New DS Filament Render Engine

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  • Ghosty12 said:
    gniiial said:
    gniiial said:

    I would love to see someone develop a stylized shader or 2D style toon shader for Filament to get that anime-esque style of animation/look.  Most of renders are done using pWtoon shaders.  Iray doesn't work for me (I've mentioned this in several other posts).  Unity has a beautiful set of stylized shaders, but upon installing Unity, I realized it is a live game render engine and not a frame still-shot renderer (so I can't produce my web comics).  
     

    Upon reading earlier posts here, I can see that Rawb mentioned that it was really aimed at webcomic and game style animation renders.  
     

    Maybe this Filament isn't going to 'do it' right now for those attached to Iray, but for me and my old Dell T3500, it is a godsend and exactly, what I was hoping DAZ would develop in time.  I haven't had a chance to jump into it yet as my M-F job has me bogged down.  I will this weekend.  I'm seeing renders in this thread and they have me very excited to use it.  
     

    I came here prior to making some purchases because I want to see how others are doing with it.  From what I'm reading, it looks like this is what my aging PC needs very much.  

    I think "cell shaded" is the word I'm looking for.  

    Can you give a sample?! I don't really know what you try to go for. But i imagine PBR shaders already exist for your kind of style i think. 

    A style similar to a Miyazaki animation, maybe like that of Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild.  I had this style done with pWtoon in this video I created using DAZ:

    https://youtu.be/m-EoWqtgKcA

    I want to be able to produce that same cell-shaded effect using filament, but with the Filament lighting that I see for sale here.  (I'm not sure how to post vids here from YT using an iPad, so please let me know if this works)

    Have you tried that??!
    http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/artzone/pub/tutorials/dazstudio/studio-toonshaders

    Um, yes, many years ago.  Thanks.  But since the installation of Filament, no.  I have to wait until this weekend to give it a try.  I had asked about combining 3DL shaders and Iray in Filament, and one of the DAZ techs said that Filament is not based on shaders.  I have no idea what PBR shading is.  I've never dealt with it.  
     


     

    Ghosty12 said:

    dunno if https://www.daz3d.com/pwtoon would work in Filament as I don't own it

    I have pwtoon and tried it and tried it out and they do not seem to work at all, and Visual Style Shaders does some funky stuff to the texture if tried on Genesis 8..

    And that's what I was afraid of.  Hence, I asked if there would be a creation of Cell shaded shaders or stylized shaders for filament in the future.

    Unfortunately so, and well the only way I see someone will to specifically create a toon/cel shader for Filament.. But that would be a long ways off, as there is so much that needs to be done to Filament first.. Like being more robust and useful, than what would be seen I would imagine by many as just a gimmick and nothing more..

    I'm sure it will become more developed as time goes by.  Thank you for testing those two shaders though and letting me know the results.  I'm going to try and see if I can play with the cell shaders that are DAZ based that gniiial suggested.  I've never tweaked them or really dug into them to full capacity.  It's also been years since I've tried.  I think I was on DAZ version 4.5 the last time I played with them, then gave up and settled for visual style shaders and pWtoon instead.  Of course,I didn't fully understand the functionality of shaders, having just left Poser 4 (which to me was an utterly confusing and complicated program to figure out even with a vague instructional book that I had purchased in college).  
     

    DAZ is a pretty user friendly program to me, and I'm not much of a tech (pfft, not hardly).   Maybe I can figure out with trial and error, how to utilize filaments shaders to behave like cell shaders.  (Might be a pipe dream, but hey - dream big!  Amiright!?)

    Maybe maybe not being open-source it depends on whether people want to contribute to its development or not 

    https://github.com/google/filament

  • AlmuricAlmuric Posts: 15
    edited November 2020

    I'm not seeing the 'Physically Based Render' option in the DrawStyle dropdown like the tutorial showed. Any suggestions as to how to add it? Right now I've updated but can't seem to use the Filament engine for some reason

    Post edited by Almuric on
  • dawnbladedawnblade Posts: 1,723
    edited November 2020
    Almuric said:

    I'm not seeing the 'Physically Based Render' option in the DrawStyle dropdown like the tutorial showed. Any suggestions as to how to add it? Right now I've updated but can't seem to use the Filament engine for some reason

    It's not yet available for Mac, if that applies.

