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You need the advanced plugin to help with animations. Sequential, concurrent, time step and iterations will help with what you want to do.
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I believe HeraldOfFire was using animations because that's what he(?) thought needed to be done with dynamic items.
Perhaps somebody who actually uses dynamic clothing successfully could post a step-by-step list of what one needs to do in order to use dynamic items. (Yes, I know - DAZ3D seems to think "documentation" is a four-letter word, but it's necessary sometimes.) That way, we'd all be talking about the same process.
I believe DAZ Studio needs to address its animation tools in general in the future. Its my hope that it will happen and that hopefully it will bring along the dynamic clothes via Optitex or any other plugin people develop. As for documentation, I know there are a few good video tutorial DAZ keeps on their youtube channel. I haven't checked the documentation lately but DAZ did wrote a couple of real nice Optitex documents when the plugin first came out and used to keep handy in their old website.
Perhaps somebody who actually uses dynamic clothing successfully could post a step-by-step list of what one needs to do in order to use dynamic items. (Yes, I know - DAZ3D seems to think "documentation" is a four-letter word, but it's necessary sometimes.) That way, we'd all be talking about the same process.
What steps are followed depends upon whether or not you are using the figure the dynamic clothing item was designed for and whether or not you are using the free player or the for pay dynamic cloth control plugin.
In the case of cloth dynamics, it isn't DAZ that's to blame for the lack of documentation. DAZ handed over all aspects of cloth dynamics to Optitex after the merger. The Optitex website has forums including one that has tutorials. Have you looked at any of them?
I like what dynamic clothes can do but it is a lot of work for little return most times. And forget having more than one dynamic item on a figure. That is to much of a pain to deal with. Generally, I will go for conforming just because I don't have hours to deal with dynamic. Plus DS dynamic clothes kill a scene from being able to open for me. It just seems to corrupt the file or something and it just errors out anytime I have save with dynamic clothes.
DAZ has never merged with Optitex. In 2009 DAZ merged with Gizmos which is also located in Israel but the two companies are unrelated. Optitex's primary market is the fashion design industry and I suspect what they got out of the collaboration was the addition of a player for the people who use their products.
I believe Optitex doesn't have any involvement in DAZ Studio cloth room other than holding DAZ to their restrictions with the clothing creation. As far as I know the paid for player and the free one are maintained by DAZ. The name Optitex in DAZ products and the website belong to a Published Artist - Martin so not even that is officially Optitex.
That very much depends on how you do it. I prefer to drape in layers and don't find that it is very difficult to get the look I want. I find the limited range of motion that looks good with many conforming clothes far more frustrating that waiting on a drape. I always have something else I can do while that is running.
What version of studio? What figures, items? Have you reported this to Bruce? It will really help me and your other fellow PAs that sell dynamic clothes.
I believe Optitex doesn't have any involvement in DAZ Studio cloth room other than holding DAZ to their restrictions with the clothing creation. As far as I know the paid for player and the free one are maintained by DAZ. The name Optitex in DAZ products and the website belong to a Published Artist so not even that is officially Optitex.
After the merger with Gizmoz, the then DAZ PTB announced that all aspects of cloth dynamics would be handed over to Optitex. It was a long thread in the old archives that is currently inaccessible. That was pretty much the last thing out of the head honchos like Steve Kondris regrading what would happen with cloth dynamics.
Actually Optitex has had involvement in the past. They adapted the free player that is part of DS. They developed the cloth control plugin. As the Optitex commercial system is Windows only the beta release of the plugin was windows only. It took time to develop the mac version. Much longer than anticipated. They were supposed to develop the promised cloth creation plugin as well.
I'm well aware that Optitex wasn't the company DAZ merged with. I even stated it in an earlier post.
After the merger with Gizmoz, the then DAZ PTB announced that all aspects of cloth dynamics would be handed over to Optitex. It was a long thread in the old archives that is currently inaccessible. That was pretty much the last thing out of the head honchos like Steve Kondris regrading what would happen with cloth dynamics.
Actually Optitex has had involvement in the past. They adapted the free player that is part of DS. They developed the cloth control plugin. As the Optitex commercial system is Windows only the beta release of the plugin was windows only. It took time to develop the mac version. Much longer than anticipated. They were supposed to develop the promised cloth creation plugin as well.
I'm well aware that Optitex wasn't the company DAZ merged with. I even stated it in an earlier post.
Yes, past tense. I believe in actuality Optitex has as much hands in the DAZ clothing room as the people who sold to Poser their Poser cloth room technology have now. What I mean is the ones in charge of keeping the engine running is DAZ, Optitex is long gone.
After the merger with Gizmoz, the then DAZ PTB announced that all aspects of cloth dynamics would be handed over to Optitex. It was a long thread in the old archives that is currently inaccessible. That was pretty much the last thing out of the head honchos like Steve Kondris regrading what would happen with cloth dynamics.
