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suggestions for Genesis 9

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  • wolf359wolf359 Posts: 3,767
    edited January 2019

    I could absoltely be wrong, but I think most users would not, 
    and that as long as tools like Unreal Engine exist and are 
    cheap to free, the best thing DAZ can do is try to ensure their 
    characters and objects import into and are easily used in 
    Unreal, and advertise that effect on their product pages.

    I think you are quite correct.
    IMHO the core technology of  the Genesis as figures for still image rendering
    has reached an evolutionary dead end.sad

    People can croon in the forums about "improved joints"
    or some gimmicky face bone manipulation widget etc.


    However all of the really interesting innovations in the 3D character
    world are happening in the areas of realtime rendering & animation.
    and that has to happen in the core application(Daz studio) not in the base figures.

    The video game industry had revenues of  $137 billion in 2018
    https://venturebeat.com/2018/04/30/newzoo-global-games-expected-to-hit-180-1-billion-in-revenues-2021/

    Three times that of Hollywood that managed $43 Billion.

    The most popular AAA games have one thing in common.
    Exciting stylized Characters in motion.

    Daz has Morph3D trying to become major content resource for the 
    Still developing "VR market" it seems.
    https://www.morph3d.com/

    And Reallusion has their latest releases with direct focus on Unreal &Unity.
    Time will tell who has made the correct strategic decision.

    At any rate it seems obvious where the Growth markets are.

    I Personaly doubt there is much growth left to be found in "updated"
    genitalia in yet another genesis for still renders in brute force path tracers.
     

    Post edited by wolf359 on
  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,714
    Oso3D said:
    nicstt said:

    I'm thinking that suggestions now are likely too late; this is considering previous release patterns.

    If so, we can lay the groundwork for G10. ;)

     

    Good point; and good idea. :D

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 17,929
    DigitalSteam said:
    wolf359 said:
     

     

    I have to wonder if The majority of Daz studio users would ever use the updated HumanIK animation tools.

    Also we would need an updated  native spline graph editor and dope sheet to make full use of a true human IK system.

    The optional add-ons from "gofigure are "useable" however they are rather primitive compared to what we see in other programs like Maya or Lightwave. 


    Even with the "gofigure" add-ons I still need the help of third party scripts from Mcasual to perform task like Cycling keys  or reducing keys on motion captured Data to make them easily editable.

    So Daz would have to consider the cost of developing an internal Graph editor & Dope sheet in terms of how much it would contribute to increasing store content sales


    Also I have to wonder ifCharacter animators would flock over to Daz studio if it had a proper human IK Control system because as nice as the G3/9 figures look ,at some point you have to render your animations.

    3Dlight is getting less an less material/content support in favor of IRaycool
     
    We are having quite the sobering Discussion over at the Reallusion forums now that IRay has come to Iclone.
      while it is certainly possible to render animations in IRay
    (With top end NVIDIA hardware)     Most animators  there agree it is not the most desireable particulary for dense, complex scenes.

    Finally Daz studio has Little  to no support for the importing  of  Non poser/Genesis Figure rigs,

    Not every animator is fixated on the DAZ genesis line of Character rigs
    Many want to use the animation tools of a program for there own custom character rigs without any licensing concerns
    hence the popularity of solutions like Autodesk MAYA ,Motionbuilder, Ikinema and Iclone pro Pipeline.

    I could absoltely be wrong, but I think most users would not, and that as long as tools like Unreal Engine exist and are cheap to free, the best thing DAZ can do is try to ensure their characters and objects import into and are easily used in Unreal, and advertise that effect on their product pages. 

    And Unity too. What DAZ could to is work on a n exchange pipeline with those two game engines particulary getting the iRay materials exported out correctly as PBS materials.  It actually already works quite well already though as FBX though.

  • Daywalker DesignsDaywalker Designs Posts: 3,586
    wolf359 said:

    I Personaly doubt there is much growth left to be found in "updated"
    genitalia in yet another genesis for still renders in brute force path tracers.
     

    Agreed, which is why I find it amusing that people keep asking for improvements that DAZ clearly is not interested in working on.
  • FlortaleFlortale Posts: 611

    My advice for Genesis 9, make the female as hot as possible. It's easy to make a sexy & beautiful face ugly, but very hard to make an ugly face beautiful & sexy.

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,560

    "

    Daywalker Designs said:
    Serene Night said:

    An update for the gens would be nice. We're still using Genesis 3 gens.

