I want V4 Products not V5 or V6. Planned Obsolescence Has To Stop.

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  • Muon QuarkMuon Quark Posts: 475
    edited July 2013

    Fauvist said:
    Fauvist said:

    *snip*

    DAZ's planned obsolescence has to stop. Enough is enough.

    And you know that V4 is becoming obsolete how?

    The same way I knowV1, V2 and V3 are becoming obsolete.

    That is no answer. You need to present facts before making such a claim. V4 is alive and well based on the fact that content is still being made for her and is available in the store.

    Post edited by Muon Quark on
  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    edited December 1969

    Fauvist said:
    A hundred years later, 250-million-dollar feature films are still shot on film.
    Completely different film than initially used.

    Fauvist said:
    You can still watch I LOVE LUCY on an iPad. You can watch THE GREAT TRAIN ROBBERY from 1903 on your iPhone.
    You can still use Victoria 1 in DS 4.6.

    After 29 centuries, the finest clothing is still made from silk.


    After a somewhat less lengthy span of time, Victoria 6 was still made from polygons.

    Old tech doesn't hold you back. Old thinking holds you back.
    I have to agree with you there. There are always ways to push even further with the tools we have - this is exactly what was done progressing from V4 to V6.

    Pretty much everything for V4 works with V6 with an inexpensive V4 addon anyway - using autofit and taking an extra step to convert clothing though Genesis you don't even need that addon for anything but textures, is there some item in particular you are worried about?

  • tsaristtsarist Posts: 1,393
    edited December 1969

    I support V4.
    I'll keep buying V4 for the forseable future.

    I would like to see more good stuff coming out, but I do realise a few people enjoy the new V5 &V6; and we don't want them feeling left out.

    I'm a serious music fan, but I prefer CDs because of their portability and the ability to make high quality copies to keep in the car, etc.

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 10,821
    edited December 1969

    Most people have moved on to the new figures. Now that Genesis 2 came out Generation 4 figures are 2 versions back. I can see some vendors still support them cause there are diehards but I think most PA's are gonna go where the money is.

  • SnowSultanSnowSultan Posts: 2,706
    edited December 1969


    I want V4 Products not V5 or V6. Planned Obsolescence Has To Stop.


    I want Genesis and Genesis 2 products, not V4. Does my opinion and those who share it carry less weight than yours?

  • BendinggrassBendinggrass Posts: 1,245
    edited December 1969

    sjhayes2 said:
    Fauvist said:
    Mr Leong said:
    We went from records to 8-track, cassettes, CDs. mp3 . . . .

    Innovation is not likely to stop.l

    And now any serious music lover is going back to vinyl records - and the record companies are producing them again.

    Not entirely accurate. It is a niche market, and many "serious" music lovers, myself included enjoy the advantages of CDs over vinyl. I sold my library of 200+ vinyl records as soon as I was able to replace the majority of them on CD. I hate pops and ticks and background noise. For me they destroy the illusion of reality more than the sonic imperfections of the digital format. I am a classical musician and educator with a BM and more than enough additional hours to have a Masters if I wanted to jump through some hoops. I know the plus and minuses of each medium, can hear the plus and minuses of each medium, and have made my choice. Nothing is perfect. Live is best.

    Similarly, you cannot say that any serious 3D artist must use Genesis 2 technology, not that you did. We all make our decisions for many different reasons, but as long as they are based on facts, my choices are as valid as yours, I draw the line at Genesis, you at Generation 4. We both have our reasons. But please don't make a statement about all serious music lovers, or all serious 3D artists, or all serious sports fans etc.

    Interesting comments. I appreciate your thoughts on the music recording medium.
    It will be a long time probably, before I get around to getting V6, if at all, simply because I already have so much V4 material to use and learn from.

    As for the CD/LP question, it usually requires a hefty investment in very good equipment to really bring out the quality in LP or CD.

