Loading...
> >

You've been heard. Response re: 4.9 and Encryption

1…2021232526…61

Comments

  • Daz Jack TomalinDaz Jack Tomalin Posts: 13,810
    acanthis said:
    Havos said:
    acanthis said:

    The thing is, with the Toll Booth, I was also ready to pick up that rather handy street scene. I had them both in the cart. Then, when I saw that the Toll Booth was DRM'd - out they both went. Because, without speculating, the status of products in store has been seen to change when mistakes are made, and mistakes sometimes are not spotted right away.

    I can understand your sentiment, but it would be a shame to miss on on the street scene, which is so worth the money compared to many other products here and elsewhere. The PA of the street scene had no control over the unfortunate timing of his release with this crippled freebie.

    True, but it's a DAZ original, so the PA has already received his cut. I plan to wait the requisite 48 hours to allow any mistakes to be corrected and then, if its status remains the same, I will probably purchase it.

    By all means wait - thats fine... however I can say the product install types (Connect, DIM and Manual) are correct.

  • lx_2807502lx_2807502 Posts: 2,996
    edited February 2016
    tl155180 said:

    Just be aware that, whatever your justification, like Jack says if you pick up this item (even for free) then you are indicating to Daz that despite all your negative feelings towards DRM you are, in fact, happy to accept it after all.

    Absolutely this. Corprorate money Daz may only look at "sales" (even freebies.) Grabbing it free, even for later, would perhaps be considered maybe to not for sure not saying it's fact okay look like a sale on charts that can't give context to each person's reasoning for clicking it.

    Edited for the sake of the IANALs

    Post edited by lx_2807502 on
  • nobody1954nobody1954 Posts: 933

    I've been a Platinum Club member since the start. It is up for renewal next month. Closing the Platinum Club discussion was unfortunate, since it is a Platinum Club issue. Considering my options.

  • jpb06tjpb06t Posts: 272
    Nath said:

    I sort of had to laugh at the item description, given its encrypted status: "Stop and pay your toll to advance further." Says it all.

    Anyway, thanks, but no, thanks.

    Dear DAZ, mocking customers is not a wise marketing policy.

  • acanthisacanthis Posts: 604
    Jack Tomalin said:
    acanthis said:
    Havos said:
    acanthis said:

    The thing is, with the Toll Booth, I was also ready to pick up that rather handy street scene. I had them both in the cart. Then, when I saw that the Toll Booth was DRM'd - out they both went. Because, without speculating, the status of products in store has been seen to change when mistakes are made, and mistakes sometimes are not spotted right away.

    I can understand your sentiment, but it would be a shame to miss on on the street scene, which is so worth the money compared to many other products here and elsewhere. The PA of the street scene had no control over the unfortunate timing of his release with this crippled freebie.

    True, but it's a DAZ original, so the PA has already received his cut. I plan to wait the requisite 48 hours to allow any mistakes to be corrected and then, if its status remains the same, I will probably purchase it.

    By all means wait - thats fine... however I can say the product install types (Connect, DIM and Manual) are correct.

    It's difficult for purchasers, though - when we have seen mistakes in the past that sometimes take a while to be rectified. I'm not doubting your word, Jack, but in these uncertain times one has to exercise additional caution so as not to be caught out by plans hatched in dark places.

  • HeadwaxHeadwax Posts: 10,385
    nobody1954 said:

    I've been a Platinum Club member since the start. It is up for renewal next month. Closing the Platinum Club discussion was unfortunate, since it is a Platinum Club issue. Considering my options.

    agreed

    you need to reopen that discussion in the PC forum

     

  • Daz Jack TomalinDaz Jack Tomalin Posts: 13,810
    acanthis said:
    Jack Tomalin said:
    acanthis said:
    Havos said:
    acanthis said:

    The thing is, with the Toll Booth, I was also ready to pick up that rather handy street scene. I had them both in the cart. Then, when I saw that the Toll Booth was DRM'd - out they both went. Because, without speculating, the status of products in store has been seen to change when mistakes are made, and mistakes sometimes are not spotted right away.

    I can understand your sentiment, but it would be a shame to miss on on the street scene, which is so worth the money compared to many other products here and elsewhere. The PA of the street scene had no control over the unfortunate timing of his release with this crippled freebie.

