Loading...
> >

No encrypted for me.

13567…41

Comments

  • anikadanikad Posts: 1,919

    Hmm, DRM does not work on virtual products, a lot of the time it doesn't work on physical products. As we can all see with ebooks, pirates are ten steps ahead of the drm makers and have content up within minutes. The only person who suffers is the legitmate purchaser. As someone who has lost content thanks to drm (looking at you adobe reader) I'm not planning on buying 3d content with drm keys.

  • Jason GalterioJason Galterio Posts: 2,562

    So now how does the Content Gather work? That is specifically made to transport files from one computer to another. As well as archive projects.

    Will this now not work? If it doesn't work now, can I have my money back for purchasing it?

    And, I am sorry, but I do not except "this is what we will do in the future" answers. You didn't address any of my questions about changing computers, loss of the encryption key, etc.

  • morkmork Posts: 278
    DAZ_Steve said:
    1- Effect on content usability ond portability (which, again, I'd love opinions on what I wrote above).

    2- The perception that Daz does not trust its customers and is treating them like criminals.

    Let me address the first issue, from my point of view.
    For the background, I'm using DAZ to get nice looking models for my little 3D engine I'm working on for fun. I only render still images for fun and not that often, as it simply takes too long for my patience. :)

    So here some things that I think would limit how I use DAZ content.

    1. Fix or complement assets
    I had a few purchases where the files contained absolute paths, which is not going to work if content is not installed into default location. Simple to fix, but you need to be able to read the files and change them.
    Same with material presets that ignore genitals or whatever you call them nowadays - it's simply a matter of duplicating the torso material and rename it. Need r/w access to the plain files for that.

    2. Import morphs
    I use assimp to import the exported Collada models, FBX support is bad in assimp and I don't have the time to improve it plus the FBX files are HUGE when exported with morphs.
    So I need to read in the morph asset files I want in plain text, parse them and do the magic (still have some troubles with those that move joints, as I'm using bones. any help is appreciated :)). Can't do that if those files are encrypted. Not sure if they'd be, though.

    3. Batch install content using script
    I made a script that I point at my backup folder and the content folder and let it do its magic, if I need to restore, which does not happen too often I have to admit. But I could not do that with new content, if there is no API I can use for installing the encrypted stuff. Unzipping/Installing would not do the trick, right? Can I backup encrypted stuff at all?

    4. Examine files in order to gain knowledge on how to get it into my engine
    That'd might be something you are fine with, if I can't do that, but it would make things even more harder for me than it is already. Mind you, if I cannot use the assets in my engine, there is no point for me to get your (good) stuff. Then I'll hook up Blender, refresh+improve my skills and do it on my own, which will takes ages and a half plus 50 years, but what are my choices? Unfortunately, DAZ is unmatched when it comes to custom 3d models one can afford. Poser is out, because that "GUI" is simply unacceptable for me.

    5. VMs, Windows+Linux
    I have a couple of installations of DAZ. One in windows, two in WINE, one in a VM (all using the same content drive). I already have quite some software that I cannot use as I'd  like to without running into potential troubles, as I need to register those on every installation and then, how should they know that all these installations are actually mine and on the same PC, not sharing anything with anyone? So I'm often stuck with a single installation, which limits flexibility. I can see the same for DAZ in the foreseeable future. Might be, might not, who knows.

    6. Scripts in general
    As an example, I thought about writing a script/program for converting the G2 poses and animations to G3, using genetic algorithms for finding the optimal conversions (no clue if this works, just an idea so far). I'd need to read the files in order to do the magic, but when I can't, I can't. Have not messed around with the DAZ API, but not sure if everything I'd be up to would be possible within DAZ, not at an acceptable speed for sure. I admit that I have dropped this idea, because the efforts are not worth the time I'd have to spend on it, as poses are not much of value in a engine where things move all the time. But you get the idea with scripts, I guess? :)

    And finally the usual game where services are shut down and you lose your content. That's my least concern right now, but when it should happen, it's a major ****-**. :(

     

    DAZ_Steve said:
    Novica said:

    I don't feel you are treating the vast majority of us like criminals, I think it is a realistic approach to protecting your vendors.  BTW, I installed 4.9 and all the custom categories I made in Content Library are there and looking beautiful over in the Smart Content pane. Flawless execution! Kudos. I posted screenshots over in my Art Studio thread. 