  • murgatroyd314murgatroyd314 Posts: 1,163
    edited December 1969

    Fauvist said:
    Sisca said:
    "

    Most of the recent blockbuster films have been shot digitally and not on film. Anything 3D has to have been done digitally

    Iron Man, Spider-Man, X-Men, Fantastic Four, and the brand new MAN OF STEEL were shot on 35mm film - just like BIRTH OF A NATION was in 1915. The movie industry uses a digital intermediate.

    This is because 35mm film has the detail equivalent of between 5 and 15 megapixels per frame (for comparison, the highest standard resolution for digital cinema is about 9 megapixels, and a more common one has a quarter of that) and has a much better color range than most digital systems. However, about half the fine detail is lost with each film-to-film copy, so going through digital intermediates results in better quality in the final product.

  • Dino GrampsDino Gramps Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Here's where I think the point is:

    CD vs. Vinyl - Clear advantages and some disadvantages going to the new medium. Advantages outweighed disadvantages to most users so people bought the new technology. The music industry took advantage of their customers by keeping the price of CDs artificially high and is a mere shadow of what it was at it's peak.

    Generation 4 vs. Generation 5 - Clear advantages to the customer moving to Generation 5 with the exception of Poser users. I don't own Poser, but Gen 5 is considered a PITA to use in Poser by many Poser users. Gen 4 has been kept alive because of this situation, mainly at "that other store," and by releasing figures with functionality in both generations.

    Generation 5 vs. Generation 6 - Advantages murky to many customers. A step backward for many since it reverts back to the gender split of Gen 4, which was the single feature that sold many on Generation 5. Brought out sooner than any generation change in DAZ history. Unlike Generation 5, a product needed to be purchased to use content from the previous generation, content that could have been purchased 1 second before the release of Generation 6. DAZ had made little effort to convince it's customers that have been with them the longest that Generation 6 has more advantages than disadvantages. Some PAs have tried, but they came off as insiders who have something that is an advantage to them, not the customer. The newer customers to DAZ don't have as much invested in older generations, they move forward, they don't need to be convinced. The customers that have been with DAZ for years, need to be convinced, not held in contempt for having a strong opinion.

    The music industry for years relied on their lawyers to prosecute pirates and make it next to impossible distribute mp3s legally. They even alienated a number of their own artists in the battle. Well, they may have won the battle, but they lost the war. Their version of the story is video beat them. The reality is they got greedy and shot themselves in the foot.

    IMHO if the CD had been introduced the way V6 was, it would have been a flop.

  • Satira CapriccioSatira Capriccio Posts: 523
    edited December 1969

    I want products for a figure that will work natively in Poser, preferably with technological advances comparable to what DS users enjoy with Genesis. Genesis/V5/V6 doesn't do that, so until that figure is released and sufficient content providers support it, I continue to purchase for V4. Unfortunately, while Roxie is fun to work with and bends better in Poser than Genesis, she's not going to get the support of enough content providers.

    Now ... once that native Poser figure arrives, my money will go to those content providers who support it. I'd hoped DAZ would provide us a native Poser figure again, but that hasn't happened. Such is life.

    I'm not tied to my V4 content ... or rather using my V4 content ONLY on V4, nor am I opposed to technological progress. It would be really odd if I did considering I work in IT.


    The times they are a-changin ...


    I want V4 Products not V5 or V6. Planned Obsolescence Has To Stop.


    I want Genesis and Genesis 2 products, not V4. Does my opinion and those who share it carry less weight than yours?

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 3,609
    edited December 1969

    Fauvist said:
    I have a ton of morphs and poses and clothes and hair and textures for Victoria 4 - that I can't use on V6. I want to be able to use the stuff I already have, and I want new content for V4 to go with it.

    That is what I am talking about since genesis came out. I am still working with the good old v4.2. I have tried to get my Dixie character to genesis v4 version but it do not look the same and also a lot of products I have do not work on genesis.

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 3,609
    edited December 1969

    Fauvist said:
    Fauvist said:

    *snip*

    DAZ's planned obsolescence has to stop. Enough is enough.

    And you know that V4 is becoming obsolete how?

    The same way I knowV1, V2 and V3 are becoming obsolete.