    True, but it's a DAZ original, so the PA has already received his cut. I plan to wait the requisite 48 hours to allow any mistakes to be corrected and then, if its status remains the same, I will probably purchase it.

    By all means wait - thats fine... however I can say the product install types (Connect, DIM and Manual) are correct.

    It's difficult for purchasers, though - when we have seen mistakes in the past that sometimes take a while to be rectified. I'm not doubting your word, Jack, but in these uncertain times one has to exercise additional caution so as not to be caught out by plans hatched in dark places.

    I think it's unfair to say it was plan - as far as I know it was a genuine mistake recitified. However, in that event happening again you do have the option of a full refund as per the 30 day guarantee.

  • Daz Jack TomalinDaz Jack Tomalin Posts: 13,810
    head wax said:
    nobody1954 said:

    I've been a Platinum Club member since the start. It is up for renewal next month. Closing the Platinum Club discussion was unfortunate, since it is a Platinum Club issue. Considering my options.

    agreed

    you need to reopen that discussion in the PC forum

     

    I'm following this thread closely as I have all the others.. we still don't need more than one thread on the encryption stuff.

  • lx_2807502lx_2807502 Posts: 2,996
    Jack Tomalin said:
    acanthis said:
    Jack Tomalin said:
    acanthis said:
    Havos said:
    acanthis said:

    The thing is, with the Toll Booth, I was also ready to pick up that rather handy street scene. I had them both in the cart. Then, when I saw that the Toll Booth was DRM'd - out they both went. Because, without speculating, the status of products in store has been seen to change when mistakes are made, and mistakes sometimes are not spotted right away.

    I can understand your sentiment, but it would be a shame to miss on on the street scene, which is so worth the money compared to many other products here and elsewhere. The PA of the street scene had no control over the unfortunate timing of his release with this crippled freebie.

    True, but it's a DAZ original, so the PA has already received his cut. I plan to wait the requisite 48 hours to allow any mistakes to be corrected and then, if its status remains the same, I will probably purchase it.

    By all means wait - thats fine... however I can say the product install types (Connect, DIM and Manual) are correct.

    It's difficult for purchasers, though - when we have seen mistakes in the past that sometimes take a while to be rectified. I'm not doubting your word, Jack, but in these uncertain times one has to exercise additional caution so as not to be caught out by plans hatched in dark places.

    I think it's unfair to say it was plan - as far as I know it was a genuine mistake recitified. However, in that event happening again you do have the option of a full refund as per the 30 day guarantee.

    Also the bundle did say from the getgo it was going to be encrypted, even if there were mistakes on some of the included items. 

  • cherpenbeckcherpenbeck Posts: 1,416
    edited February 2016

    The minute I saw it toll booth was in my shopping cart. Then I had the good idea to  look for it's status. Encrypted. Deleted it as fast as possible.

    Okay, DAZ folks, this convinced me not to prolong my soon expiring PC+ membership. Which, in return, will mean drastically fewer sales, (without PC+ incentives I'll buy much less). The day

    1) my wishlist is cleared

    and

    2) DAZ offers no more new releases without encryption

    I'm gone.

    Jack Tomalin, please understand this is not against you or other very helpful people here. I appreciate your work. This is just against the decicion of a corporate I won't support, no matter how lovely the freebees are which try to entice me.

    Post edited by cherpenbeck on
  • acanthisacanthis Posts: 604
    edited February 2016
    Jack Tomalin said:
    acanthis said:
    Jack Tomalin said:
    acanthis said:
    Havos said:
    acanthis said:

    The thing is, with the Toll Booth, I was also ready to pick up that rather handy street scene. I had them both in the cart. Then, when I saw that the Toll Booth was DRM'd - out they both went. Because, without speculating, the status of products in store has been seen to change when mistakes are made, and mistakes sometimes are not spotted right away.

    I can understand your sentiment, but it would be a shame to miss on on the street scene, which is so worth the money compared to many other products here and elsewhere. The PA of the street scene had no control over the unfortunate timing of his release with this crippled freebie.

    True, but it's a DAZ original, so the PA has already received his cut. I plan to wait the requisite 48 hours to allow any mistakes to be corrected and then, if its status remains the same, I will probably purchase it.

    By all means wait - thats fine... however I can say the product install types (Connect, DIM and Manual) are correct.

