Transferring Morphs from Genesis to G2M/G2F and from G2M/G2F to Genesis (Now with Clones!)

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  • TheKDTheKD Posts: 2,593
    edited December 1969

    Not much of use to add right now, except to say thanks to those that are way better at daz studio than I am, for sharing the methods. I am thinking the best solution might just be getting the G2 rigging into the G1 figure. At least for now, until G2 gets a lot more universal variety in her, such as teen and childify morphs. If everything for G2 ends up working as great out of the box in carrara as what has been released so far, V6 M6 and K6 will be my go to figures in the future for sure.

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited June 2013

    TheKD said:
    Not much of use to add right now, except to say thanks to those that are way better at daz studio than I am, for sharing the methods. I am thinking the best solution might just be getting the G2 rigging into the G1 figure. At least for now, until G2 gets a lot more universal variety in her, such as teen and childify morphs. If everything for G2 ends up working as great out of the box in carrara as what has been released so far, V6 M6 and K6 will be my go to figures in the future for sure.

    Personally I don't plan to buy any G2F/G2M stuff and I will return what I've bought once testing is over and I got my Genesis rerigged with base G2F rigging and weights (I have it now but autofits are slightly off due to ERC freeze problems).
    But I hope those tutorials will help people to save on cost of buying morphpacks all over again in case if they think that G2F is worth anything.
    Post edited by Kattey on
  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526
    edited December 1969

    I may hope to say one more about transfer utility. (maybe many user of Transfer utlity well known)

    even though transfer all morph from gen1 to gen2,, some or many hide morph can not be transferred
    without you tweaking type .

    So that, If you hope transfer one product character morphs, you may find some moprh are not transfered.
    about this case,, you need to change the Type of morph to modifier, shape by parameter setting.

    I usually ,, first carefully check all morph from read me about the product.
    then check which morph is really need to transfer or not.
    because,, about morph which work with rig rotation ,or other morph (JCM)
    the link perfectly have lost when transfer morphs.

    it seems terrible work to perfectly set up each ERC again as same as bfore,, after tranfer utility.

    but if you transfer all morphs, you can challenge one by one ,, when you have full time^^;
    but I simply hope new genF2 rig and weightmap work better, so need not so many MCM and JCM
    for pozing about each character,, and even though I all transfer ,, I do not think they work as I expected,
    because gen2Fen has alrready more JCM than genesis, if I apply transfered JCM,, it may cause another
    problem.. so at first point, I simply transfer morphs,, and not set ERC untill I check with many pozing.
    then If find problem,, first I cehck orignal with same poze,, and which morph are used to correct the defomation.
    and may set ERC in transfered figure.

  • ben98120000ben98120000 Posts: 469
    edited June 2013

    Children...close your eyes :D

    Picture 1: G2F Beautiful Butterfly character after morph transfer, morphing and posing
    Picture 2: G2F Beautiful Butterfly character after morph transfer, morphing, saving as support asset - figure/prop asset, reloading it and posing

    4.jpg
    500 x 500 - 42K
    3.jpg
    500 x 500 - 41K
    Post edited by ben98120000 on
  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited June 2013

    For me it isn't about rig as much as about fitting my clothes and M4/M5 maps to Genesis. I could stay with original Genesis rig and just transfer morphs. G2F has only V4 option and I highly doubt that if she get any others, they'd be any way free.
    But I believe that transferring rig and (to bigger degree, ERC links) back to Genesis is possible.

    Currently I'm wondering if anybody knows the way how to make default form of Genesis of that of morph. Not just dial morph to 100% and save like that, but that the different (comparable shape) would be default Genesis and original shape as a morph, providing that new shape is same mesh.