    That is no answer. You need to present facts before making such a claim. V4 is alive and well based on the fact that content is still being made for her and is available in the store.

    visit renderosity...there are many new v4 products every day, much much more then for genesis and I do not see a reason to buy all new for a figure I really don`t like and that is genesis and its versions.

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 3,609
    edited July 2013

    by the way, that is a reason why I buy more at renderosity then here at daz, before gensis it wasn`t so, but since daz came out with genesis I spent more money at renderosity then here at the daz store and in the meanwhile I have much more in my content that I have bought at renderosity like I have bought here. And I am speeking not of just a bit of money I have spent at renderosity.

    If daz has new figures it is okay, but they should support their old figures also. Visit renderosity and have a look how huge the v4 content is and how much is added to that every day (week)

    Post edited by cosmo71 on
  • FauvistFauvist Posts: 1,305
    edited December 1969

    Frank0314 said:
    Most people have moved on to the new figures. Now that Genesis 2 came out Generation 4 figures are 2 versions back. I can see some vendors still support them cause there are diehards but I think most PA's are gonna go where the money is.

    If there is supposedly so much money in Genesis and supposedly so many people buyt content for it and they are making so much money, how come there's a Genesis2 Female already? If Genesis is such a cash-cow, why not roll with it until it exhausts itself? How many content creators are going to continue making content for Genesis, now that there's a new figure - and soon to be a new male figure? How many DAZ shoppers are going to buy Genesis content anymore - when you can potentially buy it for Genesis2. And if there's a Victoria6 there is probably going to be a Michael6 and Freak6 and Hiro6 and Aiko6 and David6 and Stephanie6 and Girl6.

  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    edited December 1969

    Fauvist said:
    If there is supposedly so much money in Genesis and supposedly so many people buyt content for it and they are making so much money, how come there's a Genesis2 Female already?

    Because the Genesis 2 Female is a giant step forward from the Genesis Basic Female. Enough so that DAZ feels confident they'll make even more off of it.
  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 3,609
    edited December 1969

    And (and that is a big and) I have no fun in spending money in new figures and their new content every 6-12month when a new figure comes out.

    I WANT CONTENT FOR V4 (and not the genesis version)

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 3,609
    edited December 1969

    Fauvist said:
    If there is supposedly so much money in Genesis and supposedly so many people buyt content for it and they are making so much money, how come there's a Genesis2 Female already?

    Because the Genesis 2 Female is a giant step forward from the Genesis Basic Female. Enough so that DAZ feels confident they'll make even more off of it.

    possible but as written in my statement above, I have no fun spending new money every few month in new figures, new morph packages and new content

  • robkelkrobkelk Posts: 3,259
    edited July 2013

    I want products for a figure that will work natively in Poser, preferably with technological advances comparable to what DS users enjoy with Genesis. Genesis/V5/V6 doesn't do that, so until that figure is released and sufficient content providers support it, I continue to purchase for V4. Unfortunately, while Roxie is fun to work with and bends better in Poser than Genesis, she's not going to get the support of enough content providers.

    Now ... once that native Poser figure arrives, my money will go to those content providers who support it. I'd hoped DAZ would provide us a native Poser figure again, but that hasn't happened. Such is life.


    Looking at this from the other side, I can't use Roxie natively in Daz Studio. From what I've seen of her, she looks like a lovely character, but she's useless to me without a native DS version. And I seriously doubt that CP is going to give us (or sell us) a native DS figure.

    As long as the characters remain native to only one program or only the other, we all have something to complain about.

    Post edited by robkelk on
  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 3,609
    edited December 1969

    in all my renders in my thread you see the good and old v4.2 and she is good enough and genesis isn`t better. visit my gallery at renderosity if you want to see images of Dixie I can`t post here in my thread and you will see that v4.2 is still great

  • FauvistFauvist Posts: 1,305
    edited December 1969


    Pretty much everything for V4 works with V6 with an inexpensive V4 addon anyway - using autofit and taking an extra step to convert clothing though Genesis you don't even need that addon for anything but textures, is there some item in particular you are worried about?