Actually Optitex has had involvement in the past. They adapted the free player that is part of DS. They developed the cloth control plugin. As the Optitex commercial system is Windows only the beta release of the plugin was windows only. It took time to develop the mac version. Much longer than anticipated. They were supposed to develop the promised cloth creation plugin as well.
I'm well aware that Optitex wasn't the company DAZ merged with. I even stated it in an earlier post.
Yes, past tense. I believe in actuality Optitex has as much hands in the DAZ clothing room as the people who sold to Poser their Poser room technology have now.
Larry Weinberg still has his ties to Poser. He is the man who created the Pose room technology. If you are referring to the Poser cloth room, Curious Labs entered into an agreement with Size8 Software and Size8 helped CL design the cloth room. Size8 Software has since gone under as has Curious Labs. While EF and SMS have made some code improvements to the cloth room, it is still pretty much the same as it was when it was developed jointly between CL and Size8. In fact, the cloth room is still credited to Size8 the same as the face room is credited to Singular Inversions.
The DS cloth dynamics system is based on the Optitex pattern to clothing commercial system. It's proprietary. If Optitex won't have a hand in developing anything futher for cloth dynamics then who will? DAZ has never stated they purchased any part of Optitex. It was originally stated as a joint venture.
I'd say closer to decade, not couple years.
Well how many years since we have had the current dynamics engine in DAZ Studio so yea, probably more than 2 years.... Certainly not a decade....
Simon is of course correct. Optitex let Martin have his site hosted by them but he is not employed by the company to do the dynamic clothing. Because he has been a part of the fashion world for many years he owned the program already and the then CEO got him to help with the clothing creation. He also tutors students at various fashion institutes to use the programs in their businesses and does other things that relate too but are not part of the company. So products that say optitext don't indicate any ongoing connection with the company past the PA naming.
Since the original announcement that DAZ and Optitex would work together in 2007 both companies have gone through quite a few upper level changes and different people have different priorities.
Yes, past tense. I believe in actuality Optitex has as much hands in the DAZ clothing room as the people who sold to Poser their Poser room technology have now.
Larry Weinberg still has his ties to Poser. He is the man who created the Pose room technology. If you are referring to the Poser cloth room, Curious Labs entered into an agreement with Size8 Software and Size8 helped CL design the cloth room. Size8 Software has since gone under as has Curious Labs. While EF and SMS have made some code improvements to the cloth room, it is still pretty much the same as it was when it was developed jointly between CL and Size8. In fact, the cloth room is still credited to Size8 the same as the face room is credited to Singular Inversions.
The DS cloth dynamics system is based on the Optitex pattern to clothing commercial system. It's proprietary. If Optitex won't have a hand in developing anything futher for cloth dynamics then who will? DAZ has never stated they purchased any part of Optitex. It was originally stated as a joint venture.
Yes, the cloth room of course. All bugs have been fixed by DAZ in the last few years and the cloth room, or cloth tab in this case is maintained by DAZ. It was a joint venture originally but like Khory says quite a few changes happened that invalidated this joint venture.
DAZ had the right idea, partner with a fashion industry standard and improve on the dynamic clothes available by creating a hybrid conformer/dynamic, unfortunately things didn’t work out as expected for the creation engine part.
My apologies if these have already been posted, but they may help some:
http://www.optitex-dynamiccloth.com/
http://www.optitex-dynamiccloth.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=3&sid=cafe709ba6ed204240ecd789d1806954
And especially...
http://www.optitex-dynamiccloth.com/TipsNTricks.pdf
Thanks for posting this Kevin. That's a big help for everyone wanting to master the tools. Here's another link to the documentation center:
http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/artzone/pub/software/dynclothctrl/overview
Here is another tutorial "Your first drape and beyond": http://docs.daz3d.com/lib/exe/fetch.php/artzone/pub/tutorials/dazstudio/dynamicclothing_yourfirstdrapeandbeyond.pdf
And a very recent video on controllable dynamic shapes available in Draagonstorm product as well as my supersuit sets:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhHPez3uZ8g
And thanks for those links, Simon!
When users ask what the big missing features in DS are, the answers that inevitably come back are Dynamic cloth, Dynamic Hair and Multiple Collisions/Soft Body Dynamics. Given that all three of these have been available in Poser for over a decade, where they all work perfectly well on DAZ figures, it's certainly something that could have been developed at anytime during the development of DS3 or DS4. (If DAZ had really wanted to implement a better dynamics system in DAZ, a contract with Optitex wouldn't have been a significant barrier to having another third party solution grown.) However, it's obviously not been on the top of the list of priorities for DAZ, especially given that we also still don't have real dynamic cloth for Carrara, which at one time was intended to be a much more advanced step-up program than what it is now. Why?
