No encrypted for me.
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Downloading of old products through Daz Connect will not force them to be encrypted. If you look at the product pages for any product it now lists "Install types". It will either list "Daz Connect" or "Encrypted Daz Connect". if it doesn't say encrypted Daz Connect, then it isn't encrypted. That means that your scripts will still work on everything that they used to, but you are correct in that they would not work against encrypted content.
Since you asked, I will answer. And I will state, as I did in another thread, that I have no current plans to upgrade to 4.9.
I do 90+% of my work on a laptop while I am not home. Many of these times I will either have no internet connection or an expensive one.
Unencrypted files means that I have one less item to worry about while I am in transit. I don't have to worry about suddenly not having a key. Or a recent Microsoft update altering my machines DNA just enough so that it is not recognized as the same machine anymore. Or any one of countless little caveats that can occur and suddenly find myself locked out. With either no way of unlocking (no internet connection) or an expensive way.
Don't say it won't happen, because it wil. To quote Bender in Breakfast Club: "Screws fall out all the time, the world is an imperfect place."
It will be my luck that said screw will drop out the very first day of a long trip. It might be because I happened to plug a different wireless card in. Or I had to reparition my hardware. Or any unforesen event that comes up.
For example, earlier you said that even if DAZ ceases to exist you will still have access to your files. However, you are contradicting that with your own statement. Take this scenerio, however implausible:
1. Tomorrow, DAZ has gone bankrupt.
2. That's okay, I've gotten all my files downloaded and backed up.
3. My computer shorts. I buy a new one.
4. Key no longer works, because it was tied to that computer. And I have no way to generate a new one.
5. No more DAZ content.
In that scenerio, my 10+ years of purchases, approximately 6,200+ purchases, are now no longer mine.
As long as you keep your computer... when you change it, you cannot revalidate it so bye bye baby... welcome to DRM land, the place where you can lose ovenight 1000s of $
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@Mattymax: it is a question of trust. Trust, that thing that it is so difficult to build, so easy to lose and so impossible to rebuild. DAZ as a firm is no more (and not from today) in the list of entities I trust. Now I will just sit on the river bank, waiting for the inevitable woes to hit the people who will go this way.
Well, its not exactly an encouraging rollout. My main issue is the apparent backtracking on daz connect only content. To say one thing and then do the opposite at the first chance one has is not exactly going to reinforce your customer's faith in you. Honestly I would have purchased 2 of the connect only items had they been available for DIM install.. Which brings another concern to mind. That of "how long will DIM be an option?".
I have been a very loyal customer of DAZ3D for a few years now and I am not a criminal. Why should I have to be inconvenienced or forced to go along with this encryption scheme? Why should I be treated as a criminal?
I work in IT. I understand that software piracy is an issue. I admit to having no real idea just how much of an issue it is as relates to 3D content . Just not soemthing I have researched. I've been too busy making pictures with my content that I purchased. Legitimately. From recognized content providers.
However, since I work in IT, I have a firsthand knowledge of how DRM screws up productivity. I can't even BEGIN to guess how many hours I have spent working with users and software vendors to "fix" or develop work-arounds so that one of my users can DO THEIR WORK using the software that the company needs them to use. Encryption and other various DRM methods are not the way to go. They dont even begin to address the problem. They MIGHT slow an individual pirate down for an hour or two but its not the individual pirate anyone has to worry about anymore. The software pirates know how to leverage the capabilities of various internt based communications better than most of us ever will. They coordinate their efforts. Just ask any of the movie studios, game companies, or Adobe, Microsoft, and Apple. They figured out a long time ago that theres really not much you can do. Adobe went with a subscription model for its various offerings and while it has been moderately successful in reducing the piracy impact, Adobe software suites are still some of the most pirated software out there. Apple basically gave up on DRM for music becaue of both customer ire and the fact that they could not keep ahead of the pirates. Microsft and Apple have started giving away their operating systems because otherwise it is not profitable to them as companies to do so. New operating systems from those companies- complete with updates and serial number or install hacks would be available for download within HOURS of being released to the general public.