    I think my hesitation is the money invested in products that I, at some point, can't physically put on my computer in case something happens to DAZ. If and when DIM ever goes away, or manual installation, (I put all my products on external hard drives) then yes, I will quit buying. So it's not the encryption, it's the having a copy that I can call up. You've said DIM is going to be here for a long time, so I'm not worried. That's just me.

    Files will still work offline.  So, even if something were to happen to Daz, you would continue to use your encrypted files.  But, that is because your computer authenticated (before Daz went away in our theoretical example) and got the appropariate info for your login to allow you to decrypt your content.  This means your stuff keeps working, but that other people (who don't use your login) can't use it on their computers.

    And then you upgrade your computer and the auth is gone, right?

  • BobvanBobvan Posts: 2,652

    Just took the plunge chose to work offline everything seems the same custom categories all there thanks Novica

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 23,905
    Bobvan said:

    Just took the plunge chose to work offline everything seems the same custom categories all there thanks Novica

    You're welcome, happy rendering!

  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,469
    CypherFOX said:

    Greetings,

    gregbo said:

    As history has continuously proven and as has been stated too many times to count in this forum, DRM schemes do not work. They are a very minor annoyance for pirates and traditionally have a catastrophic effect on artist/vendors through loss of sales.

    The $20 BILLION business (in 2015 alone!) that is the Apple app store begs to differ on the viability of DRM-enabled content and the 'catastrophic' effect on vendors.

    I haven't picked up any of the 4.9 encrypted content, but that's mainly because I'm not in a position to drop $49 on other stuff right now. :)  The medieval storage room looks cool though, and it's on my wishlist.

    One thing I would have liked to have seen is a marginally lower base price on encrypted-only content.  Not a lot, but where it fits into the price chart should be a smidge lower than non-encrypted-only content.  Why?  Because the underlying theory is to reduce piracy.  If you take the estimated reasonable losses on piracy, average it out per product, then divide that by (say) 2, that should be (roughly) the discount.  That bakes in a small increase in profit, and reduces the price to the end users at the same time.  Just a thought.

    --  Morgan

    Just a +1 to Morgan here on that price reduction. Prices are rising, quality is not necessarily going up with the rising prices, and... well, yeah: we ought to see lower prices on Connect only content.

  • MelanieLMelanieL Posts: 7,513
    Male-M3dia said:
    MelanieL said:

    OK, so I'm one of those who uses DS on a non-internet-connected PC. I download (using DIM) all my files on a laptop with internet access, then copy them over on a shared drive to the other PC where I install them (also using DIM).

    We were promised in the Beta thread some time ago that there would be a method for us to download these new encrypted files. What is it, please? (I haven't bought any of today's releases so this isn't a huge problem for me today, but maybe the next encrypted release will be of interest to me)

     

    From the faq:

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/990392/#Comment_990392

    Yes, but this still seems to say I have to logon once to validate my account on the PC without internet access.

    Capture2.JPG
    1052 x 437 - 98K
  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    DAZ_Steve said:
    nicstt said:
    Sorel said:
    Yeah I honestly don't see what all the crying is about. >_>

    Experience of what encrypted content does to legitimate users.

    Pleae calrify.  What does this prevent you from doing that you could do before.  I'm not saying that you're wrong... I'm simply trying to understand.

    Only weeks ago, there were no plans to introduce encrypted only content; the day that Daz release 4.9, they release encrypted only content.

    We don't know what will happen, that is the problem... and those of you offering assurances also don't know what others have planned.

  • BobvanBobvan Posts: 2,652
    edited January 2016
    Novica said:
    Bobvan said:

    Just took the plunge chose to work offline everything seems the same custom categories all there thanks Novica

    You're welcome, happy rendering!

