Interactive License?

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Comments

  • Yeah PC+ pricing can be a huge discount when you buy right

    I believe at teh time Daz originals had a discount if you bought 2 new releases (the hair tutorials were new). Then you got extra money off for being a PC+ member

     

  • edited November 2017

     

    No license on Unreal marketplace.. fyi. 

    Incorrect. It's just incorporated into the base price, and tracking down the legalese is bizarrely difficult. However, if you read the marketplace FAQ, they both reference 'sublicensing' (which presupposes a license) and they have all sorts of restrictions on what you can and can't do with the content, the very definition of a license.

    Yes, youre right, but limitation regarding the use of the asset into unreal project is not a problem for game dev like me (im using unreal engine only)

     (but could be a problem  for customer only looking for great 3d model usable on all software (unity / cryengine etc))

     

    I do think Daz could be a reference in the video game industry if it take the indie game dev market.

    A workflow between daz and other game engine is slowly being elaborated through different tutorial... , the workflow development got a major boost recently because the game engine is now free...

    some software are even doing the job to convert daz model into fbx format compatible to game engine

     

    Ive pick up daz once i knew that the daz to unreal workflow exist and is was working without too much steps...

    At my opinion, they should have added the new license AND let the customer time to notice it and see if they are better buying the old indie game license before they removed it.

    I didnt buy it before the license got removed because i was exploring the application and lets be honest, i wasnt planning to buy the license until im at least in alpha testing phase (where my product are in hands other than mine)

    And i still hope they bring that license back... customer should have the option... thats all...  They make money from both license and both kind of customers are happy.

     

    Post edited by hexadecimalentertainment on
  • mikekmikek Posts: 160
    edited November 2017

    Yeah PC+ pricing can be a huge discount when you buy right

    I believe at teh time Daz originals had a discount if you bought 2 new releases (the hair tutorials were new). Then you got extra money off for being a PC+ member

     

    Considering your example them not having a discount at all with the new license is a bit strange. It should be also interesting to see if now more developers will use stock characters form bundles. As mixing clothes, skin, hair, shoes, items, morphs for a unique look from different products can get one pretty fast to $200 -$300 game license costs alone for one char.

    Post edited by mikek on
  • edited November 2017
    Ati said:

    Can someone confirm that if you buy the interactive license for a bundle, all item in the bundle get the license?

    50$ per PRO bundle could help make the pill pass lol

    That and if its true that this license is good for unlimited project/game compare to a indie game license per game title

    There doesn't seem to be a way to buy just the interactive license. You can only buy it along with the product. Now if you buy the pro bundle, you won't buy the individual items in it again. So logically that should cover everything in the bundle. (From a technical point of view.)

    Speaking of getting the license separately... In the 
    past if you wanted to use all your 5000 items that you have already bought, you went ahead and bought the license. Done. What happens now? I don't see a way to buy just the licenses. Do we need to buy all the products again as well?

    Forget it. You CAN buy just the license only, by adding the item + the license in the cart and then deleting the item, keeping the license in there.

     

    nice to confirm this... but my question is about adding license to product you already have.... if you bough one for a bundle... do all the product in the bundle get the license?

    Think of any starter or pro bundle...

    Step:

    Buy the product without license (or go to a product you already own)

    buy the license of a bundle 

    go on the store page of one of the item included in the bundle

    Do you still have to pay for a license?

     

    If yes, i think its a bug...  they should not let us buy a license for a bundle if individual license are required

    (but that may drop the interest of buying a bundle)

    Post edited by hexadecimalentertainment on
  • pruggipruggi Posts: 151

    Maybe I'm being daft and it's already written somewhere - but can someone confirm if buying the interactive license for a product allows you to use it in multiple projects/games rather than just one? I'm interested to buy a few items from Rawart and Outoftouch that I've eyed for awhile now...

  • edited November 2017

    I spent a little over $1,000 back in 2009 for Daz Studio 3 Advanced, Bryce 6, Carrara 7 Pro, Mimic Pro and Hexagon 2.5... I never even used them. The licensing back then was too restrictive. Or at least that is what it appeared to me. I was into XNA game development at the time, and it didn't appear that the content could be licensed to used in games.

    Well, I came back last week (only 8 years later) and since I'm now utilizing the Unity game engine and decided to give Daz another go... what's that?  Oh Daz is now free? um, ok.

    But there is this license you need to get? Commercial game dev license is $2,500 ... hmmm ... but it can only be used in a single game?

