Interactive License?

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Comments

  • mikekmikek Posts: 160
    edited November 2017

    So, while waiting to find out if Daz is going to adjust the options, it could be a fun and productive option to figure out just what games you COULD make on a $500 licensing budget.

     

    For a 3D game time traveling is the only one I could think of as one could rely on bundles and explain away why there are scifi, medieval, post apocalyptic or similar settings mixed together.  Beside that only very simple ones like the old escape games, Visual Novels with background 2D and chars 3D or similar but they pretty much all work better with 2D only.

    Post edited by mikek on
  • nmargie_d65db43582nmargie_d65db43582 Posts: 152
    edited November 2017

    So, while waiting to find out if Daz is going to adjust the options, it could be a fun and productive option to figure out just what games you COULD make on a $500 licensing budget.

    When you say 500, do you mean just for license total or lincense plus the items cost? I think the biggest issue witht he new licnese is the first time base cost; needing the genesis starter essentals pack for the generation you are using eats up your first 100. If you decided to forgo the main characters like Victoria and buy morph kits for 500 you could get

    500 - 100 (starter essentals) - 140 (35 * 4 for male and female body/head morphs) - 70 (35 * 2 for aging morphs male and female) = 190

    With that 190 you vould get 5 (35 * 5 = 175)  genesis characters

    or

    a gen male and female pro pack (50 * 2 = 100) the last 90 could be used to get any extra item you need. This option would give you 6 characters some cloths and hair along with extra stuff  

    Post edited by nmargie_d65db43582 on
  • BeeMKayBeeMKay Posts: 6,686

    https://www.daz3d.com/eula

    2.0 Academic Addendum

    The terms of this addendum 2.0 are in force only when the User has fully qualified as an academic or educational customer. User can request this qualification by contacting the DAZ sales team by submitting a help ticket.

    Once the User has been notified in writing by DAZ that he/she qualifies as an academic or educational customer, the terms of this addendum 2.0 apply to all DAZ Content the User has licensed via their online DAZ store account. DAZ Content can be identified in the online DAZ store using the following criteria:

    • The “Artist” field in the product page for the Content lists one of the Artists as: “DAZ Originals”

    The terms of this addendum 2.0 do not apply to PA Content.

    1. Use and re-use of DAZ Content for academic purposes. All terms of the General License apply with the following extensions:
       
      • A single licensed copy of the DAZ Content is required for each Academic Effort (educational project, classroom instruction, demonstration, etc.) regardless of the number of computer systems or users required to achieve the Academic Effort; however, at the end of each Academic Effort (project, classroom instruction, demonstration, etc.) the DAZ Content must be uninstalled from all computer systems used in conjunction with the Academic Effort. The DAZ Content may be re-used (re-installed) for a subsequent Academic Effort provided it was uninstalled from all systems used in the previous Academic Effort.
      • No commercial use of any kind can be made with the resulting work product from such Academic Efforts by any person or entity. All resulting work product must remain solely educational or academic and all copies of the work product, electronic or otherwise, must remain solely with the applicable academic institution.
  • This change has me considering asking for DAZ to refund my entire content library so I can just buy iClone ($1500 tops) and call it good, and not have to deal with this ridiculousness.

    I'm an Indie license holder. Not making any money from this yet, but I've bought a ton of content on sales, on understanding that if I started making $100k+ I could just upgrade to the Commercial license. This licensing change means that instead of that Commercial license costing me $800-2500 ish, I'd have to buy interactive licenses for all my content. Every item that I use in anything. So I just did a ballpark estimate and it would cost me $84,000 to buy interactive licenses for my content library under the new licensing. Granted some of that's in bundles, but now every small platinum club freebie they throw at you or $1/2 special they throw your way is another $50 if you want to use it in a game. It's still a massive increase in cost. In some cases, the license is now 100x (that's 10,000%) higher than what I paid for something. DAZ pretty much just killed any thoughts I had of using their products, since it means I can no longer be assured of consistency between media forms (i.e. 2D / 3D games + animations). 

    Love DAZ content. It's good, but it's not 84x the cost of iClone, or other options good. I bought into DAZ on the understanding that they were making content, and making it available affordably, with sane usage rights, but  they seem to be following in the footsteps of the like of Autodesk, Adobe, etc.. and catering exc;lusively to large studios / milking the small guys dry. This, for me is a 5,000-10,000% cost increase should I ever start making money off this.

