Daz to Unreal guide for "newcomers"(The famous "before your buy" or Limitations)

EllessarrEllessarr Posts: 1,258
edited September 2020 in Unreal Discussion

ok guys since it's now official which daz is giving a little more "support to unreal and we have a official tool to expor daz stuffs to unreal and maybe in the future if this proof to be profitable for daz we can have a really amazing source/library to work but for now let's focus on the beginner, since probably many peoples are "newcomers and gonna make some experiences, then i feel which is important to help those peoples to know how to "proper start" they works,

 

ok this not gonna be a tutorial about "how to use the daz bridge or install and bla bla bla, but it will be more centered about "what really work or can work inside unreal", because while the tool will allow us to use all daz stuffs inside unreal, truth need be told, "not everything will work on Unreal or not will work in in the same way it work's on daz, aways having in mind daz and unreal are 2 different tools which initially had 2 different paths to work, where one is more specifically for render and the other started just a game enginer and now is evolving to be a "jack of all trades" tool, to be used not only for game, but film, render, and others stuffs, but even with that in mind they still different tools were "somethings which work on "one tool" not gonna necessary work in the other, or will work in another way, then is important have this in mind when start to buy daz stuffs to use in unreal or trying to use what you already have.

 

well let's begin with some basic info, about what work and what don't work and what "work but not exactly in the same way as it work on daz, well before that we must learn some basic stuffs from daz products, like how can we classify some daz stuffs;

Basically in daz we have 5(6 when counting old vic4 generation and older) different type of stuffs on daz

1 - rigged meshes: are the "basic meshes" which does have or not a skeleton and it can be combined to a daz mesh and in most of the cases imported to unreal without any issue, inside that category we have most of the daz base characters(from even vic4) to most of the outfits(excluding old outfits from vic4 generation or lower because they were "rigged" in a way which is almost the same as the props which don't proper work inside daz), most of the hairs and some acessories and anatomic elements

this is they "icon" inside daz

 

 2 - props: basically the "non rigged and some attached stuffs, while those stuffs can be "normally exported without any issues to the character, they not gonna "follow the character" since they are not really attached to the character in the proper way, they will be just levitating around the place they are while you try to animate or pose the character in order to proper attach it to the character you must create a socket and attach that prop to the bone socket you created, even if you have place the prop inside daz in the place you wanted like a "weapon be proper attached in a hand in daz, it now gonna work in unreal the weapon not gonna follow the character and will remain levitating in the place you attached it, you need to export the prop alone to unreal then attach it inside unreal using sockets, once you learn how to do it, it will be pretty fast and simple.

 

here a image:

some cases of props like hats or hoods you can fix it following this:

http://davidvodhanel.com/daz-to-unreal-fixing-accessories-that-dont-animate-with-the-character/

this not gonna work on all the cases, specially in the case of attachments, but will work in many.

 

3 - "attachments", those are stuffs which some PA vendors place's in some outfits or body parts, which normally are not supposed to "strech" in the same way of the body when you are applying a morph, like a buttom which the vendor don't want the buttom become large when making a character superfat" or something like that, then those objects to keep they "original form" are "attached to the outfit or even in some cases characters, but they follow the same rule as the "props" since many of then are props too", and when exported to unreal they will have the same issue as the props and will be just 'floating around the body when it is moving, they not follow the body.

the only way to "fix" it would be you follow the same principle of maybe socket(never tested) or exporting the mesh to a 3d editor like maya or blender and changing the mesh to proper rig or parent/combine the attachment to the "body"(outfit) its was supposed to be part.

here a picture of it:

they need to be combined to the outfit mesh in a external way to make then work, otherwise i would recommend export the "outfit(or other stuffs which do have it) without it, just click on it and remove) you will be able to export the outfit but it will be missing those stuffs in some "outfits cases it will be not a big deal but in others it can make the outfit loose like 60 to 70% of it original look, a good exemple of it can be this outfit:

https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-victorian-butler-for-genesis-8-males   - almost of the details, like buttoms, clock even the ribbon are attachments when you start to remove all the stuffs the outfit start to look really ugly then be ready for things like that

4 - geoshell elements: the famous "non polygon stuffs which are supposed to be a more light way to add stuffs to the mesh, ok while it can be exported to unreal, it not gonna work as it work in daz, when exported to unreal it does become a full "mesh" with geometry and polygons and like the props and attachments it will be not "rigged to the body", which means a float object, which in this case don't work on unreal, we have 2 possible soluctions for this issue(which i do know):

   A - open a 3d editor like maya or blender and rigg it to the character like a normal outfit or other stuff

   B - in some cases like a "geoshell body armor, if it follow the same "uv" as the character body mesh like in some cases you can just export the "texture" of the geoshell and apply it direct to the body "material" as the "base material instead of the skin texture or do a lerp and combine it with the body material, it can work on some cases like painted body hairs or mustaches or some painted armor suits" don't know if it can work on all the cases you need to check on the geoshell element you are working on and see on the texture if it can be applied direct to the body mesh or no.

here a exemple of geoshell outfit

 

5 - "dforce stuffs: let's make clear "dforce outfits in most of the cases, are a different case from "true dforce stuffs like hairs or furs, while almost any dforce outfit will be exported to unreal without any issue, the "dforce stuff not gonna work" you must use unreal cloth simulation tool to make it work as you want, the case of hairs and furs which were made full using the dforce tool, not gonna be exported to unreal or not gonna work in anyway, because it is a daz only tool and unreal don't have any support for dforce tool, then becarefull when you trying to export your "furry character" or your fur outfit" and check if the "fur stuff" is a full dforce created or a dforce applied, which is the big different, in outfits most of the cases they are just applied a dforce weight material to create the "cloth simulation" they were not dforce created, in case of hairs and furs in most of the cases they were created using the "dforce tool" then no "real geometry being used" other than the daz editor, ofcourse you can find some 'rare cases' of dforce hairs or fur were the "effect is being applied" rater than being created then in that cases the hair or fur can exported and will work on unreal, but again you need to apply yourself the "fur and hair effects" using unreal tool or you can use the cloth simulation or you can use the new "alembic way to work on hair and fur, here a video about it:

new groom hair tool for unreal

 

old unreal way to simulate hair using the cloth simulation

 

choose the one which fit better your taste

 

here the image for a dforce hair example:

 

6 - optional for old outfits and stuffs from victory 4 and lower, while they can be "exported" to unreal almost without any issue, they do have the same issue as "props", for some reason the way they were rigged in old characters don't work in unreal it will read then as if they were "props" and will be floating around the character or move but not "proper deform if needed, well will be a mess then in this case i really don't know how to fix it because what i did was just using some compatible tools or applied then direct to "new daz characters" using the autofit then it changed how they are handled from the "old way" to a "more new" which work with unreal, well what i means which they can work with any generation above victoria 4 (genesis, genesis 2, 3 and 8) while not proper work on victoria 4 or under, here a image to know when dealing with then:

 

ok those are the most "basic info" about the comon type of stuffs you will be dealing with daz, now we are gonna for some more "extra info" about some specific stuffs, specially regards "poly count".

 

While in daz having a 1 million or more polygons(vertices) character or multiple characters with 1 million or more are not a big deal "aslong you have the "nasa pc" lolcheeky, because the render will not be in real time and you can sleep, eat, watch tv while your pc is "dying" or suffering in have to handle this "monster", the same can't happen in unreal since it is a "real time render" you have to have some "limitations" abou what you are loading and while you can inside unreal have let's say a big open world with billions and billions of polygons being loaded, not all of then are being rendered and in order to have a "fast render" for all objects you need to have "low poly stuffs being rendered to have a fast render in real time, i means which while unreal can let's say render fast a scene with let's say 10 objects with 100k vertices each, with a total of 1 million, the same is not true when rendering a single object with 1 million polygons, the singe object with 1 million will take more time and effort in the engine than the 10 objects with 100k each.