    I log in today to look at some items and see now that each item has this interactive license. OK, so if I need a character I need to get a base at the cost + license ... and then the actual model and then the clothes ... and each one has this $50 interactive license fee? So after 50 items I've hit that original $2,500 mark. Now from what I could tell, the dev license was for a single game ... so that was bogus. Are the interactive licenses for the item bought now ... and so it can be in any number of games? You know what, nevermind.

    Sorry Daz, but yet again your licensing headaches is making me go elsewhere. Maybe I'll be back in the year 2025 or something to see if you all have figured out licensing content yet.  It really shouldn't take a lawyer to figure out how the assets can be used. I still have no idea if the Victoria 4.2 and Michael 4.2 models I have can be used in a game or not.

    I'll grab my 3D character content elsewhere, thanks. I have too many things to do to spend so much time trying to figure out your crazy licensing.

    Post edited by kewlniss_a0d5f7beb1 on
  • marander3dmarander3d Posts: 50
    edited November 2017
    mikek said:

     

     

    The indie license could be purchased well less than 100 dollars a great number of times, as for poly count daz has tools to help reduce the number of polys. At the price point the license was selling for there was little reason for anyone who was planning on releaseing a game not have bought it. 

    Markets change all the time, Daz clearly felt their old model was outdated and put it, with what they feel, is more inline with current market. I agree the prices for the individual items seems a bit high (no way the license should cost double of what the item price is) they will probably go back and make corrections

    A few years ago a buddy of mine wanted me to buy into Bitcoin. I told him he was nuts. The coins I would have paid 5-10 dollars for then are now worth over $5000 each. Markets change and all we consumers can do is adapt

    The lowest I saw for the indie license was 300 dollar. I was actually hoping it would go down around black friday thats the main reason why I decided to wait for this month. If the PAs and Daz feel it's fair and it works for them concerning sale numbers with the current price then I can probably accept it. But for my game content it means the old 3D king is dead long live the new(old) 2D king.

     

    The indie license was $75 some days ago (part of the pc+ sales with a new release, but even less with the gift card $90 instead of $100). Don't ask me about the weird DAZ calculation in the orders view but it was a sweet deal.

     

    Items Ordered - 29.10.2017:

    EJ Nina and Ella for Genesis 8 Female         48041     $21.95
    Fantasy Fighter for Genesis 8 Female(s)     47979     $22.95
    Wizard Outfit for Genesis 3 Male(s)     45911     $24.95
    Indie Game Developer License     12113     $500.00

            Price
    Subtotal $569.85
    Discount -$80.67
    Store Credit -$100.00
    Grand Total $4.36

     

    But generally I appreciate the option to buy PA dev / interactive licenses for individual assets if required. Maybe the prices will come down a bit or there will be 'interactive sales' in future :-)

    Post edited by marander3d on
  • mikek said:

     

     

    The indie license could be purchased well less than 100 dollars a great number of times, as for poly count daz has tools to help reduce the number of polys. At the price point the license was selling for there was little reason for anyone who was planning on releaseing a game not have bought it. 

    Markets change all the time, Daz clearly felt their old model was outdated and put it, with what they feel, is more inline with current market. I agree the prices for the individual items seems a bit high (no way the license should cost double of what the item price is) they will probably go back and make corrections

    A few years ago a buddy of mine wanted me to buy into Bitcoin. I told him he was nuts. The coins I would have paid 5-10 dollars for then are now worth over $5000 each. Markets change and all we consumers can do is adapt

    The lowest I saw for the indie license was 300 dollar. I was actually hoping it would go down around black friday thats the main reason why I decided to wait for this month. If the PAs and Daz feel it's fair and it works for them concerning sale numbers with the current price then I can probably accept it. But for my game content it means the old 3D king is dead long live the new(old) 2D king.

     

    The indie license was $75 some days ago (even less with the gift card $90 instead of 100$)

     

    Items Ordered - 29.10.2017:

    EJ Nina and Ella for Genesis 8 Female         48041     $21.95
    Fantasy Fighter for Genesis 8 Female(s)     47979     $22.95
    Wizard Outfit for Genesis 3 Male(s)     45911     $24.95
    Indie Game Developer License     12113     $500.00

            Price
    Subtotal $569.85
    Discount -$80.67
    Store Credit -$100.00
    Grand Total $4.36

    and I thought I did ok getting it under $150  (I had another item in that cart so unsure exactly how much less)

  • CypherFOXCypherFOX Posts: 3,333

    Greetings,

    I read the license; it seems relatively clear that there's no count limit in the license.

