Daz Studio Pro BETA - version 4.9.0.21!

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  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 8,540

    I've installed it; I didn't log in, as I'm not interested in doing, I was interested in the speed increase in IRAY - I'm showing about an 8% increase; nothing great but any increase is welcome.

    Other than avoiding the log in, I'm not seeing anything different, except the attached; didn't seem to be anything missing.

    I saved a file in 4.9 and loaded it into 4.8 and it rendered ok.

     

    missing files.jpg
    604 x 733 - 22K
  • SkirikiSkiriki Posts: 4,951
    edited October 2015

    I'll just state this for the record:

    I did download it, I did install it. I did open it, I entered my login, I loaded a figure, started a test render. And then I came here to see what was the big deal and flipped my ****. Which remains flipped.

    I didn't see this question answered, though, so let's keep it at one lousy single question:

    Is it possible to write a malicious DS script or plugin that hijacks account information, such as login and password, and have it forward information to third party?

    Please do not speculate how such script might find its way to PC and how stupid user must be to run such. Assume that poop happens, because it always does. I did not expect my PSU to blow up, but here we are, 150 bucks poorer. So.

    Is this feasible?

    Post edited by Skiriki on
  • rbtwhizrbtwhiz Posts: 1,618
    lee_lhs said:

    Well, I guess what I'm missing is a list of the "recent purchases", like in DIM. Right now, all that I see in Smart content is tons of subcategories with hundreds of icons in it, but if I wanted to install just my newly bought content, I would have to search for each item according to my order. In DIM, I am able to do a simple list sort and my newly bought items show up on top.

    Advanced Filtering, much like it exists in Install Manager today, is already on the short list for the 4.9 general release. Sorting is also on the short list of improvements, albeit lower.

    -Rob

  • Skiriki said:

    I have some thoughts about some potential solutions for those of you that want to manage your content like it's still 1995 ;) , I'll discuss it with the development team and see what their thoughts are and if it could be something we include either in this release or a future release.

    PLEASE. Make it a friggin' tick-box in Preferences or something, "Yes I want to handle my content like a baboon from 1995", just let us do it the hard way if we're that bone-headed to do it. Because some of us are, for a reason.

    LOL Yea I want to move it around anyways and I will continue to do so. Mybe I dont want it on drive C....and maybe later on I might not even want it on D after I buy a new 10 TB drive. But I sure don't want it on C now that Micro something has tried to take over that Drive....and....Yea I'll run it on a cloud but it will be within my own network just in case Micro something or Daz messes up something along the way......lol. Maybe I'll even put it on another computer for that matter and have this one access it that way. And all this just because people want to play online games all day (get an android tablet like I bought my wife for that!). Basically I agree let me move my files around where I want them....its almost like messing with the Windows Registery, I'm not supposed to but I do.At the end of the day I'll still be scratchin my record player because this computer was the one that topped them all till now 2015. Guess I'll but a new one for windows 10 and Daz studio 5.....Lord knows I will.

  • jakibluejakiblue Posts: 5,924

    Question: with the new encrypted files, does this mean I will no longer be able to open a .duf file in a text editor, fix a file pathing problem and save it - thereby ensuring I can use the product until the update comes in?

  • SpottedKittySpottedKitty Posts: 6,507
    Leana said:
    DAZ_Rawb said:

    I have some thoughts about some potential solutions for those of you that want to manage your content like it's still 1995 ;)

    I have 10 years worth of content from various stores and freebies sites, that I organized in a way that is logical to me over the years. I have no intention to spend hours adding metadata in the database so that "smart" content can see more than half of it and has meaningful tags on the half it acknowledges, or re-categorizing everything so that whatever appears in the category system makes sense to me.

    Me too. I'll happily agree that the new system would be ideal for someone who's just starting out in D|S, or doesn't have a huge content collection yet, or doesn't already know how the content files should be arranged in the various Content and Runtime folders.

    That doesn't describe me. The original Smart Content/CMS system would have massively increased the work I'd have to do to return my content to the state I already had it in, and the new Connect system has the same fundamental flaw, which for me is a showstopper.