 

why i'm saying that, well it's because some (if not most) of the PA's specially the ones working on hair, like to use "heavy dense meshes, where a single outfit or piece of outfit or even a hair can have alone near 1 millon polygons or more, then pay attention when using those stuffs, in some cases unreal can't just import those "too heavy stuffs", it too much, then things like "fibermesh or strand based" hairs can be very problematic if you don't proper pay attention and make sure you are not loading "monsters", the same goes for some pa artists which love to make some "ultra realistic mega detailed outfits where even the "small buttom" or fur is a very complex mesh with hundred of polygons, then for the users which want max realism and ultra max details using Unreal to render will not be a good option as long it don't make it have to deal with millions of polygon in single character or stuff.

 

The good news is which Unreal is "working on tha front" and they have plans for the next big version of the unreal , Unreal engine 5, to be able to handle heavy dense poly objects as we already saw in they annoucement and trailer, they are working a new version to be able to handle singe stuffs with millions of polygons, but for now it still on the future (next year) and the current version are still not able to handle it, then if really want high realism and details a option would be "bake material" which i means get a "reduced version of the mesh" and using the high version create a baked normal which will have most of those details, it can work to make your "not high poly final model, look "almost like the same as the high one, have in mind which it don't work on all the cases, but can work in some of then.

 

then be carefull when loading a scene from daz to unreal to see if all the stuffs are not "too heavy" and if the unreal can support what you are trying to load.

 

i hope it can help anyone trying to use or deciding if they gonna use daz stuffs in unreal, to be clear not everything talked on this thread is 100% set in stone without any changes or possibilities but for now those are the "lmitations" when using daz inside unreal.

 

have a nice day and week and have some fun playing with daz stuffs on unreal, i can't promise have a answer to everthing but any question inside my knowledge i can try to answer.

 

ps: srry for bad english in case peoples are having any issue in reading my post, i swear i'm trying to learn and improve.

Post edited by Ellessarr on
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Comments

  • marblemarble Posts: 5,865
    Ellessarr said:
     

    ps: srry for bad english in case peoples are having any issue in reading my post, i swear i'm trying to learn and improve.

    I'm not ready to try this yet but I did skim through your guide and was able to follow your English mostly. One thing in particular is a bit confusing ... what are "geographic elements"? Geometry Shells (Geo-shells)? Or Geometry Grafts (Geo-grafts) - which is actual mesh (polygons) that replaces original parts of the mesh? Or Anatomical Elements (which are Geo-grafts)? I hope I don't insult you by correcting your English but "geographic" is normally used to describe areas of the world such as countries or oceans.

  • EllessarrEllessarr Posts: 1,258
    edited August 2020
    marble said:
    Ellessarr said:
     

    ps: srry for bad english in case peoples are having any issue in reading my post, i swear i'm trying to learn and improve.

    I'm not ready to try this yet but I did skim through your guide and was able to follow your English mostly. One thing in particular is a bit confusing ... what are "geographic elements"? Geometry Shells (Geo-shells)? Or Geometry Grafts (Geo-grafts) - which is actual mesh (polygons) that replaces original parts of the mesh? Or Anatomical Elements (which are Geo-grafts)? I hope I don't insult you by correcting your English but "geographic" is normally used to describe areas of the world such as countries or oceans.

    no problem  i'm also a bit confuse on that part exactly because we have 2 types of geo is the geo-shell and the geographic, i'm also abit confuse on that, but to be fair the issue on the geo shell which don't have a geometry, the other one which have like anatomic elements works normals in unreal, it's the "other one which don't work,  the issue is on the geoshell stuff, basically if it not a proper geometry and or don't have a proper rig it not gonna work in unreal in the same way it work on daz.

    really thanks for point that.

     

    any other question i will try to answer if i can.

    Post edited by Ellessarr on
  • MadaMada Posts: 1,151

    So what would the ideal product for Unreal look like - low poly with no rigid follow node buttons? I often rig an outfit with buttons in place and only delete it at the end to replace with rigid follow nodes, it might be possible to save an unreal friendly version that includes the buttons.

    1. lower poly

    2. no rigid follow nodes

    3. no dforce

    4. Materials should be colour, roughness, metallic, normals?

  • There are two things (that I know of anyway).  There are geo-grafts which hide part of the geometry and have a replacement for it.  You can use those like this: http://davidvodhanel.com/daz-to-unreal-hiding-figure-geometry/

    The other is geoshells which kind of wrap over the body.  Thos don't work yet.

  • EllessarrEllessarr Posts: 1,258
    edited August 2020
    Mada said:

    So what would the ideal product for Unreal look like - low poly with no rigid follow node buttons? I often rig an outfit with buttons in place and only delete it at the end to replace with rigid follow nodes, it might be possible to save an unreal friendly version that includes the buttons.

    1. lower poly

    2. no rigid follow nodes

    3. no dforce

    4. Materials should be colour, roughness, metallic, normals?

     yeah basically almost like what you told

     

    1 - lower poly- but again that "lower poly" can be subjective to what type of work you are wanting, if you want just render and the image will be a small place with not that many stuffs, then each mesh on the scene don't need to be "super low", then let's say some characters "around 500k vertices( like 3 to 4) would not be a big deal if the scene props are also not high poly, if it's for animations/movie then you can start to 'cut" it to maybe 300k or 400k based on the level of details you want, if for game then indeed you must cut it down to be around 100k between let's say 20k to at best 130 or 150k for a main character and maybe 200 or 300 or maybe even 500k for a big boss which only gonna appear one time in a not heavy poly scene.

    to put in pratical and in medium i would say stay under 100k (between 30k and 70k would be the best) and all will be fine if you want your work to be full used for everyone in unreal, otherwise if you just planing to make "stuffs only for render or filming then you would go more wild and be around 200 or 300k,  the problem is which normally a character is being loaded with multiple meshes" and each mesh with they own poly count, then for exemple if you make a 100k outfit, then other person make a 100k hair then another make a 100k fibermesh beard and i use all those 3 in my character it will end in a 320k character(100k from each mesh plus 20k from the base character) this is why you must have in mind when making things for game to not go "wild" because you product not gonna be the "only one used".

     

    2 - no rigid follow nodes - yeah for sure, they just don't work in unreal, as i told since they are not rigged they will work pretty much as any "other proper" and will be just floating around, maybe they can be attached to the character using the "socket method but i'm not sure if it will work right, the only good work is without any doubts add it direct to the outfit to rig it.

     

    3  - no dforce: if its a product made full with dforce tool like hairs and furs" then really not gonna work since they are not real geometry, they not even gonna be exported to unreal, ive tried many times and all the times the unreal just can't accept it, it's a "daz only feature", now if it as "applied dforce" like in cloths and some "rare cases of hairs", were the creator follow the same step as outfits and just apply the dforce effect in the hair then it can work, the only downside is which the "dforce" is lost, you can still simulate the hair or outfit by using the 2 methods i've talked, you also have a sort of "third method" which is using physical simulations but it only work better in some type of hairs like ponytails, you will be using the hair bones to simulate phisics then in some cases it will work good in others not, then the best way would be still or the cloth simulation or the groom simulation.

     

    4 - materials: yeah unreal is a pbr and since a game engine heavy dependance in multiple maps, the "basic maps rules" for everything in unreal would be 1 - Base Color, 2- rougness, 3 - Ambient Occlusion, 4 - specular, 5 normal map, because those are the "base for PBR" in unreal, 

     

    Now when you want to enter in more "specific stuffs, like hairs, metalical stuffs, walls or ground textures, then you also get stuffs like "opacity texture, displacement, height, and metalical (you only need to apply metalical maps if you want the mesh to have metalical effect otherwise it come "disable in unreal" then you don't need to care about it, but things like specially roughness need to be added because it is the opposite for roughness in unreal it come "full enabled as default making things shining!!! then you need to adjust it, the pluging come with a "default configuration but if you provid the rougness then things will be fine.

    for exemple "metalical armos" would obvious need a metalical map, while leather armors or cloths don't need, but they would need a roughness map to control how "shining they will  be.

     

    for some more "specific shaders configurations, you would need some others type of maps, for exemple if you want the enable a "color well", or allow the user to configure the "collor or others effects of a specific place of the mesh material or all the material you would need the alpha texture map which is the "opposite of the opacity, in alpha you paint in "black" the places of the mesh you want to be "editable", then in unreal you can add "another texture which will only affect this area which you put in black with the "alpha", it can be used to also allow use of collor well and change the "color" of the outfit all together.

