Why does DAZ Studio customers like Conforming Cloths better then Dynamic Cloths ?

Havos

This set looks quite useful for generic cloth objects, like sheets, towels etc:

http://www.daz3d.com/controllable-dynamic-shapes

However it says in does not work in DS 4.6. Anyone know if this is still true? I assume it also will not work in 4.7.

MacSavers

I can't remember, but I don't think it's required any more. I paid for the Dynamic Cloth training series by Dreamlight and I'm still waiting for the second module to show up. However, in his first module, he showed how he could influence dynamic cloth items in Daz Studio. I don't remember anything about having to buy something to do that with.

Khory

Dynamic clothing for x figure works on that figure (most of the time) without a time line drape, on figure y it will need the time line.

I’m assuming that IF I need to modify that skirt a tad

That one has something like 6 lengths. If you wanted something else other than that then yes, it would take way more than well.. leave it at way more.

The shapes controls are handy but you can always use primitives to tack and pull to some extent.

This set looks quite useful for generic cloth objects, like sheets, towels etc:

There is a set of sheets and pillows that is really awesome. But they really need the advanced control to get really realistic puffiness and collision.

MacSavers

Here's some of the features of the non-free version of the Dynamic Clothing Panel.

I wanted to try and recreate the Sharon Stone character from The Quick and the Dead movie. Most of the items are conforming clothing, which is perfectly fine in this instance. The pants, boots, vest, shirt, belt, etc. don't really need to be dynamic. However, the duster, which I purchased at the Optitex site that has the freebies, I felt needed to be dynamic. I even added some wind to the scene to try and get it to work the way I would like. Here are the extra panels and how I used them. I think Preference might still be in the free version.

Panel: Here I selected the Duster. I could select specific portions of the duster, but I wanted to handle the duster overall in this instance. The only thing I changed was the Thickness at the bottom. The default for most dynamic clothing is around 0.02 to 0.05. Having it 0.05 was causing poke through which is something we've been talking about trying to solve. This is how you do it for the most part. There is a second option to help in Preferences.

Physics: Here, you could change the gravity quite a bit, but I left it at 1.00. if you had an underwater scene you could change it to negative to make the clothing float. I did add a Cloth Wind. When you click the button, you get an object in the scene that looks like a fan with parameters that you can change. I made the wind be about five (5) miles per hour.

Preferences: Here, I changed the Collision Tolerance. The default is 0.20 which is pretty low and for lighter clothing might be okay, but I'm finding that a lot of clothing benefits from a higher number, although four (4) is pretty high. I could have made it lower and been fine as the thickness option in the Panel helped more than the collision, but it's still useful, especially having dynamic cloth on items that have sharp edges.

I've included the last view panel that I rendered. I did two renders, one with hair and one without. In the view panel you can see it with hair and it extends beyond the hat, so I used the two renders to mask out the hair that was sticking out of the hat to get the final product that you see at the bottom.

MacSavers

Havos said:

This set looks quite useful for generic cloth objects, like sheets, towels etc:

http://www.daz3d.com/controllable-dynamic-shapes

However it says in does not work in DS 4.6. Anyone know if this is still true? I assume it also will not work in 4.7.

Here's a link to a YouTube video about the Controllable Dynamic Shapes and it appears he's using 4.6 Pro in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhHPez3uZ8g

Khory

I don't have the duster so I can't check.. But it might benefit from some internal pressure early in the time line to lift the top bits on the duster so they clear her arms. Then turn it off as soon as it has lifted a bit so that it has time to flutter back down into place. I use internal pressure a fair bit to get things up and clear.

ZarconDeeGrissom

well, in the attached screen-cap, I tried changing both numbers to anything over 30, and it just bounces back to 30. It will not let me go beyond frame 30.

I have yet to set out to make an opacity map for the circle skirt, that looks really good Renpatsu. I'm not sure I would even go that far with my minor adjustment. I just want it to touch the knee, when draped flat against the leg (To keep it off the ground when taking a knee or such).

Thanks MacSavers for all the screen-caps thus far, there incredibly helpful for figuring out what I'm doing wrong, and where I need to be doing stuff.

Khory said:

Dynamic clothing for x figure works on that figure (most of the time) without a time line drape, on figure y it will need the time line.

I’m assuming that IF I need to modify that skirt a tad
That one has something like 6 lengths. If you wanted something else other than that then yes, it would take way more than well.. leave it at way more. I was thinking width of the bottom (amount of cloth for movement), not the length. still the same tho, as adjustments are just not possible in daz studio.