     

     

    The more this gets mentioned, the farther down the priority list it goes...

    I doubt it can get lower on the priority list than it presently is. But we shall see. Maybe we shall see G3M gens for Generation 9 as well. 

  • JET2003JET2003 Posts: 55
    edited January 2019

    My suggestion is to improve Genesis figure's hand and foot bones to create subtle but more realistic poses.

    Below are the images I've sent DAZ.

    Because of the lack of these bones, the hand-foot posture of current Genesis figures is quite limited. 

    Moreover, what I'd noticed is the fact that those bone structures in hand and foot area are not so different from Michael 2 that was a DAZ product of almost two decades ago.

    Definitely need improvement.

     

    Also I am not happy about arm-shoulder joint of Genesis figures, but, this is a bit strange to say, I can't be sure what is wrong and how it should be improved.

    My eyes are saying it's wrong. It often gives me the sense of "heebe-geebees" (good grief).  I am trying to figure out what is the problem though... 

     

     

     

     

    Post edited by JET2003 on
  • VisuimagVisuimag Posts: 551
    JET2003 said:

    My suggestion is to improve Genesis figure's hand and foot bones to create subtle but more realistic poses.

    Below are the images I've sent DAZ.

    Because of the lack of these bones, the hand-foot posture of current Genesis figures is quite limited. 

    Moreover, what I'd noticed is the fact that those bone structures in hand and foot area are not so different from Michael 2 that was a DAZ product of almost two decades ago.

    Definitely need improvement.

     

    Also I am not happy about arm-shoulder joint of Genesis figures, but, this is a bit strange to say, I can't be sure what is wrong and how it should be improved.

    My eyes are saying it's wrong. It often gives me the sense of "heebe-geebees" (good grief).  I am trying to figure out what is the problem though... 

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Those are fantastic suggestions (particularly the toes, which I feel are the most lacking out of anything ~ though Genesis 8 added extra bones to the tips of the toes, which helped tremendously over Genesis 3 in my eyes).

  • jestmartjestmart Posts: 4,449

    Genesis 8 has the carpal bones in the hands they just can't be selected from the viewport.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 97,064
    liplin901 said:

    My advice for Genesis 9, make the female as hot as possible. It's easy to make a sexy & beautiful face ugly, but very hard to make an ugly face beautiful & sexy.

    I'm not sure about this assertion - any extreme is harder to counter than going from a more neutral form to an extreme. Of course it does depend on what you mean by "hot", not a term with a universally accepted archetype.

  • Noah LGPNoah LGP Posts: 2,557
    edited January 2019

    ...

    Post edited by Noah LGP on
  • MasterstrokeMasterstroke Posts: 1,806
    liplin901 said:

    My advice for Genesis 9, make the female as hot as possible. It's easy to make a sexy & beautiful face ugly, but very hard to make an ugly face beautiful & sexy.

    frown

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,714
    liplin901 said:

    My advice for Genesis 9, make the female as hot as possible. It's easy to make a sexy & beautiful face ugly, but very hard to make an ugly face beautiful & sexy.

    It is impossible to please everyone.

    I'm guessing that the majority of customer at least find G8F reasonably attractive; although, many might ask, which character in particular are you talking about?

  • wolf359wolf359 Posts: 3,767
    edited January 2019

    the majority of customer at least find G8F reasonably
     attractive; although, many might ask, which character in particular
    are you talking about?

     


    Why bother asking??
    we all know how this subject typically devolves.smiley

    I have observed  that it is not a particulary worthwhile endeavour
    to try to Debate Modern human Males out of their subjective views on 
    what  Appeals to their sexual/romantic fetishes.

    These Fake 3D people  from Daz & elsewhere can be used to fufill
    the fantasies of some people, thus keats come to mind.

    "But I being poor have only my dreams
    I spread my dreams beneath your feet
    Tread softly for you tread upon my dreams"

    Post edited by wolf359 on
  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,714
    edited January 2019
    wolf359 said:

    the majority of customer at least find G8F reasonably
     attractive; although, many might ask, which character in particular
    are you talking about?

     


    Why bother asking??
    we all know how this subject typically devolves.smiley

    I have observed  that it is not a particulary worthwhile endeavour
    to try to Debate Modern human Males out of their subjective views on 
    what  Appeals to their sexual/romantic fetishes.

