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I couldn't agree more. I was going to shy away from this part of the conversation, but I think I will lend my short two cents about it. We all know DAZ is in the business of making money. They will diversify if they feel there is a need but the bottom line is money. Earlier, I made a comment about this one being lackluster to me. She still is to a degree because...well...she a bit ordinary. Most of the Genesis 8 bases that I love have been a little different, especially the POCs ones.
However, at the end of the day, those of us who are POCs that wish for more representation in the medium we love know that the sad truth is...there's not many non POCs that like diversity, which may result in low sales for someone like Lee 8 or Darius 8 (I don't know how they did sales wise, but I'm going off a comment I read earlier that stated there were 38 Daz Originals, 32 of which were white, 3 black, 3 asian. Broken down like that, it pretty much speaks for itself).
I started doing this thing back in 2004 (15 years ago, whew!). You know how much diversity was out here for Victoria 3, Michael 3 etc...not a whole lot, that's for sure. With the Generation 4 stuff, there were some in-roads made, but still not a lot and as a POC myself, I simply did not want to make all my art with just one type of character. We don't live in a world like that anyway.
Fast forward to today, and while there is still no where near as many diverse characters as there are "white" characters...we've still come a long way baby. These characters should really be blueprints for our imagination anyway, a starting point toward something greater, not the measuring stick.
I agree that I would love to see more diverse and more fantasy type characters. I'm tired of the werewolf, vampire, zombie, witch, sorcerer, sorceress, superhero stuff (and I like all of those genres) but would love more diversity. However, while Daz continue to make strides in this direction, we really do have enough resources to make almost any character we want, so IMHO, we POCs (and others too) really have two choices...
1.) We continue to voice our opinion about the "lack of" diversity amongst the Genesis 8 and beyond line and hope DAZ listens...maybe...if the interest is there and the sales show it. Or...
2.) We can make use of all these wonderful resources and craft our own unique characters (which is probably what we should do anyway) and who knows...turn around and sell them (while still voicing our love for more diverse characters, but not just characters that look like us)?
Again, just my opinion. Take it with a grain of salt. :)
And still no South Asians or Native Americans.
For myself, I own every non-white DAZ female. I've generally picked up the Lee series, but I didn't get 8 because of the lackluster sale. The previous jigsaw sales we had in 2019 were really bad. When February came around I saw the sale terms and I just did not want to deal with it. This is a hobby for me, for crying out loud.
For most of 2018, you would get three pro bundles for ~$65 or so, give or take a bit, plus some extras of varying quality. For Bridgette, it's $98 for three pro bundles, so I'm paying another $30 or so for a cheap HD bundle and the free DAZ originals. Given the high price of most HD packs, it might be just barely worth it, but it is certainly a weaker sale than previous ones on its face.
I know I’ve got to stop,but I’m having fun making Bridget diverse... This is 100% Bridget with a few Asian characters and morphs. Does Bridget really add that much to the Asians? Not sure. But fun to see a freckled Asian in our melting pot world...
Don't forget option 3, both voice our opinions and do what we can ourselves in the interim, before we're heard.
And for me, it's not a matter of skin color only, but the unique outfits we're missing out on by not having more diversity in the core character bundles. Would love, for example, Indian characters with Indian outfits. Yes, some exist in the store, but I could always use more. We're probably never going to get the variety of, say, hanfu the way we have a lot more fantasy skimpwear, but one can dream. I'm working on learning more and doing more for myself, but it's going to take a heck of a long time for me to master everything I want to be good at--working on getting better at Marvelous Designer, but I try my hand at hair, and oh boy...nothing presentable is happening any time soon, ha.
Here she is at 50% and 100% weight, no expression. To me it makes her look older...
Thank you! Got me wanting to get her now!
I'm surprised that the conspracy theories never seem to run the other way, ie: DAZ suspected in advance that Lee 8 wasn't going to be popular, so they intentionally didn't give him any of the usual bonuses and incentives in order to maximize the profits made from the limited pool of customers who were going to buy him no matter what. (For that matter, what just struck me as rather different in the way that the G8 releases have been handled when compared to the G3 releases, was that with the G3s DAZ was constatnly talking about how well new figures kept breaking sales records. Not so much with the G8.
In any case, the pricing strategy on Lee 8's bundle certainly made me pass him up on the first go-round,.,. which turned out to be to my benefit as I picked up the Pro Bundle for considerably less only a month later as part of a different promotion.
The EJ Face Morphs & Details has a morph under Actor>Head>Face>Mouth called "EJFM Lip Gap Soft" that removes whistle holes with a minimum of secondary effects.
WONDERfull renders, Wonderland! Thanks for sharing. I, too, am miffed at the no-def HD, but I haven't had a chance to download yet.
Help Bridget get her gamer girl on for free:
ten or fifteen years of forums, then ten or twelve years on FB, and I don't realize what a brilliant addition a "like" button was until I have to go back into a forum again.
At least lots of forum software gives you tools to "+1" or "Thumbs up" or something. Here, all I can do is quote you and say "That was some very good and important and well-spoken sh*t there, man."
White girl with a tan! ;)
Nah, I like your theory. Even if you're a bit ahead of the curve. We're not that "melting pot" yet - You can still identify ethnicity from a skull. But it's getting there...! And it can't come too soon.
Now I want to make an old Chinese guy for Floyd.
Anyone know a good tutorial on making HD characters for core figures?