     

    any more question and i will try to answer and hope you can understand it.

     

    but again about the poly count we don't full know for sure in the future but everything is point which unreal is trying to fill that gap of poly count in the incoming unreal 5, where you can go wild but for now we know which it is only for "props" we don't know if the same will be applied for characters and you can have multiple million polygons characters, another problem if working with high poly also is the "space", imagine how big will be the game if all the outfits and hairs and everything is like 500 mega or 1 giga, we gonna end with a game being like 500 giga space storage, then it's not "just for the sake of low poly" but also others fact which normally we must consider, not just the "weight inside the game but also on the storage space.

     

    one small detail i forget and remember now the "PBR" for unreal stands for "roughness, metalical and ambient occlusion, normally you can mix all the 3 in a single map by turning then in TGA and making then 16+ bits, again to be fair the "metalical map is not that important if you don't have any "metalical stuff" on the mesh, it could be still 0 and only have the others but if you are going for the true base for unreal it would be base color, normal map, specular, roughness metalical and ambient occlusion.

    Post edited by Ellessarr on
  • MadaMada Posts: 1,151

    Thanks :) I'm sure I'll have more questions along the way lol

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 31,154

    don't try creating a cloth from a highpoly Dforce dress devil

    I crashed unreal 5 times today trying to asign  the clothing asset after I painted it.

    I had also joined it all with the geometry editor, in retrospect should have kept some surfaces but honestly the Rochelle dress is way too highpoly cheeky

  • EllessarrEllessarr Posts: 1,258

    don't try creating a cloth from a highpoly Dforce dress devil

    I crashed unreal 5 times today trying to asign  the clothing asset after I painted it.

    I had also joined it all with the geometry editor, in retrospect should have kept some surfaces but honestly the Rochelle dress is way too highpoly cheeky

    lol this is why i recommend be carefull when using "too high poly stuffs" in unreal it was not yeat created to hand too dense meshes then neither to simulate "cloths lol cheeky, just to be curious what is the poly count?, it's really looks like being too high.

  • EllessarrEllessarr Posts: 1,258

    here some more info:

    going back to the "basic stuffs" let me make a little more clear some stuffs, most of the "problems" i've pointed are in general not a "unreal problem" specifically, but a "DAZ" issue, not sayin which daz did something wrong, but more like some of the stuffs you "use in DAZ", they only work "ON DAZ" they are made to work on DAZ studio, which  means trying to export then outside DAZ, be unreal, maya, blender or any other tool and they will not gonna work or gonna have some "errors" because they are DAZ techs which means for then to work "outside daz" it wold means the same "tech" be implemented in all the others external programs aswell, otherwise they just not gonna wok, this is why things like geoshell, DForce, riging followers, don't work "outside daz", don't matter if it is "unreal or any other program" the problem will be the same, for those stuffs to work outside daz it would need to "add" the tech to the others programs.

     

    ok now moving to another "topic" which will be "materials", i've alredy give a "basic" about unreal pbr materials in one explanation but this time i will try to give the more complete info.

     

    For the beginning unreal work most of the times with PBR(which stands for phyisical based render if i'm not wrong), they basic configuration for "materials for beginning is diffuse or base color(base texture),  normal map (for details), Specular, Ambient occlusion, rougness and metalical, specular, and ambient occlusion if i'm not wrong are for "light effects, rougness also for light but for "shiny and add effects like wet and bla bla bla ad metalical is "obvious if something is "metalical.

    this is the "basic" unreal material configuration, if you proper setu up those maps unreal already gonna start "very well" in the render, however ofcourse unreal can be much more complex than that and you can have much more "textures maps to work based on what you are working, for exemple for a hair you would also need a opacity map and for some cases a alpha map, for some special effects you would need a displacemet map, and it goes.

     

    unreal works with "nodes blueprint system not only for programation but everything else, even materials have "blueprints" and nodes, you basically create a material then open it in a new window then drag all your "textures to that window and start to link then to they right "nodes", like a normal map texture to normal map node and bla bla bla, however unreal can be much more complex as you want, because it also can work with a sort of "layer system" in te same way daz have a layer in they textures, unreal can do that, you can create multiple layers of detail in a single material and allow the user to free configure those layers as he want.

     

    for exemple the "classi character skin material" the base for it would be the base color, the normal, specular, AO, Rougness and optional metalical( you don't need to apply metalical textures to things which don't have a metalical effect uneral comes with the metalical value 0 as default if i'm not wrong, you only need if you really need to add "metal" to it, however it can be much more complex, for peoples wanting "max realism and details you can go furter and add layers for"veins, wrinklys, wounds, scars, tears, tattoos, body hair, basically what you see in games were you can customize your character, all those things are made by blending different type of textures and details in the same material and making then customizable parameters, then if you know how to proper create all the textures for those details you can create a ultra mega realistic character in the same level or maybe even better than DAZ, but ofcourse it need some good knowledge about what type of "textures you need" and how to proper "lerp"(combine) then and render it, the final result can be really awesome, also while unreal have some "defaults shaders" you can customize/create your own shaders and make the aterial use those shaders it's up to you.

  • EllessarrEllessarr Posts: 1,258
    edited August 2020

    ohh and i was so hyped over the news which i've ended forgething..

     

    @Mada srry i've ended not noticing your properly, lol, it's really awesome see a daz PA artisti interested in make some stuffs more oriented for stuffs like unreal, i really love your designs and had bought some stuffs from you and love the fact which in many cases you are one the fews artits on daz which normally don't go "too wild" when making outfits, you can make things "low" too, i really hope to see some awesome stuffs from you and hope some more daz PA artists also start to also like you get inspired to try in go this "away" really hope to see good stuffs and hope you enjoy make the stuffs and keep the awesome job, if you need any info help as long is inside my  knowledge i'm gonna be really happy in help you.

    Post edited by Ellessarr on
  • Mada said:

    So what would the ideal product for Unreal look like - low poly with no rigid follow node buttons? I often rig an outfit with buttons in place and only delete it at the end to replace with rigid follow nodes, it might be possible to save an unreal friendly version that includes the buttons.

    1. lower poly

    2. no rigid follow nodes

    3. no dforce

    4. Materials should be colour, roughness, metallic, normals?

    I don't know about ideal, but I have a couple tips.  

    Textures

    • Keep the textures a power of two and square.  So 2048x2048 4096x4096 etc.  If they aren't a power of two Unreal Engine won't create mips and performance will be hurt.
    • Don't end with a solid color at the boundary of your UVs.  I see a lot of character textures that turn white right at the edge of the UV.  When these get samples down for mips it sometimes causes a line at the seem.  Same thing with Normal Maps.  Don't have a sudden "cliff" at the edge of the UV.
    • Try to minimize the texture count.  For instance, if the left and right boot are the same, reuse the same texture.

    Surfaces

    • Try to minimize the number of surfaces in your model.  These each become a different material slot in Unreal and the more of those you have the slower the character draws.  So if you have a boot with a metal buckle, try to use a metallic map and combine them into one surface.
  • EllessarrEllessarr Posts: 1,258
    edited August 2020

    Well for "creators" i also would advice then to maybe install unreal and take a look at it and try to learn the "basic" like setup a basic character don't need learn a full game but like how to replace the base mannekin for a daz character and add the basic animtions it following any basic tutorial in youtube would take like 10 minutes at best, then for the ones which are more into "texture" to take a look at unreal material and learn how it's works all the nodes how to add the stuffs, then with that you can have a much better knowledge of how to work on your own textures and materials.

     

    remember unreal is "free" to "play" you only have to pay if you release anything "comercial" and after you have reached a $1 million buckets total gains and only if each year quarter you receive more than 10.000 buckets after the 1 million threshold, if you are using just to "test' and learn then is full free to use.

    Post edited by Ellessarr on
  • EllessarrEllessarr Posts: 1,258
    edited September 2020

    Another Good Advice when using DAZ characters in unreal or exporting to any other 3d software not just daz.

