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I've seen ads for Michael 7 on occasion amd actually got a Kenji 7 ad tonight, so DAZ IS promoting the male characters.
I think DAZ and the PAs are producing the correct ratio of boys to girls, and I think they are marketing both appropriately well. I'm quite sure that DAZ Steve is speaking the truth about the numbers. What reason would he have to overlook or assume anything? The numbers are pretty conclusive about what works and what does not, and it would be business foolishness to ignore them or to let personal preferences overshadow them.
I too buy more ladies than men, because that's where my art interests gravitate to. I'll be straight. I am. Straight that is, and as a straight (somewhat hot-blooded) man, this has a strong bearing on the art that I do (or don't do, as the case may be). As a general rule, I only include men in my images if they serve to promote and illuminate the lady who's already in the image, because well...she always was ALREADY in the image (in my mind's eye). It is this way for me because of who I am at my core. If I did this for a living, that might not be the case as often.
I still appreciate good male figures and accessories, of course and I'll pay for them. But they're not first in my mental picture and so they're not usually first in my shopping cart.
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Ok, I'll grant you that. But the opposite (reverse? corollary? inverse? contrary?) is also true:
Assuming whatever a business is doing is wrong is ... hubris.
Common fellows, the DAZ Store is still all bikinis and doom.
Nothing has changed except a few extra male figures are being produced for the game market.
Oh, I quite disagree! There really are more options than before!
LOL, that's true - it has improved. I was just going for an easy laugh.
I think there's been a lot more men than before. A lot of variety too. I hardly buy any male figures, but with the recent increase in supply, I've started to buy more of them. And while there is a lot of "girls, girls, girls", am I wrong in seeing that they almost all have freckles lately? Nothing against freckles, but seems every figure has them now. Freckles must sell like hotcakes.
Freckles (These are ALL the most recent figures that I could see except for MRL Ling which would be 6th going from most recent):
http://www.daz3d.com/pix-raelyn-raeku-character-and-splash-swim-wear-for-genesis-3-female-s
http://www.daz3d.com/p3d-angel-hd-for-genesis-3-female
http://www.daz3d.com/snowflake-for-aiko-7
http://www.daz3d.com/millie-for-aiko-7
http://www.daz3d.com/vyk-sydney
http://www.daz3d.com/ly-vega-davin-hd
Snowflake and Millie hardly count as freckled. Freckles are as normal as the moles and such the other models have, although those models are so lightly freckled it just sort of breaks up the monotany of every model having what amounts to the same looking skin.
Most people have at least a little freckling on their noses even if it's super light. I think it's more just people going for a little more detail, and it just looks good.
Of course... considering the next girl I have up for release, that may seem a little disingenuous :D
So you're implying that vendors should offer products that don't sell as well just so there is a balance between genders? How is that more sensible than having guaranteed sales, since they have access to the data about what does and doesn't sell.
The male market is smaller and if an item is too fringe or niche it might have less appeal. the stuff that seems to sell to me are useful items that aren't too niche or fringe. Certain popular unisex hairs for example.
i do wonder at the some of the trends for example men with heavy Makeup and goth clothing for men. Does this sell well? I'm only asking because I see a fair amount, I don't buy it and don't see a ton of renders, and yet, goth outfits keep coming out...
You mean DAZ, don't you, since every DRM item for G3M or G3F has been a DAZ Original.
Some vendors from RDNA did this kind of stuff, so it must. There are also vendors elsewhere that do it, I believe.
oooo Sneak Peek?
I don't think vendors really have a good enough idea of why products don't sell as well as they would like to improve the next version if those not buying don't state the issues clearly in a thread about the item. That, along with the expense of having to buy things that could improve them (an outfit for G3M should also have fits for as many of the DAZ base figures as practical at the time it's made, for example) but if an item doesn't do well, they jave little motivation to invest in those things. The same with figures; to have the genital mats that some folks want, they need to invest in one of the DAZ figure Pro bundle, just like we do to have them available.
Maybe.... vendors now have years of marketing data (as those of you who have gotten the occasional Daz3d survey or participated as a ninja in a Daz3d beta may know), the results of a/b test such as space suits which are identical for male and female but the female always sell better, the real world experience of those who actually make and sell male products in the stores, as well as the observation in the real world that there are less men clothes, male models, male fashion magazines, and men's clothing stores in both brick and mortor and online stores. Here in the Bay Area, Macys is paired with a Macys Men's store as well as Sak 5th Avenue, H&M, etc... which all have their own men's store but I think this isn't common throughout the country. What we aren't seeing real cases in Daz3D data or other store data, that is a male product will sell better or as well as a female product consistently.
safe to say there's at least one huge dichotomy in the female/male product dynamic.
imagine the reception a clothing product for female characters would get if it only fit characters who had their breasts and anatomical elements hidden?
yikes--
but clothing products for males? neutering characters to get their clothes to 'fit' is totally the norm...
yow.
j
Culture and fashion change. It isn't historically true that men have fewer clothing options than women.... Men used to have quite a bit so I wouldn't gauge human taste by what currently the fashion as that can change quite a bit.
