No encrypted for me.
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Comments
Yes
Highly doubtful.
A lot of very strong views being expressed ... until recently I would have been ambivalent about the encryption, disturbed by use of DRM (which I will not have anything to do with) and concerned about Connect.
The encryption I can understandf the argument for, however I recrnly-ish raised a ticket over a product that was generating errors and it (the support ticket) was going round in circles. I opened the .duf and found the line in question with the invalid file reference and presnetedf that as evidence of the fault. Eventually it was accepted that there was a fault. With me unable to do that we would have got nowhere, I'd have thrown the toys out the pram and requested a refund.
For DRM - no. Just no. I'm old-schoool. I pay for something I damned well own it.
Connect - not happy with the re-jigging of where content goes and I like 'simple' applications. Having DS also able to download and install just muddies the waters, bloats the software and adds potential errors/issues not at all connected to what the main 'task' of DS is, to create andf render 3D images. With DIm and it's zips it is staggeringly simple to keep backup copies. With the downlaod and install INTO the contnet library the ONLY backup I have is of the entire damned structure every time and I'll be *ahem cough* whatevered if I am going to backup a HUGE amount of data whenever I download anything. All well and good to say, "oh yes, it's in the data/cloud directory", but that does not help me track down all the associated files for it to copy individually.
In general, and despite the general tone I think I have set, I am, sort of, in favour of where this is going, particularly with how metadata will be treated (if you use Connect in it's 'full-blown form'). Sadly, this REALLY should have bene happening with DIM from day one ... why, oh why, with an automated downlaod/install system such as DIM roll-in the metadta with the product meaning a download of the whole darned thing if a simple change/correction is made to the metdata?
If the point of DAZ Connect is to stop/cut down on piracy, what happens to those of us that do promotional work for DAZ vendors and received products legitimately directly from the vendors?
Its solveable I think, but I don't think they care. To my eyes theres a few ways to get the protection they want without excluding the normal use of Daz Studio or Daz's content.
One method would be to encode encryption codes in the content that excluded directory locations. Everything would work the same as before.
The other solution would be to stick stuff wherever, but create a series of files in the usual locations as normal. I could rearrange those files to my heart's content, but I'd have issues with updates. (If you think about it, this is what we are doing now.. I never touch texture directories or geometries.)
I also have no idea if I can access things like the original texture files, but I regularly solve problems that way. For instance, materials optimized for Daz or poser rarely work well with Reality or Octane. No amount of adjusting will clear it up, but tweaking say specularity contrast does wonders. Like so;
http://www.deviantart.com/art/Bethany-s-Eyes-584678187
I really have zero trust in database management. In this case its being added on top of another database called a 'File System'..
I double checked on this a bit and while the actual files themselves can't be moved around you can still organize content inside of Daz like before (except for the encrypted only content). So most of the content for now will still be manageable from the content library side of things. This probably isn't helpful for you if you are moving the files themselves though.
There is a new interface for the PAs to be able to send products their own products to people if they want that just adds it to that persons' account. This shouldn't negatively impact PAs and their ability to work with others or share their products they want to.
Maybe I download and install 4.9 on a separate PC, download free encrypted files, make scene, export scene, take it to old PC - would that work?
If not, well, I will not buy any encrypted content and stay with 4.8.
Call me paranoid, but I don't like my system calling home (no windows10, for the same reason), and I don't like DRM, and I don't like content of which I don't get the zip-file.
Besides there ist enough older content left I still wish to buy.
Greetings,
You can use 4.9 without using Connect. And it has good bugfixes, and new versions of the renderers, so you probably want to.
-- Morgan
Ditto ... nothing like getting a program "gift" [magazine], buying content for Vue and then finding out no, you can't do that ... can only use content bought through the company UNLESS a very expensive other edition was purchased. Forget it.
I've looked through the FAQ... I've watched the video. I still don't know what is happening or how it works. Maybe if I typed in capitals? :-)
I don't use Smart Content. I don't even know what it is.
What is the new directory structure for encrypted content? Is it the same or different.
What files are encrypted? (I don't mess with geometry or morphs, so have fun.)