     

    About the geographic elements, don't do as me did at the beginning and missunderstood "geoshell with geografty" they are 2 different things, as i told previous geoshell are "fake meshes" made to "fill some gap or add some "details reducing the render time by reducing the poly count, while they do get exported to unreal they don't work as they work in daz, they will not be rigged and will be exported as if they are "props" without any attachment to the character, for more info read the first post, now going back to the geografty, they are actually "real meshes" which means which "unlike the geoshell they actually "proper work on unreal" and are "rigged to the character properly", the only possible issue which you can get about geografty elements is which when exporting the character with  the geografty make sure you are not in any other mode than the regular scene editor mode, for exemple you can be on the "joint editor mode" or weight map editor or even specially on the geometry editor mode.

     

    When you add a geographic element to the character it set the place it is replacing in the character body as "hidden", then when it is hidden if you mark to "delete hidden stuffs" it will "delete this mesh part and send only the geographic and the "visible mesh as it should be, however if you are in any speciall editor mode, like for exemple the geometry editor mode, it set to that "invisible part to "visible again" then if you try to "export the character in that mode it will export the geographic and the full mesh with the element which was supposed to be not exported, making the character look "wrong", then whenever you gonna send your character to unreal or probably any other 3d software make sure you are in the "regular" mode of daz you do that by just clicking in any of the icons displayed on that image in the main editor:

    this will make the editor go back to "normal mode" and will hidden again the place which the "geographic is trying to replace making things be proper exported.

     

    here a classic exemple with both "geoshell and geographic"

     

    here you have both her "centaur body part and geoshell, both of then can be exported however only the centaur body will work the "geoshell" will be just a empty prop which not gonna work as it work on daz, it will act like a "prop" and not be rigged or follow the centaur body or character mesh when you try to animate it.

     

    the function of the geoshell in the centaur case is to fix the gap/transiction between the centaur and human body, since the way tey setup it don't make a "proper transition and make it need a "extra" texture to fix it.

    this is "a centaur with geoshell having the back "fixed

     

    now this is if you remove the "geoshell" or hidden it.

     

    normally you would export the character without the geoshell, but it would be the "ending result", this bad transition, the only way to fix it would be you export it to blender or maya or other editor then "delete" most of the face of the geoshell( it's almost the full horse body". and only leaving the "area of the gap" then rigging this to the or centaur body or human body or maybe both, to make it follow as a sort of "extra outfit" or part", i don't know if the "texture only method can work in this case, you must check the goeshell textures to see if possible to only use the textures and fix it.

    Post edited by Ellessarr on
  • MadaMada Posts: 1,151
    Mada said:

     

    Surfaces

    • Try to minimize the number of surfaces in your model.  These each become a different material slot in Unreal and the more of those you have the slower the character draws.  So if you have a boot with a metal buckle, try to use a metallic map and combine them into one surface.

    Ok that's interesting and could be a bit of a stumbling block - for DS the more surfaces the better so users can drop shaders onto them. It now makes a lot more sense on why some of the converted outfits came over everything a single surface - that won't fly for DS though :)

  • MadaMada Posts: 1,151
    Ellessarr said:

    @Mada srry i've ended not noticing your properly, lol, it's really awesome see a daz PA artisti interested in make some stuffs more oriented for stuffs like unreal, i really love your designs and had bought some stuffs from you and love the fact which in many cases you are one the fews artits on daz which normally don't go "too wild" when making outfits, you can make things "low" too, i really hope to see some awesome stuffs from you and hope some more daz PA artists also start to also like you get inspired to try in go this "away" really hope to see good stuffs and hope you enjoy make the stuffs and keep the awesome job, if you need any info help as long is inside my  knowledge i'm gonna be really happy in help you.

    lol - I'm very interested in VR and that requires lower poly models since geo often gets rendered twice so the more efficient the better.
    I do plan on getting way more into Unreal as soon as I get a new computer, just waiting for the new video cards to drop. I find that both Unity and Unreal insists on saving some things on the C drive even when its installed on another drive and my C drive is uncomfortably full right now - had to uninstll Unreal a while back.

     

  • Mada said:
    Mada said:

     

    Surfaces

    • Try to minimize the number of surfaces in your model.  These each become a different material slot in Unreal and the more of those you have the slower the character draws.  So if you have a boot with a metal buckle, try to use a metallic map and combine them into one surface.

    Ok that's interesting and could be a bit of a stumbling block - for DS the more surfaces the better so users can drop shaders onto them. It now makes a lot more sense on why some of the converted outfits came over everything a single surface - that won't fly for DS though :)

    I haven't made assets for Daz, so I didn't know that.  I'm planning an option to automatically merge some of these on transfer, so hopefully it won't be a problem.

  • MadaMada Posts: 1,151

    oh that would be great :) I was hoping a script or something would be able to handle that.

  • EllessarrEllessarr Posts: 1,258
    edited August 2020
    Mada said:
    Mada said:

     

    Surfaces

    • Try to minimize the number of surfaces in your model.  These each become a different material slot in Unreal and the more of those you have the slower the character draws.  So if you have a boot with a metal buckle, try to use a metallic map and combine them into one surface.

    Ok that's interesting and could be a bit of a stumbling block - for DS the more surfaces the better so users can drop shaders onto them. It now makes a lot more sense on why some of the converted outfits came over everything a single surface - that won't fly for DS though :)

    yeah for game "developing" we follow the rules of the "less is more" and in some cases if you want to add "different colors to different places of the same object you can use the "lerp" and alpha" and blend both textures. for exemple you have a shoes where you want the user be able to choose diferent colors for the shoes and for the sole and tiers, then you create a basic texture map for the whole show with all the stuffs then you create alpha maps for the each part, like one for tiers, another for sole and one for the all the body, then you create for each one different collors texture which can be applied to "those zones" of the shoes, the alpha will take care for each zone, also if i'm not wrong you can go for "ID maps which something common when creating textures for unreal, normaly you create a ID map then use it to paint each zone of the model without need to have multiples surfaces, you only use multiple surface if you really want to make sure each piece really need to have your own material like in some games specially the ones based on car racing like forza series and others, if you feel which you really don't need to each of the pieces of the mesh don't need to have they own surface material then you can just put all together in a single texture then use a id map to create the zones properly and add the final texture with a extra for the alphas for the final user be able to apply its own textures, or try to follow the Id or whatever you think is better way to do.

     

    https://forums.unrealengine.com/development-discussion/rendering/82749-how-do-i-use-multi-color-id-map-with-my-layered-materials

     

    this can help a little learn a little more about "id map".

     

    as david told, the less surfaces(materials) you have the fast it can be loaded in the scene.

    Post edited by Ellessarr on
  • MadaMada Posts: 1,151

    Yes I already create my ID maps in Modo to use in Substance painter - however for DS products you want to have lots of surfaces so an option to merge during transfer would be the best solution. :)

  • EllessarrEllessarr Posts: 1,258
    Mada said:

    Yes I already create my ID maps in Modo to use in Substance painter - however for DS products you want to have lots of surfaces so an option to merge during transfer would be the best solution. :)

    well to be fair i found a pluging in the unreal market which maybe can do that:

    https://unrealengine.com/marketplace/en-US/product/meshbake

  • MadaMada Posts: 1,151

    Awesome! :)

  • EllessarrEllessarr Posts: 1,258
    edited September 2020

    ok since i do feel it is a important info for this thread i will add a copy of this thread here:

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/433892/geografts-elements-help#latest

     

    how you can "current deal with it:

     

    1 - duplicate material:  in case you get a "empty material on the "extra mesh, just look at the "original mesh" material and copy it to the "empty material" it will make the duplicated mesh get the "second material" and in some cases it will work fine, the possible "drawback or issue on this case would be the "poke throught of the 2 meshes with each other, it can have a chance during pose or animations to happens and in some cases having the 2 meshes with materails could make that "zone a little more dark" than the average mesh, because it become too strong compared with the "average body mesh, for exemple a genitalia, in too pale skins you can notice th genitalia skin being more "dark" than the average skin using this method in some cases.

