Show Us Your Iray Renders. Part II
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Thank you very much, MEC4D!
I guess you're talking about the "Lab Color Controller" part of the color-picker. Adobe tends to hide away vital parts of the UI to irritate their customers LOL.
On Vic 6's forehead the luminosity is mostly near or above the 72 limit, so I chose her cheeks instead to find something more fitting into the 68 range there. The corresponding RGB value now is 224 - 146 - 115, so that's the value I'll work with until someone might find a better one.
But I guess it's just as accurate as anything else since there are several roads leading to Rome.
Pulling the reds out of the texture I stopped at 180 to preserve the darkness of the eyebrows and removed anything else with the Rubber Tool.
You're welcome. I find it most of the time easier having a screenie to look at, the names of the tools are different in any language version, but the placing and icons will mostly be the same.
Than it's no wonder why she looked like a brit on summer vacation on Mallorca in my testrender LOL.
Thanks, I'll slap it all together and make a few renders. I'm sure Vic6 will look very different now.
ok, so while we wait to see if vendors are going to go the full PBR route and embrace new methods of making textures, who else is looking for ways to render old products that do not require outside manipulation of textures or rely on "extra" maps or "extra" bones?
We have a user base that has thousands of dollars invested in content, lots of it textures. They are not going to embrace Iray if it requires them to purchase all new content.
I'm not against the new developments, but I am one of those users who has a lot invested in this and I want to use it without having to manually prepare every texture I use.
What have you got? What are your best settings and why?
Most of the better stuff I have seen is approaching some nice realism, but has the standard, toned down specular that leaves skin looking too soft, flat and lifeless.
Anyone worked with diffuse roughness at all?Skin is not flat and smooth...
Actually it is good !! you need desaturate the map , to much color , use vibrant and play -20 to -50 other way it will get in conflict with translucent color
Thank you very much, MEC4D!
I guess you're talking about the "Lab Color Controller" part of the color-picker. Adobe tends to hide away vital parts of the UI to irritate their customers LOL.
On Vic 6's forehead the luminosity is mostly near or above the 72 limit, so I chose her cheeks instead to find something more fitting into the 68 range there. The corresponding RGB value now is 224 - 146 - 115, so that's the value I'll work with until someone might find a better one.
But I guess it's just as accurate as anything else since there are several roads leading to Rome.
Pulling the reds out of the texture I stopped at 180 to preserve the darkness of the eyebrows and removed anything else with the Rubber Tool.
You're welcome. I find it most of the time easier having a screenie to look at, the names of the tools are different in any language version, but the placing and icons will mostly be the same.
Than it's no wonder why she looked like a brit on summer vacation on Mallorca in my testrender LOL.
Thanks, I'll slap it all together and make a few renders. I'm sure Vic6 will look very different now.
The old textures was sort of game textures with all info included , everything is baked in them, the light info and the SSS
now if you want the reality back you need to split it the proper way .
The surface of the skin is not in color maps but created by normal and specular as the specular (reflection) give the model the true appearance .
You should not use a content that is total not made for use with PBR as the truth nothing in the store is made for at this moment ..
the rendering time will last forever if the materials are not set proper or at last converted to Iray shader .
I started rendering portrait for 1 hour the same face after adjustment took just 4 min
All my DAZ product's maps I created for 3Delight are usable in PBR with just the right material setup in iray as they are PBR based
but I am afraid all human maps need to be adjusted or used as alternative setup as they was made the wrong way to begin with to match the standard light we used ... now if DAZ programmers add a saturation slider or at last gamma slider you don't have to edit much ..even Poser have it for years and it is very handy stuff
I redid a previous render using my current skin settings and tweaking the other materials a bit. The first one has depth of field turned on, and the second one also has some atmospheric haze using the technique that's been posted here before (add a giant cube with the refractive properties of air and a little SSS, and put it right in front of the camera lens).
I hope you know I wasn't putting down any of the amazing work you have done, nor the contributions of your discoveries, because that was not my intent! I'll be the first in the line to snap up Buddy 3.
You must understand that using colors under PBR is not the same , when you use 255 magenta color what have 100% Luminosity it will glow as that is the level of light .
Cutting the color level by half the brightness (Luminosity ) will still produce the right color but without a glow .
there is not a surface in the world that extend 240 brightness other than light emitting object or the sun .
So don't blame the program for wrong calculation the program calculate your color representation was supposed to be light or emitting light object .
Bellow example of magenta color with different Luminosity level and how iray calculate it , the first 2 balls from left extended the allowed brightness of color , the first have luminosity 100 , the second 80 and the rest is bellow 70- 50
P.S I added exactly the level of Brightness of colors , no matter bloom filter or not, dont use any colors that are brighter than 65-70 % the best working with 50-60 range as when the light hit the surface it will bright it up to the right level we see in pictures .
