Reality 4.1 - September 21st

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  • mtl1mtl1 Posts: 1,508

    Hi all,

    I've read the whole thread through and still can't find an answer: how much faster is Reality to Iray if you compare the CPU-only modes?

    My personal configuration is: an Intel Core i3-4130 CPU 3.40GHz, 8GB of RAM and an onboard AMD CrossFireX graphics card (from the GIGABYTE GA-Z97P-D3 motherboard). Since I have an AMD graphics card I can't use GPU mode for Iray, and always render in CPU mode. On the average my renders with standard settings (5000 samples) take 2-3 hours. A decent GPU card costs 150 euros, the Reality plugin at the moment is 17.98 with my Rev-Up discount. 

    So, my two questions:

    1.How much faster is Reality CPU-mode vs Iray CPU-mode? (The only mention I've seen in numbers is that it's around 50 minutes for Intel i7, which is not very promising.)

    2.Would I be able to use my small-bad-onboard GPU with Reality? Or would it be a total disaster, since it's too small/bad/onboard?

     

    Bobvan said:

    Ok cpu accelerated rendered https://www.flickr.com/photos/37909888@N05/21009973883/in/dateposted-public/ cpu only approx 45 to 50 minutes with sss taken off. https://www.flickr.com/photos/37909888@N05/21444376539/in/dateposted-public/ GPU gets strange artifacts. I can render with iray 10 to 15 minutes.  My config  https://www.flickr.com/photos/37909888@N05/21008299104/in/dateposted-public/

     

    nDelphi said:

    Your processor has more than the basic needed for the new features in LuxRender 1.5. You should be seeing better results than what you are showing.

     

    That's a difficult question to answer because the final product of iray and Reality are pretty different from each other. I'll try to answer the best I can:

    1. Reality, with CPU acceleration, is much faster than iray. However, a lot of this is dependent on several things, with the most important being LuxRender not really having an "end" to the render. Every render will have a different Samples per pixel number that will be acceptable -- especially well-lit versus low-light -- whereas iray works on convergence.

    2. LuxRender scales directly with multiple threads and cores, so getting your GPU to work in tandem with your render in OpenCL mode is clearly beneficial -- if you can get it working. Other posters here have gotten it to work for them, but my computer doesn't seem to behave for some reason :D There's also a significant bug with SSS and LuxRender at the moment, so keep that in mind.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,352
    edited September 2015
    ronmolina said:
    RAMWolff said:

    Very very annoying.  I have 8 cameras and multiple lights in the scene and it's telling me I have none, to add one.  Uh, OK, so I added a distance light, that took care of that complaint but there are literally 8 cameras in the scene and it's not "seeing" any of those?  Weird! 

    Check your options in  Reality and make sure you have things selected and turned on or they will not be seen.

     

    mtl1, everything else is showing up so I guess it's synced

    Ron, the cameras are all on so not sure why they are not showing.  I created a new camera and that shows up!  Weird!

    What I'm also not understanding is that if I have an object turned off in the scene IT WILL RENDER but if I have a camera or a light source off it will not show up in the lights or camera pane?  OK, that's messed up.  If I have an object turned off then Reality should respect that and not render it.  Currently I have a ground plane with a sand texture on it, it's turned off but in the render it's showing it turned on and rendering... frown

    Post edited by RAMWolff on
  • scorpioscorpio Posts: 8,533
    RAMWolff said:
    ronmolina said:
    RAMWolff said:

    Very very annoying.  I have 8 cameras and multiple lights in the scene and it's telling me I have none, to add one.  Uh, OK, so I added a distance light, that took care of that complaint but there are literally 8 cameras in the scene and it's not "seeing" any of those?  Weird! 

    Check your options in  Reality and make sure you have things selected and turned on or they will not be seen.

     

    mtl1, everything else is showing up so I guess it's synced

    Ron, the cameras are all on so not sure why they are not showing.  I created a new camera and that shows up!  Weird!

    What I'm also not understanding is that if I have an object turned off in the scene IT WILL RENDER but if I have a camera or a light source off it will not show up in the lights or camera pane?  OK, that's messed up.  If I have an object turned off then Reality should respect that and not render it.  Currently I have a ground plane with a sand texture on it, it's turned off but in the render it's showing it turned on and rendering... frown

     

     Reality seems to have a problem with items hidden in scenes saved prior to the installation of Reality 4.1 - real pain in the butt.

