Daz 3D Introduces dForce Physics Engine

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  • Chohole said:
    Mada said:

    Did you see this one? 

    Yeah, I watched it. It shows how to do it with the already set up dress that comes with the dforce essentials. I had no problem using it with dress it comes with:

     

    However it doesn't tell how to turn other clothing into dforce compliant (or whatever it's called) material. I tried to follow one of your videos but you have different options than I do. For instance when you went under your dforce settings, on your video it shows "Add dForce modifier and surface simulation settings".  But it doesn't give me that option.

     

    Have you read the "dForce - Start Here" (https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/203081) thread? Particularly the first post, and more specifically the response to the "How do I get started?" (http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/203081#get_started) question. If you do nothing else, pay particular attention to the note at the bottom of that response.

    Oh, thank you! :D I'll read it. I'm sure it will help a lot. :) If I can focus long enough to read it all anyway. lol Darn ADD doesn't play well with giant wall-o-texts. heheh :) Thank you for the link, I'll force myself to read it, as I'm sure it will be a big help in learning how to do this properly. :)

    I've managed to figure some of it out. I got it to work well enough to do a couple renders so far. This one is kind Christmasy - I know, I know, WAY too early for Christmas. But I love Christmas! heheh

    Three tips that seem to help, at least for me:

    1) Set the figure to "base" resolution (seems to help with crashing, I think).

    2) Hide EVERYTHING but the figure - this includes lashes, eyebrows, hair - everything.

    3) Pose the figure THEN load the clothing item (don't know why, but it seems to help - at least for me).

    Then select the clothing item and apply the dforce dynamic clothing setting, then "simulate". 

    Those things seem to help, at least for me and my rig.

    Additional notes:

    1. Some clothing with just explode. I'm not sure why. But some just explode. 

    2. Simple clothing seems to work best. If there are a lot layers and/or a lot of detailing, it doesn't seem to work as well from what I've tested so far.

    3. Applying the DForce Dynamic Clothing setting can turn of the "smoothing" for the clothing item. Go under Parameters and make sure you have "Enable Smoothing" set to On.

    "lol Darn ADD doesn't play well with giant wall-o-texts. heheh :)"

    No it does not, nor does ADHD :P 

  • DivamakeupDivamakeup Posts: 8,806
    Wilmap said:

    Here are a couple more with the original Star:

     

    This looks like one of my dresses!  Haven’t had a chance to try this out yet, but nice to know some of mine will work.

    Hahah Yes, ma'am! I've been playing all evening with DForce and your clothes, and all the ones I've tried work beautifully with it! :D Thank you for making such great quality clothing! heart

  • DivamakeupDivamakeup Posts: 8,806

    There was a first post? O_O Ha. I forget how I found this thread. I think through Facebook.

    I'm using Star 2.0; the Genesis 3 one. She's easy to grab.

    Well, on my end NOW... it's not "converting" a single thing anymore. It'll add the dialogue in the parameters, but that's it.

    Yes, it's odd. If there's one thing about me, it's that I'm going to find odd. And I'm going to break your program by doing nothing wrong. I am the perfect tester. And I spend a lot of my time frustrated.

    I don't think it's just you. The figure in my renders is the Original Star (not the G3F version). The hair works good with her with DForce (at least on my end) however the hair just goes completely through the Genesis 3 version of Star when I've tried to use DForce with her. I'm not sure what that's all about. I'll have to see if I can figure it out. 

  • Hrm! I noticed the folks at DAZ borrowed a lot of Optitex terminology in their settings (which makes it easier for me). I wonder if they also borrowed the collision base, which is to say subD doesn't collide.

    I just rebooted *trying* to get Dforce to work. If it does I'll turn Star 2 to base geo and see what happens.

  • Okay yeah it's broke on my end. It has officially become a dramah llama for me. Has anyone else reported this? If not, then I won't be reading that other thread as it would be a collosal waste of time.

