formerly male content creation thread

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  • j cadej cade Posts: 1,823
    edited November 2015

    Well, I'd have an easier time rigging it than modelling it. ;)

    The problem with dangling sleeves for me is less the rigging and more the fact that no matter what you do, posing them is going to have to be very manual, unless one day DAZ has bones that know to point down (That would be awesome though)

    I'll admit I may be weird, I actually like rigging. There's a problem to solve, a system to do it and its really satifying to say, Okay thants done now. Moddeling and texturing are more open ended and artistic.

    Post edited by j cade on
  • lxlx Posts: 2,994

    Thanks everyone that commented.

    diomede, I think that (for me) the buttons one seems easier, but the straps one would look cooler.

  • MKeyesMKeyes Posts: 455

    Very very interested! For certain I will be saving this link and following along. As my plate is major FULL - I am still wanting to follow along, encourage and hope that one day I will be able to put it to use to add something of the same. 

    Incredible idea!

  • Liked your Farmerboy render, Knittingmommy. Kind of reminded me of Lady Chatterley's Lover.

    Thank you.  It was a good excuse to show a lot of chest!  I think he turned out pretty good.  I still have a lot to learn, but at least my Iray renders are getting better.

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited November 2015
    Sonja11 said:

    Just went and had a look at Zbrush.  I didn't realize that scuptris was made by Zbrush

    From wikipedia

    In late July 2010, Sculptris inventor Tomas Pettersson joined the Pixologic team (makers of ZBrush), who have taken over Sculptris development.[3] He left Pixologic 'a while' before March 2014.[4]

    Sculptris was not made by Pixologic! Also Sculptris alpha 6, the stable version came out in 2011! So like haven't seen any updates since then...

     

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,140
    j cade said:

    Well, I'd have an easier time rigging it than modelling it. ;)

    The problem with dangling sleeves for me is less the rigging and more the fact that no matter what you do, posing them is going to have to be very manual, unless one day DAZ has bones that know to point down (That would be awesome though)

    Otherwise known as gravity - a physics simulation ;)

    A hybrid system with bones that are effected by gravity, rather than the cloth (geometry), is an interesting concept that has been bounced around before. I believe the issue would be collision.

    - Greg

  • I'd link (or IK) the pendant sleeves to "gravity" nulls, rather like the eye targets on older figures.  But that's supposing I even got that far into the project.

  • mjc1016 said:
     

    So far, I see two places where 3D assets in general are sorely lacking:  Male facial hair, and tattoos.  There are a few serviceable short beards out there, as well as Garibaldi and LAMH, but even the best examples from them are pretty weak tea.  Same with tattoos.  They just don't look real in close-up (I've been a professional tattooist for thirty years, so I know what I'm talking about).

    So, I'm excited to work on fixing both those issues....

    Tattoos are more of a texturing thing than modelling...and if you've been a tattoo artist, then that will be a big plus in upping the level of realism for them, but you will still be limited by the limitations of the mapping.

    I think that has a lot to do with why they don't look real in closeup.... Tattoos aren't on the skin.... they're in it.  The texture and grain of the skin is visibly different until the tattoo is decades old, and the specular strength will be higher than the surrounding materiel, because the tattoo is actually underneath a clear layer of scar, which passes more light the skin around it..  I'm playing around with modeling and bump mapping and displacements, trying to emulate some of these lost properties (modelling a tattoo into the mesh being only practical for extreme closeup)

    Facial hair is another mixed issue of modelling and texturing.  Once again, I have an inside track, since I can use my own beard for reference. It's not quite duck-dynasty worthy, but it's long enough I have to pull it out of the collar of my shirt when I'm getting dressed.  A beard is made up of layers of hair that vary in texture, color, coarseness and shape, which is why fiber-mesh looks wonky and most other attempts just look weak in close-up, since they tend to have only one textural type.  Current path of experimentation is to create a zone-based layered group of meshes, building up the foundation, body and surface layers of the beard to give it better density and depth.  wish me luck
     

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    mjc1016 said:
     

    So far, I see two places where 3D assets in general are sorely lacking:  Male facial hair, and tattoos.  There are a few serviceable short beards out there, as well as Garibaldi and LAMH, but even the best examples from them are pretty weak tea.  Same with tattoos.  They just don't look real in close-up (I've been a professional tattooist for thirty years, so I know what I'm talking about).

