Daz Studio 4.12 Pro, General Release! (*UPDATED*)

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Comments

  • RayDAntRayDAnt Posts: 1,002
    edited May 2020
    scorpio said:
    scorpio said:
    RayDAnt said:
    scorpio said:
    RayDAnt said:
    scorpio said:
     
    RayDAnt said:
    scorpio said:

    Theres defiantely a problem when this version of DS shuts down. I used to be able to shut DS down and relaunch straight away now I have to wait and wait and wait . Will this be fixed soon.

    scorpio said:

    ...

    No, it doesn't.

    Actually there does - I used to be able to shut DS down and relaunch straight away now I have to wait and wait and wait its really annoying until I get fed up and end it in Task manager - will this be fixed any time soon please?

    Can almost guarantee you that this is a symptom of a problem (Daz Studio itself or one of its plugins not shutting down in a timely fashion) that has been plaguing your system for quite some time. It's just that DS is now designed to detect this behavior and respond in a way (delaying the start of a new process until the old process has fully cleared) that avoids file read/write errors.

    What this update is exposing is that there are a number of plugins (at the very least the Octane and Iray renderers) that have previously unrecognized (at least officially - Iray has been an unofficially known offender about this for years) issues with shutting down when expected.

    If it's a known problem with Iray then why deny it's happening,

    No one has ever denied that it is an (intermittently) existing problem. It's the core reason why so many experienced DS users are in the habit of process killing DS from Task Manager as a goto solution for when things don't seem to be working right.

     

    scorpio said:

    and why design the new version to detect the behavior because as user we are going to notice and consider it a bug.

    Because it technically is a bug since it leads to situations where multiple instances of DS would be reading/writing to the same set of config files at the same time. Which directly contributes to unexpected application crashes and file corruption.

    Erm - I asked and was told no DS didn't take a while to shut down so yes it is being denied.

    I said normally there isn't a problem with DS shutting down.

    Sorry but when I asked

    Has this version got a problem with not shutting down properly? you said

    ''No, it doesn't.''

     

    All I'm trying to establish is should this be ticketed as a bug or is it as RayDAnt says something that has been going on for a while or is it a problem that just I have?

    It's all of the above. This is a longstanding issue that effects certain users more than others (due to factors like what mixture of solid-state vs. spinning magnetic storage drives you use with your system) that should be bug reported whenever encountered. Especially if it impacts your user-experience with the program (which it now most definitely will due to the recent changes Daz has made.)

    Post edited by RayDAnt on
  • NEXASSETSNEXASSETS Posts: 83
    edited May 2020
    lycanine said:

    Also, I just realized....no iray is rendering for me! Very upset over this as I will have to uninstall everythinG!

    Why "have to"? Uninstalling then reinstalling everything (including all your content?) is almost never an actual solution that will work to fix a DAZ|Studio problem.

    • Have you just installed the new update?
    • If not, what D|S version are you using?
    • Have you checked your Render Settings to make sure everything is still the way it should? Some people (apparently random) have reported that updating the program changes program settings (this shouldn't happen).
    • What's your computer system; Windows? Mac? What OS version?
    • What is your graphics card? What version is your card driver? If your computer is Windows, note that Windows Update has the bad habit of replacing driver versions that work with Iray with versions that don't. Your driver must come from the card manufacturer's website.

    I just rolled back to the old version of 4.12.

    Post edited by NEXASSETS on
  • RayDAntRayDAnt Posts: 1,002
    edited May 2020
    lycanine said:
    lycanine said:

    Also, I just realized....no iray is rendering for me! Very upset over this as I will have to uninstall everythinG!

    Why "have to"? Uninstalling then reinstalling everything (including all your content?) is almost never an actual solution that will work to fix a DAZ|Studio problem.

    • Have you just installed the new update?
    • If not, what D|S version are you using?
    • Have you checked your Render Settings to make sure everything is still the way it should? Some people (apparently random) have reported that updating the program changes program settings (this shouldn't happen).
    • What's your computer system; Windows? Mac? What OS version?
    • What is your graphics card? What version is your card driver? If your computer is Windows, note that Windows Update has the bad habit of replacing driver versions that work with Iray with versions that don't. Your driver must come from the card manufacturer's website.

