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It's Not Raining Men

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  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,558
    edited October 2015

    I would certainly support a kickstarter produuct. Especially from proven vendors. And most especially if it were sci-fi or military.

    Post edited by Serene Night on
  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,558
    Knittingmommy said:

    As for showing off renders of male specific items in the Galleries by more male oriented artists, I would love to see that.  I get tired of visiting the Gallery and seeing all of the morphed boobs and barely clad females.  I would love to visit and see a nice buff chest with just a smattering of hair who is looking at me with dreamy eyes and a come hither stare.....( I have a few of those I'm working on myself.)  Unfortunately, I think some of the commenters are correct in that, unless they are extremely good, these types of renders don't get the big numbers when it comes to 'likes'.  There are a few, like Mavrosh for example, who consistently get the higher numbers in the galleries when it comes to male renders.   I have serious doubts that things will change.  For now, I just do a happy dance when I do see anything for the males in the shop and, if I can afford it, I buy it.  I am slowly learning to make my own clothing, as well, so someday, I won't have to rely on the sporadic offererings of male clothing.  I can just make it. 

    Cool! I can't wait to see your gallery Knittingmommy and those men's clothing! =-)

     

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,558

    Hah hah! I love the new title of this thread. Good one. =-)

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,886

    I mean, I certainly appreciate that what customers SAY they will buy will often differe remarkably from what they actually buy. And that doesn't require nefarious motives, just, well, few people have the skill to self-examine that deeply.

    People willing to actually chip in, on the other hand...

     

  • mtl1mtl1 Posts: 1,501

    I almost choked on my halloween candy when I saw the new title ;)

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,558
    timmins.william said:

    I mean, I certainly appreciate that what customers SAY they will buy will often differe remarkably from what they actually buy. And that doesn't require nefarious motives, just, well, few people have the skill to self-examine that deeply.

    People willing to actually chip in, on the other hand...

    IF Stonemason announced a kickstarter for a male version of the Rogue sci-fi bodysuit, I would be the first one to buy. I would also pre-order Slosh's military sci-fi suit. Both sound extraudinarily awesome. =-) I would also put my money where my mouth is if Hellfish produced a sci-fi exclusive here.

  • gerterasmusgerterasmus Posts: 287

    I do apologise if my title and some of my comments were rude, but it did get people talking, and maybe get DAZ's marketing department to make a few changes.

    For everyone who said 'make it yourself', believe me, I'd love to try something. But, it is now 2:40 am Saturday night/Sunday morning, and I'm still working. And that's what my average day is like, so I literally don't have time to make it myself.

  • DarkSpartanDarkSpartan Posts: 1,096
    Serene Night said:

    Hah hah! I love the new title of this thread. Good one. =-)

    Yes, that's MUCH better.

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 23,859

    The title is catchy! 

    So far as modeling goes, it's not an easy thing to do and have quality items right out of the gate. Time is money, and I have both Lightwave and Z Brush and to do clothing worth a hoot, I'd have to stop rendering completely, stop writing on my book, stop working on my files, stop...stop ..stop....  So no thanks. I will continue to buy good outfits whether it be male or female and thank those who take the time to do it!

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    Novica said:

    The title is catchy! 

    So far as modeling goes, it's not an easy thing to do and have quality items right out of the gate. Time is money, and I have both Lightwave and Z Brush and to do clothing worth a hoot, I'd have to stop rendering completely, stop writing on my book, stop working on my files, stop...stop ..stop....  So no thanks. I will continue to buy good outfits whether it be male or female and thank those who take the time to do it!

    Modeling is not for everyone and isn't a complete answer...but some things can be done with retexturing.  And that is in the realm of possibility for more people.  It's still not an answer that will solve everything, but it can be part of one.  Granted texture only sets, especially for other's items don't sell very well either, but they are also easier to assemble as freebies.

    There is usually enough variety in the male line to at least provide a basic wardrobe that can be greatly expanded with some good texture addons.

     

  • lx_2807502lx_2807502 Posts: 2,996

    I feel like people are getting hung up on the modelling suggestion as if it's meant to be the only possible solution. That wasn't my intention at all. It also doesn't invalidate the request for more content. Absolutely request that more be made and be given more marketing focus.