    Post edited by dawnblade on
  • dawnblade said:
    Almuric said:

    I'm not seeing the 'Physically Based Render' option in the DrawStyle dropdown like the tutorial showed. Any suggestions as to how to add it? Right now I've updated but can't seem to use the Filament engine for some reason

    It's not yet available for Macs, if that applies.

    Well drat. So I guess that means Filament isn't available for MAc yet either?

  • dawnbladedawnblade Posts: 1,723
    edited November 2020
    Almuric said:
    dawnblade said:
    Almuric said:

    I'm not seeing the 'Physically Based Render' option in the DrawStyle dropdown like the tutorial showed. Any suggestions as to how to add it? Right now I've updated but can't seem to use the Filament engine for some reason

    It's not yet available for Macs, if that applies.

    Well drat. So I guess that means Filament isn't available for MAc yet either?

    Edit: See the "Real-Time Rendering" section on this post. Here it is in brief:

    Real-Time Rendering

    • Added a real-time physically based rendering option to the DrawStyle Options menu in viewports
      • Filament (PBR) - Implements the Filament renderer as a DrawStyle
      • Requires: Windows (currently), 64-bit, OpenGL > 4.1
    Post edited by dawnblade on
  • dawnblade said:
    Almuric said:
    dawnblade said:
    Almuric said:

    I'm not seeing the 'Physically Based Render' option in the DrawStyle dropdown like the tutorial showed. Any suggestions as to how to add it? Right now I've updated but can't seem to use the Filament engine for some reason

    It's not yet available for Macs, if that applies.

    Well drat. So I guess that means Filament isn't available for MAc yet either?

    Edit: See the "Real-Time Rendering" section on this post. Here it is in brief:

    Real-Time Rendering

    • Added a real-time physically based rendering option to the DrawStyle Options menu in viewports
      • Filament (PBR) - Implements the Filament renderer as a DrawStyle
      • Requires: Windows (currently), 64-bit, OpenGL > 4.1

    Excellent. Thank you!

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,743
    edited November 2020

    Another test, using Iray shaders for the character and 3DL for the rest.


    filament_02.png
    795 x 901 - 833K
    Post edited by Taoz on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 23,250
    Taoz said:

    Another test, using Iray shaders for the character and 3DL for the rest.


    That looks very nice.

  • ZilvergrafixZilvergrafix Posts: 1,385
    edited November 2020

    Some settings for G8 Skin shader on filament using iRay parameters, and settings for default HDR scene, no distant lights used cool use it if you are lost on filament or want to improve my settings, welcome!

    the skin texture is from CO Ichigo and Ichigo Hair for Genesis 8 Female(s)

    Filament Draw Options, for this you will need to uncheck "limits" on any parameter, well if you want this PS2 Resident Evil shader of course cheeky

    the value is 10357.34 on Environment Intensity Scale

    Post edited by Zilvergrafix on
  • N-RArtsN-RArts Posts: 1,446

    Does every item in a scene need a Filament Draw Option added to it?

     

  • MendomanMendoman Posts: 401

    First of all, this is all my personal opinion, no facts or anything, and I hope nobody gets offended. When I saw the new render engine, I was quite excited, and decided that first I'll check google to see what it can do. To my surprise all I could find was couple of random basic material screenshots, so that really got me thinking if Filament is even used anywhere except here in Daz studio. Also I have no idea if there's any community to learn from, because I couldn't find any filament forums in first couple google pages either. Maybe it was just me being too hasty, but it does not look that great when new render engine has very little support outside of Daz forums.

     

    Next I tried with a little testing. I tried to keep open mind, but after playing a little, my biggest problem is I'm not really sure what Filament is supposed to be used for. Obviously it's not a replacement for Iray in quality, but I can't understand how it would even help previewing Iray rendering either, since the lighting does not match Iray's. In Daz studio texture shaded mode still works better for posing, and if I want super fast render times for animation, there's Eevee and of course both big game engines, which all have far superior quality in my opinion. Actually, I'm not even sure if I even can render images or animations with Filament, since I couldn't find a setting to change render engine to filament for final rendering, but that is probably just me. 

