Girls, girls...girls

Erdehel

RCDeschene said:

Erdehel said:

fastbike1 said:

Really? In the last few months we've had Ivan and all his characters, Kimo and all his characters, Lee and all his characters, The Guy, Gianni, and Leo. Just to mention a few. Each have had a big promotion. Just sayin'

 

That's pretty new. I am not yet sure this is gonna be a continuous trend.

Actually, it is. Daz_Steve himself here even once revealed that we're going to get many more males this year with female releases. We know that we're getting a new conterpart to Aiko, Tween Julie is getting one, and we still have yet to see which lady Lucian 7 will escourt.

 

Good news for me :) Bad news for my wallet :( Thx for the info.

nicstt

Serene Night said:

DAZ_Steve said:

It's interesting that several people in this thread have theorized that the real issue is that there is more marketing and promotion of females and female content.  The reality however, is that as a percentage of the character's launched by Daz, a higher percentage are male than used to be (nearly 50%.)  When looking ateffort to produce the male is the same as the female.  We continue to do this because we hear you, and know there is a demand.  But, to think that thiS demand is equal or close is not true

I actually don't think enough is done to promote male content or figures. It isn't a conspiracy it is what I see.  In fact the promotion I see is so overwhelmingly female with male registering a blip now and then. Most of the adverts and such are mostly female. 

Go to the Instagram account and check out the content on your feed. Check the ads that appar on various site. Check out daz main page most of the time?

If you want to attract artists who render men and buy male content you don't promote women  only content and female content 24/7

edit: I will say your Facebook page is better than your Instagram account. But I think you are still missing some understanding of what could be done more to showcase male figures.

 

 

 

Personally, for it is in part a matter of perspective; I'm not argueing that there is more female than male, that is true.

But I buy more female figues, and think there is far to much male stuff, but I accept that others want it so tend to keep quiet, with only occasional posts..

I object to the name of this thread though, it is yet another give us more male stuff, with a misleading title. Perhaps change it to "Not more: Girls, girls, girls."

 

One point of agreement; I've been disappointed in the quality of the male items I have bought - this is with regards to clothing when compared to female. I haven't bought much, and it had made me reluctant to buy more; even though I can return items, (I'd sooner not if I can come to a decission before purchasing.)

3delinquent

What!? No Motley Crue? What a rip!

Butch

nicstt said:

One point of agreement; I've been disappointed in the quality of the male items I have bought - this is with regards to clothing when compared to female. I haven't bought much, and it had made me reluctant to buy more; even though I can return items, (I'd sooner not if I can come to a decission before purchasing.)

 

I'll agree with this completely.  And, considering the $ exchange rate that I currently get, I can't afford to buy items that are poor quality.

And, yes, quite a few male characters have been released, but very few outfits to go with them.  Where's a swimsuit for G3M?

Leana

nelsonsmith said:

maybe the majority of buyers never come to the forums and give their opinions

An overwhelming majority, yes.

evilded777

DAZ_Steve said:

It's interesting that several people in this thread have theorized that the real issue is that there is more marketing and promotion of females and female content.  The reality however, is that as a percentage of the character's launched by Daz, a higher percentage are male than used to be (nearly 50%.)  When looking at the role that promotions play in male vs. female sales, I can say that if we have a female character we make a good character, commission a lot of content to be built, do a lot of promotion, build bundles, launch the sale, etc.  With a male character we do exactly that same thing.  When this happens the launch of the male character will generate far less in sales than the launch of the female, even with equal efforts and promotions.  This is true, even though the cost and effort to produce the male is the same as the female.  We continue to do this because we hear you, and know there is a demand.  But, to think that this demand is equal or close to it is not true.  As such, it makes sense that if someone needs to make a living as an artist, they will choose to sell something that has a lot more people interested to consume it. 

This is not to say this is my (or Daz's) preference, or stance.  It's just telling you what the results and numbers say.

