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Hi wowie,
I'm very impressed by your renders. That only can be iRay.
But if you state "No lights, pure ray tracing" so is the question, what light causes the reflection on the golden figure? What is the max trace distance setting for your "pure bounce"?
Your renders are pretty quick for bounce.
OK, but now a different problem.
I often used an environment built with different elements of the "aikanaro" (base content "since ever"). As I converted it to iRay, I had to increase the resolution of the diffuse texture maps due to strange artefacts (see attachment).
Now I wanted to do some 3Delight tests again with this set. Of cause DAZ uses the current textures (which I doubled in resolution - reason see above) and 3Delight crashed with insufficient memory usage at round 3GB (my systen can support up to 27GB).
The only suggestion of the helpdesk was to use the old low res textures for 3Delight (and of cause the high res textures for iRay).
Generalized that means in this case I have to use two different complete content libraries for all products depending whether for 3Delight or iRay !!
Those suggestions really can't be serious.
3delight runs textures through TDLMake to create MipMapped versions - a series of decreasing resolutions - and then passes the appropriate sizes for the render to the main engine. I suspect there may be a formatting glitch in one of the images rather than pure size - try saving in a different format.
Hm,
perhaps it is possible, that the TDLMake has a limit for what the texture sizes are too big? I "only" set the textures to 2x size. So 5000 x 5000 pix is the max format as .jpg
It's only the usual error message of "access violation", which I suppose corresponds to "index out of range" in some other programming languages.
If you may have a look at scene file and materials: http://sta.sh/2zz1d09oxbw
Otherwise I really have to re-rework the settings for the 3Delight version of that set.
It already was a very lot of work to transform it to iRay.
Maybe the texture has an issue like Richard thinks. Found this online and it seems it has a problem with large tiff files. Nothing about jpg. https://3delight.atlassian.net/wiki/display/3DSP/Using+the+Texture+Optimizer+-+tdlmake
Pure ray tracing is done with an environment sphere and a HDRI loaded into the ambient slot. So, no environment mapping used. The UE2 render uses BounceGI mode with a max trace distance of 1100 (scene is completely inside the sphere). The reflection on the objects are purely raytraced from the environment (at a max ray trace depth of 12). Max trace distance for specular/reflection? Basically, none (infinity).
Iray doesn't have a monopoly on physically based rendering. Never did.
I'm still amazed by how fast 3delight can be. And this is still WITHOUT using Russian roulette. My shader just use BRDF importance sampling from the new 3delight shadeops combined with an adaptive sampling approach.
Thank you Kettu for showing the way.
Rule of thumb - use power of 2 textures (2048,4096,8192). I've used larger maps than 5000x5000, no problems with 4.7. It does takes a while to convert them though.
The best thing about using pixel samples 12x12 - DOF is basically 'free'.
Without UE2. 3 minutes 25.73 seconds. Same set, same settings as before. Shaders updated though. Coat is now available (though not used here). Unfortunately, the builtin 3delight thinfilm isn't supported with DS 4.7. So, I guess next is SSS.
I would love to start using 3DL again. The problem is that there are so many bugs and quirks to remember and trip over that it rapidly becomes frustrating.
When folks' recommendations to use 3DL involves coding new lights and shaders, you have a messed up situation. ;)
I have frequently hit the point where rendering a 3DL scene ends up taking longer than an equivalent Iray scene, and given I often don't find this out until after I've set up the scene, I just stop bothering.
(And in case anyone is wondering why I'm here just to complain, I'm not, I'm plaintively encouraging you smart people to produce some stuff to make the experience easier)
Hi wowie,
I too thought, that even bigger texture files shouldn't be areal problem. It was the help desk who ordered me to reduce the textures to low res. And he stated that my system only would offer 3GB memory totally ignoring my screenprint showing 23GB of available system memory. But perhaps the number of elements used in the set drove the software to an internal limit for texture variables. The set is completely surrounded by the walls.
3Delight is a production renderer that was built to cope with like terabytes of textures. I could dig up some statistics from companies like Image Engine, they're scary =)
But I've run into weird memory-related crashes when rendering "in DS", that is, just using the built-in version of 3Delight, myself. I'm on Win10 and I've had crashes whenever RAM usage approaches 4 GB (I have 8 GB, and other memory-intensive apps like Substance Painter do not crash). I suspect it's a DS thing.
My memory usage spikes because I render with lots of raytracing, though, not because of textures.
What I would suggest is try exporting your scene to a RIB (you're most likely not using "scripted rendering" so just tick the "collect and localise" checkbox to get a "portable" RIB inside a folder with all the required mipmaps and shaders) and rendering it in 3Delight Studio Pro standalone - it's free for 8 cores (if you have more, they just won't be used), its i-display utility is way more useful than the render window DS shows (it will show you your texture memory, among other things), and it's updated regularly while the DS built-in version dates from October 2015.
Another way to reduce memory usage is to decrease bucket size in render settings - it may slow the render down a little, though. 32x32 seems to be fairly safe in my experience.
@Wowie : Nice renders. I'm not sure what you mean with "no light". The scene must be illuminated otherwise it would render black ??
I don't ever use UE either because of an old bug but I may give it a try again just to see what I can get out of it
Fill a bug report. Your scene (which is a pain to open correctely because of bad naming of textures) crashes on my system at around 2 GB with DS 4.9
It renders without problem on DS 4.8. And I also tested with adding three genesis and it rendered with a memory footprint of 5 GB
I also tested with the original texture. I'm not sure of the problem you have and not sure doubling texture resolution is what should be done
I rendered with 64 samples only, so I see that some part need more samples but I don't think I got your artifacts
Eventually try an other shader than DS default and up your pixel samples in the render settings
I'm not sure there are that many bugs. The problem is rather 3delight's versatility. Some shaders should be used with certain settings and not mixed with some other shaders depending on how they were programmed.