I do sympathize with the content providers that are impacted by software piracy. Especially the ones for whom it is the only source of income. But I also sympathize with the legitimate user who does not want to have to deal with the extra hoops to jump through, the probably issues that will result from bad coding, incompatibilies, and other glitches associated with DRM. Nodbody wants to be stuck in a walled garden.
My biggest concern about encryption is that, in the future, they will change the license so that my purchase only covers one computer, and they apply this retroactively to older content. I have Daz Studio on two computers, and will soon be investing some big bucks on a machine customized to render Daz content quickly.
I think he was reffering to how things play out over time. I jsut recently changed my network drivers and had to reauthroize Vue Infinite before I could use it again (not a change in hardware, jsut switched the drivers used for it). It's not hard to imagine becoming more and more locked out of our content, or limitations on how many computers we can load the content on (e.g. do design work on one and render on another). Will the PC+ items be encrypted? Some kind of subscription model is not hard to imagine. COmpanies do stupid things all the time -- case in point the new DAZ logos, the new website rediesgn, so just because it seems like a terrible idea doesn't mean we wonly see it in a year or two. And then there are games.... Encryption never benefits consumers and never "gets better" and rearely stays where it is. So if this encryption thing works out for you, then we have every reason to believe that things will get worse for us down the road. I think it is a legitimate concern that DS will eventually go through and encrypt all out content whether we like it or not (or at least content purchased from DAZ). It could be slippped in a patch or soemthing. Not likely to happen now, but in two or three years, odds against it start dropping. I also have so much content that I do not have enough room to even import it into DS 4.9 since it will copy it in. So I'm stuck on 4.8 unless I buy a hard drive all so I can upgrade to the latest version (assuming I want it in the the new DC file structure, which does sound useful). This encryption is anti-consumer no matter how you spin it and will not likely deter pirates that much. I also do not like that DIM has in-effect been intergrated into DS. I liked to shop and download content while rendering, but now will not be able to (assuming rendering still ties up DS) and if DS crashes then my downloads went with it. It was much better as a separate tool. I am not seeing the benefits yet. And I'm a big spender, and my current purchasing/content downloading method has been working fine for me. Not sure why you want to alienate your best customers -- we are certainly the ones that have the most to lose by this encryption since we have the most content.
That's good to know. But what prevents you from changing soemthong to be encrypted? I am not going to check every store page to make sure my already purchased content is safe from encrpytion. And I have soem old products that do not even have a store page. The old stuff won't be encrypted I hear, but then again, we already have encrypted only content now which goes agaisnt what we were being told in earlier threads. You have already undermined your credibility.
It seems the majority of your customers, including myself, are overwhelmingly against this... Does that count for anything? What happens if all of those same customers just refused to buy any of the new encryption-only content? You guys are building some ill-will on an epic scale.
In the end, I fear that this is going to have a massively negative effect on the very vendors who we ALL want to support and protect. As history has continuously proven and as has been stated too many times to count in this forum, DRM schemes do not work. They are a very minor annoyance for pirates and traditionally have a catastrophic effect on artist/vendors through loss of sales. Should we do nothing?? Of course not! We should continue to support our favorite artists/vendors by purchasing their products. DRM will not bring new customers, but it will most certainly alienate current customers.
What about those of us who live in countries (such as the UK) whose government wants to ban or stop encryption? If they ever do, where does that leave us?
There are things being said in one thread about Daz Connect and Encryption, and then seem to be contradicted in another.
I've dreaded this day. I didn't think it would be here so quickly. I have questions, but, because of my ASD, I have no idea how to word them... Which is also making the subject of 4.9/encryption/connect a little harder to understand.