    So, I'm excited to work on fixing both those issues....

    Tattoos are more of a texturing thing than modelling...and if you've been a tattoo artist, then that will be a big plus in upping the level of realism for them, but you will still be limited by the limitations of the mapping.

    I think that has a lot to do with why they don't look real in closeup.... Tattoos aren't on the skin.... they're in it.  The texture and grain of the skin is visibly different until the tattoo is decades old, and the specular strength will be higher than the surrounding materiel, because the tattoo is actually underneath a clear layer of scar, which passes more light the skin around it..  I'm playing around with modeling and bump mapping and displacements, trying to emulate some of these lost properties (modelling a tattoo into the mesh being only practical for extreme closeup)

    Facial hair is another mixed issue of modelling and texturing.  Once again, I have an inside track, since I can use my own beard for reference. It's not quite duck-dynasty worthy, but it's long enough I have to pull it out of the collar of my shirt when I'm getting dressed.  A beard is made up of layers of hair that vary in texture, color, coarseness and shape, which is why fiber-mesh looks wonky and most other attempts just look weak in close-up, since they tend to have only one textural type.  Current path of experimentation is to create a zone-based layered group of meshes, building up the foundation, body and surface layers of the beard to give it better density and depth.  wish me luck
     

    Both cases are going to be very poly heavy...if you are going for 'extreme' close up level.  Most folks aren't going to want something that heavy all the time...and for many things, it's not really needed.  But yeah, close ups are much more demanding.

    The idea of using displacement (which would be better than bump, because a scar IS an actualy change in the surface) is sound. You can also use control maps for the specular strength...

  • lxlx Posts: 2,994
    mjc1016 said:
     

    So far, I see two places where 3D assets in general are sorely lacking:  Male facial hair, and tattoos.  There are a few serviceable short beards out there, as well as Garibaldi and LAMH, but even the best examples from them are pretty weak tea.  Same with tattoos.  They just don't look real in close-up (I've been a professional tattooist for thirty years, so I know what I'm talking about).

    So, I'm excited to work on fixing both those issues....

    Tattoos are more of a texturing thing than modelling...and if you've been a tattoo artist, then that will be a big plus in upping the level of realism for them, but you will still be limited by the limitations of the mapping.

    I think that has a lot to do with why they don't look real in closeup.... Tattoos aren't on the skin.... they're in it.  The texture and grain of the skin is visibly different until the tattoo is decades old, and the specular strength will be higher than the surrounding materiel, because the tattoo is actually underneath a clear layer of scar, which passes more light the skin around it..  I'm playing around with modeling and bump mapping and displacements, trying to emulate some of these lost properties (modelling a tattoo into the mesh being only practical for extreme closeup)

    Facial hair is another mixed issue of modelling and texturing.  Once again, I have an inside track, since I can use my own beard for reference. It's not quite duck-dynasty worthy, but it's long enough I have to pull it out of the collar of my shirt when I'm getting dressed.  A beard is made up of layers of hair that vary in texture, color, coarseness and shape, which is why fiber-mesh looks wonky and most other attempts just look weak in close-up, since they tend to have only one textural type.  Current path of experimentation is to create a zone-based layered group of meshes, building up the foundation, body and surface layers of the beard to give it better density and depth.  wish me luck
     

    Most of the tattoos I've seen on genesis characters are just flat text or drawings with slightly faded opacity, so that doesn't help. I'm sure there are good ones somewhere that I haven't noticed -I'm so balanced in feedback-

    I'm really curious to see what they're going to do with body hair for G3M. My guess is probably just draw it and do disp or bumps for it, but it'd be fantastic to see something more complicated.

    I remember reading something on the forums awhile back about how other programs use curves for hair that uses a lot less memory, but Daz doesn't support it? I guess if I was going to do it with a mesh at the moment I'd just make two, one for normal distance and one for close ups? 

  • NathNath Posts: 1,983

    I don't know how far I'll get, but this thread may just finally get me focussed enough to try my hand at modelling clothes - no idea how far I'll get, but it'll be fun trying things out :-)

  • lxlx Posts: 2,994

    I need some help with Blender.