I suspect that DAZ has (historically) been happy enough with the market as it stood. Remember, conforming clothing and hair work in DS, Poser, Carrara, Bryce, Vue, etc., etc, all the way up the chain, whereas sales of a dynamic product are inherently limited to users of compatible software. Therefore, if all other costs were equal, a conforming item is potentially much more profitable than a dynamic version. That would seem to be born out by the fact that, despite the cloth room's existence in Poser for 11 years, none of the other major purveyors of products for the Poserverse (Rendo, RDNA, Content Paradise) sell more dynamic products than conforming ones either.
And of course, while Poser users may have the benefit of the superior draping of the Cloth Room, they don't enjoy anything that comes even close to the speed and ease of DS's autofit. Obviously I'd prefer to have both, but even so, I've found that I've used DS almost exclusively since the introduction of Genesis, only pulling Poser Pro '12 out when I need the features that DS is lacking.
I wouldn't say Poser has superior draping, I've used both and I prefer DAZ Studio, specially for illustration work which is what most users do.
Its interesting to see how much the engineers who are left in charge of updating the Size8 cloth room software know or their lack of knowledge with programming and understanding the dynamic engine as in more than a decade the software hasn't progress at all. When I first heard that Poser Pro 2014 was going to have a "live" dynamic clothes simulation mode, I was really excited because it sounded like a huge improvement to their cloth room until I saw that it doesn't works with their dynamic clothes. Unlike Marvelous Designer's and any proper LIVE MODE, Poser's only works with cloth planes which is not very useful. Not only it doesn't works with dynamic clothes but its also terribly laggy when colliding with figures.
I didn't realize we could conform and then sim on the fly without the timeline now! It's been too long since I looked at DS dynamics, clearly. I bought Simon's medieval fantasy gear to try it out again.
Yes, the problem with the conformers is only with the generation 4 rigged dynamic clothes that as you know have a different bone structure to Genesis. The clothes have to be re-rigged to Genesis 1 or 2. Since Genesis 1 & 2 have the same bone structure, dynamics rigged to Genesis 1 will conform with Genesis 2 and vice-versa. Right now all my dynamic clothes have Genesis 1 & 2 versions with the exception to the robes and Martial Arts Gi which Martin already re-rig and are waiting in my queue to be reworked for release to DAZ.
Sorry, to clarify, by "superior draping" I meant the ability to clothify and drape a conforming item, which you obviously can't do in DS at all.
I'll agree that the lack of progress in the Poser Cloth room is disappointing, as well as that PP 2014's "new" features were rather underwhelming... hence the fact that I'm still using 2012 with the old Poser Physics.
Obviously I'm not directly privy to the decisions behind the development of either software, but the general feeling I've got from my talks with the SM guys is that Smith Micro has focused on a broader approach that sees Poser as something that works in a suite with both higher-end tools like C4D, VUE and Lightwave, as well as side-ways with in-house products like Manga Studio and Motion Artist. Whereas it seems like DS's development has been mainly about creating a larger market for the clothing and accessories that are DAZ's bread and butter, with developments for things like outside render engines and animation coming primarily from the PAs. Obviously both approaches are valid, but it's why "Poser" is the name that most users in the greater CG world still apply globally to this little niche we occupy, whereas DAZ is, first and foremost, known for it's quality content.
Let's not forget that with dynamics we don't have to worry about cling-wrap cleavage. There are very few times that I've wanted form fitting clothing.
I'm willing to concede that's not the case for some, but it has been a rocky start for me as a dynamics user in Daz.
The rig needs to be selected before you fit it to the figure if I recall correctly.
Yes, the problem with the conformers is only with the generation 4 rigged dynamic clothes that as you know have a different bone structure to Genesis. The clothes have to be re-rigged to Genesis 1 or 2. Since Genesis 1 & 2 have the same bone structure, dynamics rigged to Genesis 1 will conform with Genesis 2 and vice-versa. Right now all my dynamic clothes have Genesis 1 & 2 versions with the exception to the robes and Martial Arts Gi which Martin already re-rig and are waiting in my queue to be reworked for release to DAZ.
Awesome. I'm playing around with the medieval set right now, and it's amazing how easy it is to use! Very exciting.
What version of studio? What figures, items? Have you reported this to Bruce? It will really help me and your other fellow PAs that sell dynamic clothes.
I think it was 4.6 that most recently did it. I was using one of the robes on Genesis but I can't remember which one it was and I can't open the file now. Another time it was the hooded cloak on the M4 skeleton.
I haven't reported it to Bruce. I think I put in a bug tracker forever ago but it was closed.
hybrids and all are cool if you all want them.
But I would like to see 100% Hair, Cloths Dynamics in DAZ Studio like they have in the Main App's Max,C4D,Blender.etc etc.
Real Dynamics are cool also.
Note Please
Just a friendly reminder that each of us has our preferences as to what they find easiest or best, please do not turn those preferences into a debate on which is better since that is subjective based on who you ask and is likely to turn into an app war type discussion.