Will I have free access to texture files in their original installed location? (I often edit materials or add alternates like Normals using Crazy Bump.)
Can I have a Test Library to test installs in, then move over to the real library?
Can I pick up and move directories used for my 'Content Library' pane? (This is a loaded question in that some content needs to have its directory names corrected in the dufs, and I identify and do that manually.)
i.e. Merge skyler and Rayn into a single directory of compatible materials and clothes.
C:\Daz 3D\My Library\People\Genesis 3 Female\Characters\Skyler&Rayn
It's software - it's technically possible. It may be less than simple to implement, but it's technically possible. Anyway I guess Fixmypcmike answered the questions, though I don't know if he officially works for/represents DAZ. So, thanks Fixmypcmike.
Mike is one of the mods as am I, RichardHaseltine, Chohole, Frank and Ann (Plat Club has their own). Those with Daz_ on their names are employees.
Just to start, I will not be updating to any version of DS that includes encryption or DRM. if DS 4.8 is my last version of DS, so be it.
Sorry, haven't read this thread much part the post quoted ... can't, too fuzzed, too much pain, but want to answer couple of points in this quoted post before I give up.
1 Re. encyption and my use:
I have been stiffed before with content of other kinds - music, books, whatnot - that were supposed to be ironclad 'you won't ever use lose use of them - all enentualities are covered' guaranteed by some big companies. but I lost them and swore I would never, ever, ever by DRMed encrypted content of any kind for anything ever again. I don't claim infallible knowledge of all possible future eventualities to be fully convinced by any arguments, however technical they claim to be, that no, with US you can't lose it even if the world is oblitereted by asteroid impact.
But I also have practcial reasons, Almost any day I'm using - or often preparing to use - DS I have content data .dsf files open in a text editor. I check things about the content much more quickly than loading them into DS (and without clogging the DS memory). I add features. I modify and customize (for my own use). I repurpose. And especially I track down bugs in the content, and oh are there bugs in the content. Yes, DAZ original content. and DAZ store PA content. I usually notice something is funny in DS, but it is (at least for me) often hard, taking a long time, or impossible, wasting a long time, to completely diagnose and fix the problem through the DS interface; but loading the appropriate .dsf files into a text editor (I use that Batch Convert pane in DS to decompress the compressed data files a LOT) I find, completely diagnose and fix the bugs in seconds. How commonly? Well, a DIM update popped up a couple of days ago with the fix I'd made in it for the bug in one G3F product I'd found and reported end of last week; and late last night I found another bug in the same product, and a variation of the same mistake in an associated product, diagnosed and fixed in minutes in my copy through looking at data .dsf files in my text editor, and I'll probably notify the PA later or tomorrow.
As I say, I have content data .dsf files open in a text editor to peruse, understand, modify, adapt and fix many, many days I use DS. I've had some open today. I had some open yesterday. i had some open every day last week and every day since. And I'm not giving that up. Encrytping them so i can't read and edit them removes vast swathes of the uses I get from products; and of course stops me finding and fixing the faults - usually on the fly in seconds as i am using something so I can go on using it rigth then, not waiting days, weeks, months or often never for DAZ or PAs to fix things.
So I won't buy encrypted content on two grounds. one is principle because of losses I've had; one is practical because of the loss of ability to fully use, alter and fix things*. Either is a sufficient reason for me not to upgrade to 4.9 or ever buy encrypted content, let alone both.
