Fiddling with Iray skin settings...

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  • bwise1701bwise1701 Posts: 216
    fred9803 said:
    bwise1701 said:

     

     

    Could someone tell me what character / texture set this image uses?

    Thanks

     

    This is G3F (Cailin from memory) with V4 London (Metropolitan Collection) skin by danae (Renderosity). I wish she would make some native G3F skins because her V4 ones are fantastic.

    I've looked but still can't identify this character - doesn't look like the Cailin in the store and nothing on rendo...

    Anybody have an idea?

    Thanks

  • mmkdazmmkdaz Posts: 301

    I seem to remember a London character by Danae..Perhaps it was for v3?

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,158
    bwise1701 said:
    fred9803 said:
    bwise1701 said:

     

     

    Could someone tell me what character / texture set this image uses?

    Thanks

     

    This is G3F (Cailin from memory) with V4 London (Metropolitan Collection) skin by danae (Renderosity). I wish she would make some native G3F skins because her V4 ones are fantastic.

    I've looked but still can't identify this character - doesn't look like the Cailin in the store and nothing on rendo...

    Anybody have an idea?

    Thanks

     

    Skin texture: https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/the-metropolitan-collection---london-v4-2/97977

    Look at the birthmark above her left eyebrow, for example ...

    The morph I am not sure about.

  • SorelSorel Posts: 1,287
    Bumpity bump bump~ I have a question about skin gloss again. Is it best to control it with a spec map or a gloss/roughness map? Or perhaps real mapped skin details would also help. This seems to be the one thing I find myself tinkering with too much.
  • Arnold CArnold C Posts: 740
    Sorel said:
    Bumpity bump bump~ I have a question about skin gloss again. Is it best to control it with a spec map or a gloss/roughness map? Or perhaps real mapped skin details would also help. This seems to be the one thing I find myself tinkering with too much.

    Long answer:

    Depends on the PBR Mix you're using. On the PBR Metallicity/Roughness Mix, specular is determined by the Glossy Reflectivity parameter. Which is a result of a somewhat complex calculation based on the materials Index of Refraction and remapped linearly to a fixed incident specular range. It will be as complex to figure out the appropriate correct color for the SpecMap to look realistic. Aaand... I don't know if that parameter is truely able to use a texture map. Never tried out.

    On the PBR Specular/Glossiness Mix specular is defined by the Glossy Specular parameter. This one I know for sure is mapable. An optimal texture map would have a color of RGB 59 max. for the reflecting parts of the skin, and a color lower than that and towards RGB 0 for the non-reflective parts like pores and wrinkles.

    Glossines is nothing else than Glossy Roughness reversed. And will be in fact, internally, reversed into Roughness again. There's a special "Gloss to Rough" brick in the Shader Mixer. Both Glossines and Glossy Roughness will be squared if the Hidden Properties Roughness Squared and Glossiness Squared are set to On (which they are by default). If you're working with a measured value, you'd have to recalculate the appropriate color for the texture... or switch them to Off. As you can imagine, the latter one is the far more easier method. smiley

    For most of the body, a uniform Glossines/Roughness Map could be used. Regarding a figure's face, a Glossiness/Roughness Map taking into account the different sebum secretion (the oily thin film on one's skin) will make it look way more realistic. See picture below, the darker the color the more sebum's in place and the glossier the part will look.


    Short answer: both. wink

    A Specular Map determines the percentual amount of light which gets reflected, and a Glossiness/Roughness Map determines the amount of light diffusion caused by skin-irregularities like pores and wrinkles and such. How to create and use such maps properly see above.

    In any case, never ever touch Glossy Color, for the default is fine 'cause the color of the specular reflection of skin (and any other insulator) is white. Not to confuse with the appropriate color of a Specular Map, which always should be kinda black in case of an insulator.

    Hope that helps. smiley

    sebum secretion.jpg
    212 x 221 - 12K
  • SorelSorel Posts: 1,287

    Thanks arnold! Guess I need to open the good ol' photoshop

  • mmkdazmmkdaz Posts: 301

    @Sorel for me, modificaitons to Spec Map Weight, and Color allow general changes, and modifications to bump and top coat bump allow for fine tunes.

  • deathbycanondeathbycanon Posts: 1,196

    Anyone have a setting for fingernails? Grey fingernails are making me crazy. :) 

  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,313

    So what does this new chromatic option mean for us geeks? I see its basically undocumented so we have to figure out what the heck it does for ourselves.  Seems to suggest other methods of SSS where you have two colors, but its been so long I don't remember what the purpose of those was.

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 14,081

    Well from google is seems to mean that it will be some sort of color saturated subsurface scattering...

    aha, and if that is wrong someone is sure to come along and correct my guess.

  • SangriartSangriart Posts: 27
    edited August 2017

    http://www.iryoku.com/stare-into-the-future has a huge downloadable slideshow discussing dual lobe specular among other things.

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • SpyroRueSpyroRue Posts: 5,020
    Sangriart said:

    http://www.iryoku.com/stare-into-the-future has a huge downloadable slideshow discussing dual lobe specular among other things.