    I imagine most games will not use primarily purchased models for their content; the idea seems to be that folks will develop their own content, and use DAZ for the occasional character or prop that they don't want to build, or that fits their genre/vision.  The idea here isn't 'I can buy ALL my game models on DAZ!' but rather, 'I can use a few spot models from DAZ to accellerate my game development'.

    If you haven't shipped a game yet, it's also worth remembering that you don't need the license if you never ship the game...  In other words, you can build with whatever you want, and just keep track of what components you'll need to buy.  Then, if it looks like it's actually going to be finished (Spoiler: most won't) then you can acquire the necessary licenses.

    I don't think the new license structure is an awful idea.  I do think they should have had an overlap period (the standard 2 weeks, maybe) with both license types available, that would have allowed folks who are concerned to buy the larger scale licenses, but...there'd be upset folks anyway.  This license type is (1) worse for folks who want to use exclusively stuff by one PA (or who want to use DAZ Original stuff), and (2) VASTLY better for folks who want to use a wide variety of items from different PAs.  I feel like DAZ should continue to offer their own broad license for DO's, because then customers would get the large set of items in DAZ O's, and to pick and choose additional assets from other PA's.

    I definitely like the idea that they've eliminated the distinction between $100K and commercial licenses for the new stuff, and each individual PA doesn't have to have their own pair of licenses.

    --  Morgan

     

  • BeeMKayBeeMKay Posts: 6,686
    edited November 2017

    Here's the text of the addendum 3:

    3.0 Interactive License Addendum

    The terms of this addendum 3.0 are in force only when User has purchased a “Game Develoer License” or an “Interactive License Add-On” from the online DAZ store.

    For any User who has purchased one or more Game Developer Licenses the terms of this Addendum 3.0 apply to all Content that the User has purchased a license to via the DAZ store where the “Artist” field of the Content contains a list of one or more Artist Names, and that the User has also purchased Game Developer Licenses such that the User has purchased a Game Developer License for each of the Artist Names represented in the Artist Name field of the Content.

    For any User who has purchased one or more Interactive Add-On Licenses via the DAZ store, the terms of this Addendum 3.0 apply to all Content that the User has purchased such an Interactive Add-On License for.

    In the case of Game Developer Licenses where the Artist Name for that license is “Daz Originals”. The terms of this section 3.0 apply to all content which also contains “Daz Originals” in the Artist Name, regardless of the presence of additional artist names also in that field.

    All Content that can be identified according to the above criteria shall hereinafter be referred to as “CRT Content”. The terms of this addendum 3.0 do not apply to any other Content.

    • Modified Terms of Use. This section replaces Section 1.0 Bullet 5: “TERMS OF USE” for CRT Content ONLY.

      Two Dimensional Works. Subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement, User may (i) incorporate, copy and modify the CRT Content in the creation and presentation of two-dimensional animations and renderings which may require access to the CRT Content by the User’s customer during electronic execution of the User’s application, and (ii) incorporate two dimensional images (including two dimensional images that simulate motion of three dimensional objects) derived by User from the CRT Content in User’s other two-dimensional works, and (iii) publish, market, distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense such two-dimensional animations, renderings and other works; provided that User may not in any case: publish, market, distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense any renderings, animations, software applications, data or any other product from which any CRT Content, or any part thereof, or any substantially similar version of the CRT Content can be separately exported, extracted, or de-compiled into any re-distributable form or format. All other rights with respect to the CRT Content and its use are reserved by DAZ and its licensors. User warrants and is responsible to ensure that the CRT Content used in User’s applications are not available to end users in their native formats and that every effort is made to protect the CRT Content from theft or copyright infringement by employing technology, asset protection, encryption or any other resources at User’s disposal.

      Three Dimensional Works. DAZ wishes to encourage the expansion of the catalog of Content available to its users. Accordingly, User may access, use, copy, and modify the Content to create one or more derived or additional three-dimensional works provided that:
       
      • any such derived or additional three-dimensional works are designed to require or encourage the use of CRT Content available through the online DAZ store either by (i) requiring the use of such CRT Content to function, or (ii) allowing only limited function when not used in conjunction with CRT Content from the online DAZ store; and
      • upon receipt of a written request from DAZ, User immediately ceases any and all distribution of the art that User has created from the CRT Content, if DAZ has determined, in its sole discretion, that (i) such art is substantially similar to or is a clone of existing Content; or (ii) such derived or additional work fails to require the use of Content available through the online DAZ store.