    If they're unwilling to let me upgrade my license to commercial so that I don't have to worry about getting shafted down the road, I'll probably ask for a refund on ALL my content so I can just buy iClone (with a fair amount of money in the bank on top of it). If they they refuse both requests, I'll consider my legal options. I bought into the DAZ ecosystem with the specific intention of using DAZ original models as a resource for games (2D, and 3D,when I get to that stage), along with other projects. Now they've gone and switched things up without giving me the opportunity to agree or disagree to the changes before shoving them through. 

  • nmargie_d65db43582nmargie_d65db43582 Posts: 152
    edited November 2017

    dazamonium

    You do know that Iclone chargers an extra fee to use their items outside of Iclone right? 

    I suggest you contact Daz with your concern. Becasue to me it appears that there is only one license now. 

    I would also suggest that since section 3 of the EULA simple states "For any User who has purchased one or more Game Developer Licenses" and makes no difference between indie and pro Daz may have combined them

     

    Post edited by nmargie_d65db43582 on
  • pruggipruggi Posts: 151

    This change has me considering asking for DAZ to refund my entire content library so I can just buy iClone ($1500 tops) and call it good, and not have to deal with this ridiculousness.

    I'm an Indie license holder. Not making any money from this yet, but I've bought a ton of content on sales, on understanding that if I started making $100k+ I could just upgrade to the Commercial license. This licensing change means that instead of that Commercial license costing me $800-2500 ish, I'd have to buy interactive licenses for all my content. Every item that I use in anything. So I just did a ballpark estimate and it would cost me $84,000 to buy interactive licenses for my content library under the new licensing. Granted some of that's in bundles, but now every small platinum club freebie they throw at you or $1/2 special they throw your way is another $50 if you want to use it in a game. It's still a massive increase in cost. In some cases, the license is now 100x (that's 10,000%) higher than what I paid for something. DAZ pretty much just killed any thoughts I had of using their products, since it means I can no longer be assured of consistency between media forms (i.e. 2D / 3D games + animations). 

    Love DAZ content. It's good, but it's not 84x the cost of iClone, or other options good. I bought into DAZ on the understanding that they were making content, and making it available affordably, with sane usage rights, but  they seem to be following in the footsteps of the like of Autodesk, Adobe, etc.. and catering exc;lusively to large studios / milking the small guys dry. This, for me is a 5,000-10,000% cost increase should I ever start making money off this.

    If they're unwilling to let me upgrade my license to commercial so that I don't have to worry about getting shafted down the road, I'll probably ask for a refund on ALL my content so I can just buy iClone (with a fair amount of money in the bank on top of it). If they they refuse both requests, I'll consider my legal options. I bought into the DAZ ecosystem with the specific intention of using DAZ original models as a resource for games (2D, and 3D,when I get to that stage), along with other projects. Now they've gone and switched things up without giving me the opportunity to agree or disagree to the changes before shoving them through. 

    I'm with you on this dazamonium. I submitted a support ticket yesterday morning to ask this exact question - regarding the upgrade from indie to commercial, but have yet to hear a response (I'm sure they're flooded with support tickets).

    I also did an estimation based on my assets, and the licensing costs would be around 65,000$ for me to use all the assets I was using to integrate. I think a lot of people are forgetting that 100 assets does not mean 100 characters - this can be for a handful of characters with mix and match wardropes, texture varieties etc. I'm very nervous about this upgrade thing, since although one might claim that if you make over 100k, then you should be able to afford it... I say bollocks to that, since for that money you could hire a full-time professional to develop your characters from scratch.

  • A question from a complete noob about licences.

    If I download the game today, spend $100 on a couple of models and a few cloth bundles (owned not by daz, but other individuals), make the rendering, and finally use 2D images of the models in a game (to keep it simple let's say a card game or as a background image) or choose to monetize those renders in any other way, do I need to puchase a licence? Reading almost all posts in this thread I want to say "no", but I thought I'd ask, just to be safe and avoid trouble in the future. Thanks.

  • nitijjp said:

    Currently the bundle products have a single license with them but this also the case with the individual products in the bundle. There is nothing written about this in the EULA so most probably its another programming bug.

    Not a bug, for the simple reason that it makes no sense to make the buyer of a bundle pay the individual item licensing fee. The presence of the individual item licensing fee is for those buyers that don't want anything more than the single item from the bundle.

  • BeeMKayBeeMKay Posts: 6,686
    edited November 2017
    Narkon said:

    A question from a complete noob about licences.

    If I download the game today, spend $100 on a couple of models and a few cloth bundles (owned not by daz, but other individuals), make the rendering, and finally use 2D images of the models in a game (to keep it simple let's say a card game or as a background image) or choose to monetize those renders in any other way, do I need to puchase a licence? Reading almost all posts in this thread I want to say "no", but I thought I'd ask, just to be safe and avoid trouble in the future. Thanks.