2 re. Piracy
I'm going to refer entirely to practicalities, not morality. You say the piracy is taking money from DAZ and PAs. Actually that's not necessarily the case. It assumes a point not in evidence. It assumes that the people who downlaod the pirated copies would buy the product from the DAZ store if they couldn't get a pirated copy. Mostly that's not so. Most downloaders of pirated stuff fall into one of three groups. Group 1 is people who don't even do any 3D Art, they are just rabid collectors who happened to have picked on the challenge of trying to create a full, pirated collection of DAZ V4 stuff or whatever as opposed to anything else, Stop the piracy and they'll move to a different obsessive collection target they can still pirate - could be anything. They would never actually spend a single buck in the DAZ store - that's not the game. Group 2 is effectively 'poor' people who've downloaded the free program and the freebies and really got into it but they've got past the simple stuff they can do with the freebies and want desperately to do more complicated things, but they need much more content. But. they;re relatively poor - maybe students, maybe unemployed, maybe sick or disabled and short of funds. They actually buy SOME stuff - as much as they can afford and picking from their favorite content creators - but it's not enough to render anything they want to render and they pirate the rest of what they need to render their vision. From a PRACTICAL point of view, if you let it continue this group does buy SOME stuff so DAZ and PAs get SOME money from them, and if their circumstances change for the better, like students or unemployed getting a job and a real wage, they will buy more, become just regular customers instead of part-time regular part time pirate downloader; but if you cut off the piracy ... well, they are back to not being able to get enough stuff to render anything they want to render so they give up and leave the hobby - so the net effect is a loss of the bit they ARE spending and the greater amount they would spend in the future. Group 3 is a completely different group - these people do buy stuff and can afford to buy stuff, but they've bought enough stuff that's disappointed them and hasn't been up to what they bought it for, they've become jaded and they really really want to try before they buy (and I have some sympathy ... I've gone through periods where maybe 8 out of ten 3D content items I've bought in a month have been dispappointing and never used; and while DAz has a 30 day money back guarentee, i rather suspect that returning 80 percent of items every month wouldn't be allowed to go on for long). So they either (a) go on the hunt when they need a particular type of item for a render to download and try out pirated versions of the alternatives, then go ot the DAz store or Rendo or wherever to buy the one they decide is the one they want; or (b) just hoover up all pirated stuff available of any type they think they might ever use, so they have it to hand to search through and test when they need something, and then simply got to the store and buy eveyrthing they actually end up using as they use it. Cut out the piracy possibility with this lot, and they will simply buy less because they can't try before they buy and are much more selective and choosy because of al the stuff they've bought that wasn't any good for their need. So that's 3 groups: one currently doesn't buy and won't buy anything under any condition; one currently spends a bit but can't afford to buy enough to go on with the hobby with that alone so you lose the current amount of spending and any future increased spend; and one lot currently spend at a fair rate but will likely buy less without unlimted try-before-you-buy from piracy. Net result of stopping piracy - NO extra buying of things from the store, loss of income from two of the three groups buying less or nothing when they can't pirate.
If the store products were physical, there'd be the cost of the raw materials stolen to consider, and perhaps being out of physical product when someone wants to buy somthing due to lost stock. but neither is the case with digital products.
As I said, this is the PRACTICAL situation. The moral situation is completely different. which is more important is up to the individual to decide. but don't confuse the two. And don't just blindly assume that people who pirate would spend in the store for all - or even most, and in many cases any - of the same stuff if they couldn't pirate. Mostly they won't, and often they can't even if they wanted to (like group 2 above). Also ... don't be misled, most pirates are, well, pirates. The same reason they don't pay in the store means they won't pay anyone else instead. Yes, there are pirate link sites that charge a membership to get any links to pirated content. Yes, there are pirate link sites with some stuff for free, but other stuff only in a pay-for VIP section. And yes some actual download sites you have to pay a membership to download, or a fee to download fast and without waiting. But there are also pirate link sites with no membership fee or VIP section at all, it's all free, and what one that has a VIP section puts in its VIP only section, another puts in the no fee section. All the links can be found for free; and all the downloads can be made for free with patience, And that's how most pirate downloaders do it, not paying someone else instead of the DAZ store. Most pirated content downloading, the pirate downloader is paying nobody at all, not some pirate King (and with a lot of 'hey guys, I need X Y and Z for a render but I can only afford X, here it is if anyone needs it, anyone got Y and Z or up for getting them and sharing them). This isn't like drug dealing with criminal masterminds making loads of money; mostly it's an outgrowth of the 'the internet is free and all knowledge should be free' belief. Some guys make some money from the piracy - but for MOST of the piracy nobody makes any money at all. And, again, a pirated copy does not mean a lost sale that would have been; it hardly ever means a lost sale that would have been.
if you try to shut down the piracy, it's for moral/ethical reasons. There's no actual financial reason, and people saying there is simply don't understand the reality of who is doing what, how and why.