    It's difficult for purchasers, though - when we have seen mistakes in the past that sometimes take a while to be rectified. I'm not doubting your word, Jack, but in these uncertain times one has to exercise additional caution so as not to be caught out by plans hatched in dark places.

    I think it's unfair to say it was plan - as far as I know it was a genuine mistake recitified. However, in that event happening again you do have the option of a full refund as per the 30 day guarantee.

    The problem with refunds is that that they can be restricted by additional conditions imposed by sales. You know, no refund if you bought this because you also bought that and that as a part of deal X. But this is speculation now and such things must not be spoken of.

    Post edited by acanthis on
  • bighbigh Posts: 8,147
    kyoto kid said:

    ...would have rather it had been the monthly freebie, this way they could also test it out for a month, not just a week.

    Besides, I find the toll booth is far more useful than a bunch of fantasy shields.

    to right you are !

    Daz never learns - just more bull to put up with .

  • lx_2807502lx_2807502 Posts: 2,996

    I'm kind of shocked how many people feel so strongly about DRM and aren't looking extremely closely at every single product and daily offer / banner that's being released before putting it in their cart, whether they want it or not o.o

    (This is not criticising anyone; merely an observation based on user posts)

  • acanthisacanthis Posts: 604
    lx said:

    I'm kind of shocked how many people feel so strongly about DRM and aren't looking extremely closely at every single product and daily offer / banner that's being released before putting it in their cart, whether they want it or not o.o

    (This is not criticising anyone; merely an observation based on user posts)

    I think that probably says more about the effectiveness of DAZ's strategy than people's views on DRM. I am probably one of the biggest anti-DRM customers; I cannot be convinced, will not be convinced, because I just don't care whether DRM works or not; I am only interested in whether the product is one that I want to buy (and I won't buy DRM). But even I almost got caught out by the Toll Booth freebie!

  • lx_2807502lx_2807502 Posts: 2,996
    acanthis said:
    lx said:

    I'm kind of shocked how many people feel so strongly about DRM and aren't looking extremely closely at every single product and daily offer / banner that's being released before putting it in their cart, whether they want it or not o.o

    (This is not criticising anyone; merely an observation based on user posts)

    I think that probably says more about the effectiveness of DAZ's strategy than people's views on DRM. I am probably one of the biggest anti-DRM customers; I cannot be convinced, will not be convinced, because I just don't care whether DRM works or not; I am only interested in whether the product is one that I want to buy (and I won't buy DRM). But even I almost got caught out by the Toll Booth freebie!

    Maybe it's just because I'm used to not having money at the time to buy things (mostly because of having spent wayyy too much on impulse that I'm still trying to catch up on) so I'm used to window shopping everything and looking at every detail for clues on future products, etc. xD

  • IppotamusIppotamus Posts: 1,580
    edited February 2016

    I was surprised the PC+ comment was closed.

    It is more than an encryption problem.

    It is now a PC+ rewards and terms problem.  I think that is a different discussion altogether and one that should be held in the PC+ forum between the members.  Not buried in this free for all.

    Post edited by Ippotamus on
  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,943

    nonononono

    Somebody wants to guess my feelings about encryption and the weekly freebie (with purchase, as I LUCKILY am no PC member anymore?)

    cryingcryingcryingcryingcrying

    I LIKED DAZ!

     

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,841
    edited February 2016
    lx said:

    I'm kind of shocked how many people feel so strongly about DRM and aren't looking extremely closely at every single product and daily offer / banner that's being released before putting it in their cart, whether they want it or not o.o

    (This is not criticising anyone; merely an observation based on user posts)

    ...this was not expected with the usual weekly freebie. I only spotted it myself after it was in my cart as well, since I usually click the cart icon from the thumbnail on store page for freebies. This is an old practise many of us have.

    It should also have been indicated in the newsletter.  This is why an icon on the thumbnail would be really helpful.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • Daz Jack TomalinDaz Jack Tomalin Posts: 13,810
    edited February 2016
    Ippotamus said:

    I was surprised the PC+ comment was closed.

    It is more than an encryption problem.

    It is now a PC+ rewards and terms problem.  I think that is a different discussion altogether and one that should be held in the PC+ forum between the members.  Not buried in this free for all.

