 was so utterly demolished that Daz were forced to include a V4-to-V3 figure in a V4 update.

  • Fixme12Fixme12 Posts: 589
    edited July 2013

    Vaskania said:
    Fauvist said:
    I don't think vendors will stop making gen4 content. The only reason they would is if it stopped selling. But many stores v4 is their bread and butter.

    From all your posts, you seem to know what you're talking about. Would it be so impossibly difficult for DAZ to release a V4 version of any clothes they make for V6? Or hair?


    I think your plea is to the wrong people as not every product released is even created by Daz. Take the new bodysuit for example-- Smay made that.

    we also can tell the new users that he did not create that with hexagon or even not carrara.
    smay works with MAYA, mudbox or zbrush.
    almost all the big PA's don't use the daz modeler tools, can someone explain the reason behind that to our new users on the site?

    Post edited by Fixme12 on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 66,012
    edited December 1969

    Rhale_2 said:
    V3 was so utterly demolished that Daz were forced to include a V4-to-V3 figure in a V4 update.

    V4 to V3, as with previous V# to v#-1 figures, was included from the outset to make the new figure usable, to an extent, with older clothing.

  • RhaleRhale Posts: 73
    edited December 1969

    Oops, I forgot to tick the #sarcasm tag.

  • IgnisSerpentusIgnisSerpentus Posts: 2,351
    edited December 1969

    I don't think it was planned... I think a lot of vendors jumped the Gen 4 ship, coz Genesis content is well... somewhat simpler Not in every single way, mind you, but the entire overall... much simpler.. Ill give u an example. Im working on a 2 sets that would normally take 2 weeks to test and would be riddled with fixes (and the gen 4 version of them prolly will) The genesis side is so lacking in problems and issues, testing it has been a breeze. In some ways, I can see why some jumped ship... if you don't have a poser slant, or really render art (ur just making content) it would totally make sense. Me, Ive been hard to move, coz I do have a vested interest in gen 4 and render in poser for the most part. Plus, making money off both versions may be enough to keep me doing both. But every vendor is individual, and has to weigh how much that level of frustration is worth to them. Some are content to make less, but have to deal with less frustration.

    But that said, there are still gen 4 things being released. I know Im still doing gen 4 stuff, and will continue to do so as long as its making me money - but the reality is, when it stops, anyone would cease to make content for it. Fortunately, there are enuff die hards around here I dont see that happening anytime soon. And while gen 4 might be few and far between at DAZ, there are other stores that are favoring gen 4, even.

    I know that its frustrating when that *one* outfit you want bad is fitting a figure u don't use, and not working on one that u do. I totally understand where that would be a total bummer. And there really is nothing I can say in that instance to console anyone. As a poser user, Ive met with the same upset, personally. But I guess I just make do with what I have. Either that, or conform to both apps from time to time. Ive learned to be a bit ambidextrous (in this case, not using both hands per se, but both apps)

  • SiscaSisca Posts: 875
    edited December 1969

    fixme12 said:
    Vaskania said:
    Fauvist said:
    I don't think vendors will stop making gen4 content. The only reason they would is if it stopped selling. But many stores v4 is their bread and butter.

    From all your posts, you seem to know what you're talking about. Would it be so impossibly difficult for DAZ to release a V4 version of any clothes they make for V6? Or hair?


    I think your plea is to the wrong people as not every product released is even created by Daz. Take the new bodysuit for example-- Smay made that.

    we also can tell the new users that he did not create that with hexagon or even not carrara.
    smay works with MAYA, mudbox or zbrush.
    almost all the big PA's don't use the daz modeler tools, can someone explain the reason behind that to our new users on the site?

    Possibly because tools like Maya, 3DS and ZBrush are more powerful than Hexagon or Carrara. But then I'd expect them to be since Maya and 3DS are $3500+ each and ZBrush is $700. Compare that to $20 for Hexagon and less than $200 for Carrara.

    The comparison is tools for a professional vs tools for a hobbyist. There are a ton of people using Hexagon or Carrara or Blender to create content but people that are trying to make a living at it demand more from their tools and are willing to pay more to get what they want.

  • Fixme12Fixme12 Posts: 589
    edited December 1969

    Sisca said:
    fixme12 said:
    Vaskania said:
    Fauvist said:
    I don't think vendors will stop making gen4 content. The only reason they would is if it stopped selling. But many stores v4 is their bread and butter.

    From all your posts, you seem to know what you're talking about. Would it be so impossibly difficult for DAZ to release a V4 version of any clothes they make for V6? Or hair?


    I think your plea is to the wrong people as not every product released is even created by Daz. Take the new bodysuit for example-- Smay made that.

    we also can tell the new users that he did not create that with hexagon or even not carrara.
    smay works with MAYA, mudbox or zbrush.
    almost all the big PA's don't use the daz modeler tools, can someone explain the reason behind that to our new users on the site?

    Possibly because tools like Maya, 3DS and ZBrush are more powerful than Hexagon or Carrara. But then I'd expect them to be since Maya and 3DS are $3500+ each and ZBrush is $700. Compare that to $20 for Hexagon and less than $200 for Carrara.