This all, of course, leaves aside the issue of whether this DRM encryption will actuallt stop the pirating. History rather suggests it won't. Back when DS wasn't free (for the advanced version) and throughout Poser's life, new versions of both programs had hacked versions appear within 48 hours every single time.
*Note
I know many customers look at products and go 'Ooh, i'd like to do a render with that character/outfit/scene', then buy it and use it as is. I don't. My imagination formed itself long before any thoughts of 3D art (in the fictional writing sphere), and with me i start with something in my head entirely independent of what's in my DS Library, Poser Runtimes or the DAZ/Rendo/wherever store. With me it's more like 'Ooh, interesting characters in my head running about in an interesting setting in an interesting plot, I want to do 3D renders of this story. Now, where the heck do I find a 3D version of hair like THAT, and clothes like THAT, and one of THOSE,' And my imagination is detailed and picky, so i have to find THAT, THAT and THOSE - not just any old thing vaguely like that, that and those. If that particular character always wears her hair in a ponytail nearer the nape of the neck than the top of the head, then that's what i have to have, even if there isn't one in the DAZ store or Rendo, not ONE out of the MASS of ponytails with the ponytail on the upper back of the head instead. (Am I bitter with DS and Poser ponytail creating PAs? Not at all ... Grrrrr.) Consequently i very seldom get to use products just 'out of the box', whether clothes, textures sets, props, sets or whatever. Retexturing is the least of what I end up having to do. Often I'm having to remove chunks of one item, combine it with parts from others, all converted from being natively for different figures from each other. retexture parts, re-UVmap parts, re-paint the weight maps - either the PAs or from Autofit/TransferUtility - because there's horrible mesh distortion on high thigh side-to-side and I need one frame with a pose that requires that, etc etc - and on top of THAT I need to find the bugs in the forumulae that mean that this morph product goes screwy in THAT circumstance that QA must never have tried, and THIS set of clothing goes loopy because the PA accidentally baked a mistake into most of the morphs including 3 I need to use .
And THAT is why I need product data files that i can read and examine and edit in a text editor when maybe you, quoted poster, and many others do not. I'd need it anyway to find and fix the large number of DAZ store product (DAZ Own and PA) bugs I find (and mostly fix for myself and just move on, after the way some PAs and DAZ Customer Services treated me some years ago on presenting them with found bugs, despite my presenting full details and the tested fix - but occasionally I still report them, as this week wiith one reported and two more I'll type up when i feel up to it). But bug squashings aside, without being able to see and read and edit the .duf and .dsf files i wouldn't know the technicalities I do, I wouldn't be able to examine and work out and understand the technicalities I don't understand right now because I haven't needed to yet (and Poser has never had a proper manual like the Poser one, sadly) but may need to learn to do something next week, and i simply wouldn't be able to get nine-tenths of the use out of the products I buy that i do. Seriously - nine-tenths You know, I will buy a product for, say, 17.95 simply because I want only one part of one of the ten items in it to use with other things from elsewhere, but i need to isolate exactly certain vertex numbers in the vertex definition section of the main item .dsf file - which I can ONLY do with a readibale .dsf file. As I say, i hardly ever use products out of the box, and without .dsf readability I simply won't buy stuff (same with Poser content. where I must be able to open, read and edit the Cr2s etc) because I don't have use for it as it is, need to read the and edit the dsf to enhance, customize and repuprose, and always, always, always need to be able to open them to find and squish the bug then and there, not wait for the days, weeks, months or forever for DAZ to fix it.
Thank you for replying. That sounds great going forward, but what about things we were given in the past? I don't see me using connect, but on the off chance I decide to give it a shot I want to be sure myself and many others aren't going to be banned and accused of having pirated content.