Marketing towards your current audience, perhaps; the emails and banners to the people who are already customers..  But as Serene Night pointed out, look at the other channels: predominence of female. Having been around this for quite some time, I know it has been this way, always; but its getting worse. I understand its a business, I understand you have to do what works, put money into what's going to sell... but there are markets out there that are not being tapped.  I used to be part of a community... its pretty much dried up and blown away at this point, but they should have been a target for specific marketing. 

Oso3D

nemesis10 said:

My impression was that the Genesis suit didn't sell very well; apparently there were going to be more sets for it but the few that were released didn't sell well either.

Really? It had 5 extra pack products (Supersuit Troopers, Mardi Gras Supersuit, Supersuit SciFi Pack, Supersuit Hero Pack, Supersuit Fantasy Pack)

I'm not sure how many sets people expect out of a successful product.

Also, for a long time, Genesis Supersuit was one of the best ways to fix fits (Put supersuit on a figure, put clothes on the supersuit, make supersuit invisibile, adjust shape)

Nowadays you have Fit Control and others, and the Ultra Bodysuit (which loads a little faster, if nothing else)

 

 

RadioactiveLily

Serene Night said:

DAZ_Steve said:

It's interesting that several people in this thread have theorized that the real issue is that there is more marketing and promotion of females and female content.  The reality however, is that as a percentage of the character's launched by Daz, a higher percentage are male than used to be (nearly 50%.)  When looking ateffort to produce the male is the same as the female.  We continue to do this because we hear you, and know there is a demand.  But, to think that thiS demand is equal or close is not true

I actually don't think enough is done to promote male content or figures. It isn't a conspiracy it is what I see.  In fact the promotion I see is so overwhelmingly female with male registering a blip now and then. Most of the adverts and such are mostly female. 

Go to the Instagram account and check out the content on your feed. Check the ads that appar on various site. Check out daz main page most of the time?

If you want to attract artists who render men and buy male content you don't promote women  only content and female content 24/7

edit: I will say your Facebook page is better than your Instagram account. But I think you are still missing some understanding of what could be done more to showcase male figures.

 

This has been my complaint in past threads as well.  Daz (and all the storefronts, really) could do more to promote and generate just a general interest in male content.  Things like the Raining Men contest are a good idea, and should be done more often.  And it needs to be front-page news.

Daywalker Designs

If they create the advertisements but the ad companies either don't feed them as often as one featuring a female, or don't use them at all, how is it DAZ3D's fault?

rampart_1576840087

More Girls, Girls...girls in the shop today.  Nothing there for me.

Enjoy...LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO1r9zn0wOk

evilded777

daywalker03 said:

If they create the advertisements but the ad companies either don't feed them as often as one featuring a female, or don't use them at all, how is it DAZ3D's fault?

A great deal of the ads are not random served, they are chosen specifically. And there is a predominance of ads featuring females.

I speak from experience.

Oso3D

As for the overall topic, there are two contrasting points.

One, most of us don't realize the actual numbers, and how poorly male products sell.

Two, confirmation bias is an incredibly real and well-studied phenomenon, and it's VERY easy to keep feeding a truth to be far bigger than it might have to be.

 

 

jardine

SickleYield said:

For a while we were able to use bundle sales to subsidize male versions by increasing overall sales (Beautiful Skin, Ball Joint Doll G3, etc.), but Daz isn't accepting two-item bundles any more so that's no longer really possible.

ohh...i'm sorry to hear that.

i was looking high and low for the 'The Blue Ones' Male + Female bundle when those were released, to no avail... 

thanks for clearing up that mystery.  : )

Novica

evilded777 said:

daywalker03 said:

If they create the advertisements but the ad companies either don't feed them as often as one featuring a female, or don't use them at all, how is it DAZ3D's fault?

A great deal of the ads are not random served, they are chosen specifically. And there is a predominance of ads featuring females.

I speak from experience.

I don't think I've ever seen an ad on websites that have a male model for Daz. There are the barely clad females plastered all over the place.   So if males are marketed 50% of the time,  I'm going to keep an eye out for them.  

I'm liking the addition of more male figures! Thank you vendors!