I truly get this and I am all in favor of this. heck, I have even reported pirated content to DAZ, but I am still unsure of how this will solve the issue without causing undue stress to legit users. I am a modeler and constantly import/export mesh thru various different modeling apps when working on personal projects, including DAZ content. As a moral, ethical person, I don't share or upload any DAZ assets, but how would this new encryption keep extracted mesh from being uploaded to a pirate site, or is it handled at the export process somehow. I am NOT looking for a way around the encryption, just wanting to understand how/if this will affect my workflow.
Our content is a lot more than just the mesh. If a pirate exported out an FBX or OBJ and shared it calling it Victoria 7, it would be less useful than the actual full product, and the work it would take to bring back into Daz and make it work like the original product with just the data in an OBJ or FBX or other format is a lot of work and requires a level of knowledge most don't have. There is so much stuff which is Daz Studio specific functionality that you lose on export that sharing the export would be similar to pirating a movie by recording it with your phone camera in a dark theatre. Some people will still attempt to download and watch it, but it will be way worse of an experience than actually watching it in the theatre or on Blu-ray or DVD. I'm not saying it is "okay" to share exported content as it is still against the EULA, but it also means those that want to use it pirated in that way aren't getting near the full value of the product through legitimate means.
That being said, these changes shouldn't have an impact on exporting and importing content if that is how you work with it.
OK, so I'm one of those who uses DS on a non-internet-connected PC. I download (using DIM) all my files on a laptop with internet access, then copy them over on a shared drive to the other PC where I install them (also using DIM).
We were promised in the Beta thread some time ago that there would be a method for us to download these new encrypted files. What is it, please? (I haven't bought any of today's releases so this isn't a huge problem for me today, but maybe the next encrypted release will be of interest to me)
From the faq:
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/990392/#Comment_990392
You can still export formats (such as FBX) even of encrypted content. As FBX is not as rich as DUF, we feel strongly that customers will still prefer to buy a DUF file rather than steal an FBX. We have specifically still left exporting and importing of content as an available function to enable users just like yourself.
In the even that any business practices become regulated differently, we will obviously take steps to conform to binding laws.
There are two valid points I have seeen in this thread, so I'd like to address both (and a third issue as well):
1- What if Daz goes away?
2- I have cool scripts now. Would be cool if they could work on new content as well.
3- I'm not a criminal, why treat me like one.
What if Daz Goes away:
Point taken. We already have plans to look a methods to "unlock" content in the event of our demise. Expect to see advancements here.
Cool scripts:
Understood. We will look at how to work with Published Artists to give them the ability to write tools that will still do cool stuff with new content. Expect to see advancements here as well.
I'm not a crook. Why treat me like one:
Sadly, crooked people don't wear signs. Even when they are dientifiable, there would be a lot of effort and cost into chasing them down individually to do anything about it. In the event that they are out of the country this is much harder and costlier to do. Even the ones that seem easier, we run the risk of being further perceived as "Big Bad Daz" if we go after someone. As such, encryption, though not fool-proof, is much like locks on doors and windows in your homes... They help keep honest people honest and hopefully avoid the problem instead of trying to deal with it after the fact.
Thank you
Apperantly it wipes out custom cetegories one creates deal breaker for me..
I'm not concerned about encryption... I'm concerned about the fact that I rearrange all my install directories. I absolutely won't do that in my live database (its big and messy in there). I install into a test library.. I test the products (frequently there are errors and or they don't work), and I set up the directories the way I want for Content Library viewing. When I'm happy with the test database, I copy it over to the main library. (Yes... reinstalls are a bitch but that's OK.. Daz can't tell me what rev I have anyways.) I'm sorry, for using Daz the way is was provided to me and explained to me. But that's what I do.
Daz Connect is unusable if I can't follow that process for installs. Period.
The feature I'd kill for is a revision number of downloaded files, but that's rocket science around here.