    You're fine with anything 2D (print, images, videos, images on mugs, t-shirts, etc), and if you render sprites for a 3D game, you are also fine with your regular license. Of course, you can't distribute/sell a map layout render or (the skin map for example). You can make personal use 3D prints on your own printer or through companies like Gameprint. This is all covered by the standard license agreement.

    However, if you are in doubt with a particular project, it won't hurt to ask DAZ Customer support for clarification if it's covered by EULA.

    Post edited by BeeMKay on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 56,619
    edited November 2017

    This change has me considering asking for DAZ to refund my entire content library so I can just buy iClone ($1500 tops) and call it good, and not have to deal with this ridiculousness.

    I'm an Indie license holder. Not making any money from this yet, but I've bought a ton of content on sales, on understanding that if I started making $100k+ I could just upgrade to the Commercial license. This licensing change means that instead of that Commercial license costing me $800-2500 ish, I'd have to buy interactive licenses for all my content. Every item that I use in anything. So I just did a ballpark estimate and it would cost me $84,000 to buy interactive licenses for my content library under the new licensing. Granted some of that's in bundles, but now every small platinum club freebie they throw at you or $1/2 special they throw your way is another $50 if you want to use it in a game. It's still a massive increase in cost. In some cases, the license is now 100x (that's 10,000%) higher than what I paid for something. DAZ pretty much just killed any thoughts I had of using their products, since it means I can no longer be assured of consistency between media forms (i.e. 2D / 3D games + animations). 

    Love DAZ content. It's good, but it's not 84x the cost of iClone, or other options good. I bought into DAZ on the understanding that they were making content, and making it available affordably, with sane usage rights, but  they seem to be following in the footsteps of the like of Autodesk, Adobe, etc.. and catering exc;lusively to large studios / milking the small guys dry. This, for me is a 5,000-10,000% cost increase should I ever start making money off this.

    If they're unwilling to let me upgrade my license to commercial so that I don't have to worry about getting shafted down the road, I'll probably ask for a refund on ALL my content so I can just buy iClone (with a fair amount of money in the bank on top of it). If they they refuse both requests, I'll consider my legal options. I bought into the DAZ ecosystem with the specific intention of using DAZ original models as a resource for games (2D, and 3D,when I get to that stage), along with other projects. Now they've gone and switched things up without giving me the opportunity to agree or disagree to the changes before shoving them through. 

     

    pruggi said:

    This change has me considering asking for DAZ to refund my entire content library so I can just buy iClone ($1500 tops) and call it good, and not have to deal with this ridiculousness.

    I'm an Indie license holder. Not making any money from this yet, but I've bought a ton of content on sales, on understanding that if I started making $100k+ I could just upgrade to the Commercial license. This licensing change means that instead of that Commercial license costing me $800-2500 ish, I'd have to buy interactive licenses for all my content. Every item that I use in anything. So I just did a ballpark estimate and it would cost me $84,000 to buy interactive licenses for my content library under the new licensing. Granted some of that's in bundles, but now every small platinum club freebie they throw at you or $1/2 special they throw your way is another $50 if you want to use it in a game. It's still a massive increase in cost. In some cases, the license is now 100x (that's 10,000%) higher than what I paid for something. DAZ pretty much just killed any thoughts I had of using their products, since it means I can no longer be assured of consistency between media forms (i.e. 2D / 3D games + animations). 

    Love DAZ content. It's good, but it's not 84x the cost of iClone, or other options good. I bought into DAZ on the understanding that they were making content, and making it available affordably, with sane usage rights, but  they seem to be following in the footsteps of the like of Autodesk, Adobe, etc.. and catering exc;lusively to large studios / milking the small guys dry. This, for me is a 5,000-10,000% cost increase should I ever start making money off this.

    If they're unwilling to let me upgrade my license to commercial so that I don't have to worry about getting shafted down the road, I'll probably ask for a refund on ALL my content so I can just buy iClone (with a fair amount of money in the bank on top of it). If they they refuse both requests, I'll consider my legal options. I bought into the DAZ ecosystem with the specific intention of using DAZ original models as a resource for games (2D, and 3D,when I get to that stage), along with other projects. Now they've gone and switched things up without giving me the opportunity to agree or disagree to the changes before shoving them through. 

    I'm with you on this dazamonium. I submitted a support ticket yesterday morning to ask this exact question - regarding the upgrade from indie to commercial, but have yet to hear a response (I'm sure they're flooded with support tickets).

