Daz 3D Introduces dForce Physics Engine

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  • dkgoosedkgoose Posts: 1,368

    Darn I can't download on my offline machine at the moment lol 

  • LyonessLyoness Posts: 1,197
    L'Adair said:
    dkgoose said:

    I downloaded and installed the beta tha said 4.10but it's showing as 4.9.3.117?

    I had the same problem. However, I download on one machine, move the file over via a network connection, and install with DIM on the render machine. Itried uninstalling and reinstalling. No go. I uninstalled again, allowed DIM to connect directly from my "offline" computer, downloaded and installed, and I've now got 4.10.

    However...

    I still have a splash screen, while DS is loading, that shows 4.9! That through me off for a moment, but the info across the top of the window did indicate 4.10. (A new splash screen, please. It would be a bit less confusing.)

    my splash says 4.9 but the build number on the ABOUT page says the version is 4.10
    so don't worry,

  • dkgoosedkgoose Posts: 1,368

    I think I figured it out, i think it was installing an older file, I deleted it and transferred the file again so hopefully it will work

  • dkgoosedkgoose Posts: 1,368

    Just loaded it's the right version now, I had a feeling something was up when I kept getting an error message loading Genesis 8 that a newer version needed to be installed but it still loaded so I figured it was just a glitch, now to walk dogs and then play around with it 

  • FinlaenaFinlaena Posts: 531

    Having played around with it for a little while this evening, I'd say it's got some bugs to work out, but otherwise it's amazing!

    It's caused DS to crash on me a couple of times -and one or two times where I had to do a hard reset of my iMac-, though I'm not sure if that's because of my graphics card or not (AMD Radeon M380, 2015 iMac). Using it on smaller things, though, it works without too many issues. 

  • Aave NainenAave Nainen Posts: 1,089
    Oh my goodness! I love her toes poking out from under the dress - so cute!

    Speaking of toes (plus fingers and other small fiddly bits), does the dForce system avoid the problem with Optitex cloth where small high-density mesh bits of the figure can cause the drape to glitch pretty severely?

    If you do have toes etc. poking through you can parent primitives or a pair of socks over the toes, fingers etc. and just hide them via surfaces opacity, that will give your cloth something with larger polys to collide with.  You can do the same over the heels of shoes to keep them from poking through a dress.

  • Lyoness said:
    kyoto kid said:
    AllenArt said:
    ebergerly said:

    "dForce compliant"?? Um, thanks but no thanks. 

    Why not just get something like VWD that can be used on anything, rather than pay for dForce compliant content? 

    Apparently anything can be made "dforce compliant"

    Laurie

    ...I wonder if you can do it with any meshes (thinking "Salvador Dali" here)

    yep.

    Dripping humans are very entertaining.

    These are made by Saiyaness, she is very gifted.

    Please tell me I can buy these figures somewhere :D 

  • LyonessLyoness Posts: 1,197
    Lyoness said:
    kyoto kid said:
    AllenArt said:
    ebergerly said:

    "dForce compliant"?? Um, thanks but no thanks. 

    Why not just get something like VWD that can be used on anything, rather than pay for dForce compliant content? 

    Apparently anything can be made "dforce compliant"

    Laurie

    ...I wonder if you can do it with any meshes (thinking "Salvador Dali" here)

    yep.

    Dripping humans are very entertaining.

    These are made by Saiyaness, she is very gifted.

    Please tell me I can buy these figures somewhere :D 

    I believe that is Genesis 3 Female on the top and Genesis 3 Male on the bottom!
     

  • Okay, I've been playing and crashing DS with this thing for 2 hours now.  The only thing I've managed to do is get the simulation started.  It does nothing.  I have no clue how long I'm supposed to wait.  Longer than 20 minutes seems a bit much.  I'm using an AMD FX 8350 with 8 cores.  I have a Saphire Radian R7 260X graphics card.  It's not exactly the slowest computer out there though definitely no the fastest.  I've never done any kind of simulation that has taken this long with any other tools.

    I must be doing something wrong but I have no clue what I'm missing.

  • MadaMada Posts: 863

    Did you try one of the sample scenes? Once its installed they should show up under My Daz 3D Library : Scenes : dForce Starter Essentials.

  • No, I'll try one of those and see how it goes.  Thanks!