I was afraid of that, as I am working with stuff two generations newer then V4, and the figure shape differences do show on some things. case and point, that one dress dose not appear as revealing in the promo (V4) then it dose on G2F. It is just-about to fall to the side of G2F's chest. In any case "leave it at way more.", as I am looking at having no other choice for my own renders. not to sell, not for the love of making cloths. yes, biting my tong.

The shapes controls are handy but you can always use primitives to tack and pull to some extent.
This set looks quite useful for generic cloth objects, like sheets, towels etc:

There is a set of sheets and pillows that is really awesome. But they really need the advanced control to get really realistic puffiness and collision. I have no use for something like that at the moment, I am taking notes, as I suspect someday I'll need curtains and drapery like stuff.

I need to look at my notes again, and your post MacSavers regarding the extra control panel, as I'm having some difficulty translating smoothing/collision "Lock distance" into something on your screen-cap. I'm sure I'm not understanding something, yet. Also, moving gravity to somewhere other then vertical for a specific figure (for the other attached possibly)?
(EDIT)
Thickness, is equivalent to "Lock distance", ok.
Direction of gravity? Two fans?

ZarconDeeGrissom

Khory. In the Optitex software there is options for different size hemlines (grading) for different sizes of the outfit. Dose that not translate to the Daz Studio Export utility for different figure shapes? Say for V6 vs Olympia 6?

Or is making them for CG outfits just pointless at best, or not function? Or would it as you mention earlier, require a completely separate outfit, for each morph possibility?

Khory

I could be wrong..it happens on occasion. I think that v4 is slightly larger in scale overall from the genesis women. V6 is the closest but I want to say is still a percent or two smaller. I know that genesis1 was a good deal smaller unless you used super model or what ever that v5 shape was.

To expand the time line try adding the higher number in FPS. But I really strongly suggest that you try much lower frames than higher frames. If its being strange you can always stop the animation and do a short static drape to get things to fall into line a bit then restart it.

Something to watch for is poses that rotate the body dramatically can make things quirky. I have seen a few poses that rotated the body nearly 360 degrees. Spinning is not good for drapes so consider fixing the pose so that it rotates the correct direction before starting the drape. Even a 90 rotation may function better if you go ahead and do the rotation on the hip in the first frame and rotate the clothing to match the hip. It cuts out some of the work that can make things behave wonky.

Khory

Khory. In the Optitex software there is options for different size hemlines (grading) for different sizes of the outfit. Dose that not translate to the Daz Studio Export utility for different figure shapes? Say for V6 vs Olympia 6?

Or is making them for CG outfits just pointless at best, or not function? Or would it as you mention earlier, require a completely separate outfit, for each morph possibility?

The optitex patterning software creates new pattern sizes. 2, 4, 6, 8 and so on. It saves a design house a bunch of time because it does all the layout for them rather than them having to do the sizing manually. It also does layout to make the pattern placement on the cloth as "tight" as possible to save money on fabric. But end of day those pieces are to be cut out and sewn into those 2, 4, 6 and so forth fashion pieces. Creating alternate sized or lengths or what ever is going to require a different object just like in the real world. The flare skirt is not really 1 skirt with 8 lengths it is one file that has 6 options that are really 6 different "objects" each. Some times the UV maps match but just as often not.

There are very few times you can get dramatic length differences on a single piece of clothing in our little world. With some conforming clothing you can get away with trans maps but even with those it isn't a "works every time" sort of thing. And hem morphs are also going to mean texture stretching. With dynamics it is even less viable because so often the cloth ends up bouncing against itself or colliding with the environment and a trans map would be obvious. There are some places it can be used. I think the circle skirt is one because it does not tend to get too caught up in itself and does not collide with the floor often. For a kneeling pose with a trans map I would be tempted to not have it collide with the floor and hope that the new him would "skim" where the floor would be rather than interact.

ZarconDeeGrissom

So grading in a DUF for an outfit, would still require a separate object and data file tree, for each variation of each of the G2F's morph sliders, to say nothing of the possibilities of combinations of them. Not even getting into the Daz Original ad-on shapes, and there variations. So a single Dynamic item for Genesis2 that was compatible with the morph slider sets, could very well need billions of objects if not way more, hmm.

Thanks for the nid-bit about the rotations, as the "As you wish" poses set do twist the waist, and had thrown me some curve-balls already.

So I take it, tacking another second onto the timeline, is beyond whatever that is in daz studio at the bottom of my screen. Another topic to start digging into deeply I guess.