     

    2 - "hidden the mesh" : after load the character, create a "invisible material, in order to do that, create a "new material in unreal, to do that open the folder were the materials of the character is being imported then right click mouse in the folder and choose material, it will create a new "empty/blank" material, then open it, then inside it you will seee the "main shader large node, click on it, then set it to be "two sides on the check box, then in the same window look for the "blender mode change it from opaque to translucent or masked, it will enable the opacity or opacity maks node in the main nood in the graph, now go to the graph and from keyboard hit and hold buttom "3", then left click with mouse it will generate a "new full black node with 0,0,0, then just click in its "node hole" and link it to base color and the "opacity option" enabled you choose, it will turn this material "invisible" then save it and close, if you not already and want you can rename the material for a name you want instead of just "newmaterial(default name) if you not already give a name when you created. now just apply this "invisible material to the mesh you want to "hidden", it will make this mesh "disappear", the drawback or bade side of it is which the "mesh still there" and still count in the poly count, the option 1 have the same issue, if you start to add too heavy hairs and outfits and others stuffs it can be a little troublemsome, then having in mind this when using method 1 and 2.

     

    3 - deleting the "extra mesh outside daz: in the other thread i've talked about it, it is for now the "most close to correct action to do", but it will make you "have to reimport the character", after import it for the first time, ok when using the daz bridge tool it create a "temporary fold" where the characters will be stored before be moved to unreal, then inside that folder you will find the mesh and all textures the bridge is trying to export to unreal, now inside this folder you will look for the "mesh, the fbx format which have the full mesh you exported to unreal then you must use or blender or maya or any other 3d tool which have support for fbx and inside that tool you will "delete the "extra mesh" you don't want to get carried away to unreal, for the centaur exemple you will gonna have 2 horses meshs, you have to change the mode to select by faces" then select all the faces in the horse body, if you do it right it will selecet only the horse part of the mesh(not humand body or even the horse tail) then if all the horse mesh is proper selected hit delete/del or right click mouse and choose delete, then if your 3d editor have the "polycount display on you will see the total square fall from the initial number to a new one, a way to see if the mesh was really deleted select the "remain mesh and add it to a new layer then make that layer invisible if after that you still see a horse body then means which you did something wrong and the mesh was not deleted, if after you made it invisible the area become "empty and you have only the human torso and the "horse tail" then it means which you proper deleted the "mesh" and now you have only 1 mesh, then save it to the fbx, go to unreal then select the mesh in unreal then right click on it and choose the "re import option, it will reimport the mesh from that folder and replace the the current mesh with the "double mesh with the cleaned one, reducing the poly count.

     

    if daz have a way to "fix it by deleting the "extra mesh" inside daz then do that it make things more easy and simple, if i'm not wrong unreal also have a tool for meshes too but i don't know how to work with it and not sure if it work 100% because, the better way is or delete the extra mesh in daz then export to unreal if you can't delete inside daz then export to unreal then using another tool outside daz delete the extra mesh and reimport the mesh to unreal, only in last choice you must try to delete it inside unreal using it's tools, i means that because those tools are still on beta and experimental then it possible to get some issues.

     

    Another note, could be good before you "edit the fbx file and maybe make a mistake and dont want to "open again daz to export again the model", you make a copy of the fbx just incase, if anything goes wrong replace the "altered fbx by the copy and reimport it back.

     

    here on this thread from this page you can find some "usefull info", in case you want to make a "game based character" or even to optimize your project be game or not.

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/371856/a-using-daz-content-in-ue4-thread/p2

     

    this is to help with the issue of poke throught which is very troublesome.

    Post edited by Ellessarr on
  • I am new to daz, I had already downloaded it but it was incompatible with the programs I use the most which is Blender and Unreal, my focus is stylized games for mobile and PC.
    But now that I have the bridges, I intend to transfer my original characters into the daz.
    But I didn't understand how to create a mesh base. Is Daz Geneses 8 for example an algorithm that generates the base mesh or is it a standard mesh created in 3d software?
    How do you create Products? I want to create one with Mannequin Unreal ...
    Do you have an API to create scripts and plugins?
    I think there should be more video tutorials on how to design and import different skeletons.

  • EllessarrEllessarr Posts: 1,258
    edited September 2020

    I am new to daz, I had already downloaded it but it was incompatible with the programs I use the most which is Blender and Unreal, my focus is stylized games for mobile and PC.
    But now that I have the bridges, I intend to transfer my original characters into the daz.
    But I didn't understand how to create a mesh base. Is Daz Geneses 8 for example an algorithm that generates the base mesh or is it a standard mesh created in 3d software?
    How do you create Products? I want to create one with Mannequin Unreal ...
    Do you have an API to create scripts and plugins?
    I think there should be more video tutorials on how to design and import different skeletons.

    i'm a little confused about your questions

     

    it is about "exporting a character which you created in blender to daz????, then to do that i don't know because i never did that, now if you talking about exporting a character which you created in daz to unreal then you use the bridge

    all the characters in daz for what i know are "regular mesh", the only "algorithm i know are the "dforce hair and fur and maybe strand based hairs not too sure about that, but the characters and cloths in general are "regular generated meshs, the only issue here would be the "geo shell stuffs which i'v talked in this thread basically anything

    agian if you are talking about create products for daz then i'm really not that good, maybe someone more experienced can help with that but asfar i remember to create characters for daz and it's not for 'free" you need talk with daz and get your hands on the daz creator app, talking with daz, i really don't know those things works.

     

    and a tip if you are "looking" to use daz for "mobile" i would advise to forget, daz characters and stuffs are not "optmized" for mobile, they are in general too high poly for mobile, you would need to use only the character and make your own outftis because none outfit from daz will work for mobile, neither the hairs, again most of the stuffs on daz are too high for mobile, maybe some "cartoon characters" are fine but "realistic none.

    Post edited by Ellessarr on
  • Ellessarr said:

    I am new to daz, I had already downloaded it but it was incompatible with the programs I use the most which is Blender and Unreal, my focus is stylized games for mobile and PC.
    But now that I have the bridges, I intend to transfer my original characters into the daz.
    But I didn't understand how to create a mesh base. Is Daz Geneses 8 for example an algorithm that generates the base mesh or is it a standard mesh created in 3d software?
    How do you create Products? I want to create one with Mannequin Unreal ...
    Do you have an API to create scripts and plugins?
    I think there should be more video tutorials on how to design and import different skeletons.

    i'm a little confused about your questions

     

    it is about "exporting a character which you created in blender to daz????, then to do that i don't know because i never did that, now if you talking about exporting a character which you created in daz to unreal then you use the bridge

    all the characters in daz for what i know are "regular mesh", the only "algorithm i know are the "dforce hair and fur and maybe strand based hairs not too sure about that, but the characters and cloths in general are "regular generated meshs, the only issue here would be the "geo shell stuffs which i'v talked in this thread basically anything

    agian if you are talking about create products for daz then i'm really not that good, maybe someone more experienced can help with that but asfar i remember to create characters for daz and it's not for 'free" you need talk with daz and get your hands on the daz creator app, talking with daz, i really don't know those things works.

     

    and a tip if you are "looking" to use daz for "mobile" i would advise to forget, daz characters and stuffs are not "optmized" for mobile, they are in general too high poly for mobile, you would need to use only the character and make your own outftis because none outfit from daz will work for mobile, neither the hairs, again most of the stuffs on daz are too high for mobile, maybe some "cartoon characters" are fine but "realistic none.

    The base mesh Daz has 16556 vertices, it even runs on a calculator. Characters that I use in Moblie have an average of 36000 in LOD0, 16000 LOD1, 6000 LOD2. Unreal was made to work with millions of vertices, in PC games or LOD0 I use 3 million vertices.
    For me the mesh base of Daz is very clean. That's why I want to get a blender with 5 million vertices to put in the daz and use the Morfs tools, modifiers, I don't want to sell in the store, I want to use only on my PC in my projects.