  • hphoenixhphoenix Posts: 1,323
    edited October 2017

    I'm seeing a major memory leak and othe problems just trying to use a fairly simple scene and apply a dForce dynamic setting to one piece of worn clothing.  Literally turns DS into a non-responsive heap as memory usage climbs outrageously (got up to 22GB last time I tried the process, with different figure/clothes/scene.)

    I already mentioned it in the announce thread.  This new thing (if I could use it) would be a fantastic addition to DS.......if they can get it stable.

     

    eta:  If someone else can try this, and see if they get the same results:  Start DS, start Task Manager.  Load a simple environment.  Load a single G3F character.  Add Hair to figure.  Add clothing (simple) to character.  Move timeline to frame 15.  Apply pose to character.  Select clothing node in scene.  Apply a dForce dynamic setting to it.  Examine Task Manager.  Now select another object/figure node in the scene tab.  Now watch Task Manager and see memory usage by DS climb outrageously while it takes quite a while just to change nodes.  Once it does, then try selecting another node.  Watch it get even worse.  Then clear the scene with File->New.  Watch the memory usage NOT go back down.

     

    Post edited by hphoenix on
  • Pack58Pack58 Posts: 724
    hphoenix said:
    stuff

    I would try that for you but if I load a hair before applying the dForce simulation D/S crashes.

  • DivamakeupDivamakeup Posts: 8,706

    Does someone have a step by step walk through on how to use dforce? 

  • MadaMada Posts: 863

    Did you see this one? 

  • hphoenixhphoenix Posts: 1,323
    hphoenix said:

    I'm seeing a major memory leak and othe problems just trying to use a fairly simple scene and apply a dForce dynamic setting to one piece of worn clothing.  Literally turns DS into a non-responsive heap as memory usage climbs outrageously (got up to 22GB last time I tried the process, with different figure/clothes/scene.)

    I already mentioned it in the announce thread.  This new thing (if I could use it) would be a fantastic addition to DS.......if they can get it stable.

     

    eta:  If someone else can try this, and see if they get the same results:  Start DS, start Task Manager.  Load a simple environment.  Load a single G3F character.  Add Hair to figure.  Add clothing (simple) to character.  Move timeline to frame 15.  Apply pose to character.  Select clothing node in scene.  Apply a dForce dynamic setting to it.  Examine Task Manager.  Now select another object/figure node in the scene tab.  Now watch Task Manager and see memory usage by DS climb outrageously while it takes quite a while just to change nodes.  Once it does, then try selecting another node.  Watch it get even worse.  Then clear the scene with File->New.  Watch the memory usage NOT go back down.

     

    Well, Rob suggested going through and disabling any plugins that might be conflicting, and so I disabled every plugin other than the base DAZ ones and Animate2/Keymate/Graphmate.  One of them was causing the issue.  I'll narrow it down tomorrow.  However it still crashed DS after a few seconds of trying to run the simulation.  And the 'link' in the tips for the simulation settings goes to a 'access denied' page on the daz docs.

  • I'll wait for the bugs to get worked out. Besides, I have enough in the queue to last a while without another learning curve. But this is the best news of the freaking year, people! 2018 is gonna be great.

  • DivamakeupDivamakeup Posts: 8,706
    edited October 2017
    Mada said:

    Did you see this one? 

    Yeah, I watched it. It shows how to do it with the already set up dress that comes with the dforce essentials. I had no problem using it with dress it comes with:

    However it doesn't tell how to turn other clothing into dforce compliant (or whatever it's called) material. I tried to follow one of your videos but you have different options than I do. For instance when you went under your dforce settings, on your video it shows "Add dForce modifier and surface simulation settings".  But it doesn't give me that option.

     

    Post edited by Divamakeup on
  • Pack58Pack58 Posts: 724
    hphoenix said:

    Well, Rob suggested going through and disabling any plugins that might be conflicting, and so I disabled every plugin other than the base DAZ ones and Animate2/Keymate/Graphmate.  One of them was causing the issue.  I'll narrow it down tomorrow.  However it still crashed DS after a few seconds of trying to run the simulation.  And the 'link' in the tips for the simulation settings goes to a 'access denied' page on the daz docs.

    I did run it as you asked but using a scarf instead of hair and didn't observe any of the memory proplems you described, only plugin is animate2 and using Process Hacker  not  Task Manager

  • AlmightyQUESTAlmightyQUEST Posts: 1,114
    edited October 2017

    I can't even get Hinata dress started simulating, so you're not alone. But hey, it's still in beta.

    What's happening for you? I haven't done anything fancy, but it seems to be simulating fine for me.