  • DivamakeupDivamakeup Posts: 8,806

    Hrm! I noticed the folks at DAZ borrowed a lot of Optitex terminology in their settings (which makes it easier for me). I wonder if they also borrowed the collision base, which is to say subD doesn't collide.

    I just rebooted *trying* to get Dforce to work. If it does I'll turn Star 2 to base geo and see what happens.

    Ok I've been playing with Star 2.0 (G3F version) and literally everything (including clothing made for G3F) falls straight through her when the simulation stars. So... yeah. Looks like Star 2.0 might not be compatable with DForce? 

  • If you make Star into a collision surface does it still happen?
  • DivamakeupDivamakeup Posts: 8,806
    If you make Star into a collision surface does it still happen?

    Yeah, I tried using the "Static Surface" modifier on her and clothes still fall straight through her.

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 4,266
    edited October 2017

    Well, it had been using my GPU at the beginning when I first installed the beta, but now it says there's an error and even rebooting won't make it work again. Something in the log about a kernel.

    Laurie

    Edit: Actually, a reboot DID fix it. My bad :P

    Post edited by AllenArt on
  • AllenArt said:

    Well, it had been using my GPU at the beginning when I first installed the beta, but now it says there's an error and even rebooting won't make it work again. Something in the log about a kernel.

    Laurie

    That's exactly whats happening here too. Worked once and now kernel error and crash.

  • HavosHavos Posts: 3,840
    If you make Star into a collision surface does it still happen?

    Yeah, I tried using the "Static Surface" modifier on her and clothes still fall straight through her.

    This is pretty odd given Star 2.0 is just a morph, or so I thought. Is her extreme head a geograft? If so that might explain it if geografts are not currently supported by dForce.

    If Star 2.0 is only dialled in at 50%, do the clothes only half drop through her!

  • Aave NainenAave Nainen Posts: 1,090
    esha said:

    Some notes:

    • Having only the most necessary items visible speeds up things considerably. By default, everything in your scene is set to be a (potential) collision item. That means, the calculations obviously process everything that is visible, even if it is at 10 meters distance to your figure, and the simulation can take rather long. Hiding the environment, shoes, G8's eyelashes, hair etc. makes the sim run much faster.
       
    • Make sure that your pose is not physically impossible. If the hand moves through the body while going from zero to final pose that will mess up the simulation. Also leave a little distance for the fabric between body parts. That's why I prefer to simulate along the timeline, so I can control the movement and, if necessary, add intermediate keyframes to make the hand go round the body instead of through it.
      My favourite setup is this: default pose in frame 0, final pose in frame 15, tweak pose anywhere it is necessary between 0 and 15, leave frames 15-30 for the cloth to settle down.
       
    • Make sure that nothing pokes into anything in the final pose. In many hand-on-hip poses the fingers stick a little bit into the torso, that's a no-go for dForce. Also upper arms intersecting with breasts or torso, elbows sunk into knees, kneeling poses where the calves poke into the thighs - all these are cases where fabric can get caught in between. If dForce doesn't know where to put the fabric because there is no physical room for it, it will "explode". Also when you forget to hide the hair and a long strand sticks into the body, and thus into the clothing, that will also cause an "explosion" of the mesh.
       
    • The position of the figure can affect the simulation. Posing a figure in the same spot where it is in frame 0 will make the clothing drape quietly without a lot of extra movement. If you move the figure some meters to the side for the final pose, you'll get much more movement in skirts, capes etc. because the fabric picks up some speed during that movement.
      You can use that effect to your advantage, e.g. have a chair somewhat behind the figure and move the figure backwards into a sitting pose. That can help to avoid crumpling of the skirt when the figure is sitting down. And if you rotate the figure around the Y axis, the skirt will twirl around the figure in interesting folds. When the sim has finished, you can rotate and move the figure without affecting the simulation.
       