    @Sangriart That is a really good read, thank you :)

  • dracorndracorn Posts: 2,287

    I am a total Iray newbie, having spent all my time with 3Delight.  I have a few questions:

    QUESTION 1:

    I have some characters with fantasy skin colors, i.e. soft gray, green, blue, or creating golden tan, etc.  In 3Delight, all I needed to do was play with the Diffuse Color, Subsurface Color and Specularity to make this change on normal fair human skin.  Same thing with eye color.  There are some lovely eye sets for Victoria 4 which add subtle changes to Diffuse Color to create more options for a single map, such as this product:

    https://www.daz3d.com/sg-frosty-gaze

    How do I do this in Iray?  Can I change this via surfaces or do I need to make changes to the maps in Photoshop?

    QUESTION 2:

    In 3Delight, I would hide individual surfaces by setting the opacity to zero.  I use this technique often in kitbashing.  Is there a way to do this in Iray? 

    Thanks!  This is a great thread.

  • DustRiderDustRider Posts: 2,332
    dracorn said:

    I am a total Iray newbie, having spent all my time with 3Delight.  I have a few questions:

    QUESTION 1:

    I have some characters with fantasy skin colors, i.e. soft gray, green, blue, or creating golden tan, etc.  In 3Delight, all I needed to do was play with the Diffuse Color, Subsurface Color and Specularity to make this change on normal fair human skin.  Same thing with eye color.  There are some lovely eye sets for Victoria 4 which add subtle changes to Diffuse Color to create more options for a single map, such as this product:

    https://www.daz3d.com/sg-frosty-gaze

    There are several ways you can alter skin color in Iray. The easiest being altering the color in one or all of these: Base Color, Translucency Color, SSS Reflectance Tint, Glossy Color, or Glossy Specular. Or of course you can alter the diffuse map in photoshop or similar.

     

    dracorn said:

    QUESTION 2:

    In 3Delight, I would hide individual surfaces by setting the opacity to zero.  I use this technique often in kitbashing.  Is there a way to do this in Iray? 

    Thanks!  This is a great thread.

    In Iray it is called Opacity Cutout - set it to zero, and the material will be invisible.

    Hope this helps!

  • dracorndracorn Posts: 2,287

    Yes!  Thank you!

  • DustRiderDustRider Posts: 2,332

    Your welcome - but I gave a bit of bad info, in Iray it's Cutout Opacity, not Opacity Cutout (major brain fart) blush

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 10,573

    Anyone have a setting for fingernails? Grey fingernails are making me crazy. :) 

    You can alwyas try copying the arms/hands mat zone and paste it into the fingernails mat zone then just up the glossiness.

  • I'm trying translucency for the first time, I don't understand what type of light effect it. Do HDR light work or do you need something like a spotlight to get the effect ?

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 10,573

    I'm trying translucency for the first time, I don't understand what type of light effect it. Do HDR light work or do you need something like a spotlight to get the effect ?

    It should be any light that effects it. I mainly use HDRIs and rarely add extra lights and get decent effects with translucency. And, of course, the brighter the light, the more light will come through the thinner areas that have translucency settings applied. 

  • I'm trying translucency for the first time, I don't understand what type of light effect it. Do HDR light work or do you need something like a spotlight to get the effect ?

    It should be any light that effects it. I mainly use HDRIs and rarely add extra lights and get decent effects with translucency. And, of course, the brighter the light, the more light will come through the thinner areas that have translucency settings applied. 

    Thanks that save a lot of research !

    Cheers

  • dracorndracorn Posts: 2,287

    I'm trying translucency for the first time, I don't understand what type of light effect it. Do HDR light work or do you need something like a spotlight to get the effect ?

    It should be any light that effects it. I mainly use HDRIs and rarely add extra lights and get decent effects with translucency. And, of course, the brighter the light, the more light will come through the thinner areas that have translucency settings applied. 

    Thanks.  How do I copy the settings without the maps?

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001

    If you save a preset...Shader or Material, you have the option of including/not including the maps.  Just expand the parameter tree in the Save Dialog and uncheck any maps.

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 10,573
    edited September 2017
    mjc1016 said:

    If you save a preset...Shader or Material, you have the option of including/not including the maps.  Just expand the parameter tree in the Save Dialog and uncheck any maps.

    One could also hold down Control while clicking on the material preset or shader - a pop up window then shows up and you can tell it to "ignore" images. That should apply the settings without effecting the maps. @dracom

    Post edited by 3Diva on
  • mmkdazmmkdaz Posts: 301

    This render uses JCade's settings for Macro Eyes for G3F. This is a G2F model and the settings work well here too. Lighting is SecondCircle's Ringlight HDRI. 

    V3G2FStanding9-3-2017-Face.jpg
    1461 x 891 - 264K
  • magnumdaz said:

    This render uses JCade's settings for Macro Eyes for G3F. This is a G2F model and the settings work well here too. Lighting is SecondCircle's Ringlight HDRI. 