    Thanks. I guess due to putting their emphasis on connect overlooked much needed fixes like iray not starting from scratch everytime one wants to make a slight tweak. A true bummer...

    Post edited by Bobvan on
  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,582
    edited January 2016
    MelanieL said:
    Male-M3dia said:
    MelanieL said:

    OK, so I'm one of those who uses DS on a non-internet-connected PC. I download (using DIM) all my files on a laptop with internet access, then copy them over on a shared drive to the other PC where I install them (also using DIM).

    We were promised in the Beta thread some time ago that there would be a method for us to download these new encrypted files. What is it, please? (I haven't bought any of today's releases so this isn't a huge problem for me today, but maybe the next encrypted release will be of interest to me)

     

    From the faq:

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/990392/#Comment_990392

    Yes, but this still seems to say I have to logon once to validate my account on the PC without internet access.

    No, it says on the machine with internet access log into the account that you want to download the offline files for.

    EDIT: You do need to do it once.

    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,469
    nicstt said:
    DAZ_Steve said:
    nicstt said:
    Sorel said:
    Yeah I honestly don't see what all the crying is about. >_>

    Experience of what encrypted content does to legitimate users.

    Pleae calrify.  What does this prevent you from doing that you could do before.  I'm not saying that you're wrong... I'm simply trying to understand.

    Only weeks ago, there were no plans to introduce encrypted only content; the day that Daz release 4.9, they release encrypted only content.

    We don't know what will happen, that is the problem... and those of you offering assurances also don't know what others have planned.

    I gotta say, this is one of the times where I will don the tin foil hat with you. There were no plans. They kept saying that. And then, on day one, there is Connect Only content. That really, really bothered me.

  • morkmork Posts: 278
    MelanieL said:
    Male-M3dia said:
    MelanieL said:

    OK, so I'm one of those who uses DS on a non-internet-connected PC. I download (using DIM) all my files on a laptop with internet access, then copy them over on a shared drive to the other PC where I install them (also using DIM).

    We were promised in the Beta thread some time ago that there would be a method for us to download these new encrypted files. What is it, please? (I haven't bought any of today's releases so this isn't a huge problem for me today, but maybe the next encrypted release will be of interest to me)

     

    From the faq:

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/990392/#Comment_990392

    Yes, but this still seems to say I have to logon once to validate my account on the PC without internet access.

    Ah, another very valid point. My Windows installation has no internet access. Will never get. Right now I install the content on Linux, reboot to windows and start up daz, works perfectly.
    I expect problems with this workflow. How should I validate the installation on Windows without internet?

  • nDelphinDelphi Posts: 1,873
    Bobvan said:
    Novica said:
    Bobvan said:

    Just took the plunge chose to work offline everything seems the same custom categories all there thanks Novica

    You're welcome, happy rendering!

    Thanks. I guess due to putting their emphasis on connect overlooked much needed fixes like iray not starting from scratch everytime one wants to make a slight tweak. A true bummer...

    If I remember correctly that is something that is out of the hands of DAZ 3D, that NVIDIA has to fix that. Am I correct?

  • captainklutz_a2ec859073captainklutz_a2ec859073 Posts: 196

    I can see both sides of the encryption argument, but my beef with 'connect only' items is I can't do my manual install, which I always use.

  • DAZ_Steve_2154153DAZ_Steve_2154153 Posts: 565
    edited January 2016

     

    evilded777 said:
    nicstt said:

    We don't know what wilOnly weeks ago, there were no plans to introduce encrypted only content; the day that Daz release 4.9, they release encrypted only content.l happen, that is the problem... and those of you offering assurances also don't know what others have planned.

    I gotta say, this is one of the times where I will don the tin foil hat with you. There were no plans. They kept saying that. And then, on day one, there is Connect Only content. That really, really bothered me.

    Up until a few days ago there was no plan for encrypted only content.  Just prior to the launch was thought, "Hey, let's put out a few free items that require 4.9 so we can get people to try it and see that 4.9 is pretty cool."  This was based on the number of people in the forums who had expressed concerns about 4.9.