    These Fake 3D people  from Daz & elsewhere can be used to fufill
    the fantasies of some people, thus keats come to mind.

    "But I being poor have only my dreams
    I spread my dreams beneath your feet
    Tread softly for you tread upon my dreams"

    Indeed.

    ... But I find it always useful to remind folks about said subjectivity, even if only subtlely.

    Further, they may point out a character I'm unaware of, or didn't appreciate properly the first time round.

    Post edited by nicstt on
  • Siciliano1969Siciliano1969 Posts: 433
    JET2003 said:

    My suggestion is to improve Genesis figure's hand and foot bones to create subtle but more realistic poses.

    Below are the images I've sent DAZ.

    Because of the lack of these bones, the hand-foot posture of current Genesis figures is quite limited. 

    Moreover, what I'd noticed is the fact that those bone structures in hand and foot area are not so different from Michael 2 that was a DAZ product of almost two decades ago.

    Definitely need improvement.

     

    Also I am not happy about arm-shoulder joint of Genesis figures, but, this is a bit strange to say, I can't be sure what is wrong and how it should be improved.

    My eyes are saying it's wrong. It often gives me the sense of "heebe-geebees" (good grief).  I am trying to figure out what is the problem though... 

     

     

     

     

    Great post totally agree!

  • mrposermrposer Posts: 1,128

    Please just make the minimal requirements for Gen. 9/DAZ Studio 5 above my computer specs .... so I can get off this DAZ addiction for a couple of years until I can afford a new computer.

  • miladyderyni_173d399f47miladyderyni_173d399f47 Posts: 1,485

    How about way fewer base models, and a lot more characters for a handful of base models? Like pre-Genesis 8. That's one of the 2 main reasons I have not moved to G8.

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,142
    miladyderyni_173d399f47 said:

    How about way fewer base models, and a lot more characters for a handful of base models? Like pre-Genesis 8. That's one of the 2 main reasons I have not moved to G8.

    There are only two base models: Genesis 8 female and Genesis 8 male and every DO character is just a morph of those. So, technically they're already doing what you just asked for ;).

    Laurie

  • davesodaveso Posts: 6,452

    i think you all need to wait until we digest G8 ... maybe until 2021. yes, that's it .. 1-9-2021

  • Fixme12Fixme12 Posts: 589
    wolf359 said:

    I could absoltely be wrong, but I think most users would not, 
    and that as long as tools like Unreal Engine exist and are 
    cheap to free, the best thing DAZ can do is try to ensure their 
    characters and objects import into and are easily used in 
    Unreal, and advertise that effect on their product pages.

    I think you are quite correct.
    IMHO the core technology of  the Genesis as figures for still image rendering
    has reached an evolutionary dead end.sad

    People can croon in the forums about "improved joints"
    or some gimmicky face bone manipulation widget etc.


    However all of the really interesting innovations in the 3D character
    world are happening in the areas of realtime rendering & animation.
    and that has to happen in the core application(Daz studio) not in the base figures.

    The video game industry had revenues of  $137 billion in 2018
    https://venturebeat.com/2018/04/30/newzoo-global-games-expected-to-hit-180-1-billion-in-revenues-2021/

    Three times that of Hollywood that managed $43 Billion.

    The most popular AAA games have one thing in common.
    Exciting stylized Characters in motion.

    Daz has Morph3D trying to become major content resource for the 
    Still developing "VR market" it seems.
    https://www.morph3d.com/

    And Reallusion has their latest releases with direct focus on Unreal &Unity.
    Time will tell who has made the correct strategic decision.

    At any rate it seems obvious where the Growth markets are.

    I Personaly doubt there is much growth left to be found in "updated"
    genitalia in yet another genesis for still renders in brute force path tracers.
     

    complete right on this.

    the days of flat 2d renders are over in times of realtime rendering with unity and unreal.
    Why would people buy in, in another level up gen figure? whatever the name of figure is called? why buy same kind of morphs, clothes over again? one by one people stop buy into the new stuff and the income goes down.
    'm waiting of changes since 2011, it's all changes to slow, that i've lost most of my interest in "3D" or just hanging around here and watch to a dy'ing poser world.
    Some big strategy changes needed and that's with changes in the main software i'll guess and not done with the same other content over and over again.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 97,064
    Fixme12 said:
    wolf359 said:

    I could absoltely be wrong, but I think most users would not, 
    and that as long as tools like Unreal Engine exist and are 
    cheap to free, the best thing DAZ can do is try to ensure their 
    characters and objects import into and are easily used in 
    Unreal, and advertise that effect on their product pages.