    Post edited by Kattey on
  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited December 1969

    heh, ben98120000, it is rather heavy set butterfly :)

  • ben98120000ben98120000 Posts: 469
    edited December 1969

    Kattey said:
    heh, ben98120000, it is rather heavy set butterfly :)

    hehe, yeah, I dont have any extreme morps for genesis so I piled up couple of universal morphs on top of each other. For scientific purpose of course. :D
  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 30,871
    edited December 1969

    my updated virtual Wendy thanks to this
    http://youtu.be/gdYq30oT7uQ

  • LocusSolusLocusSolus Posts: 59
    edited December 1969

    Children...close your eyes :D

    Picture 1: G2F Beautiful Butterfly character after morph transfer, morphing and posing
    Picture 2: G2F Beautiful Butterfly character after morph transfer, morphing, saving as support asset - figure/prop asset, reloading it and posing

    Can't understand that after so many years such insults to 3D art are still tolerated.

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 30,871
    edited December 1969

    I will definately buy some of it when my current financial commitments are over, the morphs do look great
    but I will want better Carrara compatibility before I spend to much.
    I think Katey meant she only bought the products before she realized cloning was possible, not that she used any info from them, by testing, she meant her clone not the products which may prove superiour and worth keeping as well.

  • Luv LeeLuv Lee Posts: 220
    edited December 1969

    Kattey said:
    As currently I have no desire to buy G2F Morphs and with Genesis 2 offering such small functionality, comparatively to my morph collection of two years, I started to wonder if I can transfer Genesis morphs to Genesis 2 Female in order to give her some morphability.

    Turned to be I can and although the result might be not 100% precise (I have no Gen-X utility to check that process on Gen 4-to-Genesis variation) and drastic morphs will need Bone Adjustment and ERC freeze it worked pretty well for basic human unisex morphs like Pear and Stocky.

    Update: there are four more tutorials below that allow to transfer any morph (not only unisex) from Genesis to G2F but they are somewhat more complex.

    Post 7: unlocking OriginalGenesis mesh
    Post 8: transfer of any morphs and how to make bone adjustments and ERC Freeze in G2F
    Pose 35: making of simple G2F autofit clone for Genesis
    Post 55: reverse-fitting MallenLane's V4 autofit to Genesis to get some better shoes and other things.

    For this I need Genesis 2Female Essential (free), DS 4.5 (free and probably the process will work in DS 4.6 too), My Genesis (i.e. Genesis 1, with those many morphs I have). I use a temporary intermediate figure to transfer morphs so I won't screw anything up in figures.

    1. Load G2F, set it to Base Resolution and 0 Subdivision. Export as Obj (only Ignore Invisible Nodes are checked, everything else is unchecked). I used Hexagon scale (1 unit = 1 cm), on 100% scale. Scale of import and export should be consistent from now on, but I suspect it can be any scale.
    I exported it as G2F Base LR.obj

    2. Load My Genesis into DS 4.5. Dial Basic Female Morph 100% and several adjustment morphs to get the shape as close to G2F as you can (I used only Arms Length around -0.0026, Hands Propagation Scale L/R around -20% but it can be done better with hips and breast morphs). I did nothing with pose, leaving hands curled as they are.

    My Genesis is then set to Base Resolution and 0 Subdivision.

    Delete G2F figure.

    3. Load G2F Base LR.obj with a proper scale.

    4. Open Transfer Utility. Select My Genesis as a Source and Shape as 'Current' (it is important). Select G2F Base LR.obj as a target and Shape as 'Current' (don't know if it is important or not)

    a) Projection Template None
    b) Show Option: Leave everything checked as it is (don't know if it is important), but select Morph Targets.
    c) Check Source Morphs (it is important) and uncheck Projection Template Morphs (don't know if it is important).
    I also used Use Near Vertices about 500% but again, don't know if it is important.
    d) Select Reverse Source Shape from Target (it is important)

    Uncheck Fit to Source Figure for your comfort. Don't add smoothing modifier yet.
    Click accept.

    5. Wait until it is done. It might be a lengthy process, depending on how many morphs My Genesis has.

    6. After it is done you should have a a lot of morphs in your newly made G2F Base LR figure. They are usually messy, with no proper Shape categories, so I used search selector to find Stocky morph and dial it 100%

    Delete My Genesis from the scene or make it invisible so the only visible figure on your scene is G2F Base LR. Make sure it is Base Resolution and Subdivision 0, with no smoothing modifier.