Thanks.
(EDIT)
Is it not possible to make a mat, for the largest grading, and just trim it down in Daz, for whatever size it is on?
(EDIT2, it may require some UV mapping work for the parts to only use the proper aria of the texture map)

Leana

zarcondeegrissom said:

Is it not possible to make a mat, for the largest grading, and just trim it down in Daz, for whatever size it is on?

It would only work if the different skirt objects are mapped to be compatible with each other. Optitex software will map the pieces automatically in the same way that you would put the pattern on real fabric when creating the real clothes, so yes it would most probably require remapping all the pieces.

Khory

So I take it, tacking another second onto the timeline, is beyond whatever that is in daz studio at the bottom of my screen.

People do animations of more than 30 frames in studio all the time. Adding the extra frames in the FPS slot added more frames for me. That said I almost never have to add frames. If I need more "time" I tend to stop the animation and do a few static drapes to smooth things out. More often than not I set the pose at 20 and can stop the animation there.

MacSavers

Khory said:

I don't have the duster so I can't check.. But it might benefit from some internal pressure early in the time line to lift the top bits on the duster so they clear her arms. Then turn it off as soon as it has lifted a bit so that it has time to flutter back down into place. I use internal pressure a fair bit to get things up and clear.

Yeah. I'm gonna play with that and perhaps play with the individual settings of the shoulder caplet to make it more apparent and keep it from going under the left arm. Not sure why it did that.

ZarconDeeGrissom

As I get my brain going, here is one I don't think Khory had seen, as it was in a thread that kind of fell threw the cracks, and got lost in time. The question being, dose the skirt work on G2M, amongst many others. It fits G2M better matching the V4 drape, then it dose G2F (Specifically FW Eve). I would only be trimming it back to about that green band, approximately. "O" done without animating anything, pose, drape, render.

Havos

MacSavers said:

Havos said:

This set looks quite useful for generic cloth objects, like sheets, towels etc:

http://www.daz3d.com/controllable-dynamic-shapes

However it says in does not work in DS 4.6. Anyone know if this is still true? I assume it also will not work in 4.7.

Here's a link to a YouTube video about the Controllable Dynamic Shapes and it appears he's using 4.6 Pro in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhHPez3uZ8g

Thanks for that, so hopefully it does work in 4.6 (and probably 4.7). I will consider picking it up.

ZarconDeeGrissom

Thanks Havos, Khory, Leana, MacSavers, MelanieL, Renpatsu, for the long sought after insight and advice.

Rotating Gravity? It looks like the only way to achieve that for a single figure in a scene, is to stick the entire world onto a null. Rotate the null till things are the way you want the item to fall. Then drape that one item only. Then rotate the world back to drape all the other stuff in the scene (Being careful not to touch the one figure out of phase/reality).

2 fans? Thus leaving the question about two fans in the control panel, can it do that, for say a skirt sucked in two different directions?

Grabbing the cloth? Bowing with a long Victorian dress. Weather it be Titanic, or pirates of the Caribbean, or the countless other vids I've seen the gesture. How would the Dynamic skirt ever be convinced to do that? (EDIT, The Circle Skirt dose not exactly have loops to put toes things on/in?)

MacSavers

You are able to add as many wind fans as you'd like from what I can tell. It's never told me it can't add another when I click the button.

Khory

Rotating Gravity? It looks like the only way to achieve that for a single figure in a scene, is to stick the entire world onto a null. Rotate the null till things are the way you want the item to fall. Then drape that one item only. Then rotate the world back to drape all the other stuff in the scene (Being careful not to touch the one figure out of phase/reality).

I need to understand what the real world scenario of a single piece going against the gravity of the rest of the scene. Even under water everything would be floating together. I also don't think you need to rotate the world just the object draped with the fabric you want to go against gravity.

2 fans? Thus leaving the question about two fans in the control panel, can it do that, for say a skirt sucked in two different directions?

I've used several at once in the past.

Grabbing the cloth? Bowing with a long Victorian dress. Weather it be Titanic, or pirates of the Caribbean, or the countless other vids I’ve seen the gesture. How would the Dynamic skirt ever be convinced to do that? (EDIT, The Circle Skirt dose not exactly have loops to put toes things on/in?)

You would need to use primitive to pin the fabric about where you wanted the hands to go then you would pose the hands around the pinched up fabric.

ZarconDeeGrissom

Khory said:

Rotating Gravity? It looks like the only way to achieve that for a single figure in a scene, is to stick the entire world onto a null. Rotate the null till things are the way you want the item to fall. Then drape that one item only. Then rotate the world back to drape all the other stuff in the scene (Being careful not to touch the one figure out of phase/reality).

