RIP Men Content
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I really want Lee 8. I -need- a drop-dead handsome Korean/Japanese male figure. I have several lovely Asian female 8 characters, but no male. The gen 8 males in general have been less than thrilling for me. Among the few that there are, they tend to look alike, and don't have that beauty "wow" that the females do.
Lee 8, please! Give him a big bundle plus add-ons release, too.
Sorry to be blunt, but how would you know that, exactly? Daz never released any data about what their customers are spending, and unless you do order management or sales analytics for them then it's just your assumption, backed by no factual data at all....
I’m curious if anyone’s got the bounty huntress outfit for the new character how the pants look on a guy. They look like they might work with a different top but it depends on if the belt bling distorts.
Times DO change. People get bored of one thing and turn to another. Males might be more popular now than they used to be. Ethnics are more popular now than they used to be. People don't want pretty white girls so much anymore. They want to diversify a bit. Daz has offered some great stuff in this generation that I greatly appreciate for sure. But maybe they need to go a little farther. I mean, we're still missing one race and we're already more than half way thru a generation's lifetime.
Laurie
When you look at something like https://www.daz3d.com/alt-style-glasses-for-genesis-8-males-and-females. ; Couldn't they have included male promo images, as well? Not many people are going to spend money on something they can't see.
I didn’t even notice a male fit for those.
Changing the preferred base to Genesis 8 Male does avert Autofit, but the pants have issues in the crotch when you do it this way. There's not a ton of reason to avoid autofits here, I think. It's just pants.
So... Autofit the Pants to avoid crotch problems. (It's a little on the "skinny jeans" kind of look, but it's not too terrible.)
Change preferred base identifier to G8M for the belt & boots. I think I could have done better with the boots, but whatevs.
Here's the really extremely bad and fast render on Edward 8 (a little soft focus because the render is so bad).
Not bad! thanks fo rthe render. Reminds me a bit of HArdcore M4
No, you also get groin fit problems using autofit regardless if it's male or female, pants or dresses or skirts and even on tunics for many outfits, but not all of them. I just fit the Royal Guardsman for Michael 5 on Jonah for Ollie 8 and there is an autofit groin tear problem on the tunic.
I know how you feel. I recently reimagined my two female leads from Genesis 3 to 8 because there were some G8F skins that would raise their apparent quality. But I've left the male lead as Genesis 3 because the non-mature G3M skins' quality is not yet challenged by G8M. Add to that the relative lack of male output from Raiya, Saiyaness, Javier Michael, & gypsyangel in this generation, and G8M has a lot less handsome DNA available.
What if Lee 8 ends up marginally attractive, like Lee 7? If you want drop-dead handsome and your G3M stable is up to date, I would suggest starting with models from the G3M catalogues of the forementioned vendors and dialing in the features you need. Or you can wait until whenever Lee is released, but I haven't even read of a Lee 8 morph being sighted.
Excellent constable outfit Grinch!!
I have to say that I don't really understand why most PAs are so determined to make full outfits. There's been tons of threads about the lack of male content, and if you want to answer to that cry, and are still hesitant to take the risk, why don't you try it out and just make for example pants. I bet good quality jeans would sell like hotcakes. Instead of taking a month to create a full outfit, take a smaller risk, and just make one piece of clothing. If it doesn't sell that well, well at least you tried, but you didn't go bankrupt doing so. I like to kitbash a lot, so at least I'd be more than willing to buy my male wardrobe in pieces, rather than in big outfit bundles. So instead of selling your new male content for $20 as a bundle, sell your new pants for $10. If your pants sell well, then you can make a shirt that fits those pants.
As far as I can see, one of the biggest problems with male content is the lower quality compared to female clothing. No finger pointing, but I think everybody already knows this. I assume this is because most PAs are not willing to take their time, because they fear the product won't sell that well anyway. That just makes it a vicious cycle. People won't buy the product, because it's not good enough quality, and PAs see again that male content won't sell. I for one would never buy any sub-par items, just because it's for males, to support male content creation. So make smaller products, and the risk is smaller also, and you can take that extra few days to truly finish the product.
