Daz 3D Introduces dForce Physics Engine

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  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    edited October 2017
    marble said:

    After almost 10 pages of this thread a couple of things seem clear to me. One is that dForce is not yet stable enough for general release and I don't have the patience to put up with repeated crashing

    Same here. I haven't been able to get it to run stably enough to run even half a dozen back to back simulations. It does seem slightly better with less polys in the draped model.

    Also, the cloth simulation in dForce so far looks far too dependent on how many polys a model has. If I use dForce to drape a very well-behaved MD dress, using similar settings, it droops until most of it has fallen right off the figure. If I export a much lower-poly version of the dress, it holds its shape somewhat and stays on the model. That's unacceptable for me in a cloth sim. Yes, a dress with more polys has more points to interact with itself and more places to bend so minor details of the drape should certainly be different. But 4X polys shouldn't mean the dress suddenly stretches 4X as far with (presumably) the same fabric.

    I agree - ideally, more verts would not equal more weight. You can compensate for it by scaling the density, though, no?

    - Greg

    Good question, does that work? I thought this was happening because the simulation was trying to let points under strain spread out to have more or less the same distance between them, and so more points=more surface area ultimately. But it could be that density is weighted by vertice also. If changing the density fixes this that means calling density GSM is hogwash and that needs to be fixed even worse, don't need a cloth to fall inexplicably faster if I subdivide it.

    Post edited by agent unawares on
  • MadaMada Posts: 865
    edited October 2017

    There's a surface adjuster that is quite fun to experiment with for different cloth effects :) click image for larger view

    dForceSurfaceAdjuster.jpg
    1440 x 1298 - 405K
    Post edited by Mada on
  • Jack238Jack238 Posts: 112

    wow... nice.... thanks for sharing 

  • JOdelJOdel Posts: 4,657

    Is there any way to download the Studio Beta manually? I get to a page, but all it's got are the different content packages. Not the BETA of the program.

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 4,273

    As far as I know you have to get the beta thru DIM. You have to check the beta versions in your filters.

    Laurie

  • LyonessLyoness Posts: 1,203

    SURFACE ADJUSTER is the total way to go when you want to play with some of those dials!
    it will help PREVENT explosions.

     

    Mada said:

    There's a surface adjuster that is quite fun to experiment with for different cloth effects :) click image for larger view

     

  • LyonessLyoness Posts: 1,203
    edited October 2017

    some of you may not understand what is meant by an explosion.
    this is what it looks like:

    explosion.png
    672 x 874 - 1M
    Post edited by Lyoness on
  • MadaMada Posts: 865

    lol - great explosion

  • LyonessLyoness Posts: 1,203
    Mada said:

    lol - great explosion

    it's one of yours!  Calliope for V4.  I went WAY back for that.

     

  • DivamakeupDivamakeup Posts: 8,811
    edited October 2017

    DForce needs work, but as far as I'm concerned it's one of the best things EVER! lol As soon as they get the bugs worked out, this is thing is going to be amazing! It already is pretty amazing, imo! :)

    Morphing Fantasy Dress on G8F:

     

    I'm not sure which dress this is, but I was tickled that I could get a laying down pose to finally work: 

     

    Post edited by Divamakeup on
  • SpottedKittySpottedKitty Posts: 6,403

    Another question just occurred to me — one of the limitations in Optitex dynamics is that the cloth is semi-fixed to its original size; it's possible (but not easy) through lots of fiddly adjustments to shrink a cloth surface in X and Y independently, but expanding anything by more than a tiny fraction will cause the drape to crash immediately. Is dForce more flexible with resizing, or does it have an easier way to do it?

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 4,273

    Another question just occurred to me — one of the limitations in Optitex dynamics is that the cloth is semi-fixed to its original size; it's possible (but not easy) through lots of fiddly adjustments to shrink a cloth surface in X and Y independently, but expanding anything by more than a tiny fraction will cause the drape to crash immediately. Is dForce more flexible with resizing, or does it have an easier way to do it?