I may not be your average user as I do use Poser to a small extent and do want portablility where possible. Some things are never going to accurately transfer like lights and shaders but I would like to be able to get clothing and other items into Poser to use from time to time. I also hand edit files especially morphs as I don't always like where vendors have placed their morphs and will move them to where I would like them to be. So far the inability to hand edit encrypted files is one thing that would stop me from using DazConnect...I'm not saying the only thing but it is a major reason.
To address this issue I don't feel that Daz is treating me like a criminal I do think that I'm wearing the cost for what pirates are doing. I don't believe that encryption will stop the pirates for very long and I do believe encryption will impact on how I work in DS. I would like to say I don't hold with people pirating and can understand that vendors need to be protected. I'm just not sure this will actually do anything except drive legitimate customers away.
See above...one last comment. I'm still trying to decide which way to go on this issue and I'm waiting to see before deciding...not just because of the DRM issues but because frequently with a new release there are teething problems so in recent years I've gotten into the habit of not rushing to install new releases.
cheers
Pen
We have no way of knowing what other content that isn't in your account you might have installed or use in Studio, it very specifically doesn't report that. So even if you were using pirated content, we have no way to know or detect that. We did that very purposefully to only have Studio pull down information with Daz Connect, never push up, because we don't want to infringe on anyone's privacy.
Our efforts to curb piracey are at the getting out and shareable in the first place, methods to stop consumption of pirated content we felt was too invasive and didn't implement anything to even get close to trying that.
I will repeat. Do vendors have any say in whether their content is encrypted?
Well, for whatever it's worth... it's 10:07 Eastern as of this typing, and not one of the three 'free with $49' purchases are on the "What's Hot" bar. Amusingly, sorting the front page products by "Trending Now" shows that the first of the free-with-$49-purchase items has (I swear I'm not making this up) forty-nine products trending ahead of it -- including some that themselves cost more than $49, so someone buying them could have thrown the items in at the same time, and didn't.
One of the three items isn't on the first page of 120 items at all when sorting by "Trending Now." (The storeroom -- which honestly tempted me the most. But then, sets are always useful.)
It's only day one, so it's nothing conclusive, but it looks like people aren't cottoning to it. I guess we'll see what happens when an unconditionally free encrypted product goes up.
Edit: From the look of things, free items may not track as 'hot' or 'trending' at all, so I could just be off-base here.
Could it be that if there free they don't contribute to whats hot, I don't see the other front freebie in whats hot either.
NM I see your edit :) I expect thats the case.
Do not be too misled by the what's hot list. I have no information exactly how it works, but observing past behaviour I believe it is driven by money paid for an item for where it ends up. That is why PC+ items rarely make the list, even though I am sure they sell very many of these due to their low price. A few days ago a piece of software costing $899 dollars shot up to number 1 on the list, before dropping quickly down in the following days. This temporary leap into the tables was probably driven by a single sale of it at a undiscounted price.
I suspect that the vast majority of "sales" of the DAZ Connect only products has been as freebies, hence their lowly position in the "What's Hot" list. Once DAZ Connect only products arrive that can only be bought at their normal price (ie base minus new discount), we will get a better idea how popular their are/or are not, particularly if it is from a top artist like Stonemason, whose products almost invariably jump to number one on release and stay there for a while.
lol...similar thoughts went through my mind when I read this...
There is also the problem that people with work computers that they do not connect to the internet having to connect one time to get the encryption key.
My art computer has never, and will never, see the internet. To do so, I would have to spend some serious money on anti-malware program licenses for my art computer. Licenses that I already have on my internet computer. No thanks. Anything that goes on my art computer has to pass through my internet computer and it's malware scanners first.
I was off the forums and so I didn't nip this in the bud. Fixmypcmike answered a question about 4.9 removing 4.8 and answered incorrectly. IT DOES NOT REMOVE 4.8. The 4.9 actually goes IN the 4.8 folder, you have both versions. The 4.9 will know when you add products and even change categories in 4.8. It does NOT work in reverse, when you piddle in 4.9, your old version 4.8 does not reflect the changes.
I am speaking from first hand experience. I have BOTH my 4.8 and 4.9
Second, and I wish they would merge all these threads,(but this may have been in this one) I also told everyone you do NOT get a choice of where it installs. I was specific- the popup asks for permission to install, but that is IT. You do not choose the installation place, it goes in your 4.8 folder. You don't have to do a darned thing to protect your 4.8.