    Let's say I really want a pair of pink overalls for G2M, but for some reason no one's made any in any of the shops that I can find. What can I actually do about this? My suggestions would be:

    - Put in a request in the appropriate forum section for someone to make them and hope it was a popular idea.
    - Hire someone to make them for me.
    - Make them myself via modelling a new mesh and either posing it the way I want for one shot manually, or learning how to rig it.
    - Find a similar item and either auto fit or manually reshape and refit it myself.
    - Find a similar item and make a new or recoloured texture for it via an image editor.
    - Make some fun gallery images of a G2M searching for pink overalls - not expecting this would cause the item to be made, but to help show there are people making male renders and wanting to buy male products in general. One person doing this won't make much of a difference. Lots would.
    - Start or request a render contest be started featuring male items.

    If these suggestions are bad, what would others suggest?

  • mtl1mtl1 Posts: 1,501
    lx said:

    I feel like people are getting hung up on the modelling suggestion as if it's meant to be the only possible solution. That wasn't my intention at all. It also doesn't invalidate the request for more content. Absolutely request that more be made and be given more marketing focus.

    Let's say I really want a pair of pink overalls for G2M, but for some reason no one's made any in any of the shops that I can find. What can I actually do about this? My suggestions would be:

    - Put in a request in the appropriate forum section for someone to make them and hope it was a popular idea.
    - Hire someone to make them for me.
    - Make them myself via modelling a new mesh and either posing it the way I want for one shot manually, or learning how to rig it.
    - Find a similar item and either auto fit or manually reshape and refit it myself.
    - Find a similar item and make a new or recoloured texture for it via an image editor.
    - Make some fun gallery images of a G2M searching for pink overalls - not expecting this would cause the item to be made, but to help show there are people making male renders and wanting to buy male products in general. One person doing this won't make much of a difference. Lots would.
    - Start or request a render contest be started featuring male items.

    If these suggestions are bad, what would others suggest?

    Remove the monetary risk by crowdfunding or patreon.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,886

    Yeah, that's why I like crowdfunding, because it's like 'hire someone to make them for me' with a better buy in for, well, people who don't have hundreds of dollars to spend. Win-win

     

  • DarkSpartanDarkSpartan Posts: 1,096

    If I knew how much it would take cash to get a PA that does that sort of thing to make an outfit that I could pack into a character, I would kick the carp out of my Patreon to get it done.

  • KnittingmommyKnittingmommy Posts: 8,191
    edited November 2015
    Serene Night said:
    Knittingmommy said:

    As for showing off renders of male specific items in the Galleries by more male oriented artists, I would love to see that.  I get tired of visiting the Gallery and seeing all of the morphed boobs and barely clad females.  I would love to visit and see a nice buff chest with just a smattering of hair who is looking at me with dreamy eyes and a come hither stare.....( I have a few of those I'm working on myself.)  Unfortunately, I think some of the commenters are correct in that, unless they are extremely good, these types of renders don't get the big numbers when it comes to 'likes'.  There are a few, like Mavrosh for example, who consistently get the higher numbers in the galleries when it comes to male renders.   I have serious doubts that things will change.  For now, I just do a happy dance when I do see anything for the males in the shop and, if I can afford it, I buy it.  I am slowly learning to make my own clothing, as well, so someday, I won't have to rely on the sporadic offererings of male clothing.  I can just make it. 

    Cool! I can't wait to see your gallery Knittingmommy and those men's clothing! =-)

     

    Now that I'm done with my current contest renders (one of which was a male vampire - new user contest), the two male oriented scenes I've working on get moved to the top of the priority list.  They are almost set to start rendering, just a few more tweaks so they could be up in my gallery in the next few days.

    Love the new title!!

    I'm not familiar with Kickstarter.  I had to look it up.  It is a novel concept.

    edit: I forgot to mention that I love the idea of a male only contest!!!

    Post edited by Knittingmommy on
  • j cadej cade Posts: 2,310

    The problem with a kickstarter would be folks would have to agree to buy something sight unseen, and even with a more respected vendor, I'm not sure that  "Hey I'm going to make x male outfit, no you can't see anything, because I'm only going to start it once I have enough people signed up to buy it." would be too popular. Personally, I think that would be a tough sell. Add to that, the PA would be on their own in terms of quality control, distribution (It couldnt be sold through any of the brokers most likely), and advertising (remember not everyone buying stuff at the store visits the forum) And while I'm not sure its impossible, there would be a lot of kinks to work out there.