    It will be.. at length I am sure. When the time is right.

    However, given this is a just a test and not the 'norm' now isn't the time to really sepeculate on the future of the PC and encrypted content.  I'm here, I'm reading the posts.. and I will be looking at the numbers with the rest of the team.

    Post edited by Daz Jack Tomalin on
  • acanthisacanthis Posts: 604
    lx said:
    acanthis said:
    lx said:

    I'm kind of shocked how many people feel so strongly about DRM and aren't looking extremely closely at every single product and daily offer / banner that's being released before putting it in their cart, whether they want it or not o.o

    (This is not criticising anyone; merely an observation based on user posts)

    I think that probably says more about the effectiveness of DAZ's strategy than people's views on DRM. I am probably one of the biggest anti-DRM customers; I cannot be convinced, will not be convinced, because I just don't care whether DRM works or not; I am only interested in whether the product is one that I want to buy (and I won't buy DRM). But even I almost got caught out by the Toll Booth freebie!

    Maybe it's just because I'm used to not having money at the time to buy things (mostly because of having spent wayyy too much on impulse that I'm still trying to catch up on) so I'm used to window shopping everything and looking at every detail for clues on future products, etc. xD

    Good point. In the case of the Toll Booth I had a genuine, though not immediate, need for it, and the price was right. Still, the world is full of Toll Booths ...

    The street, I will admit, was just a nice to have, as it's difficult to find English-style streets and houses.

  • HeadwaxHeadwax Posts: 10,385
    Ippotamus said:

    I was surprised the PC+ comment was closed.

    It is more than an encryption problem.

    It is now a PC+ rewards and terms problem.  I think that is a different discussion altogether and one that should be held in the PC+ forum between the members.  Not buried in this free for all.

    Agreed. I amongst many others put the toll booth in my cart accidentally. That's something the marketing people need to realise. That's if they really do want the truth ;) 

  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 2,203
    tl155180 said:
    acanthis said:
    Jack Tomalin said:
    lx said:

    I think the merger needs a bit more cleaning up to make sense >.<

    Mods are understandably rather busy at the moment - please be patient until they get around to it :)

    Some of us might question the rationale behind the last merger anyway, if we were prone to speculation. I suppose it does keep all of the anti-DRM sentiment nicely pigeon-holed away in one thread.

    Probably also the reason why they un-stickied this thread. They're hoping to bury it and hide all the negative publicity wink.

    +! They will humor us until such time that this gets to loud and then the thread will be closed and any mention of DRM will be treated by the powers that be and other fanatical daz fans as being a dead horse and say we need to put our foil hats back on and to get back in the closet and close the door. 

  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 2,203
    namffuak said:

    I'm planning to pick the toll booth up - I want to see if it is available as a stand-alone connect download, for one. Also, I managed (just) to get my off-line system to tie into the store, so it (presumably) authenticated. I want to check that out. There truly is no viable way for me to use connect from home; I'm using my dial-up box as a router to make the connection, and that is just barely viable. And, thanks to the wonderfull people at Frontier, my dial-up has been wonky for the last 4 months. I now seem to be getting stable connections, but I no longer get 50.6 Kb/sec; I'm getting 31.2 Kb/sec. An effective download speed of about 7 MB per HOUR.

    (Anyone want to by a house in the middle of a wooded area?) :-(

     

    I will trade you my internet connection in Iraq that isn't much better it has taken over an out to download 15MB

  • tl155180tl155180 Posts: 994
    shadowhawk1 said:
    tl155180 said:
    acanthis said:
    Jack Tomalin said:
    lx said:

    I think the merger needs a bit more cleaning up to make sense >.<

    Mods are understandably rather busy at the moment - please be patient until they get around to it :)

    Some of us might question the rationale behind the last merger anyway, if we were prone to speculation. I suppose it does keep all of the anti-DRM sentiment nicely pigeon-holed away in one thread.

    Probably also the reason why they un-stickied this thread. They're hoping to bury it and hide all the negative publicity wink.

    +! They will humor us until such time that this gets to loud and then the thread will be closed and any mention of DRM will be treated by the powers that be and other fanatical daz fans as being a dead horse and say we need to put our foil hats back on and to get back in the closet and close the door. 