And if you are making clothing items for males, pretty please include G3 version also if it's possible. There's lots of people who did not jump the G8 train, and who currently has no new clothing items to buy, so they are desperate ( me included ). We have tons of good quality G3 female content, so at least I'm not even interested of most of the G8 female items, but for males G3 is still lacking really good quality male clothing. So if you are making a product for smaller audience, please include all of them.
Did that on the jeans. Jeans and shirt, no under t-shirt, no shoes. Quality detailed textures still take time, even on two items. Did you ever look at how many small details there are on a pair of jeans? G3 version would have added more time, wouldn;t have increased the payout by that much. Catch 22 all around. Item sold OK, worth doing on my end, not hotcakes.
Nevermind that we don't have access to the sales figures that would prove the assertion true or false, the fact remains that @Novica outspends a lot of us, forum members or not, and then showcases the products on her review threads. And I believe, that's to say it is my opinion as someone who has done marketing online for over two decades, that the 92% of customers who do not frequent the forums are not producing 92% of the profits.
It is a valid point that people who frequent the forums are more likely to see a product featured, along with renders, and decide to buy something they previously thought they wouldn't want or use. While we may never see "hard numbers" on this, one only has to read a thread like those for Arabella 7 or Ollie 8 to see how effectively the forums can sway opinions and result in more sales; More sales by forum readers, as the 92% who do not frequent the forums never see those threads.
It is also a valid point that people who frequent the forums are more likely to find a solution to issues they are having with a product and be less likely to return it, or come to the forums and post about problems they are having and ask for help. The forum community is generally very helpful.
I know I spent quite a bit of money when I first got started with DS, but it wasn't until I started spending time on the foums that I really started to learn and use the program. I'd guesstimate I've spent at least double what I would have if I hadn't frequented the forums. (Though only a small part of that can be directly contributed to Novica and her review thread! lol)
Sorry, neither customers or PA's can assert knowledge of who buys more ( forum regulars or customers who rarely if ever post to the forums here ) because we DO NOT have the raw data on sales that would show which group spends more ( by percentage ).
The only people who have this data are Daz3D owners and employees.
@DestinysGarder I checked your jeans product ( I assume you meant this one: https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-my-guy-jeans-and-shirt-for-genesis-8-male ), and the shirt looks really good. I agree that jeans do have nice textures, but... I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but they still have those same problems that most male pants have; they look weird in the crotch area and don't really "fall" correctly. Basically what I'm trying to say is, I think the zipper is too high, so they look like womens jeans that man is wearing. When men have to pee, they usually do it while standing, and just open the zipper. With a zipper that high, I bet it would be really uncomfortable experience to get one's...ehm, equipment out, and even if the poor guy would endure that, then aiming down to toilet would be a gamble. I hope it wasnt' your bathroom where the poor guy tries to get relief
If you look at the picture, I think you can understand what I mean.
Now would that kind of product sell to G3M audience is only speculation, so neither of us can really be sure. You are probably right, but I think I would have bought it because I liked the shirt, but now we never really know.
I know who made these jeans, and very few PAs compare to him, but considering that these were released back in 2013, and now at 2018 there's very few items with same quality still tells something. If he would release G8/3 version of these, I bet it would sell like hotcakes....
Seems that real life 2018 doesn't like men to take their "business" in standing, a good deal of these "top jeans for males" have the high sitting zipper
: https://www.menshealth.com/style/a19546067/25-best-jeans-for-men/
So much this.
Hiro 5 was the closest thing to MMD Kaito
@BeeMKay Ouch, those last jeans do look that men might have some problems with them. I stand corrected
Now looking at that first product image closer, I think I need to apologize
Edited my response after seeing BeeMKay's latest images
And edited some more: Looking at the picture now, these could also be loose jeans, where the crotch area is just hanging low, and that creates the effect that zipper is too high
And thank you for making it. Love the set. =-) I have used it 3-4 time already. Very useful.
@Serene Night, glad you find the set useful. Cheers! Full credit to Aave Nainen who made the thing. I just colored it.