Update on this (Sorry, my mistake for not realizing the answer before): Although content cannot be modified on disk by scripts when encrypted, it can be modified throguh the API once loaded (and if needed could then be saved out). Key Published Artists who have historically provided script based products have been informed the "new" way to do most of what they used to do. So most of that stuff can still be done to the encrypted content.
No it does not. It kept my customized categories perfectly.
OK. which is it? You have plans to look at ways to unlock the content? Or do you HAVE a " poison pill" option already as was definitevely stated by another member of the company back when all this started? A correct, current and true answer would be much appreciated here. There have been so many flip-flops on this subject of late - coming from DAZ3D no less- that I have no idea what to believe or what level of discomfort/comfort is apropriate here.
It is written, but not compiled or tested (we've been focused on getting the release out for now). So the answer is "yes and no". Yes, we have written it, no I can't say it's done until it is verified.
Really cool on the other the DS4.9 forum folks are mention losing theirs. Just to make sure we are on the same page you mean like this right?
Yep! All the categories I set up show in Content Library and in Smart Content. Be sure they weren't talking about the Beta
Note, I did not change install paths or anything, I set up the categories using the Content Library. (where you right click and Categorize) If folks fiddle with install paths, I have no clue about that.
Greetings,
The $20 BILLION business (in 2015 alone!) that is the Apple app store begs to differ on the viability of DRM-enabled content and the 'catastrophic' effect on vendors.
I haven't picked up any of the 4.9 encrypted content, but that's mainly because I'm not in a position to drop $49 on other stuff right now. :) The medieval storage room looks cool though, and it's on my wishlist.
One thing I would have liked to have seen is a marginally lower base price on encrypted-only content. Not a lot, but where it fits into the price chart should be a smidge lower than non-encrypted-only content. Why? Because the underlying theory is to reduce piracy. If you take the estimated reasonable losses on piracy, average it out per product, then divide that by (say) 2, that should be (roughly) the discount. That bakes in a small increase in profit, and reduces the price to the end users at the same time. Just a thought.
-- Morgan
Same here I just clicked from where they were installed I don't use SC or DIM
Hm. Well, okay.
I love Daz. I work essentially exclusively in Daz. I have spent far more money with Daz than I should. It's essentially where all my recreational money goes. I'm okay with that.
However, encrypted files are problematic for me in two ways -- workflow and confidence.
Encrypted files break this model entirely. I'll have to download those files from the server and decrypt them every time. In effect, I'll have to maintain a second build. Absent Daz allowing me to submit a render job to that machine from my laptop directly (and seriously -- why doesn't it do that?) my maintenance time has increased if I'm going to continue to use Daz content, since I have to assume any new content I want will be encrypted this way. Trying to maintain a CMS on that machine may cause issues with the scenes I send over as well, since it's easier to confuse two seperate CMS systems than it is to just run a scene that's grabbing files.
So what happens to my content when Daz goes out of business?
No, I'm not predicting a mass walkaway based on this model -- but if someone else brings out a 3D Modelling package that's easier, more flexible, less expensive and has better looking results (and it will happen -- technology always moves forward, and Daz won't always be able to stay on the forefront) and Daz is forced by that or some other economic factor to shut its doors, what happens when I need to reinstall Daz? Right now, so long as I maintain an archive of DIMs and Zip files, I can do that. But as of... well, today there is product that I can buy from Daz which can't be reactivated if Daz goes away.
And that means I'd better not get any more updates and I'd better buy only DIMs from Daz and third party content moving forward -- because sooner or later that encrypted content will not work. It's inevitable.
(What will work? The content people will almost certainly export from the encrypted content, then reinport into Daz as .obj files or the like, then put up for piracy -- meaning the inevitable cracked and pirated content will be more reliable in the long run than the purchased content. This is not a winning strategy. See also: every other content provider on the planet. Trust me: if Amazon offers an option to publishers to make their Kindle content unencrypted on their site because the encrypted content is so problematic to so many -- and they do -- I promise you Daz is not going to be immune from the phenomenon.)