    I think you are quite correct.
    IMHO the core technology of  the Genesis as figures for still image rendering
    has reached an evolutionary dead end.sad

    People can croon in the forums about "improved joints"
    or some gimmicky face bone manipulation widget etc.


    However all of the really interesting innovations in the 3D character
    world are happening in the areas of realtime rendering & animation.
    and that has to happen in the core application(Daz studio) not in the base figures.

    The video game industry had revenues of  $137 billion in 2018
    https://venturebeat.com/2018/04/30/newzoo-global-games-expected-to-hit-180-1-billion-in-revenues-2021/

    Three times that of Hollywood that managed $43 Billion.

    The most popular AAA games have one thing in common.
    Exciting stylized Characters in motion.

    Daz has Morph3D trying to become major content resource for the 
    Still developing "VR market" it seems.
    https://www.morph3d.com/

    And Reallusion has their latest releases with direct focus on Unreal &Unity.
    Time will tell who has made the correct strategic decision.

    At any rate it seems obvious where the Growth markets are.

    I Personaly doubt there is much growth left to be found in "updated"
    genitalia in yet another genesis for still renders in brute force path tracers.
     

    complete right on this.

    the days of flat 2d renders are over in times of realtime rendering with unity and unreal.
    Why would people buy in, in another level up gen figure? whatever the name of figure is called? why buy same kind of morphs, clothes over again? one by one people stop buy into the new stuff and the income goes down.
    'm waiting of changes since 2011, it's all changes to slow, that i've lost most of my interest in "3D" or just hanging around here and watch to a dy'ing poser world.
    Some big strategy changes needed and that's with changes in the main software i'll guess and not done with the same other content over and over again.

    Good idea, perhaps Daz could do something like developing a physics engine/architecture, maybe starting it off with support for dynamic clothing?

  • Fixme12Fixme12 Posts: 589
    edited January 2019
    Richard Haseltine said:
    Fixme12 said:
    wolf359 said:

    I could absoltely be wrong, but I think most users would not, 
    and that as long as tools like Unreal Engine exist and are 
    cheap to free, the best thing DAZ can do is try to ensure their 
    characters and objects import into and are easily used in 
    Unreal, and advertise that effect on their product pages.

    I think you are quite correct.
    IMHO the core technology of  the Genesis as figures for still image rendering
    has reached an evolutionary dead end.sad

    People can croon in the forums about "improved joints"
    or some gimmicky face bone manipulation widget etc.


    However all of the really interesting innovations in the 3D character
    world are happening in the areas of realtime rendering & animation.
    and that has to happen in the core application(Daz studio) not in the base figures.

    The video game industry had revenues of  $137 billion in 2018
    https://venturebeat.com/2018/04/30/newzoo-global-games-expected-to-hit-180-1-billion-in-revenues-2021/

    Three times that of Hollywood that managed $43 Billion.

    The most popular AAA games have one thing in common.
    Exciting stylized Characters in motion.

    Daz has Morph3D trying to become major content resource for the 
    Still developing "VR market" it seems.
    https://www.morph3d.com/

    And Reallusion has their latest releases with direct focus on Unreal &Unity.
    Time will tell who has made the correct strategic decision.

    At any rate it seems obvious where the Growth markets are.

    I Personaly doubt there is much growth left to be found in "updated"
    genitalia in yet another genesis for still renders in brute force path tracers.
     

    complete right on this.

    the days of flat 2d renders are over in times of realtime rendering with unity and unreal.
    Why would people buy in, in another level up gen figure? whatever the name of figure is called? why buy same kind of morphs, clothes over again? one by one people stop buy into the new stuff and the income goes down.
    'm waiting of changes since 2011, it's all changes to slow, that i've lost most of my interest in "3D" or just hanging around here and watch to a dy'ing poser world.
    Some big strategy changes needed and that's with changes in the main software i'll guess and not done with the same other content over and over again.

    Good idea, perhaps Daz could do something like developing a physics engine/architecture, maybe starting it off with support for dynamic clothing?

    Why would you develop from the ground up if Nvidia Physics X is made opensource? Or you would like to have a closed platform?
    We can laugh all these tech away and stay with the old, doesn't that sounds like dy'ing system? (re-buy the morphs, skirts, clothes, skins...) How many people would keep doing that?
    There will be a time when perfect is just perfect enough.