You need some informations about the shaders to know in which context they should be used but I'm not sure that information is always available. I usually guess what's happening when reading some post but that's just guess
In my POV, Iray will often be an easier experience for DS users than 3delight because it's use is "unified". With 3delight you can have multiple techs that are coexisting.
The overhead on trying to grasp all that information, apply it, and diagnose problems... yeah, a unified approach is pretty attractive.
Which is a shame because there are things that just work better in 3dl (like subd and displacement), but I can't afford to lose a day going 'why is this render taking forever?'
Good advice.
...but don't expect much. // looks at a string of filed reports that have apparently gone ignored //
Hahahaha bug reports.
Hi Takeo,
Yes. No lights. Look back at my post. The dragon is dielectric so it renders black when I disable UE2.
On the render with UE2, it renders white. Glass and metals of course, gets their look from pure specular rays so indifferent to any diffuse only light (like UE2).
I've succesfully integrated all three types - glass, dieletric and metal - into a single shader. Configurable with two sliders, metalness and transmission (with values from 0 to 1), per PBR conventions. Technically, you shouldn't enable transmission when metalness is more than 0. Unless of course, you're Montgomery Scott.
Which actually is doable now. I only knew yesterday.
Hi Takeo,
yes, of cause.
Rendering with 3Delight, DAZ4.9 crashes, whereas 4.8 renders successfully with the higher res diffuse maps.
But I think you mixed something up. The artefacts I talked about appeared rendering with iRay for the low res textures.
As I raised the bug report, it was supposed to work with two different content libraries:
Where will this end .... ?
Hi Takeo,
and please let me say:
If you do your own experiments with iRay, you first have to transform the textures to iRay using the iray Uber shader.
And of cause change a lot: glossyness, Reflectivity, Bump, ...
Have you tried if lowering bucket size when rendering the hi-res version in 3Delight will alleviate the crash?
My Bucket Size is at 8.
No idea what bucket size Takeo used as he experienced the same crash.
8 is a tiny one, so yeah, there is definitely something wrong with the way DS manages memory. Unless you manage to get a crash in the standalone, which is unlikely... Have you tried the standalone?
Somehow I got lost in the last posts.
Is there something additional I have to purchase / install? Or how to?
First, get the standalone 3delight version here - http://www.3delight.com/en/index.php?page=3DSP_overview
Click on the 'Free Download' link on the list (right part of the page).
Unfortunately, they've stopped providing direct links, so you'll have to wait until your request is processed to get a download link.
Once that is done, install the download package and restart your system.
After that, re-open your problematic scene and do a .RIB export with 'Collect and Localize' checked. I'm still on 4.7 so it might be slightly different with newer builds.
To be clear, the inbuilt 3delight will still convert textures with TDLmake. This is just to troubleshoot the crash when rendering.
Personally, I've never had crashes when rendering with 3delight. Crashes with just DS are a different story.
No artifact in Iray whatever setting and shader I use. There is no need to use Iray Uber btw
Hi Takeo,
is this an iray render? Cause the image shows displacement structures which only appear on 3Delight with this set.
If you don't apply the iray Uber shader, iRay takes the existing materials setting and creates an own interpretation, which corresponds to your previous picture, but not this one.
So,
now I reloaded the original textures and at only 1GB mem usage the 3Delight render still crashes.
And: The heck who knows, after reloading the original textures from the downloaded file, there aren't any iRay artefact anymore.
No idea what happened to the texture files in the time I first got DAZ (4.6) and later iRay was introduced.
Yes it is. I just pushed up displacement
The first pics were 3delight but I didn't bother with displacement when I rendered them
So you may have played with crappy textures that were corrected after?
I had some reasons to do some modifications to one or two diffuse maps. Used a photoshop similar program and saved as .jpg again. But I think there are different jpg compression formats. Perhaps this was the reason.
But now with the original textures back, I don't understand the 3Delight crash.
Remark:
For this mesh Displacement don't work in iRay. IRay only shows the displacement structure, if the geometry elements (triangles) are smaller than the displacement structure.
Please find my demonstration over here: http://sta.sh/0q3s6v3utyd
and http://sta.sh/0q3s6v3utyd with Displacement SubD = 3 as a compare.
I was playing around with Scripted 3Delight and found some interesting results.
The first is standard G8 3DL materials with AoA Distant and Ambient light.
The second is Scripted 3DL with Point Based Occlusion, default settings and identical lighting. Does anybody know anything about Scripted 3Delight?
Also, I was curious about using the 3Delight Standalone, but all the threads regarding it are a few years old. Can it be used with the most recent Daz Studio?
Don't see why not. I've got 4.7 and the RIB exported renders fine with the latest standalone. Of course, the available builtin shaders and lights for DS are archaic compared to recent 3delight materials, so they're not using the renderer to its max potential.
Even with the default shaders and lights, I saw around 40% shorter render time with the new standalone. Without raycaching, it's around 30% on low samples. You can see my test results one page back (page73).
As for scripted renderering, I think DAZ only bundled two render script - outline and point based occlusion. Point based occlusion is faster but less accurate compared to raytraced occlusion (like UE2 and AoA Ambient light). But it can be useful in the right hands. I don't have much experience with it, since I prefer using UE2.
Sorry but Iray is not really the subject here so I wont talk about it further
I think you used different Gamma settings
Scripting allows to activate some options not available otherwise
The provided Point occlusion makes a two pass render. First one renders a point cloud and stores color information on sparse points of the scene. Second renders the scene with the point cloud informations
Should still be working