    7. Export Stocky shape as obj, on the same scale as it was comfortable for you before. I got G2F Stocky LR.obj

    8. Load G2F back on scene.

    9. Open Morph Loader Pro (in my DarkSide layout it and Morph Loader Advanced have the same icon, MLP located below MLA). Select G2F Stocky LR.obj as a loaded morph. The scale of import should be consistent with a scale of export before.
    Name the morph as something nice, say G1 Stocky.
    Under Property Group right click and Create new property group. Select Actor and in a line under type Actor/Gen 1 Universal/Real World. Later you can just select it as a already existing Property.
    Make sure that Reverse Deformation is checked as 'yes'.
    Leave everything else like it is.
    Press ok.

    10. Now you have a morph :) You can make it more organized with Property Editor but I'm yet to figure how to create groups in it.
    Again, for drastic morphs you'll need to follow Bone Adjustment and ERC freeze tutorial (starting from step 9).

    11. Repeat steps 6 to 10 for any morph you wish to transfer.

    12. When you happy with organizing, Save new morphs as Morph assets and save modified G2F with all new fancy groups as Support Assets/Save Modified Assets (or as a separate figure through Figure/Prop Assets)

    Some notes.
    I have no DS 4.6 installed so I might not catch the subtle rigging differences between G2F in DS 4.5 and 4.6. Can anybody with DS 4.6 try that process and say if anything is messed up? I'm also not sure about fingers. They seem to curl and pose ok for me in DS 4.5 but I don't know how they supposed to be posed in DS 4.6.

    With more additional steps and loops it might be possible to eliminate of Genesis 1 full body morphs influence on G2F face altogether in case if there is any.

    For subtler morphs, like Finesse Details you might want to set morph value for export in step 6 as 150% of more to boost up the details a a bit, depending on what you want.

    Expressions, pose controls and everything that affects inner mouth might not work properly.

    This method works best for gender neutral morphs. For Gender specific morphs (like Victoria 4) the process will have to be modified a bit because otherwise you'd get a boobs too huge and waist too slim. I'm trying to figure the process but if anybody has any ideas, you are welcome to share. Male morphs, obviously, don't work as well at all for now but I think it is possible to make Genesis 2 Base morph because there is a Genesis autofit clone for G2F already, as I think.

    Pictured is Genesis 2 Female with Finesse Details 100% (boosted as 150% from Genesis 1) and G1 Pear 75%.

    Wow--that si amazing--thank you! Thank you!!!!

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited December 1969

    You are welcome, Luv Lee, I hope it will work for you :)

    RAMWolff, how did you get a G2F genesis shape with straight fingers?

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,679
    edited December 1969

    I had partially explained that in a previous post. I used ZBrush.

    I imported in Gene-02, saved that as an OBJ and then imported in the Genesis 01 morph that's hidden that you uncovered for us and saved THAT out as an OBJ from ZB.

    I then imported in the Gene-02 default obj and saved that as a morph target.

    Then I imported in the Gene-01 morph and what you see is that it appears to overwrite the Gene-02 figure that was in the view port but in fact Gene-02 is now a morph target.

    I then masked the Gene-01 figure from the head down to the ankles and leave out the wrists and hands.

    I then BLUR the mask 5 times to make a smooth transition when I use the Morph Brush.

    Then I use the Morph brush and brush in the Gene-02 hands and feet.

    With the mask blurred the transition of it keeps things very smooth and nice from the wrists into the forearm and from the ankles into the shin area.

    Saved that out as a new OBJ and imported it into DS as a new morph and saved it out.

    I asked if it was redistributable but no one answered me. It's just a text file but not sure if DAZ would be cool with it.

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited December 1969

    @ kitakoredaz and ben98120000 Thank you for help and patience. I have figured out to get it to work for me. I use the genesis clone and not the morph for the target. Then i save as figure/prop and load that. I adjust rigging and things look nice!