    Without accept new tech (like realtime render platforms, animation, gaming...) ,after all without changes it doesn't look to well in poser world, to bad :c(
    After all we have techno music :c) and we're all happy...

    Post edited by Fixme12 on
  • bluejauntebluejaunte Posts: 1,861

    Genesis 8 is nowhere near an evolutionary end yet. How about a muscle system for more realistic anatomy when posed. Soft body dynamics interacting with gravity, like breasts that hang and wobble properly, perhaps even fat that flows realistically on top of the muscles. Realistic skin deformations on top including minute detail like veins etc. A nice rig with proper IK/FK for faster posing. Better eyes, better skin shading, continue advancements with facial expressions. There's potential for dozens more Genesis figures.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 97,064
    Fixme12 said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    Fixme12 said:
    wolf359 said:

    I could absoltely be wrong, but I think most users would not, 
    and that as long as tools like Unreal Engine exist and are 
    cheap to free, the best thing DAZ can do is try to ensure their 
    characters and objects import into and are easily used in 
    Unreal, and advertise that effect on their product pages.

    I think you are quite correct.
    IMHO the core technology of  the Genesis as figures for still image rendering
    has reached an evolutionary dead end.sad

    People can croon in the forums about "improved joints"
    or some gimmicky face bone manipulation widget etc.


    However all of the really interesting innovations in the 3D character
    world are happening in the areas of realtime rendering & animation.
    and that has to happen in the core application(Daz studio) not in the base figures.

    The video game industry had revenues of  $137 billion in 2018
    https://venturebeat.com/2018/04/30/newzoo-global-games-expected-to-hit-180-1-billion-in-revenues-2021/

    Three times that of Hollywood that managed $43 Billion.

    The most popular AAA games have one thing in common.
    Exciting stylized Characters in motion.

    Daz has Morph3D trying to become major content resource for the 
    Still developing "VR market" it seems.
    https://www.morph3d.com/

    And Reallusion has their latest releases with direct focus on Unreal &Unity.
    Time will tell who has made the correct strategic decision.

    At any rate it seems obvious where the Growth markets are.

    I Personaly doubt there is much growth left to be found in "updated"
    genitalia in yet another genesis for still renders in brute force path tracers.
     

    complete right on this.

    the days of flat 2d renders are over in times of realtime rendering with unity and unreal.
    Why would people buy in, in another level up gen figure? whatever the name of figure is called? why buy same kind of morphs, clothes over again? one by one people stop buy into the new stuff and the income goes down.
    'm waiting of changes since 2011, it's all changes to slow, that i've lost most of my interest in "3D" or just hanging around here and watch to a dy'ing poser world.
    Some big strategy changes needed and that's with changes in the main software i'll guess and not done with the same other content over and over again.

    Good idea, perhaps Daz could do something like developing a physics engine/architecture, maybe starting it off with support for dynamic clothing?

    Why would you develop from the ground up if Nvidia Physics X is made opensource? Or you would like to have a closed platform?
    We can laugh all these tech away and stay with the old, doesn't that sounds like dy'ing system? (re-buy the morphs, skirts, clothes, skins...) How many people would keep doing that?
    There will be a time when perfect is just perfect enough.

    Without accept new tech (like realtime render platforms, animation, gaming...) ,after all without changes it doesn't look to well in poser world, to bad :c(
    After all we have techno music :c) and we're all happy...

    So you want another feature locked to a particular brand of hardware? That's even assuming that PhysX was open source at the time, and that it meets the requirements of Daz. In any event, it certainly isn't true that Daz has been resting ion its laurels - it may not have added the features you want (though dForce will, I think, militate in favour of more animation support) but each version of 4.x has added substantial new features; now we just wait to see what 4.11 will bring.

  • wolf359wolf359 Posts: 3,767
    bluejaunte said:

    Genesis 8 is nowhere near an evolutionary end yet. How about a muscle system for more realistic anatomy when posed. Soft body dynamics interacting with gravity, like breasts that hang and wobble properly, perhaps even fat that flows realistically on top of the muscles. Realistic skin deformations on top including minute detail like veins etc. A nice rig with proper IK/FK for faster posing. Better eyes, better skin shading, continue advancements with facial expressions. There's potential for dozens more Genesis figures.