(Edit from later: Steve says that he's confident that people will prefer the richer DUF files to the less... rich... FBX files. As I recall, Apple said that no one would pirate MP3 versions of their songs when the superior AAC files were so much better. As I said elsewhere -- if places like Apple were wrong about this, then for a company like Daz to think they're right about it is... well, hubris. And hubris never works out.)
This is honestly true. I stipulate exactly what you're saying.
Unfortunately, that doesn't mitigate the point at all. Because a small number of people aren't trustworthy, Daz is treating everyone like they are untrustworthy.
The problem with that, once again, is that pirates are going to crack the content and put it up for download. They always -- always -- do. So long as Daz doesn't become so closed an ecosystem that exporting scenes to other formats becomes impossible, there's no way to stop it. (If Daz does do that then Daz is in way more trouble than this, since all the people who want to use Daz as a front end of a workflow that ends in 3DSMAX, Maya or some other tool won't be able to any more -- or 3D Print Daz creations, for that matter. And even without that -- no DRM/encryption system has ever stopped decryption and piracy. Ever. The likelihood that Daz's system is that superior to what's out there now is negligable). This again means that the pirates aren't deterred or stopped. It also means -- as I said above -- that the pirated version of the content will be more useful and valuable to modelers and producers than the purchased content.
You mentioned MP3s and how 3D assets are different. Only, they're not. All digital assets are designed to be used by people for some purpose. Encryption always makes them less useful or harder to work with, and gives people an active reason to turn to pirated versions that are more broadly useful instead. The difference here is Apple was selling millions of dollars of their DRM'd music a day despite this. Daz has a much smaller consumer base who spend a lot less money. Giving a broader number of those users reason to seek out the pirated, unencrypted version of content hurts Daz's bottom line significantly more than doing the same thing hurt Apple's bottom line, because there aren't nearly as many of them.
I like Daz a lot. I love using Daz. I love Iray. I want to keep using Daz for everything I'm doing. And yeah, I'm almost certainly going to buy some encrypted content.
But I'm now a much harder sell than I was, because that content is now going to be less convenient for me to use, take more time, will fail if for whatever reason I can't reauthenticate it after reinstalling the software, and comes from a position that I as a customer am thought ill of by the company. And in the meantime -- check it out. Renderosity's got a sale going and all their stuff's unencrypted.
This was a bad idea.
I'll list some of what can happen with Digital Right Managed and Maintained products & Software. so you can address them one at a time. if the mods don't remove it first.
1) It breaks compatibility with other older 3d software completely. its also breaks any work around, one may have had for later compatibility issues that were fixed by scripts ( Im speaking as animator using daz)..
2) It breaks a lot of script access for bug fixes that individuals have come up with ourselves.like the duplicate-ID issue etc. The genesis feet off-set, etc.
3) DRM takes the control away on how to store and back up paid for daz3d content. Lets face it there no sense in backing up content file that are encrypted, if you can't get connected to unencrypted them in the future, Because of a situations (pick one). Daz has gone out of business.OR Daz connect server is down or been hacked, which Xbox has experienced recently and issued a a patch for it.
4) DRM content can be hacked & pirated which happened with (Read Adobe creative cloud Pirated) after being released...,, my concern is what happens in the distant future when Daz has done a major update to the encryption and updates to the DRM server and the user can not update( for what ever reason) to that encryption. it makes backing content useless.
5) My biggest concern is and there is no way you can guarantee it won't happen is the encrypted files & DRM server gets Hacked or become infected by a malware that may allow a third party access thought the DRM servers to the user systems. I already block 50 plus third party ad agacy's tracking cookies & Ad becons on this site so I'm very leery of anything I'm being told by daz. DRM Maybe good for daz. But i don't feel safe with DRM sorry daz. these are just some of my concerns.