    I just rolled back to the old version of 4.12.

     

    I did all my diligent due checks before uninstalling. The software worked for me flawlessly up until now. Never had issues before on any massive scale. I was using 4.12, I have Nvidia 1080 graphics card, Ryzen 1700x core, 32GB ram DDR4, Gaming Aorus motherboard (high tier when it was released, now mid tier after newer versions has been released by the manufacturer), windows professional (64bit architecture) latest update installed- usually this never has issues with software in my computer. I must have gotten lucky in that regard, and yes, I always make sure my graphic card drivers is up to date. You have to realise there are people like me that work with computers, build our own and understand it to a large degree. I looked at the settings and the only settings that changed after install were the rendering settings. Up to now none of my other settings changed as I never customized them. This time it was Daz that failed, plain and simple.

    Did you try restarting your computer and then - prior to attempting to launch Daz Studio - uninstalling and then re-installing Daz Studio via DIM? Because the symptoms you mentioned sound suspiciously like a side-effect of DIM attempting to update DS while DS was still running (which will result in a mixture of two different release's binary runtimes being jumbled together.)

    Post edited by RayDAnt on
  • dawnbladedawnblade Posts: 1,706

    Under what circumstances would an add-on need to continue to run (or still be in memory or however you mean) when the user exits DS? If there are no compelling reasons--which I don't really think there are but would like to hear if there are--then DS should just kill the add-ons when DS is closed.

     

  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 19,013
    dawnblade said:

    Under what circumstances would an add-on need to continue to run (or still be in memory or however you mean) when the user exits DS? If there are no compelling reasons--which I don't really think there are but would like to hear if there are--then DS should just kill the add-ons when DS is closed.

     

    Plug-ins might need to store data, clean up temp files, release memory. DS doesn't know why a plugin hasn't closed.

  • dawnbladedawnblade Posts: 1,706
    edited May 2020
    dawnblade said:

    Under what circumstances would an add-on need to continue to run (or still be in memory or however you mean) when the user exits DS? If there are no compelling reasons--which I don't really think there are but would like to hear if there are--then DS should just kill the add-ons when DS is closed.

     

    Plug-ins might need to store data, clean up temp files, release memory. DS doesn't know why a plugin hasn't closed.

    Sure, I can see those scenarios. But from @scorpio's test: "I just timed it and it was almost exactly 5 minutes, where my CPU usage dropped when I first closed  the lowest it got to was 4% then it climbed and fluctuated between 7-8% until it shut completly." That seems like a very long time to store data, clean up temp files, and release memory. I opened/closed DS, didn't even bring up Octane's windows, just a quick open/close, and DS was still in memory. I didn't time it, when I get a chance I will, but what possible data would an add-on need to store, etc. in that scenario? Open/close. Done. Still in memory.

     

    Post edited by dawnblade on
  • namffuaknamffuak Posts: 3,718
    dawnblade said:
    dawnblade said:

    Under what circumstances would an add-on need to continue to run (or still be in memory or however you mean) when the user exits DS? If there are no compelling reasons--which I don't really think there are but would like to hear if there are--then DS should just kill the add-ons when DS is closed.

     

    Plug-ins might need to store data, clean up temp files, release memory. DS doesn't know why a plugin hasn't closed.

    Sure, I can see those scenarios. But from @scorpio's test: "I just timed it and it was almost exactly 5 minutes, where my CPU usage dropped when I first closed  the lowest it got to was 4% then it climbed and fluctuated between 7-8% until it shut completly." That seems like a very long time to store data, clean up temp files, and release memory. I opened/closed DS, didn't even bring up Octane's windows, just a quick open/close, and DS was still in memory. I didn't time it, when I get a chance I will, but what possible data would an add-on need to store, etc. in that scenario? Open/close. Done. Still in memory.

