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DAZ Productions, Inc.
224 S 200 W, Suite #250
Salt Lake City, UT 84101
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© 2024 Daz Productions Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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The fact that the hair/fiber tool will be incomplete, with features withheld for the arbitrary PA system, is a big negative for me. Better to emphasize efforts with open platforms than to get stumped by ones where features are distributed arbitarily to choosen users in a non-transparent system of patronage. I had been waiting for DAZ to introduce a fiber system, but lacking the ability to get long fibers to naturally fall with the pose makes the system rather ineffective compared to tools in professional packages.
-K
i would gladly pay for a dforce Hair plugin with all functions ;)
Last week, we had no hair system. This week, we have strand hair.
Net win.
Will maps for fiber color be a PA-only feature (right not the map function for fiber color seems to be disabled)? Hard to tell what is beta and what is proprietary without any doc.
-K
You expect documentation for a brand new uncompleted feature? Not to mention, if people actually read what was written rather than what they want, once would notice that dForce hair and Strand based hair were discussed and treated as separate items.
I had no luck at all importing maps for the strand-based hair feature until I realised how picky it was about the names. If you export one, you'll see the filename format - editing that map and then reimporting it with the same name won't work, as it chokes if you ask it to overwrite what's already there. You need to change the part of the name between the square brackets for the import to work.
When you export, you'll find two maps in the folder (assuming you're creating hair for GF8 etc), the face map and the torso map. Make sure you edit the names of both of these as described above before importing, as clicking Import and clicking on one of the files in the resulting file picker box will bring both of them in, causing the program to choke on the second one if you've yet to get round to editing it's name.
That's been my experience of it, anyway. It's only a bit quirky ;)
The point of beta is to test In order to test, one needs to know what features work and don't work and what controls do and don't do. So yes, I don't expect finished doc, but I do expect (in order to test) minimal information on controls so I can file *useful* bug reports rather than telling the developers:
a) I can't use a feature which they know isn't supported yet
b) I can't use a feature that is excluded to a different set of beta testers
While forum discussions are fun and all, fiber based systems aren't all that new in 3d platforms nor is the interaction of physics with said fibers (usually tesslated lines) or strands (usually represented by underlying splines.) Digging through the 10+ pages of commentary, it isn't clear to me what DAZ wants tested and what should be left alone.
The problem for a software manufacturer in testing is that if they only test with those only experienced in their solution, is that frequently they neither get the feedback of those with more industry experince nor do they get very critical feedback that improves the product (the "we didn't have anything before so this is something" syndrome.) Hence open beta's get them that feedback, usually without compensation for tester.
The impression I get from the direction of the discussion is that there are two levels of a hair and fiber system: one for the general user and one for their PA team. I am looking for guidance on which controls are usable (by the general user) and which are not to be bothered with (because they're PA only)--why the mystery?
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That is a good work-around then... sorry I misunderstood.
Thanks for the helpfil response! I see where the texture control maps get imported and I'll fiddle with it to see if I get a color-control map to behave as expected. You're right the import-export is a bit "fiddly"...
Later: I was able to important the map, but I am still at a loss as how to apply it to color. There are drop-downs on the "Distribte" tab that says "no map" but when I open the drop down, it shows me nothing but "<no map>" and won't accept my imported color maps. Maybe it's not implemnented in my version of the beta.
I tried to point out earlier as others also have said in posts that are here scattered around
the texture colours are not in the interface but a separate iray shader
there are two, one for vertical UV’s I suppose using just colours and one that does pelts from the roots called dual lobe
My post is not viewable so understandable
it had to be pointed out to me by someone not on the forum
Hair net win?
But I am with you inasmuch as I look forward to using this and making a mess like I did with Garibaldi and LAMH! On the plus side I wil not have paid to have that privilege.
I don't normally post reactions, but Simon... HAHAHAHAHA! Nice
I've been looking for this seperate iray shader but looking in the surfaces tab I can only find "DAZ-studio Strand-Based Hair RSL"... none of the inputs seem to want to take a map input... perhaps this needs to be edited in the Shader mixer?
-K
A small experiment of fur use; https://i.imgur.com/XSf8a3N.png
I think I'll stick to LAMH until a good fur making method is found. But I do think strand based absolutely is greast for hair.
The Iray shader can be found via the content library tab under My Daz 3D Library/Shader Presets/Strand-Based Hair. Apply that to your hair and there should be spaces for map inpiuts in the appropriate places.