     

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,352

    Interesting.  Might be why my previously created cameras and lights were not showing up!  Bad code in my opinion. 

  • BobvanBobvan Posts: 2,653
    edited September 2015

    Not sure what happened it may have been switching the lights in my scene but CPU accelerated plus boost is working killer now! One thing that helps alot is to pre adjust lights and have them all in one group..

    Post edited by Bobvan on
  • mtl1mtl1 Posts: 1,508

    Since LuxRender 1.5 is out, I'm considering reviving a few old laptops and see how well they do as network renderers for Reality, given the massive bump in CPU performance. I already get 60-80kS/s in a typical scene on a 4790k, for reference.

  • icecrmn said:

    "fireflies" are caused by the lights, reflective surfaces can make it a bit of a challenge at times to fix.I ran into this not long ago in a render I did for one of the monthly contests.

    The really bright ones are from the lights, the smaller dull colored ones are from a a lack of convergence.Post a screen shot if can, then a few more people can see it and maybe offer some advise.


    Yes, the problem is in the skin. However, my render is a nude and I can not show here . I will make another version to show. Frustration over me. I have a lot of problems to light interiors. I still have slow scenes despite acceleration. I know, is my own problemfrown.
     

  • icecrmn said:

    "fireflies" are caused by the lights, reflective surfaces can make it a bit of a challenge at times to fix.I ran into this not long ago in a render I did for one of the monthly contests.

    The really bright ones are from the lights, the smaller dull colored ones are from a a lack of convergence.Post a screen shot if can, then a few more people can see it and maybe offer some advise.


    Yes, the problem is in the skin. However, my render is a nude and I can not show here . I will make another version to show. Frustration over me. I have a lot of problems to light interiors. I still have slow scenes despite acceleration. I know, is my own problemfrown.
     

  • icecrmn said:

    "fireflies" are caused by the lights, reflective surfaces can make it a bit of a challenge at times to fix.I ran into this not long ago in a render I did for one of the monthly contests.

    The really bright ones are from the lights, the smaller dull colored ones are from a a lack of convergence.Post a screen shot if can, then a few more people can see it and maybe offer some advise.


    Yes, the problem is in the skin. However, my render is a nude and I can not show here . I will make another version to show. Frustration over me. I have a lot of problems to light interiors. I still have slow scenes despite acceleration. I know, is my own problemfrown.
     

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,352

    I'm finding that adding just one distance light makes the scene very very bright with very stark shadows, which I don't really like.  The supposed interactive thing... doesn't seem to work for me.  I lowered the lights intensity in both Reality and in DS and expected that to be updated and reflected in the current render but doesn't seem to do that unless I'm mistaken about how that all works... frown

  • vwranglervwrangler Posts: 4,973
    RAMWolff said:

    I'm finding that adding just one distance light makes the scene very very bright with very stark shadows, which I don't really like.  The supposed interactive thing... doesn't seem to work for me.  I lowered the lights intensity in both Reality and in DS and expected that to be updated and reflected in the current render but doesn't seem to do that unless I'm mistaken about how that all works... frown

    You don't lower the light intensity in Reality for that; you lower the light group intensity in Lux Render itself.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,352

    Oh, that's what I meant.  In the main Lux Render panel that pops up (the glaring white one) there is that tab for light.  I lowered the intensity there but was still just as bright. 

  • vwranglervwrangler Posts: 4,973
    RAMWolff said:

    Oh, that's what I meant.  In the main Lux Render panel that pops up (the glaring white one) there is that tab for light.  I lowered the intensity there but was still just as bright. 

    Well, then it depends on what light groups you had and their relative intensities. Depending on what you've got, you may have one groiup so strong that the rest aren't doing much. Without seeing the scene and the panel, it's kind of hard to say.