    Basically right now I have my vest in a super low poly form which is relatively easy for me to reshape smoothly thanks to a subd modifier. What I want to do is apply the modifier so that I can start adding more detail to the mesh, but I want to still be able to reshape large scale easily.

    I'd hoped that I could duplicate the mesh in it's low poly form, then apply the subd on the original model and then bind the lowpoly dupe as a mesh deform, with the goal that I'd be able to just move the old lowpoly one to get the same smoothed changes. I tried this, even checked tutorials to see I was doing the process correctly, but nothing happens at all. It all binds, but no edits on either model do anything to affect the other.

    Anyone have any idea what I'm doing wrong? Or if there's a better way to do what I'm trying to? Basically I just want to be able to work with the higher def one to add more parts to the mesh but still be able to do big morphs like say opening the vest in a simple, smooth way.

  • lx said:
    mjc1016 said:
     

    So far, I see two places where 3D assets in general are sorely lacking:  Male facial hair, and tattoos.  There are a few serviceable short beards out there, as well as Garibaldi and LAMH, but even the best examples from them are pretty weak tea.  Same with tattoos.  They just don't look real in close-up (I've been a professional tattooist for thirty years, so I know what I'm talking about).

    So, I'm excited to work on fixing both those issues....

    Tattoos are more of a texturing thing than modelling...and if you've been a tattoo artist, then that will be a big plus in upping the level of realism for them, but you will still be limited by the limitations of the mapping.

    I think that has a lot to do with why they don't look real in closeup.... Tattoos aren't on the skin.... they're in it.  The texture and grain of the skin is visibly different until the tattoo is decades old, and the specular strength will be higher than the surrounding materiel, because the tattoo is actually underneath a clear layer of scar, which passes more light the skin around it..  I'm playing around with modeling and bump mapping and displacements, trying to emulate some of these lost properties (modelling a tattoo into the mesh being only practical for extreme closeup)

    Facial hair is another mixed issue of modelling and texturing.  Once again, I have an inside track, since I can use my own beard for reference. It's not quite duck-dynasty worthy, but it's long enough I have to pull it out of the collar of my shirt when I'm getting dressed.  A beard is made up of layers of hair that vary in texture, color, coarseness and shape, which is why fiber-mesh looks wonky and most other attempts just look weak in close-up, since they tend to have only one textural type.  Current path of experimentation is to create a zone-based layered group of meshes, building up the foundation, body and surface layers of the beard to give it better density and depth.  wish me luck
     

    Most of the tattoos I've seen on genesis characters are just flat text or drawings with slightly faded opacity, so that doesn't help. I'm sure there are good ones somewhere that I haven't noticed -I'm so balanced in feedback-

    I'm really curious to see what they're going to do with body hair for G3M. My guess is probably just draw it and do disp or bumps for it, but it'd be fantastic to see something more complicated.

    I remember reading something on the forums awhile back about how other programs use curves for hair that uses a lot less memory, but Daz doesn't support it? I guess if I was going to do it with a mesh at the moment I'd just make two, one for normal distance and one for close ups? 

    Daz supports curves (that's what LAMH and Garibaldi use) but Iray doesn't in its current state.  That's why the fiber hair has to be exported as mesh before it's used with Iray.  As to tattoos, I share the frustration of seeing so many paint-on tats in 3D.  Sometimes it's the ink that most spoils the realism of an otherwise well-done image.

    RawArt has a pretty good tutorial on tattoos at DA, but I suspect you're looking for a more standardizable, in-shop system:  http://rawart3d.deviantart.com/art/Tattoo-on-skin-texturing-329660194?q=gallery:RawArt3d/37253370&qo=

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,432
    Sonja11 said:

    Just went and had a look at Zbrush.  I didn't realize that scuptris was made by Zbrush

    From wikipedia

    In late July 2010, Sculptris inventor Tomas Pettersson joined the Pixologic team (makers of ZBrush), who have taken over Sculptris development.[3] He left Pixologic 'a while' before March 2014.[4]

    Sculptris was not made by Pixologic! Also Sculptris alpha 6, the stable version came out in 2011! So like haven't seen any updates since then...

     

    That's too bad. Its a very intuitive program and very streamlined.  But I am going to save it for another time and focus on learning Hexagon right now since it seems to move easier between platforms.