@Mendoman, hey no worries. You also have to take into account that sometimes design choices have to be made in the modelling to get it to end use functioning level. We are not actually working with stretchy cloth here, but polygons that have to fit around a specific model. They are meant to be loose fit jeans and not skinny jeans so that they drape with dForce. I also purposly didn't go nuts with wrinkle detail because that would be the same as baked in highlights on hair and eyes. I didn't want it to look "off" if it draped in a different place than where the wrinkles were painted.
HUH! Well there is no list of the supported shapes either. It's been many folks experience that when a proper shape is not in place the glasses (or other head gear types of stuff) can get quite strange looking. Be nice if they updated their sales page showing the supported shapes and yea a male or two promo. That's one of the reasons I didn't bother with this product... says one thing but nada showing what male faces they fit. OR the list of fits!
Actually you have no idea if Novica outspends anyone here except perhaps yourself, unless you have access to what the rest of us spend, somehow I doubt that you do.
As for threads and renders that help to sell items the oposite can also be said, I can't tell you how many products I have passed up because of renders here in the forums; sometimes it doesn't help the item at all. Novica's thread is in the art forum which is not as frequently visited as the commons and also I feel frequented by only a particular base of customers. And just because someone says a rendeer has chaned their opinion doesn't mean they will actually buy the item.
All we can do as customers is speculate nothing we know is fact so it shouldn't really be presented as such.
Hey, things are getting too personal here. This is about men's content, not criticism of individuals.
There have been plenty of threads where people have shared what they’ve spent, since the Daz Deals addon makes it so easy to find out. I think it’s fair to say that if Novica says she spends more than most people, she’s probably right. While we don’t _know_ what people who don’t post spend, if she spends more than most people who do post (and people post truly horrifying values) it is a safe bet that she also spends more than the people who don’t post, because frankly if the forum spending was on the casual end instead of the whale end, Daz would have a bigger footprint in the 3D world.
No sorry but we really don't have any real idea of people's spending habits, supposedly only a small fraction of customers use the forums so there's that factor to take into consideration, besides which I don't feel just because you spend a lot means you know any more than anyone else about Daz's business.
Daz does not like small products because their overhead is never below a certain amount with testing and promotion. They accepted a pants-only product from me once in the G1 era, but I seriously doubt they would now; or if they did, it would have to have 4 pairs of pants in it. Ultimately you're going to end up including the same amount of content as a full outfit to get Daz3d to go for it most of the time now.
When I sold exclusively at Rendo (for much less money), my business model revolved around selling one clothing piece at a time (a shirt, a pair of pants, etc.) because the big sets didn't pay enough to justify time spent. They changed their pricing requirements so I couldn't sell a shirt for $5 any more and torpedoed that some time ago, so it doesn't work there either.
Out of curiosity, Scorpio, how much do you think people here spend? I have a suspicion you vastly underestimate. As to whether spending a lot means you know a lot about how a business operates, well, the two don't go hand in hand, but any long-time observer can certainly extrapolate intelligently.
It really is hard to win with men's content, especially since the 'interested in sexy male models' contingent is rarely also 'interested in a large men's wardrobe'. That said, I wouldn't hate 'four pairs of pants' or anything. I think I'd prefer buying a wardrobe like that rather than a full modern-style outfit. Although a stronger mix-and-match top set would be nice-- I recently struggled to assemble a costume that involved a tie and a button down shirt that wasn't tucked in. I had every variation but and I eventually had to settle on something with a pullover sweater integrated.
Speaking of flexibility, does anybody know if the OOT https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-8-male-mega-wardrobe has undressing morphs?
Can we drop this discussion of how much people spend?
I'm not sure how the reasonable point that if the problem with male content is that it doesn't sell as well as female (other things being equal) then as suggested a fix is to try to recruit more buyers turned into a debate over spending habits. It wasn't questioning or slighting the support of existing customers, nor was it suggesting that a fix is for existing customers to spend more than they already are. It was simply saying that more people buying male content will mean more copies of a particular item sold, hopefully enabling PAs to dedicate more time to making male content.
I have that one, and the pants don't go to the ankles but there are plenty of fly unzip morphs and tugs. The shirts tug around as well.