    Based on the number of downloads of 4.9 today, and the number of people connecting with Daz Connect, it appears that the enticement was un-needed.  We do however, have a few more encrypted only free items planned over the weekend.

    This was not intended to mislead or bait and switch anyone.

    Also, as I am personally the individual who determines what products to launch when, what to price them, and what formats they will be in, I can tell you this:

    I have no intention of releasing major figure launches encrypted only in the near future.

    I will launch some products encrypted only in the coming weeks and see how they do.

    I will also use free items to entice people to adopt encryption.

     

    Post edited by DAZ_Steve_2154153 on
  • UHFUHF Posts: 515

    According to the FAQ I'm screwed.

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/941600/#Comment_941600

    "You cannot move files around for products installed through Daz Connect. You can change the drive and/or path to which products are installed using Daz Connect, but you cannot manually re-organize the files within the product."

    So... if a vendor decides I need to look on the fricken moon for files.. that's where I have to do it forever.  That truly sucks and is a real step backwards.

     

    Can you imagine what 1000 product library would look like?  Each vender sticks there garbage in whatever directory they thought up today?  To my eyes.. this is truly nuts.  Think about smart props.. some have poses with the props, some have them with the character some do both.  (I merge the poses to the same directories as the props so I can find them without scrolling though everything on the planet trying to find them.)

  • TheKDTheKD Posts: 2,710
    edited January 2016
    UHF said:

    According to the FAQ I'm screwed.

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/941600/#Comment_941600

    "You cannot move files around for products installed through Daz Connect. You can change the drive and/or path to which products are installed using Daz Connect, but you cannot manually re-organize the files within the product."

    So... if a vendor decides I need to look on the fricken moon for files.. that's where I have to do it forever.  That truly sucks and is a real step backwards.

     

    Can you imagine what 1000 product library would look like?  Each vender sticks there garbage in whatever directory they thought up today?  To my eyes.. this is truly nuts.  Think about smart props.. some have poses with the props, some have them with the character some do both.  (I merge the poses to the same directories as the props so I can find them without scrolling though everything on the planet trying to find them.)

    I hear ya dude. I been manually rearranging and editing stuff since the V4/M4 days. Hate useless vanity folders, badly named products, and products that have icons that don't even show what stuff looks like. I been fixing them myself before I install to the library, and keeping backups of every fixed product so I don't ever have to do it again.

    Post edited by TheKD on
  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165
    DAZ_Steve said:

     

    evilded777 said:
    nicstt said:

    We don't know what wilOnly weeks ago, there were no plans to introduce encrypted only content; the day that Daz release 4.9, they release encrypted only content.l happen, that is the problem... and those of you offering assurances also don't know what others have planned.

    I gotta say, this is one of the times where I will don the tin foil hat with you. There were no plans. They kept saying that. And then, on day one, there is Connect Only content. That really, really bothered me.

    Up until a few days ago there was no plan for encrypted only content.  Just prior to the launch was thought, "Hey, let's put out a few free items that require 4.9 so we can get people to try it and see that 4.9 is pretty cool."  This was based on the number of people in the forums who had expressed concerns about 4.9.

    Based on the number of downloads of 4.9 today, and the number of people connecting with Daz Connect, it appears that the enticement was un-needed.  We do however, have a few more encrypted only free items planned over the weekend.

    This was not intended to mislead or bait and switch anyone.

    Also, as I am personally the individual who determines what products to launch when, what to price them, and what formats they will be in, I can tell you this:

    I have no intention of releasing major figure launches encrypted only in the near future.

    I will launch some products encrypted only in the coming weeks and see how they do.

    I will also use free items to entice people to adopt encryption.

     

    Good luck

  • BobvanBobvan Posts: 2,652
    nDelphi said:
    Bobvan said:
    Novica said:
    Bobvan said:

    Just took the plunge chose to work offline everything seems the same custom categories all there thanks Novica

    You're welcome, happy rendering!

