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Mythmaker, thank you for the detailed answers and the renders. So far, this is looking like some kind of Holy Grail for realism seekers (and I am almost sure that I will buy it today, thanks to the stupid Labor Day coupon at Rendo... *grumble, grumble*). I must admit I am a bit mystified by the "jello like bra" workaround, how would that work? And, even if the figure is turned into a prop, if you exported a walk cycle wouldn't there be some way to retain the animation? Or exporting the "bounciness" as morphs for the original figure (preferably already added to the timeline)? I mean, I am guessing it does something like this for props when exporting animations, otherwise it would be really annoying to use. Thanks once again for the answers, now I am going back to debating with my budget.
@ Uthgard
Re: jello bra workaround... lol I was just speaking off the cuff based on the little I know. Like most VWD users here I got the Daz bridge a week ago so am still discovering things it can or cannot do.
There seem to be 2 major workflow types: VWD for still render, VWD for animation. My focus is latter. The demo I showed so far are for still renders. For animation like figure-figure collision, figure own muscle jiggling, an exploration in progress for me too!
I can safely say, most of things you want can be achieved for single frame still renders, thanks to VWD's multiple options for stretchiness and controlled pinning, and definitely its awesome, organic, intuitive freeze frame dynamic deformation!
I try to remind myself (so I won't mislead fellow Daz users) that VWD is named VWDClothandHair and never claimed to do anything beyond what it's called. VWD's YT videos features mostly pretty girls in dresses and long hair, VWD's intended solution. The fact that VWD does convincing/ rigid enough realtime manipulation of earrings, metal chains, necklaces, and especially dynamic deformation (what I'm going to call dynamorphing) are bonuses to its users. What is side dish is to me the main course lol!
It's quite amazing, come to think of it, a plugin tailored for Poser is made possible to work with 2 other softwares, with their own 3rd party created products too! (Thank you Philemot!)
@SickleYield - the hair error bug has been reported by a few and being investigated indeed. But do play with the various cloth rigidifcation options and nailing/vertx fixing. I managed to get most hairs to work importing them as Cloth objects, but you' probably explored/discovered that already.
Do get in touch with (very earnest) Gerald VWD and offer your valuable ideas; he's busy working on more proper documentaiton and tutorials for Daz users.
Which is why so many experienced modellers use cloth sims these days, to at least get a base mesh to build on.
One thing the VWD lets you do is "nail" a group of specific vertices in the cloth to another set of specific vertices in the collision item. You can use that to, in an animation, have a character reach out and pick up a cloth item, for example. It's something I never had any success with using OptiTex stuff and primatives and all that to try to simulate "grabbing" the cloth. Today I ran a quick test using VWD to have the character walking up steps in a long dress "grab" her skirt and lift it a bit.
So back to the original question as to why conforming is preferred to dynamic, I can say that until recently there was no real alternative in Studio and conforming works well enough in a lot, maybe most, of the cases. Dyanamics from whaetever tool you use (poser, VWD, Optitex, Marvelous Designer) require you to do a lot of extra work that a conformer doesn't demand. But the render below would not look good with conforming items and the actual bunching of the cloth in her fist would be stone cold impossible. Both are tools in the toolbox and it's good to have both as the situation demands.
Thank you!! Clothifying worked. At first I had issues getting any results at all, but the actual problem was that you need to "nail" very few verts in the skullcap to get good results (nailing the entire cap results in a vibrating stationary hair unless you really sharply change the falloff settings).
Has anyone successfully simmed:
1. A two-layered outfit in
2. A sitting or lying position (a high surface area of collision with two surfaces)?
I can sort of get sets like the Friar Robes to work in standing poses IF I'm willing to fix some layer clipping with additional morphs (which I am, that's a quick fix in Blender with Proportional Edit on), but any sitting or lying down position where there's real collision with a chair or the ground results in everything freaking out and flying into space, suddenly refusing to collide with the arms and legs, etc.
This is also relevant to very long hairs like the Spiderqueen hair when a chair plus a robe is involved.
If you got this to work, help with settings please? I tried reducing the self collision distance and increasing the samples/iterations. This is not time-prohibitive on my machine, but it didn't work; I got dreadful freakouts and/or errors and crashes, and I tried splitting layers into objects and simming them separately and got ugly clipping and more freakouts.
Just wanted to chime in... bought VWD today (and of course the DS Plugin). I'm running the first simulaions now, and it is a lot of trial and error. The documentation is really extensive and has some examples, but what I'm missing are some comparision values. I mean, I can increase the softness value to make the cloth more soft, but what would be the equivalent of, say, cotton or silk?
Other than that, VWD was really worth the buy. It's a mighty tool that will need a lot of learning hours to master it, but even just fiddling around and experimenting, the results are quite amazing. And the best is that I can take any item of the cross-generation wardrobe and iron out the evils of autofit distortion.
In the PDF that ships with VWD there's a section on how to simulate a dress with a belt that talks about preventing the dress layer from penetrating the belt. If you search for "There is a solution to prevent interpenetration" it'll go to the section I'm talking about. I followed the steps and it did prevent the dress layer from penetrating the belt but I can't say that I truly understand exactly how this works or if it could be generalized to the outfit you are talking about.
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I seem to recall a Pro plugin for dynamic cloth. Was that the creation or control? Did the plugin ever come out? Have I had too much beer over the years and am confused?