I hit quote and wanted to reply as I found two references as I was reading along so decided to go ahead and reply. The three things I see repeatedly asked- here's the answers:
1. The 4.9 does NOT replace your 4.8 2. You do not choose where 4.9 installs to 3. Your custom content Categories are there in 4.9 (but as usual, do a backup before you change over)
And God help you if (when) your computer breaks and you have to migrate everything to a new computer.
Oh look everyone! Once again Daz has given us something nobody asked for while ignoring all the stuff we have been asking for.
So if I understand this correctly, in order to start a Daz session I need to log in, but I don't need to remain online once I've done my innitial sign in. Well that just sucks I often bring my laptop to sites where I have no internet access and will work with Daz as an alternative to spending time engaged in online entertainment.
Also what data is being collected by Daz when we log in? Are they tracking what assets we're using and how we use them?
I don't recall a single person ever saying "Hey! Wouldn't it be swell if we had to log onto Daz Studio every time we wanted to use it?"
Also if I understand correctly from the FAQ, while we can have Daz Studio installed on multiple machines we can only run one copy of it at a time? Who the hell asked for that "feature"? So those of us who like to use one computer for scene and asset creation and then use another computer to render scenes (thus not having our productivity hindered by not being able to work and render at the same time) are now SOL? That's horrible? Why would you do this? It makes no sense what so ever! Nobody wanted any of this crap.
What we have begged for, repeatedly, is better animation tools, a user creatable dynamics cloth and hair system, physics and a hell of a lot of us have been pleading with you to finally fix Hexagon. Nobody asked for Daz to spy on when we use our software and nobody wanted to not be able to render on one machine while working on another. What made you think this was a good idea?
Are you talking about the beta or the general release?
How did I get quoted saying that never did LOL. I usually uninstall the CMS and DS prior to installing a new version.I went the extra steps backed up my existing content to another drive. Created a restore point AND backed up with system image so I am certain I can have 4.8 run properly should I decide to revert back....I also made sure to have the 4.8 intsaller saved.
No, you do not need to log in to start a session. IF you wish to install a product using Daz Connect, you have to have logged in at least once using that computer.
No, the only thing sent to Daz is your login credentials and what products you have requested. It doesn't track wht you use or how you use it.
You do not have to log in to use DS. You only have to log in ONCE if you wish to use Daz Connect.
No you can run DS on multiple machines, you do not have to be logged in to use DS or any installed content.
Okay.... good. Whew! Because I'm strung out on cold medication and to my fuzzy brain it looked like Daz Studio was going the route a lot of other software is going which requires a log in and only one copy running at a time. Whew. That is a relief.
So all this is really just a different version of DIM then? Not that anybody asked for that and it would be nice if Daz would actually work on the stuff we want, but I don't see what the problem is if all this is is a different version of DIM.
In some thread I saw a PA say that offically they have no control over whether their content is made Encrypted Daz Connect only. On the other hand, if DAZ is deciding to make their products Daz Connect only and the PAs think that reduces their revenue, DAZ is going to have some unhappy PAs and will certainly be hearing about it.
The three products released today that are Encrypted Daz Connect only are DAZ buy outs. That means DAZ paid the PA an up front cash payment for the products and now owns the products. The PAs no longer have any financial interest in the products and so don't care what DAZ does with the products.
If there are future Encrypted Daz Connect only products released, I expect most will be DAZ buy outs. I suspect most of the PAs have to be convinced that selling Encrypted Daz Connect only is not going to hurt their revenue before they will be confortable with it. Perhaps there are some PAs that want to sell their products this way, because they feel they are being victimized by piracy. Time will tell.
Both DAZ and the PAs want to maximize their revenue. If selling DAZ Connect only products causes revenue to go down, you won't see it very many products sold that way.
Actually many of the people posting in favour of encryption here have been PA's, so I suspect those at least will be happy, at least at a later stage, to have their products encrypted. Whether they want to be one of the first, is a different matter.