Certainly possible that that's why they did what they did with Lee 8. I don't know how Monique and Darius do in comparison with Mei Lin and Lee in each generation, but for the Pro 8 bundles, I recall M&D going almost the opposite way--too good a release deal to pass up. I am still kind of sad about buying Lee 8 on release, since it went for so cheap soon after but definitely beyond the 30-day refund window. Anyhow, Daz is the one with all the data and their analytical tools are probably a lot more sophisticated than what I could think up, but it just didn't feel that good waiting for a POC like Lee and to finally have him but to be so expensive.
Thanks @xyer0 I’m guessing the HD is not that strong because she’s supposed to be young. Usually the HD shines the most on older characters which is probably why they were included in the pro bundles for those.
For me it’s way more fun to just use the DazO characters as a base and play with mixing morphs to create something new. I don’t think I’ve ever used a DazO out of the box except maybe Edward and V7 but soon realized that V7 was way too recognizable lol, so you really HAVE to mix morphs if you want to do something original. I think people who are upset about lack of different ethnicities might be more upset about the CONCEPT of exclusion because it’s so easy to create different amazing ethnicities yourself with just a few spins of dials or mixing skins.There are soooo many great morph kits in the store to create with! This is supposed to be art, not just playing with dolls lol.
good catch (Though it invites the shot "Oooh! That's not s smart phone, that's an iphone!" ;))
I play plenty with my characters; they are generally very customized. I have never used a character out of the box--well, sometimes but not without at least some tweaks.
Concept and representation is only one part it. Pro bundles come with other things, like outfits and hair. We weren't going to get hanfus and samurai hair with a white male bundle.
Tasha 8 might be considered white, but she's clearly Hispanic or mixed. Charlotte and Gia can easily be counted outside of the white total. I think Daz would rather not needlessly define a character's ethnicity in order to avoid issues. For instance, if Tasha 8 had some Spanish or Latin themed outfits, then she might be pigeonholed and/or someone would be butthurt that a stereotype was broached. So, Tasha, Gia, and Charlotte pass rather than having to be the representatives of an entire ethnicity.
Well, yes, I see what you mean, but I'm not really comfortable with the 'girl' label as a somewhat older woman gamer, but that's mostly just a personal pet peeve, I guess
I live in LA and grew up in NYC, both cities, big melting pots. So many people of mixed ethnicities and it’s wonderful. I don’t mean for this to be taken in the wrong way, but I just adopted a cat from a shelter and it’s a beautiful mix of a Maine Coon and who knows what else, and I think that’s the future of humans, new exotic beautiful mixed ethnicities!
BTW, I have a blonde blue eyed friend who married an Asian man and they don’t have kids but I bet they’d look amazing! In DS, we can create all sorts of fascinating ethnicities that may or may not yet exist, and that again, adds to the creativity...
There are lots of cultures around the world that can be represented in an appropriate way; there is so much untapped potential. And I think it could attract new markets and users (and then PA's from that culture who will create more diverse offerings), and that would be nice.
THANK YOU for submitting this. I am actually somewhat appalled at the CHAOS in the library! I thought at a bare minimum Quality Control should be catching stuff like this - from the PA FIRST, DAZ second. I'm not even complaining about old stuff that predates the current library structures, but new stuff that shows up in the craziest places, or with typos in the folder names. There are a surprising amount that 'make it through'.
WOW! Everything you'll ever need! Thanks for the link!
I concur. But I rely upon Daz Core characters and their HD morphs from which to build in order to overcome the blank sameness of the Genesis 3/8 Base. Only a relative few PAs make characters that are sufficiently distinct enough from the Base (for my needs). I need for each of my characters to look DIFFERENT from each other, not related.
Victoria and Michael 7 were so cute-iful, that they made a nice starting point which I would later need to dial out a bit. But Victoria and Michael 8 were too gender dysphoric to provide the same thing for this generation, and it threw me (and some character-making PAs) off for awhile. So, I've had to wait for Genesis 8 Core to mature (get enough diversity) so that morph dial twisting isn't the only basis of my characters' differences from each other.
I've found that the more morph dialing I do, the more custom expressions I have to do (because store-bought expressions often fail to emote enough---right up to the point in the dial where they turn into toons or distort---there' no sweet spot). I'm glad to do this for my protagonist, antagonist, and love interest, but I don't want to have to do it for supporting character actors as well. I recognise that my needs are the tiny minority position, but I'm always glad to get regular-looking girls like Tasha and Bridget and seasoned gents like Christian and Vladimir so everyone isn't instantly identifiable as Daz.
The PA who made that has been creating content for at least 17 years (according to the oldest product in their store), so I seriously doubt they submitted the product like that - in that file location. I doubt it's the PA who put it there. Sometimes when the submission team adds products they move things or mislabeled files -Mistakes happen. I'm sure they probably have a really large workload and have to deal with a lot of files and products every day. Hopefully they will be able to put it where it belongs soon. :)
I know, I know, I've just been needing to get that off my chest for a long while now though. I feel better now. :)
Meanwhile, on Planet Bridget...
Just taking her for a first spin. No complaints from me!
I lived in Singapore for 13 years, and all of the white people were married to Asians. Their children? They could go to any nation in Central Asia or South America---where these mixtures took place hundreds or thousands of years ago---and be taken for locals.
If she was East Indian or Native American, I would have snapped her up in a second, even at being a female (I'd rather get more male figures). I got enough pretty white girls.
Laurie
Now that is a good find Xyer0, think that covers just about every gaming system a streamer or serious gamer could possibly have.
YEAH, bay-bee!
Taryn in the bundle is a gorgeous Asian!