  • DAZ_RawbDAZ_Rawb Posts: 589
    Skiriki said:

    I'll just state this for the record:

    I did download it, I did install it. I did open it, I entered my login, I loaded a figure, started a test render. And then I came here to see what was the big deal and flipped my ****. Which remains flipped.

    I didn't see this question answered, though, so let's keep it at one lousy single question:

    Is it possible to write a malicious DS script or plugin that hijacks account information, such as login and password, and have it forward information to third party?

    Please do not speculate how such script might find its way to PC and how stupid user must be to run such. Assume that poop happens, because it always does. I did not expect my PSU to blow up, but here we are, 150 bucks poorer. So.

    Is this feasible?

    DS Script doesn't have any methods it could call to get any of this information, so it is safe from that. As far as plugins are concerned there isn't any API call they can make to access that information.

     

    Since plugins run in the same memory space as the Studio executable an extremely vectored attack could potentially reverse engineer the in-memory encryption used on your saved password if you selected "remember me". It would also have to directly link to networking libraries because Studio also doesn't have API calls to make network connections. A more feasible attack however would be for an attacker to just install a keylogger that logs keypresses and looks for things that look like email addresses and passwords, it's definitley an easier way to go if you have people willing to install random executables from the internet. The keylogger approach will pick up passwords entered in to a web browser as well and definitely exists in the wild which makes for an excellent reason to make sure to keep all of your software and OS up to date on the latest patches.

  • DAZ_RawbDAZ_Rawb Posts: 589

    Skiriki said:

    DAZ_Rawb said:

    I have some thoughts about some potential solutions for those of you that want to manage your content like it's still 1995 ;) , I'll discuss it with the development team and see what their thoughts are and if it could be something we include either in this release or a future release.

    PLEASE. Make it a friggin' tick-box in Preferences or something, "Yes I want to handle my content like a baboon from 1995", just let us do it the hard way if we're that bone-headed to do it. Because some of us are, for a reason.

    LOL Yea I want to move it around anyways and I will continue to do so. Mybe I dont want it on drive C....and maybe later on I might not even want it on D after I buy a new 10 TB drive. But I sure don't want it on C now that Micro something has tried to take over that Drive....and....Yea I'll run it on a cloud but it will be within my own network just in case Micro something or Daz messes up something along the way......lol. Maybe I'll even put it on another computer for that matter and have this one access it that way. And all this just because people want to play online games all day (get an android tablet like I bought my wife for that!). Basically I agree let me move my files around where I want them....its almost like messing with the Windows Registery, I'm not supposed to but I do.At the end of the day I'll still be scratchin my record player because this computer was the one that topped them all till now 2015. Guess I'll but a new one for windows 10 and Daz studio 5.....Lord knows I will.

    An improvement made to Daz Connect is that as long as content is installed in the data/cloud directory on any mapped location it will find it, so if you shuffle everything from C to D (or to G), all of the content will keep working. While you can't currently shuffle the files around and have them continue to work in smart content, you can move the product directories around to different drives in order to manage your drive space.

  • Arcane Von OblivionArcane Von Oblivion Posts: 149
    edited October 2015
    DAZ_Rawb said:

    Skiriki said:

    DAZ_Rawb said:

    I have some thoughts about some potential solutions for those of you that want to manage your content like it's still 1995 ;) , I'll discuss it with the development team and see what their thoughts are and if it could be something we include either in this release or a future release.

    PLEASE. Make it a friggin' tick-box in Preferences or something, "Yes I want to handle my content like a baboon from 1995", just let us do it the hard way if we're that bone-headed to do it. Because some of us are, for a reason.