    Again you are describing core application features not genesis features. Dynamics systems like dforce were added to daz studio Not to genesis itself.
  • bluejauntebluejaunte Posts: 1,861
    wolf359 said:
    bluejaunte said:

    Genesis 8 is nowhere near an evolutionary end yet. How about a muscle system for more realistic anatomy when posed. Soft body dynamics interacting with gravity, like breasts that hang and wobble properly, perhaps even fat that flows realistically on top of the muscles. Realistic skin deformations on top including minute detail like veins etc. A nice rig with proper IK/FK for faster posing. Better eyes, better skin shading, continue advancements with facial expressions. There's potential for dozens more Genesis figures.

     

    Again you are describing core application features not genesis features. Dynamics systems like dforce were added to daz studio Not to genesis itself.

    Genesis would absolutely have to support this stuff, even if Daz Studio would also need to provide the underlying technology.

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,714
    edited January 2019
    Fixme12 said:
    wolf359 said:

    I could absoltely be wrong, but I think most users would not, 
    and that as long as tools like Unreal Engine exist and are 
    cheap to free, the best thing DAZ can do is try to ensure their 
    characters and objects import into and are easily used in 
    Unreal, and advertise that effect on their product pages.

    I think you are quite correct.
    IMHO the core technology of  the Genesis as figures for still image rendering
    has reached an evolutionary dead end.sad

    People can croon in the forums about "improved joints"
    or some gimmicky face bone manipulation widget etc.


    However all of the really interesting innovations in the 3D character
    world are happening in the areas of realtime rendering & animation.
    and that has to happen in the core application(Daz studio) not in the base figures.

    The video game industry had revenues of  $137 billion in 2018
    https://venturebeat.com/2018/04/30/newzoo-global-games-expected-to-hit-180-1-billion-in-revenues-2021/

    Three times that of Hollywood that managed $43 Billion.

    The most popular AAA games have one thing in common.
    Exciting stylized Characters in motion.

    Daz has Morph3D trying to become major content resource for the 
    Still developing "VR market" it seems.
    https://www.morph3d.com/

    And Reallusion has their latest releases with direct focus on Unreal &Unity.
    Time will tell who has made the correct strategic decision.

    At any rate it seems obvious where the Growth markets are.

    I Personaly doubt there is much growth left to be found in "updated"
    genitalia in yet another genesis for still renders in brute force path tracers.
     

    complete right on this.

    the days of flat 2d renders are over in times of realtime rendering with unity and unreal.
    Why would people buy in, in another level up gen figure? whatever the name of figure is called? why buy same kind of morphs, clothes over again? one by one people stop buy into the new stuff and the income goes down.
    'm waiting of changes since 2011, it's all changes to slow, that i've lost most of my interest in "3D" or just hanging around here and watch to a dy'ing poser world.
    Some big strategy changes needed and that's with changes in the main software i'll guess and not done with the same other content over and over again.

    Not true.

    They still don't look like what I want, for that it takes a little time.

    Eevee in Blender looks like it will be the closest I've seen, but still not quite there.

    Richard Haseltine said:
    Fixme12 said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    Fixme12 said:
    wolf359 said:

    I could absoltely be wrong, but I think most users would not, 
    and that as long as tools like Unreal Engine exist and are 
    cheap to free, the best thing DAZ can do is try to ensure their 
    characters and objects import into and are easily used in 
    Unreal, and advertise that effect on their product pages.

    I think you are quite correct.
    IMHO the core technology of  the Genesis as figures for still image rendering
    has reached an evolutionary dead end.sad

    People can croon in the forums about "improved joints"
    or some gimmicky face bone manipulation widget etc.


    However all of the really interesting innovations in the 3D character
    world are happening in the areas of realtime rendering & animation.
    and that has to happen in the core application(Daz studio) not in the base figures.

    The video game industry had revenues of  $137 billion in 2018
    https://venturebeat.com/2018/04/30/newzoo-global-games-expected-to-hit-180-1-billion-in-revenues-2021/

    Three times that of Hollywood that managed $43 Billion.

    The most popular AAA games have one thing in common.
    Exciting stylized Characters in motion.

    Daz has Morph3D trying to become major content resource for the 
    Still developing "VR market" it seems.
    https://www.morph3d.com/

    And Reallusion has their latest releases with direct focus on Unreal &Unity.
    Time will tell who has made the correct strategic decision.