    Thanks. I guess due to putting their emphasis on connect overlooked much needed fixes like iray not starting from scratch everytime one wants to make a slight tweak. A true bummer...

    If I remember correctly that is something that is out of the hands of DAZ 3D, that NVIDIA has to fix that. Am I correct?

      Still one figures they would of resolved this by now. It's a true shame that Reality / Lux has gone to the dogs..

  • UHFUHF Posts: 515

    TheKD: Gen4 was\is really bad.  Daz is much better.. but still problematic.

    I also used to work in CAD and one thing always stuck with me, and that was efficiency.  One click to find things, not 12 and 3 scrolls.. "Oh look.. those shoes will work! Where was I?"

     

    So... If I manually download the files, and decrypt them can I rearrange the files?  i.e. Give up on updates and automation?

  • Gr00vusGr00vus Posts: 372

    To DAZ and the PAs - I will never buy any 3D art related product from this store or anywhere else that is encumbered with digital restriction managment - what you're calling encryption here. If platinum club products are only offered with digital restriction management, I will cancel my platinum club membership.

  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 11,719
    edited January 2016
    Bobvan said:
    Novica said:
    Bobvan said:

    Apperantly it wipes out custom cetegories one creates deal breaker for me..

    No it does not.  It kept my customized categories perfectly.

    Really cool on the other the DS4.9 forum folks are mention losing theirs. Just to make sure we are on the same page you mean like this right?

    I had mentioned earlier that back when I upgraded from 4.7 to 4.8 that it completely clobbered my customized categories and I was unable to retrieve it.  Wasn't supposed to happen but it did. Wasn't the first time that had happened to me during an upgrade.  Not a happy camper. sad How many times do I need to get kicked in the (<pick appropriate sensitive body part>) before I decide to back away from the fight? crying

    My take on this whole situation is that DAZ has over-designed and over-complicated this product to death.

     

    Post edited by LeatherGryphon on
  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,693

    I'm not personally a fan of encryption of content I own. Drm causes unforeseen issues and has always been a hassle for me.

    I also had trouble losing categories when I upgraded.

  • fixmypcmikefixmypcmike Posts: 19,617
    argel1200 said:
     

    If I download an old product via DAZ Connect will it be encrypted

    No, it will not.

    argel1200 said:

    What about a new product that lists DC, DIM, and manual DL as options? Will the DC download be encrypted?

    No, it will not.

    argel1200 said:

    If not everything downloaded via DC will be encrypted then I would like to see that made expclitily clear in the store.

    Look at any product page -- it now lists "Install Types" after "Compatible Software".  Everything except the 3 items released today says "Daz Connect, Install Manager, Manual Install",  The 3 items today say "Encrypted Daz Connect".  So you can see if any product is available using DIM or manual install, and if the Daz Connect version is encrypted.

    argel1200 said:

    I would also like an option to tell DC to only download unencrypted content (assuming e.g. old content will not be encrypted).

    Daz Connect only installs the products you tell it to, it doesn't connect or install automatically.

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,548
    UHF said:

    According to the FAQ I'm screwed.

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/941600/#Comment_941600

    "You cannot move files around for products installed through Daz Connect. You can change the drive and/or path to which products are installed using Daz Connect, but you cannot manually re-organize the files within the product."

    So... if a vendor decides I need to look on the fricken moon for files.. that's where I have to do it forever.  That truly sucks and is a real step backwards.

     

    Can you imagine what 1000 product library would look like?  Each vender sticks there garbage in whatever directory they thought up today?  To my eyes.. this is truly nuts.  Think about smart props.. some have poses with the props, some have them with the character some do both.  (I merge the poses to the same directories as the props so I can find them without scrolling though everything on the planet trying to find them.)

    WHAT!!!!  I was almost sold when I found out that the content library I created for myself would still be there but you are saying that I can't add the new content to my own version of the content library in the future?!  That's a deal breaker for me.  I spent hours upon hours on that content library so that it would suit the way I think and work.  I don't use smart content, ever.  If I can't add them to my own beautifully organized content library I will be unable to work with this.