    Happy camper. going to test out more shapes now.

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited June 2013

    Ok So I got when you save a new figure asset it doesn't seem that auto fit works. Is that they case for anyone else? Genesis 2 content seems to work, but the autofit templates for V4 never show up.

    It lets me pick what figure item was designed for, but not what type of item it is. Is there a way to copy the autofit function to my custom figure?

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • Luv LeeLuv Lee Posts: 220
    edited December 1969

    RAMWolff said:
    I had partially explained that in a previous post. I used ZBrush.

    I imported in Gene-02, saved that as an OBJ and then imported in the Genesis 01 morph that's hidden that you uncovered for us and saved THAT out as an OBJ from ZB.

    I then imported in the Gene-02 default obj and saved that as a morph target.

    Then I imported in the Gene-01 morph and what you see is that it appears to overwrite the Gene-02 figure that was in the view port but in fact Gene-02 is now a morph target.

    I then masked the Gene-01 figure from the head down to the ankles and leave out the wrists and hands.

    I then BLUR the mask 5 times to make a smooth transition when I use the Morph Brush.

    Then I use the Morph brush and brush in the Gene-02 hands and feet.

    With the mask blurred the transition of it keeps things very smooth and nice from the wrists into the forearm and from the ankles into the shin area.

    Saved that out as a new OBJ and imported it into DS as a new morph and saved it out.

    I asked if it was redistributable but no one answered me. It's just a text file but not sure if DAZ would be cool with it.

    I am in awe of how you guys can come up with this--I am only so technical...thanks for coming up with these solutions...can you make the process into a usuable script? Sometimes DAZ will let you do that and sell it in the marketplace.

  • zigraphixzigraphix Posts: 2,813
    edited December 1969

    Kattey said:
    zigraphix said:
    Kattey, can you get the same facial expressions supported by G2F?

    Expressions that are morphs you can get just like other morphs. Transfer Utility doesn't transfer ERC and pose controls (which a lot of G2F expressions have) but I think it is still possible to re-import those expressions as morphs unless I or somebody else figure out how to do it properly. There should be a way.

    I asked because the face was supposed to be an area where different topology was used to enhance expressions, I think, so I'd be interested in seeing how the G2F expressions look on Genesis.

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited December 1969

    OK I've come up with a process that can work for me if I can figure out how to get the autofit clones to work for the custom saved Figure that has all the genesis 1 morphs. If anyone could help me figure out how to get that to work that would be great.

    I'm not sure if I need to find a way to make the shape a DSF (probably) and then maybe I could copy the templates from genesis 2 to this new DSF folder.

    Both Kattey's and Bens methods have advantages. Kattey's allows you to pick just the shapes you want and have them in your default genesis 2, autofit works fine for this.

    Bens gives you a different figure that has ALL the morphs but autofit doesn't work. At least not for me yet.

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited December 1969

    zigraphix said:
    Kattey said:
    zigraphix said:
    Kattey, can you get the same facial expressions supported by G2F?

    Expressions that are morphs you can get just like other morphs. Transfer Utility doesn't transfer ERC and pose controls (which a lot of G2F expressions have) but I think it is still possible to re-import those expressions as morphs unless I or somebody else figure out how to do it properly. There should be a way.

    I asked because the face was supposed to be an area where different topology was used to enhance expressions, I think, so I'd be interested in seeing how the G2F expressions look on Genesis.
    Which expression would you like to see? I can test on some defaults :)

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited December 1969

    RAMWolff said:
    I had partially explained that in a previous post. I used ZBrush.

    I imported in Gene-02, saved that as an OBJ and then imported in the Genesis 01 morph that's hidden that you uncovered for us and saved THAT out as an OBJ from ZB.
    Couple of questions:
    What are your export/import parameters in DS and ZBrush and how did you set them?
    My ZBrush doesn't seem to have a consistent export/import scale by some reason. GoZ works ok but import/export is flawed.