      The creation of three-dimensional physical representations (3D-print, molded copy, CNC-routed copy, and the like) of Content or any three-dimensional art derived from the Content is permitted only for personal, non-commercial use by the User. Additionally, the user may not grant other entities or individuals the right to produce such physical representations of the Content except for the sole purpose of providing the print to the User for their personal use.
      All other rights with respect to the Content and its use are reserved by DAZ and its licensors.
    • While incorporation of the CRT Content into User’s applications is authorized as set forth above, User expressly agrees and acknowledges that any discrete sale of CRT Content separate from a purchase of the User’s application is allowable ONLY with express written consent of DAZ. Thus, for example, within the context of a game, the sale or purchase of the CRT Content, portions thereof, or either two-dimensional or three-dimensional derivatives thereof as a separately-purchased commodity or upgrade using items of actual or virtual worth is prohibited without prior written consent of DAZ. Written consent of DAZ may be sought at the address set forth herein.

    EDIT: Removed Highlight.

    Post edited by BeeMKay on
  • CypherFOXCypherFOX Posts: 3,333
    edited November 2017

    Greetings,

    @BeeMKay That's actually _not_ the section you care about as a game dev.  The section of the EULA you care about is the previous one.

    Two Dimensional Works. Subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement, User may (i) incorporate, copy and modify the CRT Content in the creation and presentation of two-dimensional animations and renderings which may require access to the CRT Content by the User’s customer during electronic execution of the User’s application, and (ii) incorporate two dimensional images (including two dimensional images that simulate motion of three dimensional objects) derived by User from the CRT Content in User’s other two-dimensional works, and (iii) publish, market, distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense such two-dimensional animations, renderings and other works; provided that User may not in any case: publish, market, distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense any renderings, animations, software applications, data or any other product from which any CRT Content, or any part thereof, or any substantially similar version of the CRT Content can be separately exported, extracted, or de-compiled into any re-distributable form or format. All other rights with respect to the CRT Content and its use are reserved by DAZ and its licensors. User warrants and is responsible to ensure that the CRT Content used in User’s applications are not available to end users in their native formats and that every effort is made to protect the CRT Content from theft or copyright infringement by employing technology, asset protection, encryption or any other resources at User’s disposal.

    The section you highlighted has to do with creating derivative models for sale.  This is for things like...textures for outfits, or morphs.  That section allows folks to sell their 'derivative works' on Renderosity, and other stores.  You can also compare that section (the 'Three Dimensional Works') to the 'General License Agreement' and see that it's nearly identical.

    The section which is a big difference from the General License Agreement is the one that I highlighted.

    --  Morgan

    Post edited by CypherFOX on
  • marander3dmarander3d Posts: 50
    edited November 2017
    th3Digit said:
    mikek said:

     

     

    The indie license could be purchased well less than 100 dollars a great number of times, as for poly count daz has tools to help reduce the number of polys. At the price point the license was selling for there was little reason for anyone who was planning on releaseing a game not have bought it. 

    Markets change all the time, Daz clearly felt their old model was outdated and put it, with what they feel, is more inline with current market. I agree the prices for the individual items seems a bit high (no way the license should cost double of what the item price is) they will probably go back and make corrections

    A few years ago a buddy of mine wanted me to buy into Bitcoin. I told him he was nuts. The coins I would have paid 5-10 dollars for then are now worth over $5000 each. Markets change and all we consumers can do is adapt

    The lowest I saw for the indie license was 300 dollar. I was actually hoping it would go down around black friday thats the main reason why I decided to wait for this month. If the PAs and Daz feel it's fair and it works for them concerning sale numbers with the current price then I can probably accept it. But for my game content it means the old 3D king is dead long live the new(old) 2D king.

     

    The indie license was $75 some days ago (even less with the gift card $90 instead of 100$)

     

    Items Ordered - 29.10.2017:

    EJ Nina and Ella for Genesis 8 Female         48041     $21.95
    Fantasy Fighter for Genesis 8 Female(s)     47979     $22.95
    Wizard Outfit for Genesis 3 Male(s)     45911     $24.95
    Indie Game Developer License     12113     $500.00

            Price
    Subtotal $569.85
    Discount -$80.67
    Store Credit -$100.00
    Grand Total $4.36

    and I thought I did ok getting it under $150  (I had another item in that cart so unsure exactly how much less)

     

    th3Digit said:
    mikek said:

     

     

    The indie license could be purchased well less than 100 dollars a great number of times, as for poly count daz has tools to help reduce the number of polys. At the price point the license was selling for there was little reason for anyone who was planning on releaseing a game not have bought it. 