  • fixmypcmikefixmypcmike Posts: 19,617
    Ice Dragon Art said:
    UHF said:

    According to the FAQ I'm screwed.

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/941600/#Comment_941600

    "You cannot move files around for products installed through Daz Connect. You can change the drive and/or path to which products are installed using Daz Connect, but you cannot manually re-organize the files within the product."

    So... if a vendor decides I need to look on the fricken moon for files.. that's where I have to do it forever.  That truly sucks and is a real step backwards.

     

    Can you imagine what 1000 product library would look like?  Each vender sticks there garbage in whatever directory they thought up today?  To my eyes.. this is truly nuts.  Think about smart props.. some have poses with the props, some have them with the character some do both.  (I merge the poses to the same directories as the props so I can find them without scrolling though everything on the planet trying to find them.)

    WHAT!!!!  I was almost sold when I found out that the content library I created for myself would still be there but you are saying that I can't add the new content to my own version of the content library in the future?!  That's a deal breaker for me.  I spent hours upon hours on that content library so that it would suit the way I think and work.  I don't use smart content, ever.  If I can't add them to my own beautifully organized content library I will be unable to work with this.

    You can still do that for products that are not Daz Connect only.  If you use Categories to organize you can still do that with everything.  They've also added an ability to create links to Daz Connect-installed content which you can rearrange on disk as you like.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,048

    Do vendors have any say in whether their stuff is sold encrypted?

     

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,548
    edited January 2016
    Fixmypcmike said:
    Ice Dragon Art said:
    UHF said:

    According to the FAQ I'm screwed.

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/941600/#Comment_941600

    "You cannot move files around for products installed through Daz Connect. You can change the drive and/or path to which products are installed using Daz Connect, but you cannot manually re-organize the files within the product."

    So... if a vendor decides I need to look on the fricken moon for files.. that's where I have to do it forever.  That truly sucks and is a real step backwards.

     

    Can you imagine what 1000 product library would look like?  Each vender sticks there garbage in whatever directory they thought up today?  To my eyes.. this is truly nuts.  Think about smart props.. some have poses with the props, some have them with the character some do both.  (I merge the poses to the same directories as the props so I can find them without scrolling though everything on the planet trying to find them.)

    WHAT!!!!  I was almost sold when I found out that the content library I created for myself would still be there but you are saying that I can't add the new content to my own version of the content library in the future?!  That's a deal breaker for me.  I spent hours upon hours on that content library so that it would suit the way I think and work.  I don't use smart content, ever.  If I can't add them to my own beautifully organized content library I will be unable to work with this.

    You can still do that for products that are not Daz Connect only.  If you use Categories to organize you can still do that with everything.  They've also added an ability to create links to Daz Connect-installed content which you can rearrange on disk as you like.

    So only the files that are Daz connect only are unmovable but any other content I buy will be as normal basically?  One other question, if I load the 4.9 version will the 4.8 version still be there or will it overwrite the older version?  I'm sure it been asked several times but I have read so many threads and so many conficting things I'm not even sure where to look.  I will be backing up the 4.8 version anyway (and need to no matter what I end up deciding) but if its going to overwrite then I am going to do it when I get home from work tonight

     

    Post edited by IceDragonArt on
  • fixmypcmikefixmypcmike Posts: 19,617

    Installing the 4.9 general release will uninstall 4.8

  • fred9803fred9803 Posts: 1,564

    "Up until a few days ago there was no plan for encrypted only content.  Just prior to the launch was thought, "Hey, let's put out a few free items that require 4.9......" Daz_Steve.'

    Oh dear. It doesn't exactly inspire confidence in those at the helm when decisions like this are made on a whim, on the spur on the moment and reversing previously stated assurances. Yet it does give hope that if enough people express their opposition to DRM, those at Daz who make these ad hoc decisions on the run, might very well reverse their DRM one. Russian roulette anyone?

     

This discussion has been closed.