     

    Given the reports of Octane issues at shutdown - these are questions for Otoy to address, not something Daz can do anything about.

  • RayDAntRayDAnt Posts: 1,002
    edited May 2020
    dawnblade said:
    dawnblade said:

    Under what circumstances would an add-on need to continue to run (or still be in memory or however you mean) when the user exits DS? If there are no compelling reasons--which I don't really think there are but would like to hear if there are--then DS should just kill the add-ons when DS is closed.

     

    Plug-ins might need to store data, clean up temp files, release memory. DS doesn't know why a plugin hasn't closed.

    Sure, I can see those scenarios. But from @scorpio's test: "I just timed it and it was almost exactly 5 minutes, where my CPU usage dropped when I first closed  the lowest it got to was 4% then it climbed and fluctuated between 7-8% until it shut completly." That seems like a very long time to store data, clean up temp files, and release memory. I opened/closed DS, didn't even bring up Octane's windows, just a quick open/close, and DS was still in memory. I didn't time it, when I get a chance I will, but what possible data would an add-on need to store, etc. in that scenario? Open/close. Done. Still in memory.

     

    Step #1 - check your log file. The answer very well may lie there. See what's described to be going on during/immediately after those seconds/minutes of delay between "closing" DS and the entire process tree actually shutting down (every line in the logfile is timestamped to help troubleshoot in situations exactly like this.) Many plugins like Iray are actually full-fledged programs unto themselves that are designed to make a graceful exit only after all their underlying tasks have completed. But since they are implemented as plugins, they are at the mercy of DS to properly communicate to the end user that there is something that they are still doing/need to do.

    Post edited by RayDAnt on
  • scorpioscorpio Posts: 8,000

    Looking at the log it does seem to be Iray that is preventing it from closing. But this does not explain the second instance in the Task manager.

    Not only is DS taking a long time to shut down twice today I have noticed a second instance of DS in the task manager.

    One instance closes within a few minutes but the second has not, its still open over 20 minutes after closing DS, I am not opening more than 1 instance of DS at a time, DS is sometimes not closing completly at all.

  • marblemarble Posts: 6,746
    edited May 2020

    After readin this I've been checking my task manager. The shutdown period seems to depend on the complexity of the scene but mine are averaging around 30 - 40 seconds over the past couple of days. I'm running the 4.12.1.117 beta without Octane installed.

    Post edited by marble on
  • BobvanBobvan Posts: 2,611
    edited May 2020

    Wich one is it? All I see in the draw settings is delayed or continious or optimized or full can you post screenie:)

     

    The suggestion vanished WTF??

    Post edited by Bobvan on
  • I can't open multiple Daz windows after updating it to the current build. The previous one was working fine, and I updated it through DIM. Whenever I try to open a new window of Daz it just highlights the already opened one. 

  • DoctorJellybeanDoctorJellybean Posts: 6,202

    I can't open multiple Daz windows after updating it to the current build. The previous one was working fine, and I updated it through DIM. Whenever I try to open a new window of Daz it just highlights the already opened one. 

    One needs a script to create additional instances. See this post for more info, the script is at the bottom:

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/5112696/#Comment_5112696

  • I can't open multiple Daz windows after updating it to the current build. The previous one was working fine, and I updated it through DIM. Whenever I try to open a new window of Daz it just highlights the already opened one. 

    One needs a script to create additional instances. See this post for more info, the script is at the bottom:

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/5112696/#Comment_5112696

    Why is it so in this build? Or is that default for a long time? I installed Daz manually without DIM and I needn't need to use any such scripts then. Is it just due to installing via DIM? I also need to name the instance for some reason. This is some ridiculous setup to launch Daz.

  • DoctorJellybeanDoctorJellybean Posts: 6,202

    I can't open multiple Daz windows after updating it to the current build. The previous one was working fine, and I updated it through DIM. Whenever I try to open a new window of Daz it just highlights the already opened one. 