    W O W

  • tkdroberttkdrobert Posts: 3,062

    This test render I did with the "IRAY Converter for Genesis and Generation 4 bundle which I got on sale.  I'm trying to decide if I made a good purchase.  The one on the left is G1.  My only complaint is his pours look a little too prominent, close up.  I'm not sure what setting to adjust for that.  I'm using Gaussian setting in pixel filtering.  Now I'm much better at non realistic renders than IRAY, so any help would be appreciated.  

    G1M and M$ IRAY by tkdrobert

  • Not sure if this is the best place to ask, but: 

     

    1) What is the purpose of the top coat layer? On Toon Gernerations 2, it uses the same map as the diffuse color. I tried removing it to see what would happen, but can't really tell a difference...

    2) Are you supposed to plug a map into the dual specular lobe field? If so, would the usual gloss/specularity map work? I can't find any documentation on this stuff. 

    3) Could upping the transmitted measurement distance value to something much higher (like, say 8 instead of 2) have odd effects in some situations? ANything I should be aware of/understand?

  • Arnold CArnold C Posts: 740
    edited September 2017

    1) What is the purpose of the top coat layer?

    2) Are you supposed to plug a map into the dual specular lobe field? If so, would the usual gloss/specularity map work? I can't find any documentation on this stuff. 

    3) Could upping the transmitted measurement distance value to something much higher (like, say 8 instead of 2) have odd effects in some situations? ANything I should be aware of/understand?

    1) The Top coat layer's purpose is to simulate a transparent material of different optical abilities residing on top of the base material, like the clear coat on car paint or the oily film on skin.

    2) Judging from the version 8 generation of DAZ figures, the usual "Specular Map" is thought to be used on the "Dual Lobe Specular Reflectivity" parameter.

    3) Yes, it could. Transmitted Measurement Distance in combination with Transmitted Color simulates the absorption of light as it travels through a volume; the longer the light travels in the volume, the more it is affected by absorption. Transmitted Color controls the amount of light that is transmitted by the volume over the specified Transmitted Measurement Distance. For example, a Transmitted Color value of (0.0, 0.5, 0.0) and a Transmitted Measurement Distance of 2 (centimeter; default DAZ Studio world scene space scale) would result in 50% of green light crossing through a piece of material which is 2 centimeters thick, while 100% of red and blue light will be absorbed completely.

    Now, raising the Transmitted Measurement Distance would result in a less absorptive material, since it could travel a much longer distance before a part of it is getting absorbed.

     Another important thing is to avoid a Transmitted Color value extreme of 1.00 in any of the RGB color channels (which means, that 100% of light will cross through a piece of material of a specified thickness and will come out the other side, with absolutely no portion absorbed, even if the object would be a thousand miles thick). Such materials simply don't exist. At least not in this universe. smiley

    Hope that helps.

     

     

     

    Post edited by Arnold C on
  • SangriartSangriart Posts: 27
    edited September 2017

    It seems to me the results are better with two specular maps which should represent specular roughness in M/R shader, i.e. black for smooth shiny areas, and specular glossiness (white for smooth areas) in S/G shader. Spec1 map should represent broader, softer highlights while Spec2 should be sharp and high-contrast.

    P.S. I can be wrong but from what I've read it seems that Specular Reflectivity is about the same (0.30) for human skin in any area, thus needs no map. 

    Post edited by Sangriart on
  • Arnold C said:

    1) What is the purpose of the top coat layer?

    2) Are you supposed to plug a map into the dual specular lobe field? If so, would the usual gloss/specularity map work? I can't find any documentation on this stuff. 

    3) Could upping the transmitted measurement distance value to something much higher (like, say 8 instead of 2) have odd effects in some situations? ANything I should be aware of/understand?

    1) The Top coat layer's purpose is to simulate a transparent material of different optical abilities residing on top of the base material, like the clear coat on car paint or the oily film on skin.

    2) Judging from the version 8 generation of DAZ figures, the usual "Specular Map" is thought to be used on the "Dual Lobe Specular Reflectivity" parameter.

    3) Yes, it could. Transmitted Measurement Distance in combination with Transmitted Color simulates the absorption of light as it travels through a volume; the longer the light travels in the volume, the more it is affected by absorption. Transmitted Color controls the amount of light that is transmitted by the volume over the specified Transmitted Measurement Distance. For example, a Transmitted Color value of (0.0, 0.5, 0.0) and a Transmitted Measurement Distance of 2 (centimeter; default DAZ Studio world scene space scale) would result in 50% of green light crossing through a piece of material which is 2 centimeters thick, while 100% of red and blue light will be absorbed completely.

    Now, raising the Transmitted Measurement Distance would result in a less absorptive material, since it could travel a much longer distance before a part of it is getting absorbed.

     Another important thing is to avoid a Transmitted Color value extreme of 1.00 in any of the RGB color channels (which means, that 100% of light will cross through a piece of material of a specified thickness and will come out the other side, with absolutely no portion absorbed, even if the object would be a thousand miles thick). Such materials simply don't exist. At least not in this universe. smiley

    Hope that helps.

     

     

     

    Thank you Arnold, super helpful!

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