    Markets change all the time, Daz clearly felt their old model was outdated and put it, with what they feel, is more inline with current market. I agree the prices for the individual items seems a bit high (no way the license should cost double of what the item price is) they will probably go back and make corrections

    A few years ago a buddy of mine wanted me to buy into Bitcoin. I told him he was nuts. The coins I would have paid 5-10 dollars for then are now worth over $5000 each. Markets change and all we consumers can do is adapt

    The lowest I saw for the indie license was 300 dollar. I was actually hoping it would go down around black friday thats the main reason why I decided to wait for this month. If the PAs and Daz feel it's fair and it works for them concerning sale numbers with the current price then I can probably accept it. But for my game content it means the old 3D king is dead long live the new(old) 2D king.

     

    The indie license was $75 some days ago (even less with the gift card $90 instead of 100$)

     

    Items Ordered - 29.10.2017:

    EJ Nina and Ella for Genesis 8 Female         48041     $21.95
    Fantasy Fighter for Genesis 8 Female(s)     47979     $22.95
    Wizard Outfit for Genesis 3 Male(s)     45911     $24.95
    Indie Game Developer License     12113     $500.00

            Price
    Subtotal $569.85
    Discount -$80.67
    Store Credit -$100.00
    Grand Total $4.36

    and I thought I did ok getting it under $150  (I had another item in that cart so unsure exactly how much less)

    Yes it was listed as $150 but with all conditions met for the pc+ sales there was a 50% on it. These were the reduced prices before the pc+ discount (-$80.67):

    EJ Nina and Ella for Genesis 8 Female 48041 1 $8.43
    Fantasy Fighter for Genesis 8 Female(s) 47979 1 $8.81
    Wizard Outfit for Genesis 3 Male(s) 45911 1 $12.12
    Indie Game Developer License 12113 1 $150.00

     

    It was a nice sale but maybe I'll never really need the license :-) but who knows. My Unreal experiments are very basic so far and the DAZ import is not so smooth imo. Importing DAZ content in my main app C4D works perfect however.

    Post edited by marander3d on
  • mikekmikek Posts: 160
    edited November 2017

     

    The indie license was $75 some days ago (part of the pc+ sales with a new release, but even less with the gift card $90 instead of $100). Don't ask me about the weird DAZ calculation in the orders view but it was a sweet deal.

     

    Items Ordered - 29.10.2017:

    EJ Nina and Ella for Genesis 8 Female         48041     $21.95
    Fantasy Fighter for Genesis 8 Female(s)     47979     $22.95
    Wizard Outfit for Genesis 3 Male(s)     45911     $24.95
    Indie Game Developer License     12113     $500.00

            Price
    Subtotal $569.85
    Discount -$80.67
    Store Credit -$100.00
    Grand Total $4.36

     

    But generally I appreciate the option to buy PA dev / interactive licenses for individual assets if required. Maybe the prices will come down a bit or there will be 'interactive sales' in future :-)

     

    Thats just crazy and just last week. Damn.

     

    CypherFOX said:

    the idea seems to be that folks will develop their own content, and use DAZ for the occasional character or prop that they don't want to build, or that fits their genre/vision. 

    But then the question is who is the target group? If a dev buys high quality and realistic characters he will need high quality and realistic backgrounds as it won't fit together otherwise. But if he has the resources to build high quality backgrounds why would he buy the character? Developers who have the resources to build their own backgrounds usually prefer to build their own characters and make them unique instead of using stock items everyone can buy.

    Post edited by mikek on
  • dreamfarmerdreamfarmer Posts: 2,127

    Well... Daz doesn't just sell realistic characters. I think some of the new Precious line would fit very nicely into some of these 'hand-painted' sets over on Unity.

    But also, time and money are not the same thing despite being closely related. Every dev and dev team has to work out their own cost analysis, but even if they have the 3d modeling skills to do some stuff, they can still save a LOT of time by offloading small portions of that work to freelancers OR... buying premade assets. And they can save money by making some stuff on their own. So maybe they want to FOCUS on making those unique characters, but they want to, say, buy a premade forest? Or they've got a very specific character who actually inspired their game, and they want HER as the main quest NPC, darn it. And now they can get her.