    • Related to the previous point: You don't have to start from the zero pose (which is the memorized pose in most cases). You can also switch off that option in the simulation settings and use a different starting pose. For example, for a lying pose you could rotate the figure into a horizontal position as a starting pose, that will speed up the calculations and often it creates nicer draping results than going from a standing pose to a lying pose.
      You could also use the final pose as a starting pose and run the simulation only to make the fabric drape around that pose. This will have somewhat different results than using an unposed figure as a starting point but it can give some nice results, too.

     

    Great tips Esha!  Perhaps your excellent outline could be stickied so it's easier for people to find.

  • AllenArt said:

    Well, it had been using my GPU at the beginning when I first installed the beta, but now it says there's an error and even rebooting won't make it work again. Something in the log about a kernel.

    Laurie

    That's exactly whats happening here too. Worked once and now kernel error and crash.

    Are you both trying a saved or new scene?

  • DivamakeupDivamakeup Posts: 8,806
    edited October 2017
    Havos said:
    If you make Star into a collision surface does it still happen?

    Yeah, I tried using the "Static Surface" modifier on her and clothes still fall straight through her.

    This is pretty odd given Star 2.0 is just a morph, or so I thought. Is her extreme head a geograft? If so that might explain it if geografts are not currently supported by dForce.

    If Star 2.0 is only dialled in at 50%, do the clothes only half drop through her!

    Ok, so your comment got me thinking, so I tried something (since DForce works fine with G3F, what happens if I load G3F THEN dial in Star's shape). That worked! So it looks like if you start with the Star 2.0 "Actor" from the figures line up in Smart Content then everything falls through her. HOWEVER if you start with a regular G3F then dial in Star 2.0's SHAPE - then DForce works fine. :)

     

    Post edited by Divamakeup on
  • AllenArt said:

    Well, it had been using my GPU at the beginning when I first installed the beta, but now it says there's an error and even rebooting won't make it work again. Something in the log about a kernel.

    Laurie

    That's exactly whats happening here too. Worked once and now kernel error and crash.

    Are you both trying a saved or new scene?

    I'm using new scenes and new outfits, too.

  • Aave NainenAave Nainen Posts: 1,090
    BeeMKay said:
    BeeMKay said:

    I'm not very happy with this so far... When it works, it works fine. But I can't seem to get anything decent simulated. Most dresses I tried this with didn't render on the 980Ti I have, and trying to switch to CPU causes crashes. If I start out with CPU, the simulation freezes at 1 second, and then I get a crash after a few minutes.

    Just had G1 using Miss Fishers Wardrobe dress bowing out on me. No. Fun.

    I assume I'm doing something really wrong, as everyone else her seems to be just doing fine.

    I just tried MF Wardrobe Fabulous Dress Genesis 1 and it simulated no problem,  please remember to reduce Bend Stiffness on the dress to 0.30,  I left all other settings at default other than setting to Timeline Animation versus Current frame.  Just slide over to frame 30 and set your figure pose there.

     

    It keeps crashing the system for me, no matter what I do.

    Here are my steps:

    • Load G1
    • Load dress
    • Select dress in scene tab
    • select dress surfaces in surface tab
    • Go to dForce tab, apply the dForce Modifier to the dress
    • select G1, go to timeline, go to frame 30, apply pose
    • select dress
    • set Bend Stiffness to .3
    • set Simulation to animated.
    • In Advanced tab of dForce tab, change Engine to CPU
    • Start simulation.
    • Result:

     

    • Edited to add: This is not a memory problem, as I have now monitored memory usage of the CPU, and it only comes up to 3.8GB. Reducing G1 to base does not help.

    Have you run the Update and Merge Menus script?  You'll find that under Scripts/Utilities in your content library.  

    Esha's post has some great tips regarding figure pose,  it could be part of the problem you are having and may need adjustments to avoid clipping.

  • wolf359wolf359 Posts: 2,336

    Hi,  A few questions if I may.

    Has anyone created any actual locomotion  figure animations with this??
    (like this video below)


    Also is there a wind option??

    Can a simulation be baked  to morphs and exported as an MDD file using 
    the MDD exporter in the full animate 2 plugin??


    Thanks all.