Thanks to everyone who gave helpful advice! It's still fiddly to get layered things working but I've definitely made progress. I still can't make hair collide with this robe without just flying off into space as the sim freaks out, but it collides fine with the figure, and I did a quickie morph to nudge it out over the clothes. This will be my procedure from now on. The skin and robe mesh are mine; the robe shaders and props are Daz3D; the hair is from elsewhere and I put Slosh's shader on it and added a green tint to part of it.
Pretty good job on the robe sim...
As usual the devil is in the variables...but protocol correctness aside - layering a 50K poly coat on simulated 25K poly dress, is already asking a lot of the plugin I reckon...
I wouldn't bother simulating any hair above 50K. Few simulator engine can cope with 90% of typical "hair" of the Daz/Poser world. In fact, for my animation workflow anyway, I don't plan to have any long hair above 10K. This means I have little choice but to model my own long hairs.
The skilled cloth sim users have decimator and external morphing tools so there's always a (faster) way out...
But Daz3D needs more skilled hair (and clothing) modelers to take it into next gen workflow....
The robes are one piece and were simmed as one (it worked better ultimately than separating them into two sims, go figure). The count is 16k+15k, only about 31k polys total. They look like more because I added SubD, smoothing and mesh offset to the final mesh when sim was done.
The hair I used is indeed relatively low-poly, but I can get it to work just fine with SAV hairs and other high-poly ones provided they only collide with the figure and have self-collision turned off.
VWD's insistence on renaming material zones and borking the materials back to 3Delight is very frustrating. Of all the features I wish the program had or didn't have, this one is the one I would like gone soonest.
First off DaWaterRat I love your username it made me giggle. I'm a primarily Poser user and prefer conforming over Dynamic...But it can make a lovely render is you want a robe or a veil or some such that you want the effect of blowing in the wind.
I find each tool is good for different things.
Conforming is often good enough, with some tweaking. There is an art to that... for example, scaling items and reducing the influence of morphs that produce weird effects. But straps and buttons and a few other things can warp badly.
I find dynamic most useful at the ends... either very close, skimpy stuff, like bras and tshirts, or really large flowy gowns and similar. Much of the stuff in between, conforming seems easier, most of the time.
Philemot said a fix is being worked on for the materials in the VWD Rendo forum so hopefully we'll see that resolved sometime soon.
50K? 50K is child's play. Try simulating several million.
Kendall
Yep i got it. i continue looking for an upgrade to come thru with a fix but nothing yet.
I downloaded the bugfixed version yesterday.
I also made a comparision render video of an animated draping of a V4 dress to G2F. https://vimeo.com/182627975
(I don't know how to embed a video here, does anyone know how to do that?)
I like dynamic clothes, each product that comes out should have a conforming object and a dynamic one... especially for the price of some conforming products that can't be bothered to have morphs built into them to help deal with the issue of poke through.
Well, with VWD every set DOES have a dynamic version whether that's intended or not. :D In fact, using conformers is a big benefit in that you can do basic posing with the bones and then only have to do a static sim instead of a dynamic (much faster).
Lovely video, BeeMKay! Where is a good place to get legal music for that use?
Scerridwynn, etc.: Make sure you get the free update to the DS bridge from your Renderosity account. I installed it yesterday and today I tested with a couple of hairs on Genesis 3 Male, and it appears the crash on using hair is gone (although clothifying it instead seems to give a faster sim).
One problem I run into frequently with conformers is straps. Shoulder straps VERY easily distort when posed.
The Dynamic Things (since I can't refer to them directly) help immensely, if I keep initial posing to a minimum.
Now, more complete/flowing outfits I can pose, and THEN drape. Which is faster, but unfortunately seems to only work in maybe 1/5 of the outfits I find it necessary to dynamicizabationate.
Rigidify in VWD is SUPER helpful for things like straps and belts. I think we're allowed to mention the program as long as we don't link to the other site.
Thank you!
I really got a kick out of creating that scene, though I started at least six times over before it worked out. There's a fine balance between having enough polygons to avoid poke-through, and program abort due to memory overflow...
Unfortunately, dynamics didn't really solve the problem of groin V distortion when you autofit the clothing, but a workarounde would probably be to load and then parent in place? I need to test what is the best option.
For music, I stumbled across this database: http://freemusicarchive.org
You can specify what kind of license you are looking for, and also if something is available for video. They have lots of really great music there! It's Public Commons license for non-profit projects, though I think some can also be used in commercial usage. It's definitely worth checking out.
Thank you, that's very helpful. :)
VWD copes fine with all the hair; those that have pony tails or ribons can slow it down for me; it generates 'springs' from the mesh, and above 5 million it gets laggy, but i've run simulations with over 30 million springs (which admittedly wasn't fun); OOTs new Cath hair is about 116k verts 60k faces, and doesn't generate anywhere near 30 million, and has more geometry than most.
So yeh, it will go slower, but depends on your system. 3D Redering is a resource hog; folks think they have a good gaming PC, well for rendering and processing data in simulations, it can all too often suck.
VWD likes CPU cores. Time to get that Xeon system I decided against last time I upgraded. Soooooo, anyone got a couple lieing around?
So.... is anyone planning on bringing more dynamic clothing products for genesis 2 and 3 figure? Would love to see more if they are being offered. :)
Your products have been pretty darn good. :D