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511

    yeah I still use hexagon most of the time. It's good for morphs especially because you have to tweak morphs a lot (at least I do), so removing the export/import, export/import portion of the workflow saves a ton of time. And less temporary files to manage.

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 11,272
    edited November 2015

    People have different experience levels and will be using different modeling programs. 

    For beginners, I highly recommend watching some free youtube tutorials for whatever program you choose.  For example, here is a thread with a collection of Hexagon tutorials.  

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/298/hexagon-tutorial-list#latest

    Some more tutorial links are included on the first page of the current thread.  And earlier in this thread, there is a very good example of making the basic shape for a dress by starting with a cylinder and then extracting looped lines along the mesh and resizing each loop then extruding the sleeves.  Thank you J Cade   http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/939565/#Comment_939565

    However, for beginners, I thought it might be useful to explain some very basic modeling concepts that apply to most programs, and along the way point out some reasons why the conforming gloves and "rocketeer" doodles that I posted earlier were low quality (I used the word crappy).  

    FIRST - BEFORE I START - not everything needs to be modeled with geometry.  You can create some effects with the texture and shaders.  Because shaders can be so powerful, the uvmapping will be very important.  If you are a beginner, start with simple mesh.

    Here we go.

    For those of you who have Hexagon, you can send the Genesis 2 male object directly to Hexagon and model your objects to fit its shape.  In some other programs, you may have to export the G2M as an obj file (remember to turn off subdivision before exporting) and then load it in your program.

    The basic modeling process in almost any program will be to start with a primitive shape, add vertexes, move the vertexes around, repeat.  For any modeling program, it is going to be essential to learn the basic tools to insert a shape, select vertexes, lines, and polygons, then move the selections around. You have to know how to add a vertex.  Another common task will be to expand a model by extruding a selected line, polygon, or group of polygons.  Similarly, selecting a line or a loop of lines and extracting lines around it.   And it would all be more convenient if you could do it on one side and the other side automatcally followed (symmetry).  For organic shapes, it would be great if the program could smooth the mesh for you to avoid sharp edges.  Each program has its own tool set that is supposed to make this easier for you.  It is just a matter of getting used to that program's tools.  Furthermore, there is rarely a single correct way to model something.  Instead, there are usually a couple of ways to get similar results.  Just focus on results and you will be fine.

    In the attached pic, I started in Daz Studio, used the File : Send to Hexagon command, and then opened Hexagon to find the loaded figure.  As per the basics above, I have pointed to the menu for inserting the primitive starting shapes. I have inserted a cube.  Notice the menu for selection settings.  Use these to tell Hexagon whether you want to select an individual point (vertex), a line or a polygon face (including groups of them).  Once something is selected, use the manipulation tools to translate, change the scale, or rotate the selection.

     

    Image removed for nudity. Please see this thread for info: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/3279/acceptable-ways-of-handling-nudity

    [Ooops - sorry! - hope this one is better]

     

    In the second pic, I decided to extrude the top face of the cube (without G2M in the scene). I had the selection setting for polygon face, I went to the vertex modeling menu and chose the simple extrusion tool, then used the translate manipulator to extrude the face upwards.

    So, in whatever program you use, you will essentially have the same tasks.  Insert a shape.  Move it around.  Add additional points by extruding, extracting along, or whatever. Select and manipulate those points.  Repeat. Much of modeling is repeating these tasks (and some others).

     

    OK, I am finding the screenshots of Hexagon hard to see so I will use Carrara in subsequent posts - but I am not recommending any particular program.  Hexagon can make a lot of sense because of the bridge, but Blender is free while Hexagon costs $20 or so, I think.  There are plenty of other good options.  Use what you want.

    In the next couple posts I will show some very simple steps to make a crappy tank top (which is not a bad thing to start with - even a crappy tank top can be made better), and then explain what I meant when I said that my conformng gloves and Rocketeer outfit were crappy.  It wasn't just how they looked, it also had to do with the geometry. 

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  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 11,272
    edited November 2015

    OK, I am going to switch the screen shots to Carrara just because I think it is easier to see on the forum.  I am more focused on showing the TYPE of tool than the specific tool within Carrara.  Other modeling programs have similar tools, so find out what they are for the program you choose, but you will be using them in a similar way.