I need to understand what the real world scenario of a single piece going against the gravity of the rest of the scene. Even under water everything would be floating together. I also don't think you need to rotate the world just the object draped with the fabric you want to go against gravity.
And anything the skirt would be in contact with, understood. As for why, say a hologram or something other then the one thing I'm still working on (swapping out the armbands with something closer to what I wanted, and tweaking the gravity-light-bend effect still).

The skirt is supposed to be getting tugged towards the ends of the staff here. (edit, this is not dynamic, and done with d-forms, lots of d-forms)

2 fans? Thus leaving the question about two fans in the control panel, can it do that, for say a skirt sucked in two different directions?

I've used several at once in the past.

Thanks Khory and MacSavers. The screen-cap didn't quite show if there was a limit or not.

Grabbing the cloth? Bowing with a long Victorian dress. Weather it be Titanic, or pirates of the Caribbean, or the countless other vids I’ve seen the gesture. How would the Dynamic skirt ever be convinced to do that? (EDIT, The Circle Skirt dose not exactly have loops to put toes things on/in?)

You would need to use primitive to pin the fabric about where you wanted the hands to go then you would pose the hands around the pinched up fabric. wouldn't the cloth just slide off of the primitive as it is getting lifted up?

Not a Daz3d available Figure, custom morph

Khory

wouldn’t the cloth just slide off of the primitive as it is getting lifted up?

Key word is pinned. A little cylinder with a fair number of polys so that the fabric catches can be used to move the fabric around.

MelanieL

I'm really enjoying this thread - lots of useful tit-bits to be picked up here which will help me with my own use of dynamics - thanks!

ZarconDeeGrissom

While I try to rig up a test, and the stuff resetting the drape every time I move the figure, grrrr. lol. Move everything around first, then drape.

MelanieL, you need not apologies. I've been neglecting my other hobby for some time now, just trying to grapple all this CG stuff. "Sextans B" is somewhere of a joke, and part of that other thing I was working on. As for the spontaneous flood of answers. I guess the people that know how to use antique stuff on current generation figures are on holiday/vacation and have a few much appreciated spare minutes here and there to answer the questions.

Khory, I have no idea what you are saying by the word "pinned". I am simply assuming that when I lift up the primitives over the duration on the animation, the skirt will appear as if it is held up by the hands (Assuming I can get that part of the pose close, lol). I think them cylinder primitives have 36 sides and 36 segments, is that enough?

about Nine months ago, I had seen a vid about doing something like this in poser, however it was for poser, and the person was not even saying what he was typing on the keyboard as he was rapidly clicking stuff, so it was just about completely useless. The vid about that cloth and helper set showed some curious looking things aside from the single closed torus used. Is one of them a "Pinned" helper?
(EDIT)
And yes, I am making sure the cylinders are completely inside the skirt, that's what I've been fussing with the past hour or so.

ZarconDeeGrissom

I found it easier, to place the cylinders in the scene un-parented vertical. slide them out at about frame 5, and the hands down. Then parent the cylinders to the associated hand for the rest of the procedure. Make sure the end of the cylinder is not touching the hand, and the hand is open enough that the fingers will not end up going into the cloth. Later adjustments after the rest of the steps may be needed.

move ahead to about frame 20. pose the figure as such, ensuring that there is a clear path for the cloth to be between the fingers, palm thumb, and the cylinder. I didn't bother going all out to pose the fingers for the pose, as this was just a test to see if it would even work.

Now go back to frame 1. drape the skirt in still frame mode first, then do the animated drape. This is when you will see if the fingers get in the way at frame 5 or not.

Is there an easier way, probably, probably not, lol.

On that thought, is there anything like a dynamic string, thread, rope or such? Dynamic shoelaces?
(Edit)
And even then, after draping, re-posing, and draping again. It may take a bit of work to get all the fingers out of the cloth, and looking somewhat believable. This was my first ever attempt to try this.

MacSavers

I'd love to see the ability to 'pin' something as well. It would be nice to have some control of the clothing beyond just draping the model.

Khory

I'm not 100 percent satisfied with this example. I think I should have gone with a front fold and pushed back. It will do for an example though.

First I went to frame 15 and added the pose I was shooting for. I just picked one where her hands would be near where I wanted them for the final pose (which I would add at least 1 frame higher so that it doesn't muss with the draped frames). I loaded in a cylinder that is long enough to see where it is going and narrow enough to cause to much interference. In frame 15 I placed it where I wanted the top of the fabric to end up and then I went back to frame 1 and moved it down so that it would intersect the fabric where I wanted it pulled up.