    I also did an estimation based on my assets, and the licensing costs would be around 65,000$ for me to use all the assets I was using to integrate. I think a lot of people are forgetting that 100 assets does not mean 100 characters - this can be for a handful of characters with mix and match wardropes, texture varieties etc. I'm very nervous about this upgrade thing, since although one might claim that if you make over 100k, then you should be able to afford it... I say bollocks to that, since for that money you could hire a full-time professional to develop your characters from scratch.

    It has always been my understanding that once you have a license you are good, if your income subsequently jumps to the Commercial isntead of the Indie league you don't need to buy the additional license. This was incorrect.

    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • ​Richard Haseltine

     

          May I ask how you came to that understanding? If that was the case it would explain why they make no difference between pro and indie in the new EULA

    To be honest I figured the combined them to avoid the cluster of issues of them and consuemrs trying to keep track of who has what license 

     

  • dreamfarmerdreamfarmer Posts: 2,127

    Yeah, I definitely think the best kind of game under the new license type is... what did you call it, an 'escape?' game? I dunno if Gone Home qualifies as that-- but puzzle games in general, where you have a smallish static environment, some props, and writing. Really, this whole thing makes me think about what sorts of games 3d is actually GOOD for, opposed to just 'an option' for. Exploration games (whether they have a puzzle, adventure, or FPS element), I guess? I keep being reminded of that old saw about necessity being the mother of invention... Being forced to be extra-creative because your budget has just been massively slashed. That's one thing hobbyist/indie devs CAN do, and the pro studios can't so much.

  • nmargie_d65db43582nmargie_d65db43582 Posts: 152
    edited November 2017

    Daz is making their licensing more in line with the standard. As mention before their prices even with license costs are competative with other companies like iClone.

    Sorry to be the one to tell you this but not all game devs will be leaving daz. How do I know this?

                   1. Alot of those game devs have indie licenses

                   2. Even for those who don't Daz price point is still in line with industry standards

    I will say this again. People should not become to dependent on buying every little prop or item they need. If you want to get into game dev you are going to have to learn how to make the stuff sooner or later

    Post edited by nmargie_d65db43582 on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 56,619
    edited November 2017

    ​Richard Haseltine

     

          May I ask how you came to that understanding? If that was the case it would explain why they make no difference between pro and indie in the new EULA

    To be honest I figured the combined them to avoid the cluster of issues of them and consuemrs trying to keep track of who has what license

    I'm pretty sure I asked, but that was several years ago so it's good to check. And I was wrong

    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • nmargie_d65db43582nmargie_d65db43582 Posts: 152
    edited November 2017

    I'm pretty sure I asked, but that was several years ago so it's good to check. And I was wrong.

    Cool I always wondered how they would enforce such a thing. Now I know Thanks

    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • BeeMKay said:

    https://www.daz3d.com/eula

    2.0 Academic Addendum

    The terms of this addendum 2.0 are in force only when the User has fully qualified as an academic or educational customer. User can request this qualification by contacting the DAZ sales team by submitting a help ticket.

    Once the User has been notified in writing by DAZ that he/she qualifies as an academic or educational customer, the terms of this addendum 2.0 apply to all DAZ Content the User has licensed via their online DAZ store account. DAZ Content can be identified in the online DAZ store using the following criteria:

    • The “Artist” field in the product page for the Content lists one of the Artists as: “DAZ Originals”

    The terms of this addendum 2.0 do not apply to PA Content.

    1. Use and re-use of DAZ Content for academic purposes. All terms of the General License apply with the following extensions:
       
      • A single licensed copy of the DAZ Content is required for each Academic Effort (educational project, classroom instruction, demonstration, etc.) regardless of the number of computer systems or users required to achieve the Academic Effort; however, at the end of each Academic Effort (project, classroom instruction, demonstration, etc.) the DAZ Content must be uninstalled from all computer systems used in conjunction with the Academic Effort. The DAZ Content may be re-used (re-installed) for a subsequent Academic Effort provided it was uninstalled from all systems used in the previous Academic Effort.
      • No commercial use of any kind can be made with the resulting work product from such Academic Efforts by any person or entity. All resulting work product must remain solely educational or academic and all copies of the work product, electronic or otherwise, must remain solely with the applicable academic institution.

    Yes, that was it. Thanks, BeeMKay!

  • dazamonium

    You do know that Iclone chargers an extra fee to use their items outside of Iclone right? 

    I suggest you contact Daz with your concern. Becasue to me it appears that there is only one license now. 

    I would also suggest that since section 3 of the EULA simple states "For any User who has purchased one or more Game Developer Licenses" and makes no difference between indie and pro Daz may have combined them

     

     

    Daz is making their licensing more in line with the standard. As mention before their prices even with license costs are competative with other companies like iClone.