     

    That being said, I'm sure there's some users who probably still benefit from this new option, but I would have liked something better that could be used by bigger part of Daz customerbase, rather than wasting resouces for this. As far as I can see it, I think Daz snapped this one too early. It's still several years behind Eevee and current generation game engines in quality. UE5 is already pretty close to release, and it will increase the bar even higher. I don't know if Google or Daz is developing Filament, but if there isn't any major backers for this project, I just fail to see some non-existing community to improve it much further when it competes against giants like Epic. I hope I'm wrong, and Filament will evolve and get better, but in it's current state I have say it is kind of a disappoinment.

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,145
    edited November 2020

    ignore please...double post.

     

    Post edited by AllenArt on
  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,145

    Nah, you only need to add the Filament Draw, Environment and Tonemapping just once :)

     

  • N_R Arts said:

    Does every item in a scene need a Filament Draw Option added to it?

     

    There can be only one - hence the name for these objects, Singletons.

  • it tells you you already have one if you try and add another

  • SevrinSevrin Posts: 6,301
    N_R Arts said:

    Does every item in a scene need a Filament Draw Option added to it?

     

    There can be only one - hence the name for these objects, Singletons.

    For me, there will only be one real Singleton, and that's Ken, who played with the Expos, back when we still had a team here.

  • I would love to see someone develop a stylized shader or 2D style toon shader for Filament to get that anime-esque style of animation/look.  Most of renders are done using pWtoon shaders.  Iray doesn't work for me (I've mentioned this in several other posts).  Unity has a beautiful set of stylized shaders, but upon installing Unity, I realized it is a live game render engine and not a frame still-shot renderer (so I can't produce my web comics). 

    Filament is not set up to support custom shaders in DS, at present. It gets PBR materials translated from the PBR Iray Uber Shader and uses a pre-built shader - there is a list of supporte properties here https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/6200861/#Comment_6200861

    Thanks, Richard!  I've bookmarked the link.  Despite what Filament can and cannot do (yet) - I'm still very interested in trying it and seeing what I can discover and utilize into my webcomics.  I've seen some of the samples here from Filament using the lights and skins that are New purchase items available in the store.  The renders are beautiful and dramatic.  I have faith that somewhere, somehow, someone will find a way to create a cell-shaded shader akin to pWtoon (or better) that will work in Filament.  There's so much that new technology has to offer.  Even if Filament is in its infant stage at this time, I'm looking at what Iray has ballooned into over the eventuality of time.  
     

    I'm pretty patient.  When things get developed, things get developed for the Filament engine.  I have tons of Iray shaders that I've purchased from DAZ even if I can't use any of them at this time. One day, I hope to update my PC and get a more powerful video card to try Iray.  And I've been here with DAZ since before Iray was even a thing.   And Iray has come a very long way since it's introduction.  I think Filament will as well.  
     

    Thank you greatly, to those who have developed it! 

  • This is another quick animation experiment with the new DS Filament Render Engine in DAZ Studio. This time I played with the lighting and materials. It rendered in 30 minutes for 300 frames in 1920 X 1080. I added a little pixel motion blur in After Effects and some stock music.

  • Sevrin said:
    N_R Arts said:

    Does every item in a scene need a Filament Draw Option added to it?

     

    There can be only one - hence the name for these objects, Singletons.

    For me, there will only be one real Singleton, and that's Ken, who played with the Expos, back when we still had a team here.

    we have the much married entrepener John Singleton in Australia, I don't even want add one of him

  • metasidemetaside Posts: 176

    I really like this new engine for the main viewport, having Iray in the Aux viewport (at least for smaller scene). Very unexpected but cool addition for me, makes working much nicer, even though I wouldn't use it for any renders because of the emissives and shadows issues.

  • N-RArtsN-RArts Posts: 1,446
    AllenArt said:

    Nah, you only need to add the Filament Draw, Environment and Tonemapping just once :)

     

     

    There can be only one - hence the name for these objects, Singletons.

     

    it tells you you already have one if you try and add another

    Thank you, all.