    Yes. I have several thousand poses that were created for Victoria 4. Probably about 10 sets of poses just for her hands. And hundreds of poses I made myself - dance poses, athletic poses etc.

    I can't even get Victoria 4 to work in DAZ's own Carrara without spending hours fixing the textures for every single thing I import. Why do I bother importing V4 and her hair and clothes into Carrara if they don't work? Because there are entire sets of location models that only open in Carrara.

  • FauvistFauvist Posts: 1,305
    edited July 2013


    I want V4 Products not V5 or V6. Planned Obsolescence Has To Stop.

    -

    Post edited by Fauvist on
  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 3,609
    edited December 1969

    Frank0314 said:
    Most people have moved on to the new figures. Now that Genesis 2 came out Generation 4 figures are 2 versions back. I can see some vendors still support them cause there are diehards but I think most PA's are gonna go where the money is.

    can be that they are diehards, if nothing more is available for v4 here in the future I will leaf.

  • FauvistFauvist Posts: 1,305
    edited July 2013

    You know - THANK YOU everyone who argued against me - sincerely. I just realized that I can do with Genesis2 Female and V6 what I've been doing with the Generation 3 figures which have, in my opinion, far superior facial geometry to work with than Generation 4 figures.

    I will just make Genesis2 Female's body invisible, and parent her head to Victoria 4's body, and make Victoria 4's head invisible. That way I can take advantage of any improvement that comes with Genesis2's higher resolution mesh for her face, and not have to re-buy any new clothes or hair or poses.

    Post edited by Fauvist on
  • GrazeGraze Posts: 417
    edited July 2013

    cosmo71 said:
    possible but as written in my statement above, I have no fun spending new money every few month in new figures, new morph packages and new content

    Have you purchased every "non-Generation 5 and 6" content ever made?
    If not, then you bought only what you wanted, and didn't buy what you didn't want.
    Same thing here with Generation 5 and 6.
    They're here for those that want it. No one has to buy it.
    I was happy with V3. I think her face is better than V4 in sculpt. I only got V4 because Daz was giving it away free.

    Post edited by Graze on
  • TJohnTJohn Posts: 10,305
    edited December 1969

    I am unsubscribing from this thread because it has begun to read like an infinite loop with no exceptional condition coded in. Good luck to those that have the spare time to remain.
    Peace.

  • FauvistFauvist Posts: 1,305
    edited December 1969

    tjohn said:
    I am unsubscribing from this thread because it has begun to read like an infinite loop with no exceptional condition coded in. Good luck to those that have the spare time to remain.
    Peace.

    Good idea!

  • Muon QuarkMuon Quark Posts: 475
    edited July 2013

    Fauvist said:
    tjohn said:
    I am unsubscribing from this thread because it has begun to read like an infinite loop with no exceptional condition coded in. Good luck to those that have the spare time to remain.
    Peace.

    Good idea!

    Well if you don't want opinions then don't start a thread that will invite them. You know as well as I do Fauvist that people in these forums are more than willing to offer their opinions on various topics.

    Post edited by Muon Quark on
  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 3,609
    edited July 2013

    Mr Leong said:
    cosmo71 said:
    possible but as written in my statement above, I have no fun spending new money every few month in new figures, new morph packages and new content

    Have you purchased every "non-Generation 5 and 6" content ever made?
    If not, then you bought only what you wanted, and didn't buy what you didn't want.
    Same thing here with Generation 5 and 6.
    They're here for those that want it. No one has to buy it.
    I was happy with V3. I think her face is better than V4 in sculpt. I only got V4 because Daz was giving it away free.

    nope and as written in one other statement, I have bought much more for v4 (clothes and hair) at renderosity since two years because they have much more variety of really good clothes and hair, should also say here, that I do not use the original v4.2 but the wwgII figure with v4.2 morphs,morphs++ and elite + badabing (morphing/shaping tool) + i13overhaul for daz + v4 bend, with all that v4.2 is great converted to subD

    Post edited by cosmo71 on
  • riftwitchriftwitch Posts: 1,365
    edited December 1969

    sjhayes2 said:
    Fauvist said:
    Mr Leong said:
    We went from records to 8-track, cassettes, CDs. mp3 . . . .