    The comparison is tools for a professional vs tools for a hobbyist. There are a ton of people using Hexagon or Carrara or Blender to create content but people that are trying to make a living at it demand more from their tools and are willing to pay more to get what they want.

    true answer, but it would be wrong to newbies believe that it's created with hex or carrara as it's not. it will take alot more hours in those packages to become close.

  • VaskaniaVaskania Posts: 6,014
    edited July 2013

    fixme12 said:
    Vaskania said:
    Fauvist said:
    I don't think vendors will stop making gen4 content. The only reason they would is if it stopped selling. But many stores v4 is their bread and butter.

    From all your posts, you seem to know what you're talking about. Would it be so impossibly difficult for DAZ to release a V4 version of any clothes they make for V6? Or hair?


    I think your plea is to the wrong people as not every product released is even created by Daz. Take the new bodysuit for example-- Smay made that.

    we also can tell the new users that he did not create that with hexagon or even not carrara.
    smay works with MAYA, mudbox or zbrush.
    almost all the big PA's don't use the daz modeler tools, can someone explain the reason behind that to our new users on the site?
    I'm sorry, but I'm failing to see how the programs used relate to what figures clothing is released for?

    On an OT note, are you trying to discourage people from shooting for the stars with what they have available to them? That just because they may not have a top dollar modelling program they should just give up?

    Post edited by Vaskania on
  • IgnisSerpentusIgnisSerpentus Posts: 2,351
    edited December 1969

    Honestly, you guys couldn't really tell the difference. If I knew two apps equivalently - lets say hex and C4D, and modeled the same outfit both times in each (no ZBrush deformations or whatnot, just straight modelling) you would never be able to tell what meshes were modeled in what. However, if you timed me.... you might be able to tell in some cases.

    Modellers all do the same stuff.... they just do so in different ways. The high end ones are designed to make it easier or faster on you. But they're not necessarily better. That is entirely up to an artist, and how far they push it and know how to handle everything.

  • Canary3dCanary3d Posts: 1,942
    edited December 1969

    What IgnisSerpentis said! I know one PA who is a full-time, popular content creator and uses Blender. I know another - also full-time, also successful - who uses Silo (which is under $200). Everybody figures out what works for them.

  • IgnisSerpentusIgnisSerpentus Posts: 2,351
    edited December 1969

    Vaskania said:

    I'm sorry, but I'm failing to see how the programs used relate to what figures clothing is released for?

    On an OT note, are you trying to discourage people from shooting for the stars with what they have available to them? That just because they may not have a top dollar modelling program they should just give up?

    No, don't do that. As a vendor who has test driven every conceivable modeller in existence, who owns both high end and low end apps, I'm here to tell you it does not matter what u use. Its in the way that you use it (great... now ill have that song stuck in my head all day lol)

  • VaskaniaVaskania Posts: 6,014
    edited December 1969

    Vaskania said:

    I'm sorry, but I'm failing to see how the programs used relate to what figures clothing is released for?

    On an OT note, are you trying to discourage people from shooting for the stars with what they have available to them? That just because they may not have a top dollar modelling program they should just give up?

    No, don't do that. As a vendor who has test driven every conceivable modeller in existence, who owns both high end and low end apps, I'm here to tell you it does not matter what u use. Its in the way that you use it (great... now ill have that song stuck in my head all day lol)
    Exactly! Thank you. =)

  • BarubaryBarubary Posts: 1,159
    edited December 1969

    Frank0314 said:
    Most people have moved on to the new figures. Now that Genesis 2 came out Generation 4 figures are 2 versions back. I can see some vendors still support them cause there are diehards but I think most PA's are gonna go where the money is.


    Are you being sarcastic? Or are there any statistics about how many people use a figure that I don't know about?

    Because from what I can tell Genesis is practically dead at every store except the DAZ store. And Genesis 2...well it's not even very well supported at the DAZ store. So going by your own argument, for a great part of the market 'the money' still seems to be with V4.

    And it seems to me that what some people here call 'diehards' - and maybe it's just me, but is there a touch of condescendence in that word? - is more commonly known as 'Poser user'.

  • tsaristtsarist Posts: 1,396
    edited December 1969

    ssgbryan said:

    This is nothing new I'm sure if you were to go through the old forums you would have found discussions like this with V4 vs V3, or V3 vs V2, etc.

    I was there, and let me assure you, there were no discussions like this. Gen4 was a major leap over Gen3. New content for Gen3 disappeared within 30 days, on every storefront. The only complaints we had was the lack of a male figure to go along with V4.

    True. I was there too. Gen3 vanished so fast there wasn't time to even put her on a milk carton.
    Vicky4 was partnered up with M3 for quite awhile. I remember pose sets coming out for V4 & M3.

    The only reason we are having this discussion is Daz made a programming leap too far.
    Gen 5 should have been able to be used natively in Carrara, Poser, and older versions of DS.

This discussion has been closed.