  • EllessarrEllessarr Posts: 1,258
    Ellessarr said:

    I am new to daz, I had already downloaded it but it was incompatible with the programs I use the most which is Blender and Unreal, my focus is stylized games for mobile and PC.
    But now that I have the bridges, I intend to transfer my original characters into the daz.
    But I didn't understand how to create a mesh base. Is Daz Geneses 8 for example an algorithm that generates the base mesh or is it a standard mesh created in 3d software?
    How do you create Products? I want to create one with Mannequin Unreal ...
    Do you have an API to create scripts and plugins?
    I think there should be more video tutorials on how to design and import different skeletons.

    i'm a little confused about your questions

     

    it is about "exporting a character which you created in blender to daz????, then to do that i don't know because i never did that, now if you talking about exporting a character which you created in daz to unreal then you use the bridge

    all the characters in daz for what i know are "regular mesh", the only "algorithm i know are the "dforce hair and fur and maybe strand based hairs not too sure about that, but the characters and cloths in general are "regular generated meshs, the only issue here would be the "geo shell stuffs which i'v talked in this thread basically anything

    agian if you are talking about create products for daz then i'm really not that good, maybe someone more experienced can help with that but asfar i remember to create characters for daz and it's not for 'free" you need talk with daz and get your hands on the daz creator app, talking with daz, i really don't know those things works.

     

    and a tip if you are "looking" to use daz for "mobile" i would advise to forget, daz characters and stuffs are not "optmized" for mobile, they are in general too high poly for mobile, you would need to use only the character and make your own outftis because none outfit from daz will work for mobile, neither the hairs, again most of the stuffs on daz are too high for mobile, maybe some "cartoon characters" are fine but "realistic none.

    The base mesh Daz has 16556 vertices, it even runs on a calculator. Characters that I use in Moblie have an average of 36000 in LOD0, 16000 LOD1, 6000 LOD2. Unreal was made to work with millions of vertices, in PC games or LOD0 I use 3 million vertices.
    For me the mesh base of Daz is very clean. That's why I want to get a blender with 5 million vertices to put in the daz and use the Morfs tools, modifiers, I don't want to sell in the store, I want to use only on my PC in my projects.

    3 millions in a single character???? omg, i don't recall any even triple AAA game having a single character with 3 millions vertices.

     

    that is why i say which it can only be good for mobile if you use only the base character and create yourself  the hairs, outifts and all stuffs, unreal can support billions of "polygons and huge open world but this don't means which you gonna have " that "billions or millions" being redenrized at the same time being able to hold millions or billions or even trillions don't means which it will handle all of the vertices at the sametime, the engine only render what is in your screen or inside the cam, not the whole world at the same time.

  • Ellessarr said:
    Ellessarr said:

    I am new to daz, I had already downloaded it but it was incompatible with the programs I use the most which is Blender and Unreal, my focus is stylized games for mobile and PC.
    But now that I have the bridges, I intend to transfer my original characters into the daz.
    But I didn't understand how to create a mesh base. Is Daz Geneses 8 for example an algorithm that generates the base mesh or is it a standard mesh created in 3d software?
    How do you create Products? I want to create one with Mannequin Unreal ...
    Do you have an API to create scripts and plugins?
    I think there should be more video tutorials on how to design and import different skeletons.

    i'm a little confused about your questions

     

    it is about "exporting a character which you created in blender to daz????, then to do that i don't know because i never did that, now if you talking about exporting a character which you created in daz to unreal then you use the bridge

    all the characters in daz for what i know are "regular mesh", the only "algorithm i know are the "dforce hair and fur and maybe strand based hairs not too sure about that, but the characters and cloths in general are "regular generated meshs, the only issue here would be the "geo shell stuffs which i'v talked in this thread basically anything

    agian if you are talking about create products for daz then i'm really not that good, maybe someone more experienced can help with that but asfar i remember to create characters for daz and it's not for 'free" you need talk with daz and get your hands on the daz creator app, talking with daz, i really don't know those things works.

     

    and a tip if you are "looking" to use daz for "mobile" i would advise to forget, daz characters and stuffs are not "optmized" for mobile, they are in general too high poly for mobile, you would need to use only the character and make your own outftis because none outfit from daz will work for mobile, neither the hairs, again most of the stuffs on daz are too high for mobile, maybe some "cartoon characters" are fine but "realistic none.

    The base mesh Daz has 16556 vertices, it even runs on a calculator. Characters that I use in Moblie have an average of 36000 in LOD0, 16000 LOD1, 6000 LOD2. Unreal was made to work with millions of vertices, in PC games or LOD0 I use 3 million vertices.
    For me the mesh base of Daz is very clean. That's why I want to get a blender with 5 million vertices to put in the daz and use the Morfs tools, modifiers, I don't want to sell in the store, I want to use only on my PC in my projects.

    3 millions in a single character???? omg, i don't recall any even triple AAA game having a single character with 3 millions vertices.

     

    that is why i say which it can only be good for mobile if you use only the base character and create yourself  the hairs, outifts and all stuffs, unreal can support billions of "polygons and huge open world but this don't means which you gonna have " that "billions or millions" being redenrized at the same time being able to hold millions or billions or even trillions don't means which it will handle all of the vertices at the sametime, the engine only render what is in your screen or inside the cam, not the whole world at the same time.

    First I make a character thinking about the cinematic, then I reduce and test it.
    For example, this LOL cinematic should have at least about 30 million vertices per scene. Artists have done it with millions and developers have reduced it to work on the PC.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF5Ddo9JdpY

  • EllessarrEllessarr Posts: 1,258
    Ellessarr said:
    Ellessarr said:

    I am new to daz, I had already downloaded it but it was incompatible with the programs I use the most which is Blender and Unreal, my focus is stylized games for mobile and PC.
    But now that I have the bridges, I intend to transfer my original characters into the daz.
    But I didn't understand how to create a mesh base. Is Daz Geneses 8 for example an algorithm that generates the base mesh or is it a standard mesh created in 3d software?
    How do you create Products? I want to create one with Mannequin Unreal ...
    Do you have an API to create scripts and plugins?
    I think there should be more video tutorials on how to design and import different skeletons.

    i'm a little confused about your questions

     

    it is about "exporting a character which you created in blender to daz????, then to do that i don't know because i never did that, now if you talking about exporting a character which you created in daz to unreal then you use the bridge

    all the characters in daz for what i know are "regular mesh", the only "algorithm i know are the "dforce hair and fur and maybe strand based hairs not too sure about that, but the characters and cloths in general are "regular generated meshs, the only issue here would be the "geo shell stuffs which i'v talked in this thread basically anything

    agian if you are talking about create products for daz then i'm really not that good, maybe someone more experienced can help with that but asfar i remember to create characters for daz and it's not for 'free" you need talk with daz and get your hands on the daz creator app, talking with daz, i really don't know those things works.

     

    and a tip if you are "looking" to use daz for "mobile" i would advise to forget, daz characters and stuffs are not "optmized" for mobile, they are in general too high poly for mobile, you would need to use only the character and make your own outftis because none outfit from daz will work for mobile, neither the hairs, again most of the stuffs on daz are too high for mobile, maybe some "cartoon characters" are fine but "realistic none.

    The base mesh Daz has 16556 vertices, it even runs on a calculator. Characters that I use in Moblie have an average of 36000 in LOD0, 16000 LOD1, 6000 LOD2. Unreal was made to work with millions of vertices, in PC games or LOD0 I use 3 million vertices.
    For me the mesh base of Daz is very clean. That's why I want to get a blender with 5 million vertices to put in the daz and use the Morfs tools, modifiers, I don't want to sell in the store, I want to use only on my PC in my projects.

    3 millions in a single character???? omg, i don't recall any even triple AAA game having a single character with 3 millions vertices.

     

    that is why i say which it can only be good for mobile if you use only the base character and create yourself  the hairs, outifts and all stuffs, unreal can support billions of "polygons and huge open world but this don't means which you gonna have " that "billions or millions" being redenrized at the same time being able to hold millions or billions or even trillions don't means which it will handle all of the vertices at the sametime, the engine only render what is in your screen or inside the cam, not the whole world at the same time.