    Nope, really easy here. Just use that surface adjuster to expand or shrink the cloth and voila! ;).

    Laurie

  • maxikgmaxikg Posts: 17
    edited October 2017

    So far, excluding bugs, it's great tool for fun ;)

    I wonder, if it's possible to collide a couple of persons with soft couch - until now it was imposible for more than one person :)

    Post edited by maxikg on
  • MadaMada Posts: 865
    Lyoness said:
    Mada said:

    lol - great explosion

    it's one of yours!  Calliope for V4.  I went WAY back for that.

    Hahahaha, no wonder it’s such an “elegant” explosion, quite artistic lol ;)

  • AllenArt said:

    Another question just occurred to me — one of the limitations in Optitex dynamics is that the cloth is semi-fixed to its original size; it's possible (but not easy) through lots of fiddly adjustments to shrink a cloth surface in X and Y independently, but expanding anything by more than a tiny fraction will cause the drape to crash immediately. Is dForce more flexible with resizing, or does it have an easier way to do it?

    Nope, really easy here. Just use that surface adjuster to expand or shrink the cloth and voila! ;).

    Laurie

    You can also repose your figure, and use any clothing morphs after the simulation without the drape resetting, which is a HUGE advantage over Optitex IMHO.

     

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,173
    AllenArt said:
    If you make Star into a collision surface does it still happen?

    Yeah, I tried using the "Static Surface" modifier on her and clothes still fall straight through her.

    RAMWolff said:

    OK, please tell me there is a way for content creators to make their own cloth that will work in this engine... if no then it won't do allot of us any good as that is just another wall that prevented most of us from making stuff that could be used in the Opitex engine.  Please tell me it's going to be content creator friendly!  Thanks

    I'm using a dress I made years ago for another figure on G3F right now. All is fine :)

    Laurie

    Thanks Allen and Bee... yea, just home from work and reading through the thread.  I see all the info I didn't have time to look for.  I'm totally stoked about that.  This is truly a game changer.  I guess my subscription to MD is on the shelf then!  No need.

    My other question is, is there a way to save out the sims as morph targets? 

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,173

    OH, and this has been asked but would love a solid answer. 

    Is there a wind option  so that caps, bell sleeves and the like can get some air movement?

  • For saving, not sure if this answers your question specifically as I don't know about morph targets, but the end of the first post here talks about saving:

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/203081/dforce-start-here#latest

    And yes there is a wind node, basically like adding a fan to the scene. Haven't done much with it yet to get details, but enough to know it works.

  • RAMWolff said:
    AllenArt said:
    If you make Star into a collision surface does it still happen?

    Yeah, I tried using the "Static Surface" modifier on her and clothes still fall straight through her.

    RAMWolff said:

    OK, please tell me there is a way for content creators to make their own cloth that will work in this engine... if no then it won't do allot of us any good as that is just another wall that prevented most of us from making stuff that could be used in the Opitex engine.  Please tell me it's going to be content creator friendly!  Thanks

    I'm using a dress I made years ago for another figure on G3F right now. All is fine :)

    Laurie

    Thanks Allen and Bee... yea, just home from work and reading through the thread.  I see all the info I didn't have time to look for.  I'm totally stoked about that.  This is truly a game changer.  I guess my subscription to MD is on the shelf then!  No need.

    My other question is, is there a way to save out the sims as morph targets? 

    Yes, I've draped objects, exported it as .obj, and imported back in to the original as a morph, using morph loader pro. Works fine.

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 7,413
    edited October 2017

    Arrgh! Right comment, wrong thread... blush

    Post edited by L'Adair on
  • veenveen Posts: 38
    Mada said:

    lol - great explosion

    how to avoid such explosions (sorry i am newbie)

  • Fixme12Fixme12 Posts: 590
    edited October 2017

    seems 'm missed this thread,

    How is D-force going to work with MarvelousDesigner clothes?