    1) Again, I started by loading the G2M in the program.  I then inserted a simple shape, in this case a cylinder.  Carrara lets me pick the size and shape, so I created it with 3 rows of faces.

    2) Similar to Hexagon, I then used the selection and manipulation tools to move the points of the cylinder to more closely fit the G2M. 

    3) Like Hexagon, I could select an entire loop of lines, then use the scale manipulation tool to widen or narrow that loop.  In addition, most programs will have a symmetry function so that if you make a change to one side, it makes a mirror change on the other side.

    4) Just like we extruded the top face in the hexagon example above, other programs have extrude tools to extend the top of the cylinder.

    5) Then just like the dress example earlier in the thread, most programs allow you to select a "loop" of lines and extract a new line along the mesh.

     

     

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  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 11,272
    edited May 2016

    The process is not just adding shape.  You might also want to delete geometry, or connect some existing geometry.

    - One way to create the straps is to delete the top and use the bridge tool (there may be easier ways but I wanted to illustrate the bridge tool).

    - With symmetry on, a vertex and line can be added to the strap and then the points drawn upward above the shoulders.

    - The mesh is very blocky.  Most programs have a subdivision and smoothing function.  The vertexes can be moved while smoothing is on to more closely match the G2M.

    - Smoothing can then be "converted" so that the additional points appear and can be manipulated further.  (WARNING:  my mesh will already be crappy now.  will discuss edge flow later).  For right now, just illustrating subdivision and convert.

    - And you can see this base mesh on G2M.  This is quick and it fits.  But we will discuss some ways it is less than optimal. 

    -

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  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 11,272
    edited November 2015

    CRAPPY - but why? 

    One reason it is crappy is that it has bad edge flow.  What does that mean?  Well, one indication of bad edge flow is that the polygons around the arm holes and the collar do not form smooth circles in a loop.  So what?  Well, that could make it difficult to create a material zone around the trim, or for morphs, or if the object had sleeves for posing.

    - A pic shows that if you select some faces around the arm hole and hit "Loop" the edge flow becomes vertical rather than circling the arm hole.

    - After some adjustment, this second pic shows some improvement.  However, it still has flaws.  For example, I have highlighted a polygon along the arm hole that could be a problem for edge flow.

    - In contrast, here is the edge flow for the Genesis 2 male.  See how the loop at the arm works?  Unlike the crappy tank top I just threw together, the loop from the arm does not extend down vertically.

    - Here, I made another low poly tank top with better edgeflow and that has geometry for the trim.

    .

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  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 11,272
    edited November 2015

    Now, even the second low poly tank top is flawed, but we are going to forgive that for the moment.  I just want to illustrate a couple of other common modeling features that you might want to use from time to time. 

    - Sometimes, people prefer to model only half of a mesh and then finish the project by mirroring the other side with a duplicate and symmetry command.

    -

     

    - Your modeling program wll then have a function to create the mirror and weld the edge points to create a single symmetrical mesh.

    -

     

    - So far, the focus has been on creating a primitive shape and then manually moving the points around.  Your program will also have functions to lathe, sweep, and extrude a shape according to a line.  For example, here I put in a simple oval, then drew a polyline in a circle.

    - The sweep command swept the oval

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  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 11,272
    edited November 2015

    OK, what is the lesson?  Much of the time, modeling is just a matter of inserting a basic shape, adding additional geometry in the form of extrusions, edge loops, etc., and then manipulating those points to the shape that you want.  Making a mesh to fit the genesis 2 male is really just a matter of patience.

     

    However, there is a difference between a basic mesh that fits and a QUALITY mesh.  During my doodling, and even in the illustrations in this lesson, the meshes could be improved.  Just like writers need to start writing the first draft or nothing ever gets written, a modeler needs to create a first draft.  And just like first drafts need editing, models will need to be further polished.  

     

    So for right now, if you are playing along, continue looking for reference material.  If you are advanced, go all out!  If you are a beginner, find something relatively simple.  Starting next week I plan to choose my first project (probably the undershirt) and then begin my modeling.  None of my doodles so far will be the actual models - they are just concept ideas while I think about my project. 

     

    You can do this!  I bet we can count on the real experts to offer even better advice about quality models. 