    First I make a character thinking about the cinematic, then I reduce and test it.
    For example, this LOL cinematic should have at least about 30 million vertices per scene. Artists have done it with millions and developers have reduced it to work on the PC.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF5Ddo9JdpY

    that is the "thing per the scene" not character, and again as i told you are only rendering in realtime what is on the cam anything else will not be rendered, this is why sometimes in games you have things "appearing in the scene outof nowhere, because the engine could not render the stuff in time then it get a delay in render and only appear later, because the stuffs already in the scene are too much, another thing is which in the past and even today many of the "cinematics are "pre- rendered" which means no realtime render this is why you can have "millions and billions of polygons in a scene in the cinematic, in order to do that for "realtime you have to reduce the poly count, ofcourse the unreal engine 5 is coming to "try to remove it by allowing you to be able to throw objects with "high poly count" without need to "reduce it or make lods", but for that you would need a "next generation consoles and pcs, with strong ssds and many memory, which for now many developers will avoid to go that high at last for pc in indie comunity to make sure as much people will be buying they games, because not everyone gonna be able to pay for a "top pc" to run those crazy games".

     

  • Ellessarr said:
    Ellessarr said:
    Ellessarr said:

    I am new to daz, I had already downloaded it but it was incompatible with the programs I use the most which is Blender and Unreal, my focus is stylized games for mobile and PC.
    But now that I have the bridges, I intend to transfer my original characters into the daz.
    But I didn't understand how to create a mesh base. Is Daz Geneses 8 for example an algorithm that generates the base mesh or is it a standard mesh created in 3d software?
    How do you create Products? I want to create one with Mannequin Unreal ...
    Do you have an API to create scripts and plugins?
    I think there should be more video tutorials on how to design and import different skeletons.

    i'm a little confused about your questions

     

    it is about "exporting a character which you created in blender to daz????, then to do that i don't know because i never did that, now if you talking about exporting a character which you created in daz to unreal then you use the bridge

    all the characters in daz for what i know are "regular mesh", the only "algorithm i know are the "dforce hair and fur and maybe strand based hairs not too sure about that, but the characters and cloths in general are "regular generated meshs, the only issue here would be the "geo shell stuffs which i'v talked in this thread basically anything

    agian if you are talking about create products for daz then i'm really not that good, maybe someone more experienced can help with that but asfar i remember to create characters for daz and it's not for 'free" you need talk with daz and get your hands on the daz creator app, talking with daz, i really don't know those things works.

     

    and a tip if you are "looking" to use daz for "mobile" i would advise to forget, daz characters and stuffs are not "optmized" for mobile, they are in general too high poly for mobile, you would need to use only the character and make your own outftis because none outfit from daz will work for mobile, neither the hairs, again most of the stuffs on daz are too high for mobile, maybe some "cartoon characters" are fine but "realistic none.

    The base mesh Daz has 16556 vertices, it even runs on a calculator. Characters that I use in Moblie have an average of 36000 in LOD0, 16000 LOD1, 6000 LOD2. Unreal was made to work with millions of vertices, in PC games or LOD0 I use 3 million vertices.
    For me the mesh base of Daz is very clean. That's why I want to get a blender with 5 million vertices to put in the daz and use the Morfs tools, modifiers, I don't want to sell in the store, I want to use only on my PC in my projects.

    3 millions in a single character???? omg, i don't recall any even triple AAA game having a single character with 3 millions vertices.

     

    that is why i say which it can only be good for mobile if you use only the base character and create yourself  the hairs, outifts and all stuffs, unreal can support billions of "polygons and huge open world but this don't means which you gonna have " that "billions or millions" being redenrized at the same time being able to hold millions or billions or even trillions don't means which it will handle all of the vertices at the sametime, the engine only render what is in your screen or inside the cam, not the whole world at the same time.

    First I make a character thinking about the cinematic, then I reduce and test it.
    For example, this LOL cinematic should have at least about 30 million vertices per scene. Artists have done it with millions and developers have reduced it to work on the PC.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF5Ddo9JdpY

    that is the "thing per the scene" not character, and again as i told you are only rendering in realtime what is on the cam anything else will not be rendered, this is why sometimes in games you have things "appearing in the scene outof nowhere, because the engine could not render the stuff in time then it get a delay in render and only appear later, because the stuffs already in the scene are too much, another thing is which in the past and even today many of the "cinematics are "pre- rendered" which means no realtime render this is why you can have "millions and billions of polygons in a scene in the cinematic, in order to do that for "realtime you have to reduce the poly count, ofcourse the unreal engine 5 is coming to "try to remove it by allowing you to be able to throw objects with "high poly count" without need to "reduce it or make lods", but for that you would need a "next generation consoles and pcs, with strong ssds and many memory, which for now many developers will avoid to go that high at last for pc in indie comunity to make sure as much people will be buying they games, because not everyone gonna be able to pay for a "top pc" to run those crazy games".

     

     

    Ellessarr said:
    Ellessarr said:
    Ellessarr said:

    I am new to daz, I had already downloaded it but it was incompatible with the programs I use the most which is Blender and Unreal, my focus is stylized games for mobile and PC.
    But now that I have the bridges, I intend to transfer my original characters into the daz.
    But I didn't understand how to create a mesh base. Is Daz Geneses 8 for example an algorithm that generates the base mesh or is it a standard mesh created in 3d software?
    How do you create Products? I want to create one with Mannequin Unreal ...
    Do you have an API to create scripts and plugins?
    I think there should be more video tutorials on how to design and import different skeletons.

    i'm a little confused about your questions

     

    it is about "exporting a character which you created in blender to daz????, then to do that i don't know because i never did that, now if you talking about exporting a character which you created in daz to unreal then you use the bridge

    all the characters in daz for what i know are "regular mesh", the only "algorithm i know are the "dforce hair and fur and maybe strand based hairs not too sure about that, but the characters and cloths in general are "regular generated meshs, the only issue here would be the "geo shell stuffs which i'v talked in this thread basically anything

    agian if you are talking about create products for daz then i'm really not that good, maybe someone more experienced can help with that but asfar i remember to create characters for daz and it's not for 'free" you need talk with daz and get your hands on the daz creator app, talking with daz, i really don't know those things works.

     

    and a tip if you are "looking" to use daz for "mobile" i would advise to forget, daz characters and stuffs are not "optmized" for mobile, they are in general too high poly for mobile, you would need to use only the character and make your own outftis because none outfit from daz will work for mobile, neither the hairs, again most of the stuffs on daz are too high for mobile, maybe some "cartoon characters" are fine but "realistic none.

    The base mesh Daz has 16556 vertices, it even runs on a calculator. Characters that I use in Moblie have an average of 36000 in LOD0, 16000 LOD1, 6000 LOD2. Unreal was made to work with millions of vertices, in PC games or LOD0 I use 3 million vertices.
    For me the mesh base of Daz is very clean. That's why I want to get a blender with 5 million vertices to put in the daz and use the Morfs tools, modifiers, I don't want to sell in the store, I want to use only on my PC in my projects.

    3 millions in a single character???? omg, i don't recall any even triple AAA game having a single character with 3 millions vertices.

     

    that is why i say which it can only be good for mobile if you use only the base character and create yourself  the hairs, outifts and all stuffs, unreal can support billions of "polygons and huge open world but this don't means which you gonna have " that "billions or millions" being redenrized at the same time being able to hold millions or billions or even trillions don't means which it will handle all of the vertices at the sametime, the engine only render what is in your screen or inside the cam, not the whole world at the same time.

    First I make a character thinking about the cinematic, then I reduce and test it.
    For example, this LOL cinematic should have at least about 30 million vertices per scene. Artists have done it with millions and developers have reduced it to work on the PC.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF5Ddo9JdpY

    that is the "thing per the scene" not character, and again as i told you are only rendering in realtime what is on the cam anything else will not be rendered, this is why sometimes in games you have things "appearing in the scene outof nowhere, because the engine could not render the stuff in time then it get a delay in render and only appear later, because the stuffs already in the scene are too much, another thing is which in the past and even today many of the "cinematics are "pre- rendered" which means no realtime render this is why you can have "millions and billions of polygons in a scene in the cinematic, in order to do that for "realtime you have to reduce the poly count, ofcourse the unreal engine 5 is coming to "try to remove it by allowing you to be able to throw objects with "high poly count" without need to "reduce it or make lods", but for that you would need a "next generation consoles and pcs, with strong ssds and many memory, which for now many developers will avoid to go that high at last for pc in indie comunity to make sure as much people will be buying they games, because not everyone gonna be able to pay for a "top pc" to run those crazy games".