Agree about the neutered man. Fit for pants. The groin area has become increasingly an eyesore as Iray drives 3D towards realism except the fit of mens pants which still belong in the Genesis days of doughy cling wrap.
I think I posted that just a couple hours before she popped up in the store. http://www.daz3d.com/cc-reagan-for-rune-7
Small vendors will keep making and selling whatever (they PRESUME) will sell. And then sometimes they overproduce and create glut.
And then if the unmet demand is spoken and heard, the market may adjust, or, the unchecked mono strategy just charge ahead like no tomorrow.
I've long come to terms Daz3D is in the business of digital "play-dress-up for the fantasy modeling photo session". I don't think it's just men playing dress up (or undressing lol). I have enough females around me preferring to have daughters for the reason "girls are more fun I get to dress her up". Both sexes enjoy dressing up and fussing around the female body for its own sake! Which is totally cool...if you don't animate.
Ask any multi-million game dev, do they enjoy creating and animating female game characters. And why. Start with Assassin's Creed production notes.
Sometimes you don't need (to get bogged down by) all the fuss!
Creatively, some users also want to move beyond dressing/undressing barely clothed females of a certain concretized shade and contour.
The artists looking to tell actual stories, or ANIMATE the actors, they need casting agents with updated, more diverse actor's portfolio.
For the experienced CG eyes, the more realistic the skin, the more unbiased the lighting, the more plastic-fantastic and saccharin and underwhelming (and even depressing) the window-shoping experience.
Ironic, it is the mundane casual wears and imperfect bodies that catch my eyes these days.
Ironic too, as I'm equally fatigued/ bored by gaming world's predominantly grit-for-no-reason sterile wasteland visual.
There are 167 more archetypical human outlines than 25 year old pouty posey females and a few broody zombie-eye warrior heros.
It's not the PA's job to inspire the users, but it would be nice. I always appreciate well-rendered product shots (and sometimes seduced into buying things I can make myself!)
Regardless of vendor biases and tendency to play safe and generate glut...
The market owner/maker should always keep product diversity happening, not to please a minority, but just for profit and survival contingency.
Always have a diversification plan...in the time of videos and VR!
What will break the visual staleness will not be PA's political correctness but true story-tellers and animators' demand for wider, more practical character design ideas and animation ready products.
Morph3D is a good direction but there is a pent-up untapped energy in DS Genesis 1/2/3 for dramatic cinematics.
Static posing, frozen pouting, narrow character designing....surprise...the result is stagnation! Time for some PROACTIVE jolts of stimulation...
I think Clothing physics, Hair dynamic, and global FLEX dynamics will cause an explosion of creativity, and product diversity!
I'm biased, totally so!
oooo Sneak Peek?
Ahh thank you, she's in my cart, and I'm currently having a cool down period (I'll wait a few hours); I don't do instant buy. I't gets way too expensive and I end up with far too much 'crap'* I don't need.
*In this instance it's termed crap because I don't need it, not as a reflection of its quality.
And yet this is only a problem for precisely the reason you state; most men's clothing that is loose fitting doesn't need the noticeable bulge that would make the tight fitting pants look right.
I've returned to education, well done some for the first time later in life, and one of the guys on the course is gay; he loves lose fitting clothes, tracksuits especially as he says the gets to watch things swing about. Now that would be entertaining to see incorporated into Daz.
Of course, this talk of tight fitting clothes being inacurate representation for men, is also often true of women too; those of us overweight (I am atm, it varies.) avoid it as there is more comfort in lose clothes, and I see many women wearing lose, more than I do tightly fitted.
A couple of things:
1: Vendors shouldn't be expected to do every body archetype, since DAZ sells the morphs for us to do them ourselves if needed. Vendors will give us the skin.textures we want, or the means to do them ourselves if we are patient.
2: If we want the vendors to make more of a particular thing, we need to buy what they do make, even if it's not quite what we want, and we need to do it at least as often as we do for other kinds of products, else they will say "it doesn't sell (as well) as our other products" and be reluctant to make more.