    Why did you have to remake feet, aren't they the same?
    Do new hands (on G2F Genesis shape with straight fingers) smaller than original Genesis hands?

    I asked if it was redistributable but no one answered me. It's just a text file but not sure if DAZ would be cool with it.


    I don't have an idea but it is RTEncodable, for sure.
  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited June 2013

    On reverse rigging fit of G2F to original Genesis.
    I currently have a figure that moves and bends like G2F but keeps Genesis original topology with all UVs and morphs (and it also temporary has G2F Body/Head morphs for testing purposes).
    The main problem is that on this Genesis G2F shape is now default. While it is fixable with morph+ERC refreeze back to original Genesis shape when needed, autofit still tries to fit things to original Genesis shape by default. This is why I need original Genesis morph with straight fingers to rerig it properly OR to know how to make autofit to accept new shape as default base.

    Post edited by Kattey on
  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited June 2013

    On expressions.
    I picked up G2F Pain expression, dialed 100%, and transferred it to (currently rerig) Genesis via obj export/import. Subdivision levels and algorithms are set to same, same shader, same material.
    Morph transfer is a bit like jpg compression, and there is a very slight loss in sharpness of the morph, but it just means that I could dial it 105% initially and import into Genesis as 100% to keep all details properly.

    InPain.jpg
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    Post edited by Kattey on
  • murgatroyd314murgatroyd314 Posts: 1,184
    edited December 1969

    OK I've come up with a process that can work for me if I can figure out how to get the autofit clones to work for the custom saved Figure that has all the genesis 1 morphs. If anyone could help me figure out how to get that to work that would be great.

    I'm not sure if I need to find a way to make the shape a DSF (probably) and then maybe I could copy the templates from genesis 2 to this new DSF folder.

    Both Kattey's and Bens methods have advantages. Kattey's allows you to pick just the shapes you want and have them in your default genesis 2, autofit works fine for this.

    Bens gives you a different figure that has ALL the morphs but autofit doesn't work. At least not for me yet.

    So far, I've only found a workaround. Just put an unmodified G2F in the scene, autofit to that, then transfer the clothes to the morph-filled figure.

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited June 2013

    OK I've come up with a process that can work for me if I can figure out how to get the autofit clones to work for the custom saved Figure that has all the genesis 1 morphs. If anyone could help me figure out how to get that to work that would be great.

    I'm not sure if I need to find a way to make the shape a DSF (probably) and then maybe I could copy the templates from genesis 2 to this new DSF folder.

    Both Kattey's and Bens methods have advantages. Kattey's allows you to pick just the shapes you want and have them in your default genesis 2, autofit works fine for this.

    Bens gives you a different figure that has ALL the morphs but autofit doesn't work. At least not for me yet.

    So far, I've only found a workaround. Just put an unmodified G2F in the scene, autofit to that, then transfer the clothes to the morph-filled figure.

    That is acceptable for the time being, and thanks for pointing that out. It's really straight forward and not sure why I didn't think of it myself.

    EDIT: BTW I did post my success here

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/24183/P60/#359398
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/24183/P60/#359416

    One more proof coming.

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,679
    edited December 1969

    Kattey said:
    RAMWolff said:
    I had partially explained that in a previous post. I used ZBrush.

    I imported in Gene-02, saved that as an OBJ and then imported in the Genesis 01 morph that's hidden that you uncovered for us and saved THAT out as an OBJ from ZB.
    Couple of questions:
    What are your export/import parameters in DS and ZBrush and how did you set them?
    My ZBrush doesn't seem to have a consistent export/import scale by some reason. GoZ works ok but import/export is flawed.

    Why did you have to remake feet, aren't they the same?
    Do new hands (on G2F Genesis shape with straight fingers) smaller than original Genesis hands?

    I asked if it was redistributable but no one answered me. It's just a text file but not sure if DAZ would be cool with it.


    I don't have an idea but it is RTEncodable, for sure.

