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You've been heard. Response re: 4.9 and Encryption

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  • acanthisacanthis Posts: 604
    Jack Tomalin said:
    lx said:

    I think the merger needs a bit more cleaning up to make sense >.<

    Mods are understandably rather busy at the moment - please be patient until they get around to it :)

    Some of us might question the rationale behind the last merger anyway, if we were prone to speculation. I suppose it does keep all of the anti-DRM sentiment nicely pigeon-holed away in one thread.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,843
    edited February 2016

    ...would have rather it had been the monthly freebie, this way they could also test it out for a month, not just a week.

    Besides, I find the toll booth is far more useful than a bunch of fantasy shields.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • Daz Jack TomalinDaz Jack Tomalin Posts: 13,810
    Havos said:

    I can not see what you can read into this myself, I mean it is free, so many people will pop it into their cart regardless of how they feel about encrypted content. However it does give them another reason to at least try out DAZ connect, which I assume is the real purpose behind this.

    Well, if DRM is as bad as the forum threads would make it appear, there should still be a noticable difference in downloads.

  • tl155180tl155180 Posts: 994
    edited February 2016
    acanthis said:
    Jack Tomalin said:
    lx said:

    I think the merger needs a bit more cleaning up to make sense >.<

    Mods are understandably rather busy at the moment - please be patient until they get around to it :)

    Some of us might question the rationale behind the last merger anyway, if we were prone to speculation. I suppose it does keep all of the anti-DRM sentiment nicely pigeon-holed away in one thread.

    Probably also the reason why they un-stickied this thread. They're hoping to bury it and hide all the negative publicity wink.

    Post edited by tl155180 on
  • acanthisacanthis Posts: 604
    kyoto kid said:
    L'Adair said:
     
    ashley9803 said:

    Many PAs would be well aware of their expected sales and would know if excrypting their products is enhancing or restricting sales. Not that there has been much to go by yet, as you say.

    The complaints that matter the most aren't going to come from the forums and grunts like us, but when or if vendors jack up about losing money on their products, if that actually occurs.

    As all the encrypted products to date have been Daz Originals, the PAs have been paid and it's DAZ taking all the risk of lost sales.

     ...and this is why I contend DRM could potentially reduce the value of PC+ membership should all DO's end up encrypted. Were Daz also to take this path with PC+ and freebies, I would see little point in continuing my membership.  These are the two categories which are discounted for members.  PA items only receive discounts on initial release (30%) and/or when there is a sale and are open to all customers.

    SassyWench said:

    Weekly freebie is out.. nice toll booth. But guess what? Encrypted! Nice, Daz :(

    ...just what I was afraid of.

    I agree that DRM'd freebies for PC+ members will considerably reduce the value of PC+. I had thought that this might be the case and so took the precaution of cancelling my membership on DRM Day; I'm just using up what's left now.

    But it is 100% NO to a DRM'd freebie from me. A freebie is not free if it forces you to take an action to get it (install DS 4.9).

  • namffuaknamffuak Posts: 4,403

    I'm planning to pick the toll booth up - I want to see if it is available as a stand-alone connect download, for one. Also, I managed (just) to get my off-line system to tie into the store, so it (presumably) authenticated. I want to check that out. There truly is no viable way for me to use connect from home; I'm using my dial-up box as a router to make the connection, and that is just barely viable. And, thanks to the wonderfull people at Frontier, my dial-up has been wonky for the last 4 months. I now seem to be getting stable connections, but I no longer get 50.6 Kb/sec; I'm getting 31.2 Kb/sec. An effective download speed of about 7 MB per HOUR.

    (Anyone want to by a house in the middle of a wooded area?) :-(

  • acanthisacanthis Posts: 604

    The thing is, with the Toll Booth, I was also ready to pick up that rather handy street scene. I had them both in the cart. Then, when I saw that the Toll Booth was DRM'd - out they both went. Because, without speculating, the status of products in store has been seen to change when mistakes are made, and mistakes sometimes are not spotted right away.

  • Daz Jack TomalinDaz Jack Tomalin Posts: 13,810
    acanthis said:

    Some of us might question the rationale behind the last merger anyway, if we were prone to speculation. I suppose it does keep all of the anti-DRM sentiment nicely pigeon-holed away in one thread.

    Speculation.. in this thread? ;)

    As someone who reads most of the forums, multiple threads on the same topic make it a lot more harder to keep up - you often also get the same people posting the same/similar comments in those various threads which can dilute other posts.

     

  • PetercatPetercat Posts: 2,321
    edited February 2016

    I just hope that Daz is only counting actual downloads.