    Sorry to be the one to tell you this but not all game devs will be leaving daz. How do I know this?

                   1. Alot of those game devs have indie licenses

                   2. Even for those who don't Daz price point is still in line with industry standards

    I will say this again. People should not become to dependent on buying every little prop or item they need. If you want to get into game dev you are going to have to learn how to make the stuff sooner or later

    https://www.reallusion.com/ContentStore/Royalty_Free/index.html

    Yes, export licenses cost more, but $1500 for their 100 head / essentials package with faceware and iclone, is substantially cheaper than spending ~$80,000 to be able to use my current content library freely and without silly amounts of spreadsheets to keep track of.

    Their standalone packs are on the order of a few hundred dollars WITH export licenses. Mass distribution licenses are free (with the export license); you just have to contact Reallusion to register it.

    And if you're comfortable making your own content, you can use MD and other modeling tools for. for clothes, props, buildings, etc.. Substance Painter or Quixel for Painting. And you're still way cheaper than spending tens of thousands for indivudal use licenses for DAZ content. For me, purchasing any DAZ content (and I've purchased a fair amount now on sales) was dependent on knowing I could use it fairly freely and affordably in games, animations etc.. and that I could inexpensively upgrade my Indie license if I needed to down the line.

    If that path towards eventual profitability is gone, I'll just get my library refunded and look elsewhere (iClone and/or other alternatives as necessary). DAZ is nice, but not $100,000 nice. Maybe I would feel differently were I born wealthy and had no concept of money or the cost of things.

  • WandererWanderer Posts: 906

    Okay, maybe I missed this, as there are 7 pages of comments already in this thread, but I need someone to help me understand before I agree to this EULA change. I reached out to the company, but the rep didn't explain the impact of this one particular section that has me concerned. I'm not as concerned about the 2D works stuff since I figure I can create animations and art using purely 2D files for certain game uses, but the 3D... that's if I use the model in a game engine that actually uses the model right? So what does this section of the new EULA mean for us:

    Three Dimensional Works. DAZ wishes to encourage the expansion of the catalog of Content available to its users. Accordingly, User may access, use, copy, and modify the Content to create one or more derived or additional three-dimensional works provided that: 

    • any such derived or additional three-dimensional works are designed to require or encourage the use of CRT Content available through the online DAZ store either by (i) requiring the use of such CRT Content to function, or (ii) allowing only limited function when not used in conjunction with CRT Content from the online DAZ store; and
    • upon receipt of a written request from DAZ, User immediately ceases any and all distribution of the art that User has created from the CRT Content, if DAZ has determined, in its sole discretion, that (i) such art is substantially similar to or is a clone of existing Content; or (ii) such derived or additional work fails to require the use of Content available through the online DAZ store.

     

    Can anyone explain what this means in practical use and language?

  • mikekmikek Posts: 160
    edited November 2017

    Yeah, I definitely think the best kind of game under the new license type is... what did you call it, an 'escape?' game? I dunno if Gone Home qualifies as that-- but puzzle games in general, where you have a smallish static environment, some props, and writing. Really, this whole thing makes me think about what sorts of games 3d is actually GOOD for, opposed to just 'an option' for. Exploration games (whether they have a puzzle, adventure, or FPS element), I guess? I keep being reminded of that old saw about necessity being the mother of invention...

    Yes gone home, stanley parable or some puzzle game like laser grid could work. Ideally anything where there aren't any characters as those will need clothes, hair, mesh, possible morphs and the clothes have to fit together. But without character models the incentive to use the daz store over a different one is far far lower. Alternatively something were there are only few characters in the same location for the whole game. Those also exist.

    Being forced to be extra-creative because your budget has just been massively slashed. That's one thing hobbyist/indie devs CAN do, and the pro studios can't so much.

    True but building your game idea around very limited content instead of thinking up the idea and then getting the content for it is usually a bad approach for game developement. In my case I have already a simpler fallback but that uses 2D.

    Post edited by mikek on
  • linvanchenelinvanchene Posts: 1,303
    edited November 2017

    I wanted to avoid time and energy consuming forum discussions and contacted support directly.

    I asked support to provide me a written confirmation of the Commercial Game Developers License for DAZ Originals that I purchased in 2015 that contains all the necessary details.

    The answer I received shows that they are either overwhelmed with tickets or do not fully understand the legal issue that was caused by deleting all Game Developer License store pages.

     

    What information was listed on the Game Developer License store pages?

    - DAZ Originals vs Published Artists

    There were licenses for DAZ Originals and for individual Published Artists.


    - Indie vs commercial
    Indie licenses were for Developers with Personal or Business income of LESS than $100,000.00 annually.
    Commercial licenses were for Developers with Personal or Business income of MORE than $100,000.00 annually.