  • Havos said:
     

    Ok, so your comment got me thinking, so I tried something (since DForce works fine with G3F, what happens if I load G3F THEN dial in Star's shape). That worked! So it looks like if you start with the Star 2.0 "Actor" from the figures line up in Smart Content then everything falls through her. HOWEVER if you start with a regular G3F then dial in Star 2.0's SHAPE - then DForce works fine. :)

    Woot! So there's that - I'm happy as I use Star 2 for things.

    Now to *just get it to work* on my end at all! I loaded XinXin and her hair. The simulation settings will appear in the surfaces tab, but I don't get the parts needed for the weight map editor. That's fine I guess. I hate that thing. So I've been doing a workaround using the geometry editor. Discovered I might be able to simulate more than one object at a time - which is important to me, and it quit after the first try.

    I notice a trend here; working once. Then quitting.

  • AllenArt said:

    Well, it had been using my GPU at the beginning when I first installed the beta, but now it says there's an error and even rebooting won't make it work again. Something in the log about a kernel.

    Laurie

    That's exactly whats happening here too. Worked once and now kernel error and crash.

    Are you both trying a saved or new scene?

    I'm using new scenes and new outfits, too.

    Try the outfit in dForce Essentials and see if it is still crashing.

  • EndiEndi Posts: 23

    Cool :-)

     

     

    ydress.jpg
    1488 x 881 - 654K
  • Aave NainenAave Nainen Posts: 1,090

    PC+ Boho Dress works beautifully,  set Simulation Strength to zero on the skirt waistband, reduced Bend Stiffness to .30 on all surfaces and used Contraction-Expansion set to 120% on the collar to make it a bit fuller/longer.

     

    Boho.jpg
    1000 x 1300 - 523K
  • DivamakeupDivamakeup Posts: 8,806
    Havos said:
     

    Ok, so your comment got me thinking, so I tried something (since DForce works fine with G3F, what happens if I load G3F THEN dial in Star's shape). That worked! So it looks like if you start with the Star 2.0 "Actor" from the figures line up in Smart Content then everything falls through her. HOWEVER if you start with a regular G3F then dial in Star 2.0's SHAPE - then DForce works fine. :)

    Woot! So there's that - I'm happy as I use Star 2 for things.

    Now to *just get it to work* on my end at all! I loaded XinXin and her hair. The simulation settings will appear in the surfaces tab, but I don't get the parts needed for the weight map editor. That's fine I guess. I hate that thing. So I've been doing a workaround using the geometry editor. Discovered I might be able to simulate more than one object at a time - which is important to me, and it quit after the first try.

    I notice a trend here; working once. Then quitting.

    I noticed the Star 2.0 eyes break it. So you can use Star 2.0 Shape, just not the Star eyes. Bleh. :(

     And yeah, it seems to be a big memory hog (or something). So I noticed after you run a simulation or two it stops working. So you have to close out Daz then reboot it. Sometimes need to reboot computer. :( Hopefully they figure out how to get to sim more without needing a reboot so frequently. I just remind myself "It's beta". lol

  • BeeMKayBeeMKay Posts: 6,609
    BeeMKay said:
    BeeMKay said:

    I'm not very happy with this so far... When it works, it works fine. But I can't seem to get anything decent simulated. Most dresses I tried this with didn't render on the 980Ti I have, and trying to switch to CPU causes crashes. If I start out with CPU, the simulation freezes at 1 second, and then I get a crash after a few minutes.

    Just had G1 using Miss Fishers Wardrobe dress bowing out on me. No. Fun.

    I assume I'm doing something really wrong, as everyone else her seems to be just doing fine.

    I just tried MF Wardrobe Fabulous Dress Genesis 1 and it simulated no problem,  please remember to reduce Bend Stiffness on the dress to 0.30,  I left all other settings at default other than setting to Timeline Animation versus Current frame.  Just slide over to frame 30 and set your figure pose there.

     

    It keeps crashing the system for me, no matter what I do.