    I might have "purchased" this one, as I am in the habit of snagging all of the freebies without pulling their pages up, on the philosophy "Well, I might not need it now, but who knows?"

    So this could easily have counted as a purchase.

    So, where's my weekly freebie, as I cannot use this on my art computer (not online)?

     

    I still think a better idea would be my trenchcoat suggestion. Dammit, I really want that trenchcoat!

    And now I want the tollbooth, too.

    Dammit, Daz!

    And mark the freakin' ICONS as encrypted, okay? It won't hurt the DRM scheme, but it WILL help the customers!

    Post edited by Petercat on
  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,573

    At least the toll booth is one of those pointlessly encypted items, in the sense, it would be trivial to export out for use in other programs (or to put on a pirate site), so why upset a bunch of people over nothing, very strange.

  • acanthisacanthis Posts: 604
    Jack Tomalin said:
    acanthis said:

    Some of us might question the rationale behind the last merger anyway, if we were prone to speculation. I suppose it does keep all of the anti-DRM sentiment nicely pigeon-holed away in one thread.

    Speculation.. in this thread? ;)

    As someone who reads most of the forums, multiple threads on the same topic make it a lot more harder to keep up - you often also get the same people posting the same/similar comments in those various threads which can dilute other posts.

     

    Yes, but you have merged threads that were actually on different topics. The original thread was Steve Spencer's response outlining his DRM plans and the response to customer concerns. The thread about the Toll Booth was about ... the Toll Booth, even if it was the fact that it was DRM'd.

    Can't you see why there is so much speculation going on?

  • acanthisacanthis Posts: 604
    Petercat said:

    **SNIP**

    I still think a better idea would be my trenchcoat suggestion. Dammit, I really want that trenchcoat!

    And now I want the tollbooth, too.

    Dammit, Daz!

    And mark the freakin' ICONS as encrypted, okay? It won't hurt the DRM scheme, but it WILL help the customers!

    I couldn't agree more. DRM'd products should show a large padlock icon in the bottom right corner of the store thumbnail.

  • caravellecaravelle Posts: 2,644

    Even if this may be only a test: In Germany, we have a law saying that any product you buy has to have the 'promised traits'. PC+ is a product you can buy. Maybe in the US a company is allowed to act at will with its customers, but this is not what I am used to. Also it is not very pleasant to see how quickly you hid my critical thread, burying it in this big one. sad

  • Cris PalominoCris Palomino Posts: 12,440

    The threads were remarking about the encryption of the product; they were not really discussing the Toll Booth.

  • acanthisacanthis Posts: 604
    caravelle said:

    **SNIP** Also it is not very pleasant to see how quickly you hid my critical thread, burying it in this big one. sad

    +1

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,843
    edited February 2016

    ...why not just create a separate DRM freebie and put it in the "Daz3D Freebies" page instead of using the normal weekly one.for the test?

    I also agree wtih Acanthis, there should be some sort of icon on the store page thumbnail fopr DRM only content.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • acanthisacanthis Posts: 604
    Cris Palomino said:

    The threads were remarking about the encryption of the product; they were not really discussing the Toll Booth.

    I think the OPs would beg to differ, but anyway the main title of the thread is still wrong, then. Because, as I said, this was originally Steve Spencer's response to the encryption issue. Now it has become a bucket for encryption discussions it should be renamed to something more appropriate!

  • Daz Jack TomalinDaz Jack Tomalin Posts: 13,810
    kyoto kid said:

    ...why not just create a separate DRM freebie instead of using the normal weekly one.for the test?

    I don't want to speak for marketing since I don't know.. but I assume it's because they want to keep everything the same to try and accurately compare.

  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,573
    acanthis said:

    The thing is, with the Toll Booth, I was also ready to pick up that rather handy street scene. I had them both in the cart. Then, when I saw that the Toll Booth was DRM'd - out they both went. Because, without speculating, the status of products in store has been seen to change when mistakes are made, and mistakes sometimes are not spotted right away.

    I can understand your sentiment, but it would be a shame to miss on on the street scene, which is so worth the money compared to many other products here and elsewhere. The PA of the street scene had no control over the unfortunate timing of his release with this crippled freebie.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,843
    Jack Tomalin said:
    kyoto kid said:

    ...why not just create a separate DRM freebie instead of using the normal weekly one.for the test?

    I don't want to speak for marketing since I don't know.. but I assume it's because they want to keep everything the same to try and accurately compare.

    ...as I mentioned, it reduces the value of the PC+ for many who do not wish to deal with encrypted content and/or install 4.9.  Basically we are "out" one freebie that is supposed to be a perk of being a member.

  • tl155180tl155180 Posts: 994
    kyoto kid said:

    ...why not just create a separate DRM freebie instead of using the normal weekly one.for the test?