    My foil hat is in the shop getting repaired. Something fell on it wink

  • gregbogregbo Posts: 39

    Well, goodbye Platinum Club! Like many others, I had the toll booth in my cart... Luckily I checked (as I am making sure to avoid anything that is "Encrapted") so I removed it from my cart With the quickness. I could have used the toll booth, too... But getting any item in an encrypted format just isn't worth it. I used to do a LOT of impulse buying here, but now I always pause to make sure things in my cart aren't encrypted. My content budget gets spent elsewhere lately. 

  • gregbogregbo Posts: 39
    tl155180 said:
    head wax said:
    Ippotamus said:

    I was surprised the PC+ comment was closed.

    It is more than an encryption problem.

    It is now a PC+ rewards and terms problem.  I think that is a different discussion altogether and one that should be held in the PC+ forum between the members.  Not buried in this free for all.

    Agreed. I amongst many others put the toll booth in my cart accidentally. That's something the marketing people need to realise. That's if they really do want the truth ;) 

    They don't want the truth. If they wanted that then they would test the waters with a full-priced item. What they're looking for is reassurance.

    +1

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,841

    ...+1

  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 2,203
    Jack Tomalin said:
    Ippotamus said:

    I was surprised the PC+ comment was closed.

    It is more than an encryption problem.

    It is now a PC+ rewards and terms problem.  I think that is a different discussion altogether and one that should be held in the PC+ forum between the members.  Not buried in this free for all.

    It will be.. at length I am sure. When the time is right.

    However, given this is a just a test and not the 'norm' now isn't the time to really sepeculate on the future of the PC and encrypted content.  I'm here, I'm reading the posts.. and I will be looking at the numbers with the rest of the team.

    My question to you is this, If the numbers come back as a significant negative what can be done about it? 4.9 ALREADY has DRM encryption written into it, do you think they will really just shut it all off? Also what are the chances they will even tell us if the numbers show that people don't approve of DRM? 

     

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    L'Adair said:
     
    nicstt said:
    Call DRMed products, what they are: rented. Price them accordingly and fix their duration, and that may change.

    DRM or not, we license the products and certain restrictions apply. We're lucky these are royalty free and we only pay a one time licensing fee. Anyway, it could be argued that licensing is a form of rental, regardless of the length of the time the licensing covers, as we do not own the products we "purchase."

    True, but the rest of my post discusses that, so perhaps don't take quotes out of context. :) I said in effect we own it, with none DRM products - we just have to consider the usage under the EULA.

     

    I'm not a fan of DRM/encryption, but I'm not insulted DAZ is taking steps against piracy. It has always been that the actions of a few result in changes that affect all. Are you insulted when you're asked to show your passport when traveling out of country? Are you insulted when asked to show proof of insurance when you're in a fender-bender? Are you insulted when the checkout clerk asks to see your ID when paying by check?

    Regardless of the end result of DRM/encrypted content on DAZ, utilizing it is not a slap in the face of honest customers. Any business has the right, perhaps the obligation as well, to shape their policies to minimize loss. If a company doesn't mitigate their losses, it's a safe bet they won't last. I like DAZ Studio. I like the products I license from DAZ3D. I spend almost all of my 3D budget at DAZ3D. And I don't want to see them go out of business.

    I have no plans to purchase Encrypted DAZ Connect products at this time. That decision is based on the fact I am not using 4.9 and won't be until I have a more robust computer. By that time, I expect DAZ will have determined whether or not DRM/encrypted content is a viable solution to the piracy problem. And it is our problem as much as DAZ's. The higher their losses, the more money honest customers will spend in the form of higher prices and lower sales discounts. The same happens in brick and mortar stores, too. It's hard to keep your customers happy if you go out of business.

    And for the record, I really want that Trenchcoat, too!

    Of course Daz has right to protect their intellectual property. A new freebie is Connect only, so I've requested a refund on it as I didn't notice; not an infringement on my rights, but a control on how I use the product that is more stringent than it used to be.

    We'll see if Daz pass on some of their savings to their customers - other companies don't (another experience of what Companies do), but maybe Daz will be different. Of course, trying to figure out if they are passing on any savings will be tough due to all the various sales that are always in motion.

  • renecyberdocrenecyberdoc Posts: 61

    well i dont take it then regardless if its free or not i dont give a ..................................you know what i mean.

This discussion has been closed.