 

Leana

timmins.william said:

nemesis10 said:

My impression was that the Genesis suit didn't sell very well; apparently there were going to be more sets for it but the few that were released didn't sell well either.

Really? It had 5 extra pack products (Supersuit Troopers, Mardi Gras Supersuit, Supersuit SciFi Pack, Supersuit Hero Pack, Supersuit Fantasy Pack)

Those were released at the same time as the suit though.

Oso3D

Leana: Ah, I stand corrected, sorry.

Well, _I_ like the heck out of them. ;)

 

jadegreenmaylin

I noticed that too

 

Daz does seem to carry mainly female products

Leana

timmins.william said:

Leana: Ah, I stand corrected, sorry.

Well, _I_ like the heck out of them. ;)

I beta-tested the supersuit at the time and I actually quite like them too :)

Serene Night

Super suit shaders are some of the best. I'd like to hear confirmation it didn't sell well from Daz because I don't know anyone who doesn't own  it. Regardless I think if an improved suit were made that was versatile enough to design modern superheroes like deadpool I suspect it would sell even if you couldn't sell the specific character costume.

evilded777

Serene Night said:

Super suit shaders are some of the best. I'd like to hear confirmation it didn't sell well from Daz because I don't know anyone who doesn't own  it. Regardless I think if an improved suit were made that was versatile enough to design modern superheroes like deadpool I suspect it would sell even if you couldn't sell the specific character costume.

I don't use it anywhere near as much as I would if things didn't come out looking similar so often. Great ideas, not always great implementation with things like the legs. And the fact that the materials didn't match up with the boots and belt add-ons.

Oso3D

One thing I like about using it and Ultra bodysuit is actually regular clothing.

scorpio

The Supersuit did have some sets released for it

http://www.daz3d.com/randall-lloyd

nelsonsmith

 

timmins.william said:

As for the overall topic, there are two contrasting points.

One, most of us don't realize the actual numbers, and how poorly male products sell.

Two, confirmation bias is an incredibly real and well-studied phenomenon, and it's VERY easy to keep feeding a truth to be far bigger than it might have to be.

It would be interesting to actually see someone do the math on how well male figures like Lee 7 or Kimo 7 actually do,  taking into account that males figures don't typically tend to have several characters coming out each week that require those base figures, which does indeed stack the deck so to speak. 

How many figures came out this week that require Victoria 7, as opposed to figures that required any of the male figures?  It seems that without a comparison like that to constrast you can't definitively make the claim a lot of people are trying to put forth.

Just curiousity, but it's never going to happen.  Daz is a great piece of software, and it's PA's are phenonmenal with the quality products they offer, but at  some point if you're an artist who wants to use Daz you must resign yourself to the fact that you will eventually have to take it up a notch and become a creator, since some things have to be done with the idea of profit not being your sole motivation.  We need more of  that mindset that helped to make Blender the software that it has become, but we don't have to put that burden on PA's we simply need to do it if we want it that badly.

 

 

 

wsterdan

nelsonsmith said:

 

timmins.william said:

As for the overall topic, there are two contrasting points.

One, most of us don't realize the actual numbers, and how poorly male products sell.

Two, confirmation bias is an incredibly real and well-studied phenomenon, and it's VERY easy to keep feeding a truth to be far bigger than it might have to be.

It would be interesting to actually see someone do the math on how well male figures like Lee 7 or Kimo 7 actually do,  taking into account that males figures don't typically tend to have several characters coming out each week that require those base figures, which does indeed stack the deck so to speak. 

3DUniverse has stated (more than once, but recently on these forums)  that when he releases a male and female character, the female sells roughly three times as much as the male. They're usually toon characters, which shouldn't matter as one would assume that  the male/female ratio should carry over whether they're toon or realistic, especially when they're a matching style and because the same vendor creates them (so the quality is identical).

An example of actual numbers: 

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/1232291/#Comment_1232291

That said, if anyone really, really believes that there's an untapped goldmine for male product, then they (maybe with a friend or two) should hire someone to build them the product they think will sell and then release it into the store and reap the profits.