    LOL Yea I want to move it around anyways and I will continue to do so. Mybe I dont want it on drive C....and maybe later on I might not even want it on D after I buy a new 10 TB drive. But I sure don't want it on C now that Micro something has tried to take over that Drive....and....Yea I'll run it on a cloud but it will be within my own network just in case Micro something or Daz messes up something along the way......lol. Maybe I'll even put it on another computer for that matter and have this one access it that way. And all this just because people want to play online games all day (get an android tablet like I bought my wife for that!). Basically I agree let me move my files around where I want them....its almost like messing with the Windows Registery, I'm not supposed to but I do.At the end of the day I'll still be scratchin my record player because this computer was the one that topped them all till now 2015. Guess I'll but a new one for windows 10 and Daz studio 5.....Lord knows I will.

    An improvement made to Daz Connect is that as long as content is installed in the data/cloud directory on any mapped location it will find it, so if you shuffle everything from C to D (or to G), all of the content will keep working. While you can't currently shuffle the files around and have them continue to work in smart content, you can move the product directories around to different drives in order to manage your drive space.

     

    Cool! Now if I can only remember I have to press enter twice after a post to have it "quote" right...

     

    edit nope still didnt work the way I wanted it to

     

    Post edited by Arcane Von Oblivion on
  • gregbogregbo Posts: 39

    I am one of "those" silent customers who read the message boards but never post. This once, I feel the need to voice my stance as an ongoing active customer who (like many others) has invested a great deal of money into the products DAZ and its PAs create. Being my first (and perhaps only) post, I want to be as direct and clear as possible... If you go forward with DRM encryption, I will never spend one more dime with your company. Not one.

    I fully understand the frustration piracy is and its effects. I, too, work in an industry in which digital goods are a primary source of income. However, as others have mentioned, it has been proven repeatedly that DRM has little effect on and often attracts pirates (for the challenge). Also, DRM-Strangling your legitimate customers causes ill-will, frustration, and creates more pirates than it deters. Your customers are practically grabbing you by the shoulders and shaking you saying "WE DON'T WANT THIS". Listen to your customers. If you don't, trying to regain the customers you lose might prove a challenge your not up to.

    If DRM encryption at DAZ becomes a reality, I will be instantly cancelling my Platinum Club membership and will not make one more purchase here.

  • Thought I would add Vince's response from another thread.

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/934568/#Comment_934568

  • SkirikiSkiriki Posts: 4,951
    edited October 2015
    DAZ_Rawb said:

    DS Script doesn't have any methods it could call to get any of this information, so it is safe from that. As far as plugins are concerned there isn't any API call they can make to access that information.

    Since plugins run in the same memory space as the Studio executable an extremely vectored attack could potentially reverse engineer the in-memory encryption used on your saved password if you selected "remember me". It would also have to directly link to networking libraries because Studio also doesn't have API calls to make network connections. A more feasible attack however would be for an attacker to just install a keylogger that logs keypresses and looks for things that look like email addresses and passwords, it's definitley an easier way to go if you have people willing to install random executables from the internet. The keylogger approach will pick up passwords entered in to a web browser as well and definitely exists in the wild which makes for an excellent reason to make sure to keep all of your software and OS up to date on the latest patches.

    Thank you. This is definitely more settling than anything told to me so far; it is one thing off my list for flipping my stuff.

    Now, about letting us install stuff to customized Windows-side folders like smelly grunting troglodytes from 1995 -- please. Do that. A whole lot of us artsy types are, bluntly put, neuroatypical, and the way we visualize the world can be quirky and different indeed. I do my install the way I do it because my mind works the way it does (can I at least get credit for using DIM and its sorting power?), and no amount of legit/less legit medication is going to change it. I am like 100% certain that you can find some clever way for that, and reminding, people who do it aren't afraid of extra work it causes them. They are already doing it, and apparently not complaining, 'cause they're used to debugging their own stuff, so let them. They will continue not-bugging-your-ZenDesk, if they're allowed to do this.

    Edit: I am also reading that PCI_DSS_v3-1.pdf, so linkage to it did not go in vain. I wasn't kidding.