    Ho ho, literally as I posted this, a new simulation (this one with a sitting pose) was going fine and then suddenly exploded. But my first two standing poses (with leaning, hands on hips, etc) simulated ok.

    Post edited by AlmightyQUEST on
  • MadaMada Posts: 863
    Mada said:

     

    However it doesn't tell how to turn other clothing into dforce compliant (or whatever it's called) material. I tried to follow one of your videos but you have different options than I do. For instance when you went under your dforce settings, on your video it shows "Add dForce modifier and surface simulation settings".  But it doesn't give me that option.

     

    Use Add dForce modifier : Dynamic Surface :)

  • eshaesha Posts: 2,500
    edited October 2017

    Some notes:

    • Having only the most necessary items visible speeds up things considerably. By default, everything in your scene is set to be a (potential) collision item. That means, the calculations obviously process everything that is visible, even if it is at 10 meters distance to your figure, and the simulation can take rather long. Hiding the environment, shoes, G8's eyelashes, hair etc. makes the sim run much faster.
       
    • Make sure that your pose is not physically impossible. If the hand moves through the body while going from zero to final pose that will mess up the simulation. Also leave a little distance for the fabric between body parts. That's why I prefer to simulate along the timeline, so I can control the movement and, if necessary, add intermediate keyframes to make the hand go round the body instead of through it.
      My favourite setup is this: default pose in frame 0, final pose in frame 15, tweak pose anywhere it is necessary between 0 and 15, leave frames 15-30 for the cloth to settle down.
       
    • Make sure that nothing pokes into anything in the final pose. In many hand-on-hip poses the fingers stick a little bit into the torso, that's a no-go for dForce. Also upper arms intersecting with breasts or torso, elbows sunk into knees, kneeling poses where the calves poke into the thighs - all these are cases where fabric can get caught in between. If dForce doesn't know where to put the fabric because there is no physical room for it, it will "explode". Also when you forget to hide the hair and a long strand sticks into the body, and thus into the clothing, that will also cause an "explosion" of the mesh.
       
    • The position of the figure can affect the simulation. Posing a figure in the same spot where it is in frame 0 will make the clothing drape quietly without a lot of extra movement. If you move the figure some meters to the side for the final pose, you'll get much more movement in skirts, capes etc. because the fabric picks up some speed during that movement.
      You can use that effect to your advantage, e.g. have a chair somewhat behind the figure and move the figure backwards into a sitting pose. That can help to avoid crumpling of the skirt when the figure is sitting down. And if you rotate the figure around the Y axis, the skirt will twirl around the figure in interesting folds. When the sim has finished, you can rotate and move the figure without affecting the simulation.
       
    • Related to the previous point: You don't have to start from the zero pose (which is the memorized pose in most cases). You can also switch off that option in the simulation settings and use a different starting pose. For example, for a lying pose you could rotate the figure into a horizontal position as a starting pose, that will speed up the calculations and often it creates nicer draping results than going from a standing pose to a lying pose.
      You could also use the final pose as a starting pose and run the simulation only to make the fabric drape around that pose. This will have somewhat different results than using an unposed figure as a starting point but it can give some nice results, too.

     

    Post edited by esha on
  • eshaesha Posts: 2,500

    Regarding using your own meshes or existing clothes for dForce:

    It is possible, but not all items will work.

    What is not welded to the main mesh, will fall off (pockets, buttons, decorations etc.). Small decorations you can stick on later by using rigid follow nodes. To keep pockets in place and make them drape with the fabric you'll probably need to re-work the mesh to weld them on.

     

    Regarding using unrigged props:

    Yes, you can import an obj file and set it up for dForce. But there are some downsides to it:

    Since it's not a follower (a rigged item fitted to a base figure) it won't auto-follow the morphs of the base figure.

    Because it's not rigged you cannot use weight maps to "pin" some areas onto the figure. The weightmaps for the dForce influence allow you to reduce the dForce effect in certain areas, for example to keep necklines or waistlines in place. For these areas Daz Studio then uses the normal rigging information so the clothing follows the figure's movements without being draped by dForce. If the item hasn't been rigged, and you exclude some areas from the dForce sim, those parts will stay rigid because they have no rigging information. They won't move properly with the figure.

     

  • DivamakeupDivamakeup Posts: 8,706
    Mada said:
    Mada said:

     

    However it doesn't tell how to turn other clothing into dforce compliant (or whatever it's called) material. I tried to follow one of your videos but you have different options than I do. For instance when you went under your dforce settings, on your video it shows "Add dForce modifier and surface simulation settings".  But it doesn't give me that option.