  • IceCrMnIceCrMn Posts: 2,322
    RAMWolff said:

    I'm finding that adding just one distance light makes the scene very very bright with very stark shadows, which I don't really like.  The supposed interactive thing... doesn't seem to work for me.  I lowered the lights intensity in both Reality and in DS and expected that to be updated and reflected in the current render but doesn't seem to do that unless I'm mistaken about how that all works... frown

    on lux under Tone mapping make sure you are using the Linear kernel.Then press the estimate settings button to get a decent setting for the camera.On the light group tab you just need to slide the slider to make changes in realtime,,it may take a few moments to redo the tone mapping to your changes/On the bottom center in "Activity" you can see if it's tonemapping.in the Reality tab for lights, you can change the names for each light before you export to lux so that you have sliders for each light if you would like. :)

    once you export your scene form reality by clicking the render button you can continue to work in Studio.When you make a change to your scene in Studio the Reality UI should detect that.When it does you will need to click the render button again to export your new changes to the scene, this will start a new instance of luxrender.You can't make scene changes on the fly from the editor to the render engine,,,,yet,,,I'm sure someone will figure that one out though.

    after you start your render in lux neither Studio nor Reality are needed and can be closed if you would like to do so :)

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,352

    Yea, render is very harsh looking and I'm getting those funny white delineated lines over the surface of her skin but there is NO SSS!  So not sure if it's SSS that's really the problem.  These shaders are my new product I'm working on so they are very very basic right now! 

  • mtl1mtl1 Posts: 1,508
    RAMWolff said:

    Yea, render is very harsh looking and I'm getting those funny white delineated lines over the surface of her skin but there is NO SSS!  So not sure if it's SSS that's really the problem.  These shaders are my new product I'm working on so they are very very basic right now! 

    I had this problem too. Turns out the problem was using distant lights instead of spot lights or Reality mesh lights :(

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,352
    edited September 2015

    Yea, found a good way to work around that.  Taking Mr. Ice's advice I set the Kernal to Linear from Auto Linear and I was able to control the Film ISO, Shutter, f-stop and gamma.  My settings right now using two distance and one spot (Dis 01 set to 76, Dis 02 set to 67 and the spot set to 49) are

    Film ISO: 200.00 / 200.00

    Shutter: User / 0.058

    f-stop: User / 4.50

    Gamma: Presets / 2.00

    Skin looks nice so far, tone is pretty  much right on and the brightness is very nice without that funny glare that's been making those funny lines on the skin...

    Post edited by RAMWolff on
  • mtl1mtl1 Posts: 1,508
    edited September 2015

    Oh right, I forgot about Auto-Linear mode. That can cause issues too...

    I'm experimenting with OpenCL now and I *still* can't get it working. Is there any one-click method to turn off all the SSS elements within a scene?

     

    edit: Actually, speak of the devil, it's rendering! With 760kS/s too...

    Post edited by mtl1 on
  • IceCrMnIceCrMn Posts: 2,322
    mtl1 said:

    Oh right, I forgot about Auto-Linear mode. That can cause issues too...

    I'm experimenting with OpenCL now and I *still* can't get it working. Is there any one-click method to turn off all the SSS elements within a scene?

     

    edit: Actually, speak of the devil, it's rendering! With 760kS/s too...

    I don't know how to do a whole scene , but you can do the characters by expanding the character on the materials tab then selecting the first surface, then press and hold the shift key and select the last surface and all the ones in between will get selected.Then you you can uncheck the SSS box for all of them at once.I had to go back and do the lips again for some reason though.

  • BobvanBobvan Posts: 2,653
    edited September 2015

    I have been working with Reality / lux for 3 plus years. I managed to successfully run all modes. This may be short lived since the cpu open cl I installed may be clashing with my nvdia. Everytime I wake the machine there is an nvidia recovery error message. I will say the speed has greatly improved specially from 4.0 which was slower then 2.5 due to SSS volumes. Is it 20x faster I would say no IMO. I still would need close to an hour to clear things up. One scene where the characters are far clears up fast with cpu boost but when setting a close up its better to use GPU. Iray is faster IMO it may be due to having a decent nvidia GPU. Having both in my arsenal is bonus!

    Post edited by Bobvan on
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,352

    Well my settings must be off.  Anyone in the know can look at those settings... the whole thing was a bit blurry.  I don't mind a bit of that to keep things soft edged but it's all a bit TOO much of that!  Any ideas of those settings or anything else to look at in the scene set up? 