    Post edited by Skiriki on
  • DAZ_JonDAZ_Jon Posts: 561
    edited October 2015
    lee_lhs said:
    DAZ_Jon said:
    lee_lhs said:

    To download, simply double click on the item you want to download. But there's no way to batchdownload things. This is rather annoying fot someone like me, who wants all of the bought content on disk, rather than cherry picking for whatever I'm working on. However, the new feature is making installation/deinstallation easy. I haven't figured out how categorizing is supposed to work in this, but if you right-click on the icons, you have various options available, including a direct link to the Readme-file at the DAZ-Page.

    You can actually queue up products to install. If you multiselect (shift click, ctrl click, command click depending on your OS) to select a bunch of products, and then right click and hit install, it will grab them all. So you can just set a bunch to download and walk away while it goes instead of doing it one at a time.

    Well, I guess what I'm missing is a list of the "recent purchases", like in DIM. Right now, all that I see in Smart content is tons of subcategories with hundreds of icons in it, but if I wanted to install just my newly bought content, I would have to search for each item according to my order. In DIM, I am able to do a simple list sort and my newly bought items show up on top.

    edit: ignore this, Rob w addressed it and said it is coming.

    Post edited by DAZ_Jon on
  • atticanneatticanne Posts: 3,009

    I posted this in another thread at approximately !0:15 this morning.  It apparently was overlooked in the flurry of consolidating and closing threads.

    "How will this affect those of us who have 32-bit?  What about the Product files?  Can I still find the product in the list, click Create New Category, and Studio place all of the product's items together in one category in my Content Library?  If someone tries 4.9 and doesn't like it, how much of it can be rolled back to 4.8?

    I am not a gamer.  I am opposed to the cloud and encryption.  I gave up on Smart Content a long time ago.  I have already started diversifying my spending."

  • MurgatroydMurgatroyd Posts: 1,140

    Still need to read through most of the thread, but what I've read so far of the FAQ about Daz Connect is raising all sorts of "oh HELL no" red flags for me.

  • NyghtfallNyghtfall Posts: 512
    DAZ_Rawb said:

    I have some thoughts about some potential solutions for those of you that want to manage your content like it's still 1995 ;)

    So now you're equating our preference for using our modern OS's own file system with being a bunch of tech dinosaurs?

  • TastigerTastiger Posts: 76
    edited October 2015

    Hmm, I seem to remember back in '98 or '99 of raising the issue of some sort of standarized naming convention for content and the answer:-

    "na - will never happen, vendors like their vanity folders" - how things change.

    Don't really think this will change a lot for me - I'm basically Carrara and Poser so I have been disheartened as of late with content being available to me, however I was considering perhaps looking at D|S just so I could use the new figures, however I have my content setup that may be 1995, (I actually find that comment to be condescending) but it suits my workflow and will keep it that way. So don't think I will bother with D|S

    The cloud, I have to agree usually means extra data used and not all of us have unlimited bandwidth.

    All this is just enough to tip the scales and get me to slip away quietly into the night... and I've been here since before the first ever Poser freebie.

    Post edited by Tastiger on
  • TheKDTheKD Posts: 1,255
    Nyghtfall said:
    DAZ_Rawb said:

    I have some thoughts about some potential solutions for those of you that want to manage your content like it's still 1995 ;)

    So now you're equating our preference for using our modern OS's own file system with being a bunch of tech dinosaurs?

    God forbid we actually want our directories to be clean and make sense, instead of just appearing to be clean in one program right? :P

  • At least he has some thoughts on how to fix this for us. :) He can call me a dinosaur.. I've been called worse. LOL As long as I can have new Connect content and still manage it "like it's 1995" (or Oct. 2015). :)

  • TheKDTheKD Posts: 1,255
    edited October 2015

    At least he has some thoughts on how to fix this for us. :) He can call me a dinosaur.. I've been called worse. LOL As long as I can have new Connect content and still manage it "like it's 1995" (or Oct. 2015). :)

    I still hack all my OS and disable everything I can, like the XP days when we didn't even have a dual core yet. I want all my PC power and ram going toward rendering and simulation, I don't want 3049853409583 useless databases and license servers running. 