For example the dress color in a picture is not brighter than 64, but dont mean that the base color for your dress you use should be the same color u see in the picture , it need to be half way darker so the light can do proper work in Iray adding the missing brightness and balance it to the level .
The right colors not only affect the brightness but also the surrounding in the scene and how they illuminate in global illumination with each other .
Human skin not only reflect light and have SSS , it also reflect from itself , like for example between the fingers , the reddish color is half SSS and half reflection color from the other side of the finger produced by global illumination .
They teach us this stuff in Art school , it was info how to paint stuff right , but I guess it come handy all the time in 3D as the same is happening when the light hit the surface .
Bloom can be a nice thing if used carefully .I used it in a sci fi picture earlier in this thread and on candles. With candles it's giving a nice glow around the flame. Again, use it modest otherwise everything around will start to glow. In the sci fi pic it was intended to give a glow around the orb. Nice side effect was that it also lit up some details on the helmet.
Just a general question Mec. Can you give us your ultimate render settings as far as Progressive settings, Optimization and Filtering and anything else you do to speed up rendertime. You say you are running anywhere from 4 to 40 minutes. I know I will not be able to reach that since I'm running on CPU only, but anything that can make it faster will surely help.
I keep trying this, even using high values (0.8-1) I haven't seen much difference so far (but that doesn't mean it couldn't work if we hit upon the right combination of other settings that interact with it)
Diffuse roughness actually alter the brightness of the textures so I guess it should works
I used it in my products to darker the base surfaces .
I keep trying this, even using high values (0.8-1) I haven't seen much difference so far (but that doesn't mean it couldn't work if we hit upon the right combination of other settings that interact with it)
Not for a moment .. I will add new materials soon to my old products to match Iray values .. so I don't have to alter my maps as they was already ready lol just the materials need to be adjust .
I will have to make 2 versions for DS as not everyone will use Iray, but I have already solution for that so not need 2 versions of my human skin maps
It is nice trick here and completely allowed .. the air is not always clear
I don't always follow how mec4d is computing these numbers. I fully understand what she is saying, but not how to incorporate it because I don't know where these readings are coming from.
Luminosity, Brightness.. where are we getting these terms from as units of measurement? I assume we are talking something a little more sophisticated than the color picker in Windows or Studio. And the German (?) language screenshots of Photoshop weren't really all that helpful to me either.
Could someone point me in the right direction here?
I reduced the diffuse brightness with the diffuse roughness to 5 (I changed the parameters by putting the maximum higher )
as you see the second sphere don't glow any more it reduced the brightness of 14% with level 5
I keep trying this, even using high values (0.8-1) I haven't seen much difference so far (but that doesn't mean it couldn't work if we hit upon the right combination of other settings that interact with it)
The color picker in Studio have not B or L it have Val , that is the brightness of the color , usual 128 value is the 50% of brightness of all colors , so when you choice 255 red color and change the VAL value to 128 you get red with half brightness
From DS color picker
Hue: 0 red: 128
Sat : 255 blue: 0
Val : 128 green: 0
now when I change the Val to 255 I will get pure red at max you can get with 100 % brightness
the same for all other colors
The max Val you should use is 240 anything above is out of range , the most bright surface on earth is a snow , nothing extend this value
the darkest value is 8
this are settings for non metal surfaces ...
as metal surfaces are based on reflection levels not diffuse , oxidation of a metal surface make it no more metal under PBR values
The pure gray color in PBR value is
Hue: 0 red: 187
Sat : 255 blue: 187
Val : 187 green: 187
If I change the Val to 255 I will get a pure white that only sun can produce in space .. as on earth it is not pure white due to scattering in the atmosphere
I don't always follow how mec4d is computing these numbers. I fully understand what she is saying, but not how to incorporate it because I don't know where these readings are coming from.
Luminosity, Brightness.. where are we getting these terms from as units of measurement? I assume we are talking something a little more sophisticated than the color picker in Windows or Studio. And the German (?) language screenshots of Photoshop weren't really all that helpful to me either.
Could someone point me in the right direction here?
Setting a colors in your renders can be really tricky as nothing is what you think it is .. eyes can play a big tricks on us , not only with golden white dresses .. but that is the truth
bellow I often show this illustration of the eyes illusion , that why with PBR rendering you need stick to the real world values as much as you can to get true photographic effect, it is not simple task and I don't know it all but as much closer you get so finer the renders
THANK YOU for explaining that to me.