    Because they are trying to get people to cave in by changing the items you would normally pick up without thinking about it. Basically, they know that if you refuse to take this item then you've lost out on something you used to have. Its a shrewd move.

  • acanthisacanthis Posts: 604
    Havos said:
    acanthis said:

    The thing is, with the Toll Booth, I was also ready to pick up that rather handy street scene. I had them both in the cart. Then, when I saw that the Toll Booth was DRM'd - out they both went. Because, without speculating, the status of products in store has been seen to change when mistakes are made, and mistakes sometimes are not spotted right away.

    I can understand your sentiment, but it would be a shame to miss on on the street scene, which is so worth the money compared to many other products here and elsewhere. The PA of the street scene had no control over the unfortunate timing of his release with this crippled freebie.

    True, but it's a DAZ original, so the PA has already received his cut. I plan to wait the requisite 48 hours to allow any mistakes to be corrected and then, if its status remains the same, I will probably purchase it.

  • PetercatPetercat Posts: 2,321
    edited February 2016
    Jack Tomalin said:
    kyoto kid said:

    ...why not just create a separate DRM freebie instead of using the normal weekly one.for the test?

    I don't want to speak for marketing since I don't know.. but I assume it's because they want to keep everything the same to try and accurately compare.

    The best way to compare would be to offer it later as unencrypted and see how many people who didn't download the encrypted one would snap it up.

    Have I mentioned yet how much I want that trenchcoat?

    Post edited by Petercat on
  • acanthisacanthis Posts: 604
    tl155180 said:
    kyoto kid said:

    ...why not just create a separate DRM freebie instead of using the normal weekly one.for the test?

    Because they are trying to get people to cave in by changing the items you would normally pick up without thinking about it. Basically, they know that if you refuse to take this item then you've lost out on something you used to have. Its a shrewd move.

    Agreed.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,843
    edited February 2016

    ...and one that helps to erode customer loyalty.

    I've been a PC member for almost 8 years here.  I (and many others) weathered changes, the more limited use coupons (one with a minimum purchase requirement) instead of the old vouchers,  the abandoning of 1.99$ price to a set discount on new PC+ items, and now finally DO and free content DRM only.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • StezzaStezza Posts: 8,737

    Seeing as the PC thread was closed off............ the freebie is no good for us PC Carrara users....

     

    cancelling PC as I type no

     

    again cheeky

  • Charlie JudgeCharlie Judge Posts: 13,241
    Jack Tomalin said:

    I assume it's to test the waters, as it was mentioned in one of the other threads -  weekly freebies do have a pretty consistent download rate so it would give a good indication to compare against.

    So yea, I wouldn't read anything more into this other than a test to see how it compares against previous downloads. While I'm here though, it's worth mentioning the monthly freebie is also out, and not encrytped.. so the sky isn't falling just yet :)

    Cheers!

    The weekly freebie is one the most important benefits to me of belonging to PC and I would love to have the beautiful Toll Booth. But encrypted connect is of absolutely no use to me. So, if is to be the new norm, I won't be renewing my membership.

  • tl155180tl155180 Posts: 994
    edited February 2016

    Just be aware that, whatever your justification, like Jack says if you pick up this item (even for free) then you are indicating to Daz that despite all your negative feelings towards DRM you are, in fact, happy to accept it after all.

    Post edited by tl155180 on
  • HeadwaxHeadwax Posts: 10,385
    edited February 2016
    Charlie Judge said:
    Jack Tomalin said:

    I assume it's to test the waters, as it was mentioned in one of the other threads -  weekly freebies do have a pretty consistent download rate so it would give a good indication to compare against.

    So yea, I wouldn't read anything more into this other than a test to see how it compares against previous downloads. While I'm here though, it's worth mentioning the monthly freebie is also out, and not encrytped.. so the sky isn't falling just yet :)

    Cheers!

    The weekly freebie is one the most important benefits to me of belonging to PC and I would love to have the beautiful Toll Booth. But encrypted connect is of absolutely no use to me. So, if is to be the new norm, I won't be renewing my membership.

    I can't really believe that we pay to be in  the PC and you have made the weekly 'freebie' daz connect only.

    I'm afraid that's just not good enough.

    And you must realise it otherwise you wouldn't have locked the thread specifically targeting this particular issue.

    Let me repeat:

    Just not good enough DAZ, you really do need to pull your socks up and your finger out if you want to keep your customer base,.

     

     

     

     

    Post edited by Headwax on
  • PetercatPetercat Posts: 2,321

    It appears that the street sceen will qualify you for the Gateway sale, even though it's not listed there.

This discussion has been closed.