    One needs a script to create additional instances. See this post for more info, the script is at the bottom:

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/5112696/#Comment_5112696

    Why is it so in this build? Or is that default for a long time? I installed Daz manually without DIM and I needn't need to use any such scripts then. Is it just due to installing via DIM? I also need to name the instance for some reason. This is some ridiculous setup to launch Daz.

    It has been since 4.12.1.40, and it applies to standalone installers as well as the DIM package.

  • peteanderson1212peteanderson1212 Posts: 71
    edited May 2020

    I can't open multiple Daz windows after updating it to the current build. The previous one was working fine, and I updated it through DIM. Whenever I try to open a new window of Daz it just highlights the already opened one. 

    One needs a script to create additional instances. See this post for more info, the script is at the bottom:

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/5112696/#Comment_5112696

    Why is it so in this build? Or is that default for a long time? I installed Daz manually without DIM and I needn't need to use any such scripts then. Is it just due to installing via DIM? I also need to name the instance for some reason. This is some ridiculous setup to launch Daz.

    It has been since 4.12.1.40, and it applies to standalone installers as well as the DIM package.

    Not entirely true. If that were the case I wouldn't be here first thing as soon as it messed up. Maybe it's a glitch or not I still have it on my laptop and my girlfriend's both on which I can easily open multiple instances of daz without any additional work. Whatever they were thinking before implementing it, it's a totally wrecked up move. Reinstallation of Daz didn't help at all (without DIM, I had to, since that script eventually made me loose my Daz layouts and everything, gladly CMS and content directories were unaffected.)

    In the last Daz version I can easily open multiple windows of Daz. 

    EDIT: Why the heck would they also remove links for previous releases? Looking for the v4.12.0.86 release to test it out on a different system.

    Post edited by peteanderson1212 on
  • DoctorJellybeanDoctorJellybean Posts: 6,202

    Actually, it started in the previous version: 4.12.1.16. See the previous post

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/5003831/#Comment_5003831

  • DoctorJellybeanDoctorJellybean Posts: 6,202

    Actually, it started in the previous version: 4.12.1.16. See the previous post

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/5003831/#Comment_5003831

    Yeah I found out about it too. Still don't know how good of an idea it even is. Read that it might become optional or something. Totally freaking sucks and now I can't find an installer for the previous build. What the heck am I supposed to do? That whole instancing thing is just a pain in the ass. Would appreciate it if someone could forward me to the previous build (Public build. 4.12.0.86)

    The purpose of the new method (script to create instances) is for a safer and more reliable setup. Using the script to create instances only take a few seconds, and they can then be executed from shortcuts. There are plenty of applications which don't allow multiple instances, e.g. PhotoShop.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 82,531

    Copying from a post I made elsewhere:

    You can create shortcuts for different instances of DS that you set up with the script DoctorJellybean links above. For example, run the script and set the optins like this to create a new instance called renderMule (I was thinking of using it as a renderer), taking its settings and UI from the General release (you can pick a different version or existing instance in the dialogue). I should probably have picked one of the clean options too, so it starts as a clean copy of the chosen target. Don't check launch, we are going to make a short cut for that. The other two options are for passing additional arguments and for setting a file for the instance to load on launch (say a default scene with cameras already set up, if the instance was for making new scenes).

    Click Accept and an alert pops up showing the command line - click Copy to put it on the clipboard.

    Now right-click on the Desktop (or wherever) and select New>Shortcut. Paste the copied command line into the location box and click Next, then name your shortcut (e.g. DS RenderMule). Now you can use that short cut to launch the RenderMule instance of DS, and it will copy its settings and UI from the General release.

  • peteanderson1212peteanderson1212 Posts: 71
    edited May 2020

    @DoctorJellybean I can relate to why it can be and is a safer/reliable setup. And maybe some users even asked for it or find it useful. And then there will also be some users who wouldn't. This was something released in a public beta, I don't understand why there was a need to implement it into a general release. Considering the amount of newbie users there might be, I just had to waste 2 hours to find what it was and all, since I don't frequent the forums here or keep up to date with the news related to Daz and beta builds.