    On what system where the test running and how long the calculation actually takes, as it's passed in the vids.

    Post edited by Fixme12 on
  • Fixme12Fixme12 Posts: 590

    +1 one for daz's more open communication, even if it's still beta!

    make D-force work with MarvelousDesigner and make lot of MD fans happy....

    Personally 'm more for realtime physics, but guess that would not be in a free version of the soft (wich sounds good for me, as long as it's doing the job well).

  • veenveen Posts: 38
    edited October 2017
    Fixme12 said:
     

    i like your signature :REQUESTING MORE ZBRUSH TUTORIALS @ SHOP SUBJECTS CREATING: CHARACTERS/CLOTHES/SHOES(HEELS,BOOTS)/MORPHING/HAIR/TEXTURING,...

    special the creating characters part, i never found a tutorial that teach how to create a new character from scratch to final package.

    other things are in store

    Post edited by veen on
  • FistyFisty Posts: 3,389
    Fixme12 said:

    seems 'm missed this thread,

    How is D-force going to work with MarvelousDesigner clothes?

    Very well, try a mesh density of 10-12 to start, raise or lower if  you're not getting the folds you want in DS.  Some things work better as quads, some are better left as tris.. just have to play with it to find out which works best for that perticular item.  Remember if you have buttons/etc to leave them as seperate props and parent them with rigid follow nodes, makes life easier.

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 4,610
    JOdel said:

    Is there any way to download the Studio Beta manually? I get to a page, but all it's got are the different content packages. Not the BETA of the program.

    Betas are only available via DIM.

  • Fixme12 said:

    seems 'm missed this thread,

    How is D-force going to work with MarvelousDesigner clothes?

    As far as I know, they work fine if the poly count is low and the item uses subdivision to achieve a higher poly count.

    Fixme12 said:
     

    On what system where the test running and how long the calculation actually takes, as it's passed in the vids.

    How long the calculations take depends on whether you're using CPU or GPU; the first time I ran one it took 10 minutes but that was on CPU. GPU with an nVidia card takes a little over a minute.

  • Only just noticed this thread, can you literally setup any clothes as a cloth and bodies as hard surface? I did a scene with horses and riders a while back and trying to apply deformers to a long coat so I could pose it over the horse was a night-mare(pun fully intended). Coould this also work for hair?
  • BeeMKayBeeMKay Posts: 6,612
    Only just noticed this thread, can you literally setup any clothes as a cloth and bodies as hard surface? I did a scene with horses and riders a while back and trying to apply deformers to a long coat so I could pose it over the horse was a night-mare(pun fully intended). Coould this also work for hair?

    Yes, that would work, though the coat would probably pose problems. Most of the male clothes I tried fell apart at the seams, or simply "exploded". There's also the issue of polygones in the collision. But it would be worth trying.

    Some people successfully used it on low poly hair by turning off self collision. You'd probably even could use it for soft body stuff, but at this stage (there's some amazing molten people earlier in this thread wink), it's officially just for clothing simulation. I'm really looking forward to the developement there, and I'm happy that you also can use your older clothing and things. The process is pretty straight forward, and I've actually for the first time used the map paitning tools in Studio. Took me a while to figure out that for substracting from the map, you need to keep the Alt-key pressed... but then, it worked really nicely.

  • eshaesha Posts: 2,511
    Fixme12 said:

    seems 'm missed this thread,

    How is D-force going to work with MarvelousDesigner clothes?

    As far as I know, they work fine if the poly count is low and the item uses subdivision to achieve a higher poly count.

    The simulation uses the geometry of the base mesh. SubD doesn't help here, it will only be applied after the sim has finished. If you want finer folds, increase the density of the base mesh.

    Actually you can use polycount to regulate your fabric's behaviour in a dForce sim: Low poly items will drape like stiff, unwieldy fabrics. High poly items will drape like fine, soft silk. Of course this can be enhanced further by using the appropriate surface settings. But never forget that the base geometry plays an important role, too.

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