  • Dream CutterDream Cutter Posts: 1,221
    edited November 2017

    Frankly, I like the fact that the cotent is NOT game optimized with pregenerated LOD's.  One reason is because different types of publishing rutime engines each has its own partclar format, optimization  and asset packaging criteria.  This leaves it oen for us to choose the best for our needs.  Furthermore you really dont want to include original distro quailty content i your runime package (game) so you eliinate any possibiliy of  breaching EULA by offering potential for content ripping by pirates.

    Post edited by Dream Cutter on
  • edited November 2017

    Frankly, I like the fact that the cotent is NOT game optimized with pregenerated LOD's.  One reason is because different types of publishing rutime engines each has its own partclar format, optimization  and asset packaging criteria.  This leaves it oen for us to choose the best for our needs.  Furthermore you really dont want to include original distro quailty content i your runime package (game) so you eliinate any possibiliy of  breaching EULA by offering potential for content ripping by pirates.

    If this was directed at me, thanks for the reply. My gripe is with the licensing. Your comment speaks to this... they way you are looking at it, I could simply export the 3D model and decimate it and create a lower quality model and distribute that with my game and be ok. That is not how I read it. Of course, I'm not a lawyer and my guess is you aren't either. Daz needs to make this more clear. Also, by developing for a console, the end user wouldn't have any access to the files to rip (well for all practical purposes).

    I believe that if I use the 3D models in my game then I'd need to buy multiple licenses to make it work.  It appears to me, I'd need to pay for example Genesis 3 Starter Essentials ($100) + Genesis 3 Female Head Morphs ($35) + Genesis 3 Body Morphs ($35) + Victoria 7 ($50). Not to mention the actual cost of the content itself. And some characters ,like Adele, don't even have the interactive license option ... so is it not allowed to be used in a 3D game? Or is the license not needed?

    What if I grab the Victoria 7 pro bundle at $134.95. The license is still $50 ... but it comes with a lot of different products ... so I would need to go back and actually purchase the license individually? Like Leyton Hair has a $50 license fee.

    And it isn't clear if the license is for those assets regardless of how many games they would be used in or if they are still for a single title.

    Such a mess.

    Post edited by kewlniss_a0d5f7beb1 on
  • I wonder if Daz is trying to move away from selling individial items in favor of sellign bundles?  As many already noticed the character license fee is 50 if you buy the base character or the pro bundle. If the 50 for the pro bundle covers all teh items in said bundle then you are better off buying it than individual items.

    Hopefully Daz will be on soon to explain how the pro bundle license work

  • AtiAti Posts: 6,727

    I wonder if Daz is trying to move away from selling individial items in favor of sellign bundles?  As many already noticed the character license fee is 50 if you buy the base character or the pro bundle. If the 50 for the pro bundle covers all teh items in said bundle then you are better off buying it than individual items.

    That has always been the case, even without the extra license. Bundles are always better in price, compared to the individual items in them, especially during a big sale. 

  • Dream CutterDream Cutter Posts: 1,221
    edited November 2017

    Frankly, I like the fact that the cotent is NOT game optimized with pregenerated LOD's.  One reason is because different types of publishing rutime engines each has its own partclar format, optimization  and asset packaging criteria.  This leaves it oen for us to choose the best for our needs.  Furthermore you really dont want to include original distro quailty content i your runime package (game) so you eliinate any possibiliy of  breaching EULA by offering potential for content ripping by pirates.

    If this was directed at me, thanks for the reply. My gripe is with the licensing. Your comment speaks to this... they way you are looking at it, I could simply export the 3D model and decimate it and create a lower quality model and distribute that with my game and be ok. That is not how I read it. Of course, I'm not a lawyer and my guess is you aren't either. Daz needs to make this more clear. Also, by developing for a console, the end user wouldn't have any access to the files to rip (well for all practical purposes).

    I believe that if I use the 3D models in my game then I'd need to buy multiple licenses to make it work.  It appears to me, I'd need to pay for example Genesis 3 Starter Essentials ($100) + Genesis 3 Female Head Morphs ($35) + Genesis 3 Body Morphs ($35) + Victoria 7 ($50). Not to mention the actual cost of the content itself. And some characters ,like Adele, don't even have the interactive license option ... so is it not allowed to be used in a 3D game? Or is the license not needed?

    What if I grab the Victoria 7 pro bundle at $134.95. The license is still $50 ... but it comes with a lot of different products ... so I would need to go back and actually purchase the license individually? Like Leyton Hair has a $50 license fee.

    And it isn't clear if the license is for those assets regardless of how many games they would be used in or if they are still for a single title.