    Hi Kattey,

    I use the Cinema 4D settings for export and import from ZBrush. It's the one setting that matches ZB's import and export the best.

    Feet, No, they are different in size, more extreme than I thought.

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited June 2013

    OK so here is my character Aoi, who has been transferred to genesis2 and wearing a new outfit. I have also successfully put V4 clothing on by autofitting to genesis2 first, and then moving over to my custom genesis 2 figure.

    Very rough render to prove a point, lots of quirks in settings and pose but I'm satisfied enough to take a break for now.

    aoi-test.jpg
    600 x 900 - 96K
    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited June 2013

    RAMWolff said:
    I use the Cinema 4D settings for export and import from ZBrush. It's the one setting that matches ZB's import and export the best.

    How do you set it in ZBrush? I know it is a nooby question but I can't find those options in my ZBrush 4r5.

    larsmidnatt, I"m glad to see it working for you :) A cute picture.

    Post edited by Kattey on
  • zigraphixzigraphix Posts: 2,813
    edited December 1969

    Kattey said:
    On expressions.
    I picked up G2F Pain expression, dialed 100%, and transferred it to (currently rerig) Genesis via obj export/import. Subdivision levels and algorithms are set to same, same shader, same material.
    Morph transfer is a bit like jpg compression, and there is a very slight loss in sharpness of the morph, but it just means that I could dial it 105% initially and import into Genesis as 100% to keep all details properly.

    Looks pretty darn good to me! Maybe a very happy expression would make another good test.

    There is also supposed to be denser mesh in the ears to make better elf ears and such, in case you want to test morphs of that sort.

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited June 2013

    zigraphix said:
    Kattey said:
    On expressions.
    I picked up G2F Pain expression, dialed 100%, and transferred it to (currently rerig) Genesis via obj export/import. Subdivision levels and algorithms are set to same, same shader, same material.
    Morph transfer is a bit like jpg compression, and there is a very slight loss in sharpness of the morph, but it just means that I could dial it 105% initially and import into Genesis as 100% to keep all details properly.

    Looks pretty darn good to me! Maybe a very happy expression would make another good test.


    Here you go: happy expression /I can't find Very Happy one, sorry -_-/

    There is also supposed to be denser mesh in the ears to make better elf ears and such, in case you want to test morphs of that sort.
    Here are Elf Long years on both, same High Resolution, same base subdivision level 1, same algorithm and edge extrapolation.
    Do I need to tell which one is where?

    About edge extrapolation I want to mention something: original Genesis loads in DS 4.6 with EE set to Sharp Edges and Corners, while G2F EE is set to just Sharp Edges. The difference seems to influence the appearance of transferred morphs slightly.

    I_got_ears.jpg
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    Smiling.jpg
    1029 x 928 - 221K
    Post edited by Kattey on
  • MallenLaneMallenLane Posts: 130
    edited June 2013

    The JPG analogy is pretty accurate; it loses some fidelity here and there. You can transfer from V4 using GenX to a mesh (Genesis) nearly a quarter of its resolution and it looks just like a smoother version of the same basic volume. That's the basic nature of low frequency detail vs high frequency. And it's extremely easy to spot low frequency changes, and it gets harder to spot high ones.

    There are a lot of considerations about modeling and you want a cage which achieves what you want, but doesn't go overboard. Because extra points? They equal extra use of resident memory (your RAM, not the hard-drive) it has to store extra values for every added vertice, for weight rigging, morphs, UVs, etc. So a balance has to be struck, between adding density, changing what's there, and being realistic. So while I could've crammed a ton of extra polygons in there, I'm mindful not to do so.

    Is every morph going to use every available bit of resolution there? No. A lot of them are made to be flexible, and useful in combination, because if all of them had hyper-detailing, and you tried to dial up said morph with another hyper-detailed body morph, then those details would begin to clash against each other; a war of higher frequency changes. Would you like me to try and make you an Elf ear you cant transfer well?

    Post edited by MallenLane on
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