    At any rate it seems obvious where the Growth markets are.

    I Personaly doubt there is much growth left to be found in "updated"
    genitalia in yet another genesis for still renders in brute force path tracers.
     

    complete right on this.

    the days of flat 2d renders are over in times of realtime rendering with unity and unreal.
    Why would people buy in, in another level up gen figure? whatever the name of figure is called? why buy same kind of morphs, clothes over again? one by one people stop buy into the new stuff and the income goes down.
    'm waiting of changes since 2011, it's all changes to slow, that i've lost most of my interest in "3D" or just hanging around here and watch to a dy'ing poser world.
    Some big strategy changes needed and that's with changes in the main software i'll guess and not done with the same other content over and over again.

    Good idea, perhaps Daz could do something like developing a physics engine/architecture, maybe starting it off with support for dynamic clothing?

    Why would you develop from the ground up if Nvidia Physics X is made opensource? Or you would like to have a closed platform?
    We can laugh all these tech away and stay with the old, doesn't that sounds like dy'ing system? (re-buy the morphs, skirts, clothes, skins...) How many people would keep doing that?
    There will be a time when perfect is just perfect enough.

    Without accept new tech (like realtime render platforms, animation, gaming...) ,after all without changes it doesn't look to well in poser world, to bad :c(
    After all we have techno music :c) and we're all happy...

    So you want another feature locked to a particular brand of hardware? That's even assuming that PhysX was open source at the time, and that it meets the requirements of Daz. In any event, it certainly isn't true that Daz has been resting ion its laurels - it may not have added the features you want (though dForce will, I think, militate in favour of more animation support) but each version of 4.x has added substantial new features; now we just wait to see what 4.11 will bring.

    The one we have is one too many; as good as it is, there are options out there that offer more, well options.

    Post edited by nicstt on
  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 17,929
    bluejaunte said:
    wolf359 said:
    bluejaunte said:

    Genesis 8 is nowhere near an evolutionary end yet. How about a muscle system for more realistic anatomy when posed. Soft body dynamics interacting with gravity, like breasts that hang and wobble properly, perhaps even fat that flows realistically on top of the muscles. Realistic skin deformations on top including minute detail like veins etc. A nice rig with proper IK/FK for faster posing. Better eyes, better skin shading, continue advancements with facial expressions. There's potential for dozens more Genesis figures.

     

    Again you are describing core application features not genesis features. Dynamics systems like dforce were added to daz studio Not to genesis itself.

    Genesis would absolutely have to support this stuff, even if Daz Studio would also need to provide the underlying technology.

    Not really. I can import any old FBX model and create a DAZ Studio shape primitive and use dForce on both of those models. Genesis not needed.

  • wolf359wolf359 Posts: 3,767

    Not really. I can import any old FBX model and create a DAZ Studio shape
    primitive and use dForce on both of those models. 
    Genesis not needed.

    Correct Nonesuch!!!
    When I import G8 into Iclone pro ,it suddenly has Maya Human IK hand and foot contact solving.
    That is because Iclone itself has this feature.

    However that same genesis 8 ,in Iclone,  now has no JCMs or HD morphs
    That is because Daz studio itself has this feature.

     

    Soft body dynamics interacting with gravity, 
    like breasts that hang and wobble properly,

    With the jiggle deformer in C4D I can paint a weight map with attenuated edges and 
    make any part of a mesh Jiggle like fat or jello or rubber  as ,I did years ago ,even on this old legacy poser figure.

     

     

    People who are always asking for things like this need to understand
    that these features have long existed in the major 3DCC programs
    for nearly two decades.

    IMHO for  Genesis 9 ,and beyond, to offer any major improvements beyond
     superficial cosmetics (new fingers & toes etc)

    There needs to be major upgrades to the Core tech of Daz Studio proper.


    The one we have is one too many; as good as it is, there are options 
    out there that offer more, well options.

    To be  Completely fair to Daz inc. those other options out there are already accessable via the many
    industry standard export options that Daz studio offers FREE.

    Someone who prefers to render Genesis models in Maya ,Lightwave or C4D
     using Vray ,Octane, Arnold Redshift etc.
     can do so at no addtion Charge beyond the extremely affordable paid
    AniMate2/MDD export option I currently use for rendering in Maxon C4D.

    Unlike Reallusion whos native render engine is rubbish
    yet charges a $$premuim$$$ to get content out of Iclone.

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