    - Limited use vs life time license
    Licenses of DAZ3D published artists only offered a limited use for just one or a few projects.
    Licenses for the Vendor “DAZ Originals” however offered a personal life time license for all products released under that vendor name for the past and the future for an unlimited amount of projects.

     

    - - -

    What information is still available after the deletion of the product store pages?

    On the original order and paypal receipt you find

    - the entry "Commercial Game Developer License ​"

    - the SKU 1247

    - the price  $ 1750.00

    In the DAZ 3D product Library you find

    - just a description of the requirements of the commercial license. (Developers with Personal or Business income of MORE than $100,000.00 annually. All discounts are not applicable to this item.)

     

    Which information has completely vanished with the deletion of the Game Developer store pages?

    - It is nowhere mentioned anymore that the Commercial Game Developer License applies to products of the vendor  "DAZ Originals" (in my case)

    - It is nowhere mentioned anymore that the license is personal, life time and valid for an unlimited number of projects.

     

    Why do I need proper receipts for the Game Developer License?

    ​The game developer license is not just an internal document between the customer and DAZ3D.

    The license is also a required document to show to 3rd party business partners.

    3rd parties need to be able to verify that all the necessary licenses were acquired.

    In the past it was possible to show a paypal receipt listing the price and the SKU and then provide a link to the EULA and the store pages.

    With the store pages now gone all proof of the details of the acquired license has now vanished.

     

    - - -

    The answer I received from support

    In short, support did not even directly address my request for a written confirmation that lists all the necessary details of the Game Developer License.

    Instead they provided a standard reply explaining the new licensing.

    For now I can give support the benefit of the doubt that they were simply overwhelmed by the amount of requests they received.

     

    My suggestion:

    Provide each customer that acquired a Game Developers License in the past a new receipt that contains all the required information:

    Example:

    - Product Name with SKU : Commercial Game Developer License SKU 12479
    - Order Date: 
    - Price: $1,750.00 (Non-discounted store price)
    - Game Developer License for Commercial Developers
    (Developers with Personal or Business income of MORE than $100,000.00 annually. All discounts are not applicable to this item.)  
    - This is a personal life time license and will cover all products released under the “DAZ Originals” vendor name in the past and the future for an unlimited amount of projects.

     

    - - -

    When customers pay a 1750 $  license fee it should be a common courtesy to provide them with proper receipts that list all the necessary information.

    Please resolve those issues not just for me but for everyone else.

    ​Again, please consider that your customers need to be able to show 3rd party business partners proper documentation that can easily be understood and verified.

    - - -

    edited: provided a link to this post in Request #255328.

    I hope DAZ3D now has all the required information to understand the situation.

     

    Product Library - Game Devloper License.jpg
    1912 x 909 - 306K
    Post edited by linvanchene on
  • Yes, export licenses cost more, but $1500 for their 100 head / essentials package with faceware and iclone, is substantially cheaper than spending ~$80,000 to be able to use my current content library freely and without silly amounts of spreadsheets to keep track of.

    Their standalone packs are on the order of a few hundred dollars WITH export licenses. Mass distribution licenses are free (with the export license); you just have to contact Reallusion to register it.

    And if you're comfortable making your own content, you can use MD and other modeling tools for. for clothes, props, buildings, etc.. Substance Painter or Quixel for Painting. And you're still way cheaper than spending tens of thousands for indivudal use licenses for DAZ content. For me, purchasing any DAZ content (and I've purchased a fair amount now on sales) was dependent on knowing I could use it fairly freely and affordably in games, animations etc.. and that I could inexpensively upgrade my Indie license if I needed to down the line.

    If that path towards eventual profitability is gone, I'll just get my library refunded and look elsewhere (iClone and/or other alternatives as necessary). DAZ is nice, but not $100,000 nice. Maybe I would feel differently were I born wealthy and had no concept of money or the cost of things.

    I have a strong feeling that Daz is not going to make you upgrade or buy new licenses. For one thing how on earth would they keep track of it, second the EULA makes no mention of indie vs a pro license.

    I know they are moving slow as hell right now but they will get back to you and if you have that much content I am sure they will work with you  

  • WandererWanderer Posts: 906

    If the company would simply show enough respect for customers to explain the impact of these language choices, we might be able to avoid further complications.

  • In the past it was possible to show a paypal receipt listing the price and the SKU and then provide a link to the EULA and the store pages.

     

    Till you get a real answer could you just show your purchase history from your account page. It would show you do in fact own a license then just provide a ling tot he new EULA where it discusses how the license is still good?