    Such a mess.

    Not directed at you so much but to those who complained about the game/ineractive license value in as much that the content is not prepared for interactive publishing methodologies - ie not optomized for particular game engines. New products are ultra high res, have complex rigs relying on vertex animation unsupported by many accessable game engines, and that the UV & Tex Maps are way too many layers and dept etc.  It can be quite a lot of work reducing and optomizing a figure for a game engine resources.  The thing is that most will find pre-game ready assets are not optmial fo todays needs on a particular engine and still require optimization.  Things evolve very fast in the game dev envronment.  I AM NOT suggesting THAT DECIMATION SUBSTITUTES or PERMITS 3D GAME USE.  You still MUST hold the interactive/game licene to publish ANY derrivation of a DAZ 3D store content product in 3D runtimes.

    What I do understand is the value of having rights to publish your works anyway you want.  IMO Thats worth the 4x uplift in item price.  Not having 3d publishing capability is the greatest limiting factor from buying more third party content. I have very little PA prduct in my DAZ 3D library for tis very reason, but I have oodles of DO's because I feel I can use them more freely in my creations.  This value is granted by the ARTIST not the store, because thier product offering has expaded and that expansion LIMITS the artists to further resell that capability due to DAZ store product exclusivity requirements.  he PA cant now license this item as a low poly derrivation in the unity store for example. So there is a REAL cost to the developer and this is his oppertuity to capture that potential lost revenue.

    Post edited by Dream Cutter on
  • mikekmikek Posts: 160
    edited November 2017

    But also, time and money are not the same thing despite being closely related. Every dev and dev team has to work out their own cost analysis, but even if they have the 3d modeling skills to do some stuff, they can still save a LOT of time by offloading small portions of that work to freelancers OR... buying premade assets. And they can save money by making some stuff on their own. So maybe they want to FOCUS on making those unique characters, but they want to, say, buy a premade forest? Or they've got a very specific character who actually inspired their game, and they want HER as the main quest NPC, darn it. And now they can get her.

    Especially concerning premade forest they would still compete with the engine store. There are daz items who will work well in a realtime engine with some work but others can require quite a lot adjustments to run and look nice from my experiments with it. For engine store items it's also not uncommon to be very modular and them presenting it in the store (good for level building) while a lot daz items tend to be more of the one scene type. 

    I wonder if Daz is trying to move away from selling individial items in favor of sellign bundles?  As many already noticed the character license fee is 50 if you buy the base character or the pro bundle. If the 50 for the pro bundle covers all teh items in said bundle then you are better off buying it than individual items.

     

    Its possible $50 is currently just the max they allow. At least I haven't seen any item with higher value yet.

    Post edited by mikek on
  • jillval8jillval8 Posts: 50
    edited November 2017

    umm the only people I see defending this are people the people who were lucky enough to grab liscense before it was taken down.  Not sure why the couple of people are contuing to post there discounted list daz liceising price. Nobody cares, how is iit relavite to the subject, other then you just bragging about it.. What do you want a cookie?

    Post edited by jillval8 on
  • I hope they do not go higher than 50 that would no doubt cost them a few sales

  • nmargie_d65db43582nmargie_d65db43582 Posts: 152
    edited November 2017
    jillval8 said:

    umm the only people I see defending this are people the people who were lucky enough to grab liscense before it was taken down.  Not sure why the couple of people are contuing to post there discounted list daz liceising price. Nobody cares, how is iit relavite to the subject, other then you just bragging about it.. What do you want a cookie?

    As someone who posted their discounted price, it was not done to brag it was done to prove my earlier statement that it was easy to get for less than $100. Even with that I did not get the best deal as others on here even got it for less than I did

    People who got the indie license were not luckey they just boguht soemthing before went away. Daz could have ended that license and the people you call luckey today would have been seen as fools.As a license holder myself I will be the first to say thier current license prices are to high 

    Post edited by nmargie_d65db43582 on
  • mikek said:

    But also, time and money are not the same thing despite being closely related. Every dev and dev team has to work out their own cost analysis, but even if they have the 3d modeling skills to do some stuff, they can still save a LOT of time by offloading small portions of that work to freelancers OR... buying premade assets. And they can save money by making some stuff on their own. So maybe they want to FOCUS on making those unique characters, but they want to, say, buy a premade forest? Or they've got a very specific character who actually inspired their game, and they want HER as the main quest NPC, darn it. And now they can get her.