I've always seen the 0-255 values as the 'artist'/user side of things and the 0-1 values as the scientific/technical/mathematical side...because even in 3DL/RSL shader writing, it's all decimal.
some people claim that to get the true pure colors like red, blue or green or white you should use the 187 Value
for example red and white color surface before rendering
DS color Picker for Red color on the surface
Hue: 0 red: 187
Sat : 255 blue: 0
Val : 187 green: 0
DS color Picker for White color on the surface
Hue: 0 red: 187
Sat : 0 blue: 187
Val : 187 green: 187
DS color Picker for Gray color on the surface
Hue: 0 red: 128
Sat : 0 blue: 128
Val : 128 green: 128
after you render with this values you should get the color at max it should without burning it out
Ok then LOL
Red color :
Red: 0.51 =187 value
Blue:0.0
Green:0.0
White color :
Red: 0.51 =187 value
Blue:0.51
Green:0.51
for pure red color on the surface
well now you go to PS and figure it out lol
to complicated for the artists that mostly use the RGB 0-255 values
I am graduate of colors .. so I work always with the 0-255 values not really wanna switch now to 0-1 values and confuse everyone even more as it already is especially that we use Photoshop and usually working with 0-255 values
The Float Color picker is easy if you want go straight for the brightens values of standard colors like red blue or green or white, but if you use different color mix like purple I would not know what are the values straight from my head
I've always seen the 0-255 values as the 'artist'/user side of things and the 0-1 values as the scientific/technical/mathematical side...because even in 3DL/RSL shader writing, it's all decimal.My mistake for not being clear. They are linear, like expected in PBR, where the 0-255 are gamma corrected values. So 0.5, 0.5, 0.5 does not equal 128, 128, 128, but 186, 186, 186,
Also for real world, physically plausible values you should stay between .1 and .9 (Note that this is for a combination of color and map. (So using 1, 1, 1 and a map is correct and valid.)
Any ideas on tricks that might pull skin color from light baked in?
I can generate a more appropriate pigment map with skin overlay and freckles/age stuff, but I'd like to get more mileage out of other skins.
I could flatten luminance, but the problem is that pigment is dark as are shadows...
I know that , using 1.1.1 and a map is very valid
but the colors on the diffuse map can't extend 0.88 0.88 0.88 what is the value of 240 for a white snow
so if someone want to have a pure snow white color for a dress, they should use 0.88 0.88 0.88 and not 0.50, 0.50, 0.50 =186
as the last one is a gray color and not white
bellow is a link to a very good PBR charts
you can download the pdf file and use the color charts save the pdf file then change the extension to “.zip”, decompress and you get the tga file with great charts for your surfaces
Save link As
https://seblagarde.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/dontnodgraphicchartforblinnmicrofacet.pdf
Load your textures in PS, create a layer from the background, desaturate the layer and invert the color
later under layers use the option from Normal to Soft Light
it will balance the skin so the shadows get in the same level as the luminescence
then desaturate a little bit the textures as usually they are over saturated and you have perfect Albedo maps
Next attempt at mirrors, and yes the HDRI approach works. I did discover that silver and platinum mirror surfaces turn gold if Glossy Roughness is brought down to 0.03 or less. I also discovered that mirrors reflect HDRI strangely. Note in the direct shot, Goldilocks is square in the middle of the brick step, but in the two reflections she is right next to the stone trim. Also you can see the direct and reflected steps don’t line up with one another.
Something seems out of plumb, but I got a reflection.
Somethings wrong with the PDF link Cath! Won't open!
To get the right reflections from the ground you need to use Sphere with ground as right now the model float in space and so the ball that why you have different reflections
Pretty darn neat.
There has to be a reason.
What colors are used in that preset? I'm not at my render PC right now
Ok here it is as jpeg
and also other specular COLOR charts that should be used with Iray
PBR Specular Color
Material sRGB Color
Water 38 38 38
Skin 51 51 51
Hair 65 65 65
Plastic / Glass (Low) 53 53 53
Plastic High 61 61 61
Glass (High) / Ruby 79 79 79
Diamond 115 115 115
Iron 196 199 199
Copper 250 209 194
Gold 255 219 145
Aluminum 245 245 247
Silver 250 247 242
If a non-metal material is not in the list, use a value between 45 and 65.
Non-Metals
Non-metal has monochrome/gray specular color. Never use colored specular for anything except certain metals.
The sRGB color range for most non-metal materials is usually between 40 and 60. It should never be higher than 80/80/80.
A good clean diffuse map is required.
Metals
The specular color for metal should always be above sRGB 180.
Metal can have colored specular highlights (for gold and copper for example).
Metal has a black or very dark diffuse color.
This is for the Specular/Glossiness base mixer in Iray
You need to rename it to have the zip extension and then extract it.