    Clearly not the best solution but hold you over until daz gets their act together  

  • CrescentCrescent Posts: 222
    edited November 2017

    Here's what was published for the game licenses in December, 2016 (the most recent I could find off-hand using the Wayback Machine):

    https://web.archive.org/web/20161221194702/https://www.daz3d.com/commercial-game-developer-license

    https://web.archive.org/web/20161130005901/http://www.daz3d.com:80/indie-game-developer-license

    https://web.archive.org/web/20161231211132/http://www.daz3d.com/eula

    3.0 Daz Commercial Real-time Addendum

    The terms of this addendum 3.0 are in force only when User has purchased a “Game Develoer License” from the online Daz store.

    The terms of this addendum 3.0 apply to all products the User has purchased via his/her online Daz store account that can be identified in the online Daz store using the following criteria: 

    • The “Artist” field in the product page for the Content lists one of the Artists as: “Daz Originals”
    • The “Artist” field in the product page for the Content lists one of the Artists an artist which corresponds to the Game Developer License purchased by User.

    All Content that can be identified according to the above criteria shall hereinafter be referred to as “CRT Content”. The terms of this addendum 3.0 do not apply to any other Content. 

    • Modified Terms of Use. This section replaces Section 1.0 Bullet 5: “TERMS OF USE” for CRT Content ONLY. 

      Two Dimensional Works. Subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement, User may (i) incorporate, copy and modify the CRT Content in the creation and presentation of two-dimensional animations and renderings which may require access to the CRT Content by the User’s customer during electronic execution of the User’s application, and (ii) incorporate two dimensional images (including two dimensional images that simulate motion of three dimensional objects) derived by User from the CRT Content in User’s other two-dimensional works, and (iii) publish, market, distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense such two-dimensional animations, renderings and other works; provided that User may not in any case: publish, market, distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense any renderings, animations, software applications, data or any other product from which any CRT Content, or any part thereof, or any substantially similar version of the CRT Content can be separately exported, extracted, or de-compiled into any re-distributable form or format. All other rights with respect to the CRT Content and its use are reserved by Daz and its licensors. User warrants and is responsible to ensure that the CRT Content used in User’s applications are not available to end users in their native formats and that every effort is made to protect the CRT Content from theft or copyright infringement by employing technology, asset protection, encryption or any other resources at User’s disposal. 

      Three Dimensional Works. Daz wishes to encourage the expansion of the catalog of Content available to its users. Accordingly, User may access, use, copy, and modify the Content to create one or more derived or additional three-dimensional works provided that: 
       
      • any such derived or additional three-dimensional works are designed to require or encourage the use of CRT Content available through the online Daz store either by (i) requiring the use of such CRT Content to function, or (ii) allowing only limited function when not used in conjunction with CRT Content from the online Daz store; and
      • upon receipt of a written request from Daz, User immediately ceases any and all distribution of the art that User has created from the CRT Content, if Daz has determined, in its sole discretion, that (i) such art is substantially similar to or is a clone of existing Content; or (ii) such derived or additional work fails to require the use of Content available through the online Daz store.

      The creation of three-dimensional physical representations (3D-print, molded copy, CNC-routed copy, and the like) of Content or any three-dimensional art derived from the Content is permitted only for personal, non-commercial use by the User. Additionally, the user may not grant other entities or individuals the right to produce such physical representations of the Content except for the sole purpose of providing the print to the User for their personal use. 
      All other rights with respect to the Content and its use are reserved by Daz and its licensors.
    • While incorporation of the CRT Content into User’s applications is authorized as set forth above, User expressly agrees and acknowledges that any discrete sale of CRT Content separate from a purchase of the User’s application is allowable ONLY with express written consent of Daz. Thus, for example, within the context of a game, the sale or purchase of the CRT Content, portions thereof, or either two-dimensional or three-dimensional derivatives thereof as a separately-purchased commodity or upgrade using items of actual or virtual worth is prohibited without prior written consent of Daz. Written consent of Daz may be sought at the address set forth herein.
    Post edited by Crescent on
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 906

    Okay, again... Daz rep didn't answer the question. Can anyone explain what this will mean for me if I want to create, say, an FPS with Daz 3D models?

    Three Dimensional Works. DAZ wishes to encourage the expansion of the catalog of Content available to its users. Accordingly, User may access, use, copy, and modify the Content to create one or more derived or additional three-dimensional works provided that: 

    • any such derived or additional three-dimensional works are designed to require or encourage the use of CRT Content available through the online DAZ store either by (i) requiring the use of such CRT Content to function, or (ii) allowing only limited function when not used in conjunction with CRT Content from the online DAZ store; and
    • upon receipt of a written request from DAZ, User immediately ceases any and all distribution of the art that User has created from the CRT Content, if DAZ has determined, in its sole discretion, that (i) such art is substantially similar to or is a clone of existing Content; or (ii) such derived or additional work fails to require the use of Content available through the online DAZ store.