    Post edited by Diomede on
  • lxlx Posts: 2,994

    Awesome tutorial, diomede. These are a huge help for beginners.

    This pretty clearly covers where I was up to about a week ago, so I'm really looking forward to the continuing progress.

    -still stuck on my model but I'll try some things today-

  • Great tutorial.  I learned a few things I hadn't figured out yet.  I've heard rumors about there being a thread on either this forum or some other old forum specifically about modeling clothing, but it has since been lost in the black hole of cyber space through forum changes.  I think having this tutorial, and all of the links we have found, on the current forums is a really good idea.  I'm actually surprised that there hasn't been a thread like this just for the purpose of modeling all clothes for us newbies who weren't around in the early DAZ days.  You have a lot of useful information in there.  Thanks for doodling. laugh

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,432

    Thank you!  I almost feel like I am ready to give something easy a go.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,246

    Definitely encouraged me to poke at making clothing at some point...

     

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 11,272
    edited November 2015

    Thanks for the positive feedback.  Even though those meshes were flawed, I hope the tutorial gave some useful information.  I have emphasized researching reference material of various kinds, sharing ideas, and doodling.  Here is a quick example of how reference material can be used in general.  Your modeling program will allow you to load reference images in some of the view panels.  This can be a great aid to modeling.  In Hexagon, the reference images can be loaded by clicking the properties tab in the scene menu and then using the tabs for each view.  In Carrara, the same can be done in the global tab.  The programs can show multiple views while modeling, a great aid!  I'm sure Silo, Blender, etc. have similar capabilities. 

    In the attached, I have rendered outline images of my concept.  These are then loaded in a modeler's view tabs.  Then a mesh can be constructed using the images as the references if I want to create my own custom figure distinct from genesis or genesis 2, then rig, etc.  Obviously, that isn't the purpose of this project.  But if you look earlier in the thread, you will see that Ix loaded the vest pattern in Blender for the model.  Way to go, Ix!

     

    Earlier, I had created and saved a low polygon mesh that is an envelope of the Genesis 2 male.  See how it fits the reference images that resulted from rendering the outlines of my concept doodles?  Having saved the envelope mesh can be a great start for many G2M projects going forward.  Select the feet and shins and delete the rest to start boots.  Select the torso and arms and delete the rest to start a shirt.  Note that in one of the first posts in the thread, there is a link to a free starter mesh.  Again, thank you generous people.

     

    It is good to have a plan.  Use your background research, reference images, and doodling (even with paper and pencil during boring meetings!) to come up with a specific project.  Because in this case we will be modeling directly around the figure, perhaps loading reference images in the view tab is not as necessary, but it is still a great thing to be aware of for the future.

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  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,432

    I didn't know you could import references into Hexagon that will be a great help

     

  • lxlx Posts: 2,994
    diomede said:

    But if you look earlier in the thread, you will see that Ix loaded the vest pattern in Blender for the model. 

    Huh? I didn't load anything; I just glanced at the reference image a few times. This is why I have notes on my progress image like "don't copy me" xD

    To load background images in Blender, look at the properties pane thing in the 3d View (the one that appears and disappears when you press n) and scroll down to Background Images. There's a button there named Add Image. Once you load an image or two there, many options appear. Mess around with them as desired.)

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 11,272

    My bad - and so an even more impressive modeling job.  good start

  • lxlx Posts: 2,994
    edited November 2015
    diomede said:

    My bad - and so an even more impressive modeling job.  good start

    Thanks, although to be honest, it's more about laziness and not wanting to deal with aligning the mesh with a 2d image and g2m and just using him as a guideline.

    After a lot of trial and error, I finally figured out my problem with creating a mesh deform in Blender. The deforming mesh has to completely cover the mesh you want it to adjust (so duplicating the original wasn't working because bits didn't envelope properly) it must have faces, and they must be pointing outwards (and you must remember to hit the bind button.) Probably not helpful to anyone but noting the solution anyway just in case.

    Now that I can actually move the mesh with simpler handles while still applying the subd to get it up to ~G2M level polys, I can get back to working on it.

     

    What are people's thoughts on modelling insides / giving clothing actual thickness? Is it undesirable because of the potential of issues with morphs or some other reason? Or is it perfectly fine to do?

    Post edited by lx on
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