    Hell, if companies would get with the times, and ditch the old dinosaur pay for OS ways and supported linux like houdini does, windows wouldn't even be on my damn computer at all :P

    Post edited by TheKD on
  • This dinosaur is an unhappy dinosaur. I download using the product library to a USB stick when I am ashore and have borrowed wifi. Then I take my USB stick back to my boat and install to my computer, into an installation folder. My content is then amalgamated, renamed if necessary and then put into my DS library WHERE I WANT IT. If that makes me a control freaking dinosaur so be it. But if you fullas carry on with this DRM bs, I will be another goodbye, outa here. My mobile data (of which I have used way too much reading this whole thread on my phone) is way too precious to go down this bs road. 

  • SkirikiSkiriki Posts: 4,951
    Nyghtfall said:
    DAZ_Rawb said:

    I have some thoughts about some potential solutions for those of you that want to manage your content like it's still 1995 ;)

    So now you're equating our preference for using our modern OS's own file system with being a bunch of tech dinosaurs?

    This is where I'm noting that in October 2015, I have used what used to be called "MS-DOS Prompt" and now renamed as "Command Prompt" to fix a problem in a modern OS, mostly because for some reason there's this awful push to modernize that OS (Win 7 Ultimate which has plenty of lifespan left) to Windows 10 (which I consider a stillborn of an OS at this stage). For some reason I am not going to let it happen, but updates just keep trying to sneak it in, and it just happens that a little .bat is what doc ordered to keep that off my system.

    If this makes me a person who was around when, oh, the public segments of internet began to happen, and who used command-line FTP and rsh and telnet and Gopher, so effin' be it. Because I am. Because that also means I remember the time when my ENTIRE COUNTRY lost connection to the rest of the world in mid-1990s for three days, when a cable broke between Finland and Sweden, and I also know the agony of using 1200/2400/9600/14.4K/36.6K modem to connect to the internet, and I also know what's it like when every single second/bit of data costs you actual money, and you're sharing that feeble connection with three users.

    There has been several attempts at making a database-based file systems, and pretty much all of them are dead in water, for a reason. Because user experience is not just hard data, it is about user experience. People. Like to. OWN. Things. Sense of ownership, sense of control over things they own. We handle virtual goods, knowing where that stuff goes is like 100% about being in control of our virtual goodies. I will cop out to the fact that I like being in control of stuff I use; goodness, it is about this close that I don't wear a leather dominatrix outfit and mask and wave a whip whenever I sysadmin stuff. But I suppose using Linux from command line over SSH is close enough for that.

    So yeah, compare me to a dinosaur, but just remember that us dinosaurs have seen quite a lot, and in some cases, they also built this network system from ground up. And some dinosaurs think that maybe this idea is not even mammal-level good idea, and needs work to reach even Therapsid-level of idea.

    tl;dr -- I am not opposed to change (people who have seen me know I can go all cheer about new stuff), but I'm opposed to senseless changes that have been proven to be problematic and user-unfriendly. You got neat ideas, but they need more work. I've seen massive migrations because of drastic, unwelcome changes. Listen to your userbase. Please.

  • NyghtfallNyghtfall Posts: 512
    edited October 2015

    But if you fullas carry on with this DRM bs, I will be another goodbye, outa here. My mobile data (of which I have used way too much reading this whole thread on my phone) is way too precious to go down this bs road. 

    I've saved up $300 for a new 980 Ti that I was going to upgrade to.  It's going to something else now.  I canceled my PC+ membership earlier today.

    Post edited by Nyghtfall on
  • DAZ_RawbDAZ_Rawb Posts: 589

    This dinosaur is an unhappy dinosaur. I download using the product library to a USB stick when I am ashore and have borrowed wifi. Then I take my USB stick back to my boat and install to my computer, into an installation folder. My content is then amalgamated, renamed if necessary and then put into my DS library WHERE I WANT IT. If that makes me a control freaking dinosaur so be it. But if you fullas carry on with this DRM bs, I will be another goodbye, outa here. My mobile data (of which I have used way too much reading this whole thread on my phone) is way too precious to go down this bs road. 