I ran the drape with just that and though that the fabric should push forward as well as up. So I added a sphere around the cylinder in frame 1 and moved to match height wise in 15 but also forward some to push the fabric. I think were I shooting for a usable drape I would have selected somewhere more forward on the skirt for the pin and then pushed the fabric back rather than forward. You can see how it works though.

ZarconDeeGrissom

Thanks Khory, I was not thinking so literal. :ohh: lol. I was thinking more like a sticky ball (Velcro?). It has been my experience the past five or more months of failures, that if the dynamic item is going threw to much of what it is set to collide with, or it is set to collide with to many things, it just falls threw down and out the bottom of the world, as if nothing is there at all.

static drape first, then put the 'pin' threw the cloth. I could almost see using the timeline frames to move that threw the cloth, tho I've yet to try that. I am kind of thinking ahead a bit, as after that bow to the crowd, they don't keep holding the skirt as they leave the stage (or start the next routine/number). Simply adding primitives one frame, then removing them later on dose not work. I doubt the timeline also allows the collide with to be altered threw-out the time line as well. The ball and pin, is a good idea, as the pin can be pushed threw the cloth and ball during the timeline, I think (missing the Scratching chin emoticon).
(EDIT, What if you use the hand instead of the ball to do the pinning? Put the pin into her hand at the appropriate fame, no ZZ Top song references intended, lol)

I can not stress how aggravating this can be, if your fussing with the pose of the figure, that I have yet to figure out completely. It seams like moving a finger joint will not touch the drape that was already done, and then the next one will cause the drape to reset it's self, and you need to go back and completely drape everything on that figure again from the beginning. lol. (Just a warning to those that think this will be a cinch, and take no time at all to do)

(EDIT3)
Saving a scene subset, Dose NOT, clear the timeline from setting up a new animation. It is a waste of many things to try that, as the scene subset save options lack a "Current Frame Only" option. You can clear a hand full of items using the "Clear Animation" menu option.
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/42768/
Now the other way. Slide the arrow to the "Key Frame" you want to remove, then click that 'key' thing with the 'x' in it. In my case, I started at the far right, and slid it back till stuff started moving, to find where the key-frames were. And clicked 'Remove key frame' thing around that spot in the time line, till the pose reverted to the former key-frame pose. then repeated that, till I was back to where I wanted to start over from.

Khory

Simply adding primitives one frame, then removing them later on dose not work. I doubt the timeline also allows the collide with to be altered threw-out the time line as well.

I've added and removed primitives during a drape. I just stop it where I need to and do what needs doing. I also often set things to collide or not during the drape. I don't remember if it effects the whole drape or the frames going forward or not.

The ball and pin, is a good idea, as the pin can be pushed threw the cloth and ball during the timeline, I think (missing the Scratching chin emoticon).
(EDIT, What if you use the hand instead of the ball to do the pinning? Put the pin into her hand at the appropriate fame, no ZZ Top song references intended, lol)

You could sort of use the hand. Fingers tend to be short polys and go through things so you might want to stick some primative balls on the tips with a higher poly count.

It seams like moving a finger joint will not touch the drape that was already done, and then the next one will cause the drape to reset it’s self, and you need to go back and completely drape everything on that figure again from the beginning. lol. (Just a warning to those that think this will be a cinch, and take no time at all to do)

In general moving something set to collide with the figure will cause the drape to fail. You can sometimes uncheck the part you need to move after the drape and it will not reset or you can move ahead a frame or two to do what ever movements you need. You can also freeze the drape but I am a bit vague about how that is done as I have never needed to do it.

ZarconDeeGrissom

freezing the drape, kills all dynamics, and turns it into basically a static obj. Not exactly useful here.
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/48721/

Un-Colliding the hands, and using primitives in the finger tips may actually work quite well, including reducing the amount of stuff the Drape code needs to juggle. I just thought doing anything like that to the figure the outfit was on, would make the OptiTex code panic or something. As soon as I figure out how to clear out all the stuff after frame '0', I'll give that a try. (without everything hyper-jumping to world center in the scene) Got it!

OK, I have stuff at frame 20, that is not a key-frame, and I cant seam to get rid of it. GRRRRRRRRR-slam-slam-slam, lol.

(EDIT)
"O", that's how you add time. Grab that whatever-it-is thing, and drag it out to the number of seconds you need.

Khory

You might ask in a different thread about the more detailed animation tricks. I really don't do much past the basics to get the dynamics taken care of.