    Especially concerning premade forest they would still compete with the engine store. There are daz items who will work well in a realtime engine with some work but others can require quite a lot adjustments to run and look nice. For engine store items it's also not uncommon to be very modular and them presenting it in the store (good for level building) while a lot daz items tend to be more of the one scene type. 

    I wonder if Daz is trying to move away from selling individial items in favor of sellign bundles?  As many already noticed the character license fee is 50 if you buy the base character or the pro bundle. If the 50 for the pro bundle covers all teh items in said bundle then you are better off buying it than individual items.

     

    It possible $50 is currently just the max they allow. At least I haven't seen any item with higher value yet.

    I've seen the Genesis 3 starter essentials license at 100$.

    Just to add my 2 cents on this subject, like some others in this thread before, I was planning on using Daz assets for a game I recently started working on. I've been purchasing Daz Originals only content recently since I was thinking I would purchase the Indie game license for Daz Originals when the game would be much more advanced and when the license would be on sale. I intended to use Daz assets for my character related content. For environnement and props, I feel that assets offered on games engines marketplace are of much better quality and value for use in game than anything I could find on the Daz store. But for characters and especially character customization, Daz assets were a good fit and I don't think there are many alternatives around. I was planning on using the Genesis 3 character essentials, head and body morphs, 3 characters per gender, around 4 or 5 clothing set per gender and again 5 or 6 hair per gender. Fot this content, the overall price tag is at least 3 times more than with the not discounted Indie license and more importantly, the overall licence would have allowed me to extend my customization possibilities with no additional cost.

    Anyway, the new licensing model is such a huge difference in the overall price I would need to spend that it simply rules Daz use out for my project, and with no real alternative that I can see for now, it probably means the end of that project at all.

    I'm quite bummed right now but of course it's Daz business and they do whatever they want with it, including changing the rules. I guess the new rules will benefit more people, just not me.

     

  • jillval8jillval8 Posts: 50
    edited November 2017

    Interactive License should be no more then 5 dollars. although i dont see it happaing. Like stated before both options should be there foe anyone with large projects, .

    Post edited by jillval8 on
  • jillval8jillval8 Posts: 50
    edited November 2017
    jillval8 said:

    umm the only people I see defending this are people the people who were lucky enough to grab liscense before it was taken down.  Not sure why the couple of people are contuing to post there discounted list daz liceising price. Nobody cares, how is iit relavite to the subject, other then you just bragging about it.. What do you want a cookie?

    As someone who posted their discounted price, it was not done to brag it was done to prove my earlier statement that it was easy to get for less than $100. Even with that I did not get the best deal as others on here even got it for less than I did

    People who got the indie license were not luckey they just boguht soemthing before went away. Daz could have ended that license and the people you call luckey today would have been seen as fools.As a license holder myself I will be the first to say thier current license prices are to high 

    you're intitled to your opioon, we all have em.

    Post edited by jillval8 on
  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 10,821

    Lets remember to address the topic and not an individual per the TOS.

  • nmargie_d65db43582nmargie_d65db43582 Posts: 152
    edited November 2017

    Would love to know what part of my statement was opinion. Something tells me no matter what Daz did today some would still be complaining. Which is my opinion

    Post edited by nmargie_d65db43582 on
  • Dream CutterDream Cutter Posts: 1,221
    edited November 2017
    jillval8 said:

    umm the only people I see defending this are people the people who were lucky enough to grab liscense before it was taken down.  Not sure why the couple of people are contuing to post there discounted list daz liceising price. Nobody cares, how is iit relavite to the subject, other then you just bragging about it.. What do you want a cookie?

    Luck has NOTHING to do with it. I'm not defending anyone, but I am glad about the change because it puts 3d publising into he reach of many more users by reducing the cost of entry.  I never suggested DAZ to remove the game license, but open up the terms and accessability for all PA items.  I've been consistant with this position going back years -  requesting a change from "game" to "realtime 3d publishing"  (interactve project) use.  Game development is frankly far too much coding for most DAZ Customers, but many would like to save thier scenes in webgl and such to make walkthroughs and interactive scenes.
    Sorry for gloating, but you can miss a deal by hesitating on a offering every day here.  The forum and gallery are for bragging about how great DAZ products are... so  Oatmeal if your offering. ;D 
     Really tho no hard feelingsi ntended.

    Post edited by Dream Cutter on
  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 31,126

    Please remember to abide by the Forum ToS

    General Code of Conduct
    #2 Criticism should be directed towards the subject or topic at hand, rather than an individual. 

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