     

    Use Add dForce modifier : Dynamic Surface :)

    Ah, that's what I thought, and I tried that. I've not been successful though. 

  • marblemarble Posts: 3,291
    esha said:

    Some notes:

    • Having only the most necessary items visible speeds up things considerably. By default, everything in your scene is set to be a (potential) collision item. That means, the calculations obviously process everything that is visible, even if it is at 10 meters distance to your figure, and the simulation can take rather long. Hiding the environment, shoes, G8's eyelashes, hair etc. makes the sim run much faster.

    Thanks for these tips. I don't have this version (or dForce) yet but perhaps a quick question: is there a way to select collision surfaces (as with Optitex) or is that achieved only by hiding? Also, is it necessary to leave a gap between figure and, for example, a chair or bed?

  • Luv LeeLuv Lee Posts: 215

    Hell yeah baby--that's wat I am talkin' bout right there!

  • eshaesha Posts: 2,500
    marble said:
    esha said:

    Some notes:

    • Having only the most necessary items visible speeds up things considerably. By default, everything in your scene is set to be a (potential) collision item. That means, the calculations obviously process everything that is visible, even if it is at 10 meters distance to your figure, and the simulation can take rather long. Hiding the environment, shoes, G8's eyelashes, hair etc. makes the sim run much faster.

    Thanks for these tips. I don't have this version (or dForce) yet but perhaps a quick question: is there a way to select collision surfaces (as with Optitex) or is that achieved only by hiding? Also, is it necessary to leave a gap between figure and, for example, a chair or bed?

    There is also an option in the parameters tab to make an item "invisible for the simulation" without making it actually invisible in the scene. I just find it easier to hide architecture and the like in the scene tab.

    And yes, it's best to leave a small gap between the figure and any item it is sitting or lying on, otherwise the clothing is likely to explode.

  • NathNath Posts: 1,417

    Starting up Studio and setting a drape works fine. A second drape with either another item of clothing or a different pose, Studio freezes and crashes.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 30,251
    edited October 2017
    Mada said:

    Did you see this one? 

    Yeah, I watched it. It shows how to do it with the already set up dress that comes with the dforce essentials. I had no problem using it with dress it comes with:

     

    However it doesn't tell how to turn other clothing into dforce compliant (or whatever it's called) material. I tried to follow one of your videos but you have different options than I do. For instance when you went under your dforce settings, on your video it shows "Add dForce modifier and surface simulation settings".  But it doesn't give me that option.

     

    Have you read the "dForce - Start Here" (https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/203081) thread? Particularly the first post, and more specifically the response to the "How do I get started?" (http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/203081#get_started) question. If you do nothing else, pay particular attention to the note at the bottom of that response.

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • BeeMKayBeeMKay Posts: 6,585
    edited October 2017
    BeeMKay said:

    I'm not very happy with this so far... When it works, it works fine. But I can't seem to get anything decent simulated. Most dresses I tried this with didn't render on the 980Ti I have, and trying to switch to CPU causes crashes. If I start out with CPU, the simulation freezes at 1 second, and then I get a crash after a few minutes.

    Just had G1 using Miss Fishers Wardrobe dress bowing out on me. No. Fun.

    I assume I'm doing something really wrong, as everyone else her seems to be just doing fine.

    I just tried MF Wardrobe Fabulous Dress Genesis 1 and it simulated no problem,  please remember to reduce Bend Stiffness on the dress to 0.30,  I left all other settings at default other than setting to Timeline Animation versus Current frame.  Just slide over to frame 30 and set your figure pose there.

     

    It keeps crashing the system for me, no matter what I do.

    Here are my steps:

    • Load G1
    • Load dress
    • Select dress in scene tab
    • select dress surfaces in surface tab
    • Go to dForce tab, apply the dForce Modifier to the dress
    • select G1, go to timeline, go to frame 30, apply pose
    • select dress
    • set Bend Stiffness to .3
    • set Simulation to animated.
    • In Advanced tab of dForce tab, change Engine to CPU
    • Start simulation.
    • Result:

     

    • Edited to add: This is not a memory problem, as I have now monitored memory usage of the CPU, and it only comes up to 3.8GB. Reducing G1 to base does not help.
    simcrash.JPG
    1614 x 853 - 129K
    Post edited by BeeMKay on
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