    Patreon supported stuff might be an idea,but again, it really depends on what people are willing to spend and what they expect. Would some of the esteemed forumites be willing to subsidize an artist for sneak peaks, input,  the occasional smaller freebie, and a promise to make more male/atypical items? (I do think more viable solutions have to include the product being sold at a broker, so folks might have to be willing to support the artist and buy the stuff at the store).

    This is not me discouraging folks from trying to figure out ways to encourage less mainstream items. (Trust me I'm less into the male stuff, but I definitely fit in the loves niche items crowd, I mean I have more renders in my gallery with clothes I draped in blender than conforming).

     

    If anyone does have any Ideas that they think are workable, please lets use this threadas somewhere to brainstorm, rather than the same tired rehash of "make more mens clothes!" "well then, buy more mens clothes!" "I would if they weren't all terrible, what about the ART!" "Sorry I like food!" "you're mean!" "you smell bad!"

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    j cade said:

    "you smell bad!"

    I showered today...

     

  • lx_2807502lx_2807502 Posts: 2,996
    mjc1016 said:
    j cade said:

    "you smell bad!"

    I showered today...

     

    But did you use the female skimpy soap that there are too many varieties of?

  • neweliesnewelies Posts: 18

    Dont really have anything new to add but I am looking forward to more MALE content. I have been checking the site every now and then with nothing but female content.....im not sexist but I want some more content for my dudes to wear..and more characters....and more MORE MORE!!!

  • DarkSpartanDarkSpartan Posts: 1,096
    edited November 2015
    j cade said:

    The problem with a kickstarter would be folks would have to agree to buy something sight unseen, and even with a more respected vendor, I'm not sure that  "Hey I'm going to make x male outfit, no you can't see anything, because I'm only going to start it once I have enough people signed up to buy it." would be too popular. Personally, I think that would be a tough sell. Add to that, the PA would be on their own in terms of quality control, distribution (It couldnt be sold through any of the brokers most likely), and advertising (remember not everyone buying stuff at the store visits the forum) And while I'm not sure its impossible, there would be a lot of kinks to work out there.

    Patreon supported stuff might be an idea,but again, it really depends on what people are willing to spend and what they expect. Would some of the esteemed forumites be willing to subsidize an artist for sneak peaks, input,  the occasional smaller freebie, and a promise to make more male/atypical items? (I do think more viable solutions have to include the product being sold at a broker, so folks might have to be willing to support the artist and buy the stuff at the store).

    This is not me discouraging folks from trying to figure out ways to encourage less mainstream items. (Trust me I'm less into the male stuff, but I definitely fit in the loves niche items crowd, I mean I have more renders in my gallery with clothes I draped in blender than conforming).

     

    If anyone does have any Ideas that they think are workable, please lets use this threadas somewhere to brainstorm, rather than the same tired rehash of "make more mens clothes!" "well then, buy more mens clothes!" "I would if they weren't all terrible, what about the ART!" "Sorry I like food!" "you're mean!" "you smell bad!"

    Patreon for a request link for things and the occasional "freebie" might actually work. Of course, it would depend greatly on what the reward tiers would be and so forth. It would also not preclude sending things to a brokerage.

    On the upside, you can make beta testing a subscription item-- everyone that hands over 'x' dollar-pounds that month gets early access to products being developed, on the expectation that if they find a problem that is actually an issue, then you'll fix it. It could work, but the person running the ship would have to be on top of things, and willing to be their own PR department.

    Oh, and that Dancing slip is very nice. I'll have to get it one of these days for promos.

    Post edited by DarkSpartan on
  • isidornisidorn Posts: 1,601

    It was an ad with V7 in a bikini (or possibly underwear) that made me find DAZ a few months ago and I vastly prefer the female forms over male. So I don't really have a problem with the abundance of "female products" in the store or that they are recieving most of the promoting. So DAZ's current marketing strategy at least worked on me...

    With that said, I recognise the demand for male products. I'm still new and haven't done a lot of renders but even so there's already a couple times I've had to exclude a male from a render because I didn't have anything apropriate to put him in, or simply skip the render completely for the same reason when the male was going to be a central part of it.

    What can be done about the male content shortage has already been said several times here so I won't go into that.

    I'm now expecting to see that male only render contest appear in the near future, and why not with the catchy name "It IS raining men"? And in the spirit of crowdfunding I am more than willing to contribute with $10 to the prize pool.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 33,604
    isidorn said:
     

    I'm now expecting to see that male only render contest appear in the near future, and why not with the catchy name "It IS raining men"? And in the spirit of crowdfunding I am more than willing to contribute with $10 to the prize pool.