    1-2 hours were then wasted in trying to also find a workaround which did not involve the script. Again, really don't see the need to implement it into a general release when the option to disable it or whatever kind of option they are *going-to implement in the future for it, wasn't there yet. If it were just the case of instances and all, it could have just done it in secret and maybe included the default settings for it, when Daz would normally launch (when this whole thing wasn't present)

    All this thing with the script and all seems like at-a-glance for advanced users and not for anyone who installs Daz for the first time or is still new with it and comes from the old build.

    On the side note, having to name the instances is like a thorn stuck in your finger, which just keeps bugging you. And then it shows up on the title bar too. And also creates a new icon in the taskbar. And an additional (unnecessary) shortcut. Not that I mind all those things or anything of the sort, but honestly it could have been implemented in a more sophisticated way for which a new user or anyone wouldn't find it any different from the previous way Daz would launch. Overall, it just needlessly makes the process of working cumbersome. Of course it's a one time setup, but this is something a normal user wouldn't have had a need to be doing or indulging in.

    EDIT: @Richard+Haseltine I already know of it, that's why I said it's a one time setup. Regardless of one time or not, it shouldn't have been necessary at all. 

    Post edited by peteanderson1212 on
  • scorpioscorpio Posts: 8,000
    scorpio said:

    Looking at the log it does seem to be Iray that is preventing it from closing. But this does not explain the second instance in the Task manager.

    Not only is DS taking a long time to shut down twice today I have noticed a second instance of DS in the task manager.

    One instance closes within a few minutes but the second has not, its still open over 20 minutes after closing DS, I am not opening more than 1 instance of DS at a time, DS is sometimes not closing completly at all.

    Still getting this - according to task manager I've got 2 DS running (I'm not running this script so that you can have 2 DS open at once) is this normal behaviour?

  • DoctorJellybeanDoctorJellybean Posts: 6,202
    scorpio said:
    scorpio said:

    Looking at the log it does seem to be Iray that is preventing it from closing. But this does not explain the second instance in the Task manager.

    Not only is DS taking a long time to shut down twice today I have noticed a second instance of DS in the task manager.

    One instance closes within a few minutes but the second has not, its still open over 20 minutes after closing DS, I am not opening more than 1 instance of DS at a time, DS is sometimes not closing completly at all.

    Still getting this - according to task manager I've got 2 DS running (I'm not running this script so that you can have 2 DS open at once) is this normal behaviour?

    There should only be one if you don't have any instances. Which version are you using?

  • scorpioscorpio Posts: 8,000

     

     

    scorpio said:
    scorpio said:

    Looking at the log it does seem to be Iray that is preventing it from closing. But this does not explain the second instance in the Task manager.

    Not only is DS taking a long time to shut down twice today I have noticed a second instance of DS in the task manager.

    One instance closes within a few minutes but the second has not, its still open over 20 minutes after closing DS, I am not opening more than 1 instance of DS at a time, DS is sometimes not closing completly at all.

    Still getting this - according to task manager I've got 2 DS running (I'm not running this script so that you can have 2 DS open at once) is this normal behaviour?

    There should only be one if you don't have any instances. Which version are you using?

    4.12.1.117

  • RayDAntRayDAnt Posts: 1,002
    edited May 2020

    @DoctorJellybean I can relate to why it can be and is a safer/reliable setup. And maybe some users even asked for it or find it useful. And then there will also be some users who wouldn't. This was something released in a public beta, I don't understand why there was a need to implement it into a general release.

    It's because the existing method of allowing multiple instances (having no limits on the number of identical DS processes launched) was leading to program instability since they were all actively reading/writing from the same set of configuration files simultaneously. In the past this didn't matter so much since most of Daz Studio's popular workflows didn't need much in the way of intermediate file storage to operate. But with the rise of things like advanced scripting and 3rd party plugins, safe temp file access has become much more critical. Hence the need for a change.

    Post edited by RayDAnt on
  • f7eerf7eer Posts: 91
    edited May 2020

    If you saw my original recent comment, nevermind!