    Innovation is not likely to stop.l

    And now any serious music lover is going back to vinyl records - and the record companies are producing them again.

    Not entirely accurate. It is a niche market, and many "serious" music lovers, myself included enjoy the advantages of CDs over vinyl. I sold my library of 200+ vinyl records as soon as I was able to replace the majority of them on CD. I hate pops and ticks and background noise. For me they destroy the illusion of reality more than the sonic imperfections of the digital format. I am a classical musician and educator with a BM and more than enough additional hours to have a Masters if I wanted to jump through some hoops. I know the plus and minuses of each medium, can hear the plus and minuses of each medium, and have made my choice. Nothing is perfect. Live is best.

    But please don't make a statement about all serious music lovers, or all serious 3D artists, or all serious sports fans etc.

    I have to agree with you; pops, clicks, noise, wow & flutter are all things I can do without. I would consider myself a serious music lover (BM, Berklee, class of '81), and I have NO interest in going back to vinyl or tape. I'm not going to get into an argument over the pros & cons of various formats, but I hardly think that being a serious music lover automatically means you must prefer vinyl. We all have our personal tastes, and there is nothing forcing us to all like the same things.

    But to return to the topic, you CAN use V4 clothes, hair, and textures on V5/Genesis without extra purchases. Using them on V6/Genesis 2 does require a little more spending, but it really isn't that much. If you want the V4 shape, there is a version for Genesis, and by combining that with the V6 ghost shape in the Freepository, you should be able to use V6/Genesis 2 items on the Genesis V4 shape. It's probably not quite the same as making them fit on the V4.2 figure you have, but there are ways to approximate it.

    As far as new V4 things, you may want to take a look at other content vendors; I still see lots of new things for V4 being released. Probably more than I do for Genesis.

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 3,609
    edited December 1969

    riftwitch said:
    sjhayes2 said:
    Fauvist said:
    Mr Leong said:
    We went from records to 8-track, cassettes, CDs. mp3 . . . .

    Innovation is not likely to stop.l

    And now any serious music lover is going back to vinyl records - and the record companies are producing them again.

    Not entirely accurate. It is a niche market, and many "serious" music lovers, myself included enjoy the advantages of CDs over vinyl. I sold my library of 200+ vinyl records as soon as I was able to replace the majority of them on CD. I hate pops and ticks and background noise. For me they destroy the illusion of reality more than the sonic imperfections of the digital format. I am a classical musician and educator with a BM and more than enough additional hours to have a Masters if I wanted to jump through some hoops. I know the plus and minuses of each medium, can hear the plus and minuses of each medium, and have made my choice. Nothing is perfect. Live is best.

    But please don't make a statement about all serious music lovers, or all serious 3D artists, or all serious sports fans etc.

    I have to agree with you; pops, clicks, noise, wow & flutter are all things I can do without. I would consider myself a serious music lover (BM, Berklee, class of '81), and I have NO interest in going back to vinyl or tape. I'm not going to get into an argument over the pros & cons of various formats, but I hardly think that being a serious music lover automatically means you must prefer vinyl. We all have our personal tastes, and there is nothing forcing us to all like the same things.

    But to return to the topic, you CAN use V4 clothes, hair, and textures on V5/Genesis without extra purchases. Using them on V6/Genesis 2 does require a little more spending, but it really isn't that much. If you want the V4 shape, there is a version for Genesis, and by combining that with the V6 ghost shape in the Freepository, you should be able to use V6/Genesis 2 items on the Genesis V4 shape. It's probably not quite the same as making them fit on the V4.2 figure you have, but there are ways to approximate it.

    As far as new V4 things, you may want to take a look at other content vendors; I still see lots of new things for V4 being released. Probably more than I do for Genesis.

    all I want is rendering :(

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