The IRAY Hair shader is part of the dForce starter essentials update. You need to download that.
TD
Added: Here is a quick example with some hair painted on a shere and a random texture added:
Where does one get "dForce Starter Essentials" with dual-lobe iray node? This seems to be the piece that lends map color, but I can't seem to find it DAZ Install Manager?
-K
Unfortunately "dForce Starter essentials" does not seem to be in my install manager nor in the store, so I am at a lost as to how "get" dForce Starter essentials .... any clues from the DAZ employees on the forum or do I need to open a support ticket to get the shader? (I have been looking for this mystery package for the last hour.)
It is part of the DAZ Studio item. I got mine from my product library. Just filter by "Starter" Just go to MyAccount and then product library and then set the filter tro "starter" It should show up together with the other starter bundles.
TD
Great+best=greast!
Found it the hard way--even though it's in my library, it doesn't show up in install manager for some reason. Downloaded the lasted .zip direct from my library tab on the web site. Thanks--your example looks great!
How does this work on a model with multiple surfaces & multiple UV's like G8, for example? Or is it better to create a seperate fiber zone for each of the models underlying surfaces?
Thanks again--with the right shader, the fibers are look 100% better in my test case.
Based on my limited tests so far, the textures you set in the shader use the UV maping of the underlying surface. So if the map changes you need a new surface/fiberzone, but I am still playing around to see how it works in detail.
Ciao
TD
I was thinking about this last night and I came up with several reasons Daz might decide not to make this feature available to just anyone:
It is disappointing. But it's also understandable.
And from what I've seen, we can still do a lot with the new stranded hair. I'm looking forward to toying with it, once my current project is complete.
@Kerwin, I'm not a PA, so I'm just guessing here, but I suspect the code the PAs have has an "Add dForce Modifier: Dynamic Hair" option, (or something like that,) added to the other options for dForce. Then the dForce hair settings would be applied to the material zones just as the dForce cloth settings are applied to material zones now.
The updated dForce Starter Essentials includes the Mohawk seen in the video. That will give us the opportunity to play with the settings.
Thanks for all your help--I've somewhat come to the same conclusion. Now that I have that new shader node, the colors and look on my animal models are coming out really nice.
-K
It sounds reasonable; Daz provide a lot of free tools, some however, they keep for their own and PA's use.
Think how sad you would be if there was no Daz because they couldn't do what they do. Or how sad you'd be if they didn't release any of these new features, but kept them for PAs.
Within one hour of installing Beta I made something that was on my To-Do list thanks to this new Strand feature with it's own Iray Shader. That easy to use without instructions! (Well other than the longer length - that's confusing lol.) And it looks great! Thanks DAZ-Team!
Shudder to think how long it would have taken to see how to do with LAMH or fibermesh to get the same quality mesh and shader look.
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L'Adair wrote:
"It is disappointing. But it's also understandable.
And from what I've seen, we can still do a lot with the new stranded hair. I'm looking forward to toying with it, once my current project is complete."
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+1 to these comments.
And I own ALOT of DAZ hair already, that will likely be not as great as the new dForce Strand hair products.
Would think if they made public this dForce hair techno that you'd see quite a few competing products on the other websites. If there was a royalty system (or anything with similar effect that DAZ makes an income off their creative work) that DAZ could setup for third parties riding on DAZ's free software, maybe then I could see a public release. Just a tough thing, cos DAZ is not a charity.
My Poor future bank account. But happy that DAZ, DazStudio software and PA's can be kept happily alive & nourished with a new product line. :D
Sad? No. Don't get carried away. One would simply use other SW, also there are free options, and models, many of which are also free, or do another hobby.
I personally want to thank all the people, who are being understanding about the situation. I know that its probably disappointing on some level, but its really nice to see so many people showing they understand that its a business, and decisions have to be made for the good of that business and all concerned. I also commend your ability to look at the bright side, and see everything that is still available to you. The hair is truly amazing, even without dForcing it.... and that is to say nothing of all the other awesome features DS has going for it.
We have DAZ to thank for that.
I think DAZ is really magnanimous and generous with its sharing, and keeping at least most things free for all. You won't find that in most software packages, or even companies. But at its core, it is a business... and it spends a lot of money developing these new features. Its only natural to make some things developer based only. Any business with good sense would do the same.