    Post edited by f7eer on
  • ooofestooofest Posts: 36
    edited May 2020
    jerham said:
    scorpio said:

    I just ran a render trying the new Matt Fog thing, I didn't notice anything different with it on or off. Now DS won't launch at all

    scorpio said:

    I just ran a render trying the new Matt Fog thing, I didn't notice anything different with it on or off. Now DS won't launch at all

     

    A reboot of the computer seems to have solved the problem with DS not launching.

    What is the Matt fog suppose to do?

    Turn it on, change the Matte Fog Brightness Tint colour and adjust the Matte Fog Visibility (m) value. If e.g. you have a fig in front of the camera, change the Matte Fog Visibility (m) value to a low number, e.g. 30.

    As for DS not launching, it may be that it was still running.

    Erm and what exactly should I expect to see.

    Has this version got a problem with not shutting down properly?

    You should see matte fog when rendering or using the Iray DrawStyle. The screenshot shows it in grey.

    No, it doesn't.

    Are you sure?  

    Since the new version it does not shut down correctly here.The window closes and won't restart. Because daz studio stays active in the taskmanager and the only way to really close it. Is to end the DAZ studio application proces from the taskmanager. 

    Did a complete new/fresh install and the shutting down issue still exists. After some troouble shooting i believe the issue is with the Octane plug-in (in my case). When i disable the plug in it shutdowns correctly with the plug in enabled it goes wrong and stays active in the background.

    It should be taken up with the developer of the Octane plug-in.

    It has been taken up with the Developer of the Octane plug-in and he was able to recreate this hang situation with Daz, but says that the Octane plug-in has already closed by the time Daz hangs:

    https://render.otoy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=382375#p382375

    It doesn't matter which level of Octane plugin that I use with Daz, the effect is the same on v4.12.1.117.

    The only thing that changed was the Daz level: earlier versions close fine with Octane plugin installed.

    ALL: Does this need a ticket to Daz?

    Post edited by ooofest on
  • f7eerf7eer Posts: 91
    ooofest said:
    ALL: Does this need a ticket to Daz?

    Yes, if you want Daz to look at it.

  • DxC09DxC09 Posts: 33

    I've been having a massive problem with this build with Daz not closing or some phantom version remains open  and if scenes are saved and then you try to render  Daz will cause my PC to have to  be reset It does it with the public build and the beta versions so 4.12.1.117 oh and pressing shift - k does nothing to turn off the keyboard movement

     

     

  • Ki-JenKi-Jen Posts: 58

    Actually, it started in the previous version: 4.12.1.16. See the previous post

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/5003831/#Comment_5003831

    Yeah I found out about it too. Still don't know how good of an idea it even is. Read that it might become optional or something. Totally freaking sucks and now I can't find an installer for the previous build. What the heck am I supposed to do? That whole instancing thing is just a pain in the ass. Would appreciate it if someone could forward me to the previous build (Public build. 4.12.0.86)

    The purpose of the new method (script to create instances) is for a safer and more reliable setup. Using the script to create instances only take a few seconds, and they can then be executed from shortcuts. There are plenty of applications which don't allow multiple instances, e.g. PhotoShop.

    Beeing a software developer myself, I understand the problem of starting multiple instances of a program that was meant to be run only once. But I didn't understand the current solution. I have seen two workarounds here, the -instanceName option and the script. But what did you mean with "safer and more reliable"? Is it reliable in a way that we can start mutliple instances without risking the instances destroying each others data? Or is it only "more reliable" with a risk still remaining?

    And if the solution is save, isn't it possible to implement automatic instancing in DS itself instead of forcing the user to manually add command line options or calling scripts?

  • DoctorJellybeanDoctorJellybean Posts: 6,202
    Ki-Jen said:
    But what did you mean with "safer and more reliable"? Is it reliable in a way that we can start mutliple instances without risking the instances destroying each others data?

    That. Previously multiple instances shared the same data, files, settings, etc.

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