  • mtl1mtl1 Posts: 1,508
    edited September 2015

    Bobvan, I updated my nVidia drivers today and it seemingly cleared up the issues I had last night. Granted, it wasn't an nVidia recovery message but at least it behaves.

    icecrmn, yeah I was hoping that it *wasn't* ctrl-clicking them :( I wish there was a better solution.

     

    edit: I've discovered something else about Metropolis versus Sobol algorithms. If OpenCL is being used, then using Metropolis will cause LuxRender to throw a memory-related error -- that the memory size cannot be allocated to the GPU. I've tried shrinking down the scene but nothing seems to work. I'll try a very basic scene later, perhaps tomorrow.

    Post edited by mtl1 on
  • BobvanBobvan Posts: 2,653
    edited September 2015

    I checked it told me I had the latest drivers as long as it does not crash the machine im not too worried. This my asus ROG 24G laptop with GTX980m my tower's AMD fire pro W5000 was acting up. Due to what we do I always purchase extra coverage, so thanks to that I just have to pay a bit extra and getting a GTX980 in the tower as well. I wil lbe making alot of use out of iray.. My Reality experience is what eased my transition to iray..

    Post edited by Bobvan on
  • IsazformsIsazforms Posts: 210
    edited September 2015

    Sorry for multipost. My internet fails. sad Some administrator can delete my repeated comments please? By the way I cant find car paint preset.
     

     

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    Post edited by Isazforms on
  • riftwitchriftwitch Posts: 1,439

    I installed Reality, and now D/S won't load. The startup screen shows, then I get the following error message:

    image

    I've looked in Programs, but I can't find Reality listed, so I'm not sure how to uninstall it. I'll give it a try tomorrow evening.

    DAZ_Reality Falal Error.png
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  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,925

    So in GPU mode, you need to let it render for several minutes before it shows anything on screen. But in my case, the first time it tries to show something on screen, it resets my video drivers and luxrenders appears to continue to work, but it's clearly not doing anything anymore. So that pretty much makes luxrender and reality useless for me for the time being.

    edit: Ah you know what? I got something to render in GPU mode with another scene, but it's using the wrong camera. It's using the perspective camera. That's probably what was wrong with the other scene. Still, this is kinda bad.

    edit2: Actually no. It's rendering from a strange POV that isn't either the perspective camera or Camera 1. There are no other cameras in the scene. Very weird.

     

     

    ...I had that happen with regularity after one of the patches to 4.0 was issued and it was so frustrating I ended up uninstalling Reality and Lux. Sounds like that same bug is still there.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,925
    nDelphi said:
    nDelphi said:

    Did you have extra boost ticked?

    That makes the render a little bit more bias.

    Yes, I do. I will do a test without and see.

    I am rendering a test without the extra boost and it fixed the digitized look of the image, but the lighting has remained the same. It seem there is a difference in lighting with LuxRender 1.5 and the older ones.

    ...so speed boost is in a sense something of a compromise in that it actually adds a noticeable amount of bias to the process as a tradeoff for shorter tender times. If I don't turn it on, then I'm most likely back to the glacially long render times as I have an old Nehalem i7 930 (two versions before Sandy Bridge which is the first to incorporate AVX).

    I also thought that Lux scrapped further development of the Hybrid CPU/GPU mode as it offered little in the way of speed advantage and had stability issues.

  • mtl1mtl1 Posts: 1,508
    riftwitch said:

    I installed Reality, and now D/S won't load. The startup screen shows, then I get the following error message:

    image

    I've looked in Programs, but I can't find Reality listed, so I'm not sure how to uninstall it. I'll give it a try tomorrow evening.

    Reality should install a dll inside your plugins directory, I believe. The rest is in your program files \ reality_ds directory

  • Here is my attempt at 4.1

    oddly, in photoshop it is somewhat see thru. but when viewing with a standard photo viewer (windows) it is solid.

    it rendered for about 6 hours while I slept overnight.

    Reality 4-1_decoyboy.jpg
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  • bighbigh Posts: 8,147
    Decoyboy said:

    Here is my attempt at 4.1

    oddly, in photoshop it is somewhat see thru. but when viewing with a standard photo viewer (windows) it is solid.

    it rendered for about 6 hours while I slept overnight.

    for real - 6 hours ?

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