    I've just done a quick render, and I'm quite pleased with the result (although I forgot to save the file - oops). 

  • What I'd like to ask is how to build a material or shader to enable emissive in filament.

     

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,145
    battfield said:

    What I'd like to ask is how to build a material or shader to enable emissive in filament.

     

    Filament cannot currently do emissions. As I understand, they are working on it.

    Laurie

  • AllenArt said:
    battfield said:

    What I'd like to ask is how to build a material or shader to enable emissive in filament.

     

    Filament cannot currently do emissions. As I understand, they are working on it.

    Laurie

    well Filament can, DAZ studio implimentation cannot yet

    I read some of the documentation for it before we got it and it has it

  • Mendoman said:

    First of all, this is all my personal opinion, no facts or anything, and I hope nobody gets offended. When I saw the new render engine, I was quite excited, and decided that first I'll check google to see what it can do. To my surprise all I could find was couple of random basic material screenshots, so that really got me thinking if Filament is even used anywhere except here in Daz studio. Also I have no idea if there's any community to learn from, because I couldn't find any filament forums in first couple google pages either. Maybe it was just me being too hasty, but it does not look that great when new render engine has very little support outside of Daz forums.

     

    Next I tried with a little testing. I tried to keep open mind, but after playing a little, my biggest problem is I'm not really sure what Filament is supposed to be used for. Obviously it's not a replacement for Iray in quality, but I can't understand how it would even help previewing Iray rendering either, since the lighting does not match Iray's. In Daz studio texture shaded mode still works better for posing, and if I want super fast render times for animation, there's Eevee and of course both big game engines, which all have far superior quality in my opinion. Actually, I'm not even sure if I even can render images or animations with Filament, since I couldn't find a setting to change render engine to filament for final rendering, but that is probably just me. 

     

    That being said, I'm sure there's some users who probably still benefit from this new option, but I would have liked something better that could be used by bigger part of Daz customerbase, rather than wasting resouces for this. As far as I can see it, I think Daz snapped this one too early. It's still several years behind Eevee and current generation game engines in quality. UE5 is already pretty close to release, and it will increase the bar even higher. I don't know if Google or Daz is developing Filament, but if there isn't any major backers for this project, I just fail to see some non-existing community to improve it much further when it competes against giants like Epic. I hope I'm wrong, and Filament will evolve and get better, but in it's current state I have say it is kind of a disappoinment.

    It's an open-source program https://github.com/google/filament

  • In the examples of daz's filament work, you can see videos of electric lights and light props being reproduced, but how are they made?

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,287

    .

    battfield said:

    In the examples of daz's filament work, you can see videos of electric lights and light props being reproduced, but how are they made?

    Probably point lights and spotlights.

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,287

    This is another quick animation experiment with the new DS Filament Render Engine in DAZ Studio. This time I played with the lighting and materials. It rendered in 30 minutes for 300 frames in 1920 X 1080. I added a little pixel motion blur in After Effects and some stock music.

    Cool! yes

    I'm loving all the renders and animations! Nice work you guys!

  • QuasarQuasar Posts: 578
    edited November 2020

    Just curious. Is DAZ adding features to Filament and contributing to the open source project? 

    Post edited by Quasar on
  • NylonGirlNylonGirl Posts: 1,550

    So I decided to get a few of those products sold for Filament. And one of them was SF Beautiful Skin Filament. I was under the impression it was meant to make the skin textures look better in the preview window when the filament engine was used for the preview. I started out with the texture shaded preview like this:

    DAZ Studio Texture Shaded Preview Window

    Then I changed the preview mode to Filament and it looked like this:

    DAZ Studio Filament Preview Window

    Then after selecting the character and applying one of the presets it looked like this:
    DAZ Studio Filament Preview Window

    And after choosing to "Undo" the texture preset, it made the preview window look again like it did in the second picture, but if I do an IRAY render after applying and undoing the material preset, it renders a character with the skin texture as a semi-transparent green color. It looks kind of nice, but this doesn't seem like it should be the result. It seems like it should return to a normal IRAY render. What's going on?

    DAZ Studio Green Translucent Black Girl

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