     

    This LOL Cinematc is already old.
    I want millions of vertices to deform the mesh using Normal Map, this will speed up my work.
    Example

    To use this option in pernures I use C ++, I don't know if you can do it through the interface in the released section.

  • EllessarrEllessarr Posts: 1,258
    Ellessarr said:
    Ellessarr said:
    Ellessarr said:

    I am new to daz, I had already downloaded it but it was incompatible with the programs I use the most which is Blender and Unreal, my focus is stylized games for mobile and PC.
    But now that I have the bridges, I intend to transfer my original characters into the daz.
    But I didn't understand how to create a mesh base. Is Daz Geneses 8 for example an algorithm that generates the base mesh or is it a standard mesh created in 3d software?
    How do you create Products? I want to create one with Mannequin Unreal ...
    Do you have an API to create scripts and plugins?
    I think there should be more video tutorials on how to design and import different skeletons.

    i'm a little confused about your questions

     

    it is about "exporting a character which you created in blender to daz????, then to do that i don't know because i never did that, now if you talking about exporting a character which you created in daz to unreal then you use the bridge

    all the characters in daz for what i know are "regular mesh", the only "algorithm i know are the "dforce hair and fur and maybe strand based hairs not too sure about that, but the characters and cloths in general are "regular generated meshs, the only issue here would be the "geo shell stuffs which i'v talked in this thread basically anything

    agian if you are talking about create products for daz then i'm really not that good, maybe someone more experienced can help with that but asfar i remember to create characters for daz and it's not for 'free" you need talk with daz and get your hands on the daz creator app, talking with daz, i really don't know those things works.

     

    and a tip if you are "looking" to use daz for "mobile" i would advise to forget, daz characters and stuffs are not "optmized" for mobile, they are in general too high poly for mobile, you would need to use only the character and make your own outftis because none outfit from daz will work for mobile, neither the hairs, again most of the stuffs on daz are too high for mobile, maybe some "cartoon characters" are fine but "realistic none.

    The base mesh Daz has 16556 vertices, it even runs on a calculator. Characters that I use in Moblie have an average of 36000 in LOD0, 16000 LOD1, 6000 LOD2. Unreal was made to work with millions of vertices, in PC games or LOD0 I use 3 million vertices.
    For me the mesh base of Daz is very clean. That's why I want to get a blender with 5 million vertices to put in the daz and use the Morfs tools, modifiers, I don't want to sell in the store, I want to use only on my PC in my projects.

    3 millions in a single character???? omg, i don't recall any even triple AAA game having a single character with 3 millions vertices.

     

    that is why i say which it can only be good for mobile if you use only the base character and create yourself  the hairs, outifts and all stuffs, unreal can support billions of "polygons and huge open world but this don't means which you gonna have " that "billions or millions" being redenrized at the same time being able to hold millions or billions or even trillions don't means which it will handle all of the vertices at the sametime, the engine only render what is in your screen or inside the cam, not the whole world at the same time.

    First I make a character thinking about the cinematic, then I reduce and test it.
    For example, this LOL cinematic should have at least about 30 million vertices per scene. Artists have done it with millions and developers have reduced it to work on the PC.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF5Ddo9JdpY

    that is the "thing per the scene" not character, and again as i told you are only rendering in realtime what is on the cam anything else will not be rendered, this is why sometimes in games you have things "appearing in the scene outof nowhere, because the engine could not render the stuff in time then it get a delay in render and only appear later, because the stuffs already in the scene are too much, another thing is which in the past and even today many of the "cinematics are "pre- rendered" which means no realtime render this is why you can have "millions and billions of polygons in a scene in the cinematic, in order to do that for "realtime you have to reduce the poly count, ofcourse the unreal engine 5 is coming to "try to remove it by allowing you to be able to throw objects with "high poly count" without need to "reduce it or make lods", but for that you would need a "next generation consoles and pcs, with strong ssds and many memory, which for now many developers will avoid to go that high at last for pc in indie comunity to make sure as much people will be buying they games, because not everyone gonna be able to pay for a "top pc" to run those crazy games".

     

     

    Ellessarr said:
    Ellessarr said:
    Ellessarr said:

    I am new to daz, I had already downloaded it but it was incompatible with the programs I use the most which is Blender and Unreal, my focus is stylized games for mobile and PC.
    But now that I have the bridges, I intend to transfer my original characters into the daz.
    But I didn't understand how to create a mesh base. Is Daz Geneses 8 for example an algorithm that generates the base mesh or is it a standard mesh created in 3d software?
    How do you create Products? I want to create one with Mannequin Unreal ...
    Do you have an API to create scripts and plugins?
    I think there should be more video tutorials on how to design and import different skeletons.

    i'm a little confused about your questions

     

    it is about "exporting a character which you created in blender to daz????, then to do that i don't know because i never did that, now if you talking about exporting a character which you created in daz to unreal then you use the bridge

    all the characters in daz for what i know are "regular mesh", the only "algorithm i know are the "dforce hair and fur and maybe strand based hairs not too sure about that, but the characters and cloths in general are "regular generated meshs, the only issue here would be the "geo shell stuffs which i'v talked in this thread basically anything

    agian if you are talking about create products for daz then i'm really not that good, maybe someone more experienced can help with that but asfar i remember to create characters for daz and it's not for 'free" you need talk with daz and get your hands on the daz creator app, talking with daz, i really don't know those things works.

     

    and a tip if you are "looking" to use daz for "mobile" i would advise to forget, daz characters and stuffs are not "optmized" for mobile, they are in general too high poly for mobile, you would need to use only the character and make your own outftis because none outfit from daz will work for mobile, neither the hairs, again most of the stuffs on daz are too high for mobile, maybe some "cartoon characters" are fine but "realistic none.

    The base mesh Daz has 16556 vertices, it even runs on a calculator. Characters that I use in Moblie have an average of 36000 in LOD0, 16000 LOD1, 6000 LOD2. Unreal was made to work with millions of vertices, in PC games or LOD0 I use 3 million vertices.
    For me the mesh base of Daz is very clean. That's why I want to get a blender with 5 million vertices to put in the daz and use the Morfs tools, modifiers, I don't want to sell in the store, I want to use only on my PC in my projects.

    3 millions in a single character???? omg, i don't recall any even triple AAA game having a single character with 3 millions vertices.

     

    that is why i say which it can only be good for mobile if you use only the base character and create yourself  the hairs, outifts and all stuffs, unreal can support billions of "polygons and huge open world but this don't means which you gonna have " that "billions or millions" being redenrized at the same time being able to hold millions or billions or even trillions don't means which it will handle all of the vertices at the sametime, the engine only render what is in your screen or inside the cam, not the whole world at the same time.

    First I make a character thinking about the cinematic, then I reduce and test it.
    For example, this LOL cinematic should have at least about 30 million vertices per scene. Artists have done it with millions and developers have reduced it to work on the PC.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF5Ddo9JdpY

    that is the "thing per the scene" not character, and again as i told you are only rendering in realtime what is on the cam anything else will not be rendered, this is why sometimes in games you have things "appearing in the scene outof nowhere, because the engine could not render the stuff in time then it get a delay in render and only appear later, because the stuffs already in the scene are too much, another thing is which in the past and even today many of the "cinematics are "pre- rendered" which means no realtime render this is why you can have "millions and billions of polygons in a scene in the cinematic, in order to do that for "realtime you have to reduce the poly count, ofcourse the unreal engine 5 is coming to "try to remove it by allowing you to be able to throw objects with "high poly count" without need to "reduce it or make lods", but for that you would need a "next generation consoles and pcs, with strong ssds and many memory, which for now many developers will avoid to go that high at last for pc in indie comunity to make sure as much people will be buying they games, because not everyone gonna be able to pay for a "top pc" to run those crazy games".

     

    This LOL Cinematc is already old.
    I want millions of vertices to deform the mesh using Normal Map, this will speed up my work.
    Example

    To use this option in pernures I use C ++, I don't know if you can do it through the interface in the released section.

    i'm getting a little confuse about what you really want...

    let's go back to the start, you was asking about how to import stuffs from blender to daz??? then go to unreal??, not could be more simple go blender to unreal??, you are talking about create stuffs for daz to sell???, i'm really confuse now about what you really asking for.

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