If they're unwilling because they feel it's too much of a gamble, well, that's pretty much how most of the PAs feel. 

-- Walt Sterdan

 

Daywalker Designs

nelsonsmith said:

Just curiousity, but it's never going to happen.  Daz is a great piece of software, and it's PA's are phenonmenal with the quality products they offer, but at  some point if you're an artist who wants to use Daz you must resign yourself to the fact that you will eventually have to take it up a notch and become a creator, since some things have to be done with the idea of profit not being your sole motivation.  We need more of  that mindset that helped to make Blender the software that it has become, but we don't have to put that burden on PA's we simply need to do it if we want it that badly.

 

 

 

Being able to pay bills and eat on a semi-regular basis factors in more than profit does for a lot of PA's; at least that seems to be the point that SickleYield keeps trying to make.

j cade

Girls, (Do, do, do do do) all I really want is girls
(Do, do, do do do) And in the morning it's girls
(Do, do, do do do) Cause in the evening it's girls

(Do, do, do do do)

 

Sorry every time I see the thread title thats what gets stuck in my head

 

Linton

timmins.william said:

L'Adair: The tricky thing is fighting confirmation bias. 'Everyone knows' male content doesn't sell, so when some PA makes a shirt or whatever that people don't like/don't need/seems overpriced, the PA concludes 'well, nuts to you guys, male content doesn't sell, see??'

 

It would help if they made the morphs that go with the shirt that match the level of morphs female clothing had. I realise it is a time investment, and if it doesn't sell well, why put time into it, but it's a catch 22. 

I often don't buy female clothes, but put females into male clothing, espcially in the realms of sci fi and fantasy. Women in armour are badas$$, and Joan of Arc still one of the best inspirations.

I have purchased almost all new male content that has arrived, because I support the content I am wanting to see and use.

nelsonsmith

 

daywalker03 said:

Being able to pay bills and eat on a semi-regular basis factors in more than profit does for a lot of PA's; at least that seems to be the point that SickleYield keeps trying to make.

This is very true which is why it's probably going to have to be done by people who aren't relying on Daz for their daily bread.  Again it's like Hollywood, there comes a point when you are unable, or unwilling  to take risks.  That's where independents pick up the slack.

But also realize a person who discovers that they need to create the content they want to see is not going to be churning out quality content the next day.  Anybody reading  this thread who has been motivated to start learning content creation will probably not be putting anything on the market for a good year or two if they have no previous experience in CG.

So to people who want this content, I'm just saying wait.  It's coming.

Linton

SickleYield said:

DAZ_Steve said:

But, to think that this demand is equal or close to it is not true.  As such, it makes sense that if someone needs to make a living as an artist, they will choose to sell something that has a lot more people interested to consume it. 

This is not to say this is my (or Daz's) preference, or stance.  It's just telling you what the results and numbers say.

We do get conspiracy theorists periodically, lol.  But the fact is that business is business.  On that top 20 list I mentioned earlier are also featured Faces of Asia (but only the female version) and Big Beautiful Genesis 2 Female (Big Boys G2M did nowhere near as well).  I keep making male versions as much as I can, because I like to, but it is a fact that they don't move the same traffic when there are two equivalent versions of the same thing.  For a while we were able to use bundle sales to subsidize male versions by increasing overall sales (Beautiful Skin, Ball Joint Doll G3, etc.), but Daz isn't accepting two-item bundles any more so that's no longer really possible.

I want to take this opportunity to thank you and other PAs who do make this content. While it might not sell well, and PAs might not get a return on their investment, these items are so very welcomed by those of us after such unique content. We support it!

Linton

RCDeschene said:

Erdehel said:

fastbike1 said:

Actually, it is. Daz_Steve himself here even once revealed that we're going to get many more males this year with female releases. We know that we're getting a new conterpart to Aiko, Tween Julie is getting one, and we still have yet to see which lady Lucian 7 will escourt.

I am excited for Aiko 7s counterpart. Maybe finally Hiro 7? May be -fingers crossed-

The new male figures of late have been great, and I have nabbed almost all of them.