    Has thinking cap on.   Watch this space.

  • HeraHera Posts: 1,952
    edited November 2015

    I'm sick of hearing that male stuff won't sell. How can it sell when it's not being made?
    1. the G2M Bot Armor didnt' sell a single item  - well that was not because nobody wanted it but because it was never put out there for us to buy (according to legend it does exist. Just like Prince's black album) Same thing for the G2M Dragontech Ninja or the G2M Retro Scifi Bodysuite or G2M no suite, things I've been waiting for for ages for instance.

    2. So many of us are looking high an low for good SciFi outfits and military outfits and steampunk outfits for G2M but we are not seeing them. Anywhere. Or era specific, like rennaisance or victorian or roman (not military) or ancient egypt. I understand that in the 21th century the male outfit base is small and dull but look at the history. Back in the medieval and rennaisance times the male clothes were outshining the females. And so on.

    And what more - it does get worse! For every year, for every figure there are getting less and less male clothes in the stores. M4 used to have a reasonable selection and variation including quite a bit in the SciFi and the Gothic area. For Genesis - well as SciFi went, you could adapt most of the female outfits and fit them on the men (save for perhaps Freak). Like Jade Assasin http://www.daz3d.com/jade-assassin. But poor G2M was hardly getting anything in the Scifi genre and there was absolutely nothing gothic or steampunk coming his way. And even if it was possible to tweak some of the female things upon him, like the Retro Scifi Bodysuite, it didn't look really there. :-(

     

     

    Post edited by Hera on
  • HeraHera Posts: 1,952

    For instance it would be great to have these for G2M or even better G3M when he decides to make his appearance:
    http://www.daz3d.com/sedition-soldier-for-m4
    http://www.daz3d.com/the-host

    http://www.daz3d.com/coalition-claymore-armor

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,886

    Yeah. I'm going to probably get Bot Armor and work at adapting it to male. And, fair enough -- if female content sells better AND can be reasonably adapted to male figures, then, well, heck, that seems like a respectable compromise.

     

    As for kickstarter... imagine if Stonemason (or whomever) did up some promo sketches of what they were thinking of making. Kickstarter doesn't have to be completely 'sight unseen.' If you go to Kickstarter and look at projects that aren't fully funded, most of them have concept art, videos, and similar.

    Maybe it wouldn't work, but crowdsourcing has really proven itself as a viable path for a lot of people foraying into uncertain products. It has also proven itself to be prone to BS and frustration with unmet goals or outright con artists.

     

    As for Patreon, in a way that's what Wilmap is doing -- all the products are free, but there's a donation button.

     

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,558

    I'm a big fan of Mighty Mestophacles work, and the claymore armor suit and rapier are both great sets. I like sedition soldier m4 too.

  • gbmorphsgbmorphs Posts: 33
    edited November 2015

    The reason male products don't sell as well is because they don't make enough variety. Good lord,  ever guy looks like the 5 guys who came before him. All anybody makes is tshirts, shorts and bad athletic shoes. A lot of the female armor could easily be adapted to the male form, but Daz doesn't care. Put some quality product out there for males. How in the world can you have 8000 dresses for females and no fireman, cop / swat, real military unitorm. How about some futuristic and or fantasy ancient armor. Something that actually fits and you can customize. What we get is quick stuff that doesn't fit well and ist hard to customize. I have the money to spend, but no products to spend it on. The fact that there is no G3 Male is a not only a shame but is stupid. It shouldn't take a year to get a new male figure after the female version. The fact they NEVER speak to these issues says even more. Sadly, we don't have many other choices.

    Post edited by gbmorphs on
  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 33,604
    edited November 2015

     

    As for Patreon, in a way that's what Wilmap is doing -- all the products are free, but there's a donation button.

     

    Not really.  Most prolific freebie providers have a PayPal donate button on their websites or even their ShareCG accounts.

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • KnittingmommyKnittingmommy Posts: 8,191
    Chohole said:
    isidorn said:
     

    I'm now expecting to see that male only render contest appear in the near future, and why not with the catchy name "It IS raining men"? And in the spirit of crowdfunding I am more than willing to contribute with $10 to the prize pool.

    Has thinking cap on.   Watch this space.

    Think hard, Chohole.  I'd be willing to donate a $10 gift certificate to the pool as well.

  • MistaraMistara Posts: 38,675

    store new stuff so boring.  good thing gianni looks so good nekkie

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