     

    This makes it sound as if I cannot do that now without putting some purchase requirement upon the user and modifying the models significantly before using them in the game. Can someone tell me what this means to me?

  • BeeMKayBeeMKay Posts: 6,686

    I can't answer your questions, but I just want to drop in that it is Friday around three pm in DAZ land now. I'm not sure how long they will be in the office, but chances are that there will be no replies from anyone official until next week, as they don't have CS during the weekend.

    Just throwing this in here before someone blows a casket over 'em not replying "at once" i.e. if they really got swamped with requests. This also happened during The Great Encrypted Content Disaster of 2016 (in which DAZ ultimately came around to listen to customer complaints, too).

  • Wanderer

          I think the part you are looking at deasl with someone building upon an item in order to sell a new item in the store. The part I think game dev should read into is the last section of 3.0 which reads

    While incorporation of the CRT Content into User’s applications is authorized as set forth above, User expressly agrees and acknowledges that any discrete sale of CRT Content separate from a purchase of the User’s application is allowable ONLY with express written consent of DAZ. Thus, for example, within the context of a game, the sale or purchase of the CRT Content, portions thereof, or either two-dimensional or three-dimensional derivatives thereof as a separately-purchased commodity or upgrade using items of actual or virtual worth is prohibited without prior written consent of DAZ. Written consent of DAZ may be sought at the address set forth herein.

    Which pretty much says that we can not sell content that we buy from Daz to our customers.

  • Wanderer

          I think the part you are looking at deasl with someone building upon an item in order to sell a new item in the store. The part I think game dev should read into is the last section of 3.0 which reads

    While incorporation of the CRT Content into User’s applications is authorized as set forth above, User expressly agrees and acknowledges that any discrete sale of CRT Content separate from a purchase of the User’s application is allowable ONLY with express written consent of DAZ. Thus, for example, within the context of a game, the sale or purchase of the CRT Content, portions thereof, or either two-dimensional or three-dimensional derivatives thereof as a separately-purchased commodity or upgrade using items of actual or virtual worth is prohibited without prior written consent of DAZ. Written consent of DAZ may be sought at the address set forth herein.

    Which pretty much says that we can not sell content that we buy from Daz to our customers.

    Right, the section 3.0 stuff is about creating content derived from store content (e.g. using the transfer Utility to rig a figure from Genesis # - OK to make an add-on, not OK to make a stand-alone figure).

  • WandererWanderer Posts: 906

    Wanderer

          I think the part you are looking at deasl with someone building upon an item in order to sell a new item in the store. The part I think game dev should read into is the last section of 3.0 which reads

    While incorporation of the CRT Content into User’s applications is authorized as set forth above, User expressly agrees and acknowledges that any discrete sale of CRT Content separate from a purchase of the User’s application is allowable ONLY with express written consent of DAZ. Thus, for example, within the context of a game, the sale or purchase of the CRT Content, portions thereof, or either two-dimensional or three-dimensional derivatives thereof as a separately-purchased commodity or upgrade using items of actual or virtual worth is prohibited without prior written consent of DAZ. Written consent of DAZ may be sought at the address set forth herein.

    Which pretty much says that we can not sell content that we buy from Daz to our customers.

    Thanks. That makes sense now. When the rep responded to my questions earlier, they didn't answer that. I appreciate having another set of eyes on it. So, as long as we take necessary precautions to keep users from extracting meshes (which if they are doing this to AAA companies, I'm not sure what we're to do), we shouldn't have any issues with using models we have rights to use in a game or other application in 3D form.

  • The real thing i want to know is ..

    WHY?

    Why they removed the indie license?

    I totally see myself buying the indie license for daz content and buy the interactive for PA items i want.

    The addition of the new license was making me thing about the option to buy a few item from RawArt for example.

     

    So why they see the need to remove it?

    To adjust price to the market? People usually will prefer a market already linked to the project they work on, for example buying asset on the unreal engine marketplace. Everything is optimized... etc etc...

    Yes some game dev already have a licence.. but you bough one for one title only remember? (if the old indie license is good for unlimited number of project to follow the logic of the new license, they never need to buy a new license for ever!.  Which mean Daz doesnt make money.. and of course that doesnt make sense.

     

    I hope they come back next week and just bring back the indie license and let the customer choose between.

     

    Everyone will be happy isnt? Whats wrong with that?

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