    Here are my steps:

    • Load G1
    • Load dress
    • Select dress in scene tab
    • select dress surfaces in surface tab
    • Go to dForce tab, apply the dForce Modifier to the dress
    • select G1, go to timeline, go to frame 30, apply pose
    • select dress
    • set Bend Stiffness to .3
    • set Simulation to animated.
    • In Advanced tab of dForce tab, change Engine to CPU
    • Start simulation.
    • Result:

     

    • Edited to add: This is not a memory problem, as I have now monitored memory usage of the CPU, and it only comes up to 3.8GB. Reducing G1 to base does not help.

    Have you run the Update and Merge Menus script?  You'll find that under Scripts/Utilities in your content library.  

    Esha's post has some great tips regarding figure pose,  it could be part of the problem you are having and may need adjustments to avoid clipping.

    Yes, I run the scripts, uninstalled and reinstalled the drivers, and used a very simple pose. The dress always crashes. It doesn't matter which setting I use, GPU, CPU, Good, Best, Better quality. However, I was able to make other dresses work, that look more complex than the Fab dress... and the other two outfits I have for G1 of that collection also work.

    I have no idea what's going on, honestly.

  • Has anyone tried this on any men's clothing? Shirts, scarves, pants, a toga or robe perhaps? I already know my computer won't be able to handle this, but it would be good to know for when I get a new system in the future.

  •  

    I noticed the Star 2.0 eyes break it. So you can use Star 2.0 Shape, just not the Star eyes. Bleh. :(

     And yeah, it seems to be a big memory hog (or something). So I noticed after you run a simulation or two it stops working. So you have to close out Daz then reboot it. Sometimes need to reboot computer. :( Hopefully they figure out how to get to sim more without needing a reboot so frequently. I just remind myself "It's beta". lol

    That is weird. LOL. But also good news on my end. I don't use the Star 2 eyes.

    I just had Xinxin in a simply dress with her hair ready to simulate. This was after a reboot. Everything went black and then DAZ crashed. So even rebooting doesn't fix it.  I'm debating on if I should inform them that Dforce doesn't... Dforce for me. It only surface tabs.

    I think it's far too Beta for people to even use at this point. O_O The days where I could buy more RAM are over, so if they can't get it to work then I'm SOL!

     

  • PC+ Boho Dress works beautifully,  set Simulation Strength to zero on the skirt waistband, reduced Bend Stiffness to .30 on all surfaces and used Contraction-Expansion set to 120% on the collar to make it a bit fuller/longer.

    I think you need to compile a list of the all clothing and their settings, starting with yours of course laugh

  • Aave NainenAave Nainen Posts: 1,090

    PC+ Boho Dress works beautifully,  set Simulation Strength to zero on the skirt waistband, reduced Bend Stiffness to .30 on all surfaces and used Contraction-Expansion set to 120% on the collar to make it a bit fuller/longer.

    I think you need to compile a list of the all clothing and their settings, starting with yours of course laugh

    IOh no, folks have probably heard enough from me already!

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 30,420

    Hrm! I noticed the folks at DAZ borrowed a lot of Optitex terminology in their settings (which makes it easier for me). I wonder if they also borrowed the collision base, which is to say subD doesn't collide.

    I just rebooted *trying* to get Dforce to work. If it does I'll turn Star 2 to base geo and see what happens.

    Nothing was 'borrowed' from the Optitex plugin. Spring-mass system implementations will use similar terms because they are intrinsic to the subject matter.

     

  • RKane_1RKane_1 Posts: 2,580

    Has anyone tried capes? Is there a "wind machine" for when more than just Gravity applies?

  • wolf359 said:

    Hi,  A few questions if I may.

    Has anyone created any actual locomotion  figure animations with this??
    (like this video below)


    Also is there a wind option??

    Can a simulation be baked  to morphs and exported as an MDD file using 
    the MDD exporter in the full animate 2 plugin??


    Thanks all.

    1: Not yet, to my knowledge.

    2: Yes.

    3: I'm not sure it's quite there as yet.

     

    Hope these answers help a bit.

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