    Fetching offline packages are a feature that will be implemented soon, so you can fetch your products ashore onto a USB stick and bring them back to the boat. 

     

    Shuffling file around is a bit more difficult, I tried some simple solutions today and they didn't quite work but there could be some changes we could make to Daz Studio to make that work. We will keep investigating and see what we can come up with.

  • SixDsSixDs Posts: 2,155

    "like smelly grunting troglodytes from 1995"

    Well, he didn't go quite that far, Skiriki, but yea. :)

    I must say that I got quite a chuckle out of the remark when it was made. It is a not uncommon sort of retort by those reacting to objections to "new ideas" in the computer industry. Of course, this whole "Cloud" thing is not an new idea at all. It is a very old one, which is why I chuckled at the remark. I remember quite well when all data was centrally stored and accessed remotely, since terminals and even the early PCs lacked storage capacity. It was a necessity. Of course, we didn't have some shiny new marketing term to describe the concept, but it was pretty much "Cloud" storage - it didn't matter where the data was physically stored as long as you could access it. (I actually prefer the term "Fog" over "Cloud", since I believe it is more accurate) However, as PCs gained ever-larger hard drives, the paradigm shifted, with much data being stored locally on each computer. By the magical 1995, the transition to local storage was largely complete. Today, with local storage capacities exceeding by leaps and bounds what sysadmins could even imagine back in the day, the need for remote storage is less than it ever was. Still, you pays your money and takes your choice. For those who think that I'll be better off embracing the new old paradigm, thank you very much for thinking of me, but I'll keep my local drives and organize my data the way I like so I know exactly where it is. It works for me. If that means I'm stuck in 1995, well, better that than being stuck in 1985 and pretending you're not.

  • SnowSultanSnowSultan Posts: 2,295

    I have some thoughts about some potential solutions for those of you that want to manage your content like it's still 1995 ;)

    Cute. Maybe the reason why I've been sorting my 3D files for fifteeen years is because I want to be able to FRIGGIN' FIND THEM. A few years ago when I did a fresh install of Studio, I did try Smart Content and couldn't find a damn thing. Vanity folders up the yin-yang, props buried with clothing in the People folders, and half of my content not even containing metadata at all. It was nuts.

    I know we can turn off DAZ Connect at the moment, but in 18 months when the Genesis 4 female comes out and we buy Zev0's morphs and the MFD for the fourth time, Connect is apparently going to be installing it where it wants and we won't be able to move it. That's a problem.

     

    2) Powerpose.  You still haven't updated this plug-in since Studio 3.??? Come on folks, I would have expected you to step up and 'lift' my templates for at least G3F.  A simple asking here might surprise you....

    I'm still hosting seam guides for DAZ's products on my own webspace. Don't hold your breath for an official Powerpose update.

     

  • DAZ_Rawb said:

    This dinosaur is an unhappy dinosaur. I download using the product library to a USB stick when I am ashore and have borrowed wifi. Then I take my USB stick back to my boat and install to my computer, into an installation folder. My content is then amalgamated, renamed if necessary and then put into my DS library WHERE I WANT IT. If that makes me a control freaking dinosaur so be it. But if you fullas carry on with this DRM bs, I will be another goodbye, outa here. My mobile data (of which I have used way too much reading this whole thread on my phone) is way too precious to go down this bs road. 

    Fetching offline packages are a feature that will be implemented soon, so you can fetch your products ashore onto a USB stick and bring them back to the boat. 

     

    Shuffling file around is a bit more difficult, I tried some simple solutions today and they didn't quite work but there could be some changes we could make to Daz Studio to make that work. We will keep investigating and see what we can come up with.

    Hmmm, I get the feeling you are listening, actually taking on board what your customers are saying and I really appreciate it. 

    So here's my bottom line. I want to be able to download an actual product, take it back to my actual boat, put it on my actual computer and install it where I actually want it. I do not want my computer to have to phone home, I just want to be able to enjoy my hobby with as little grief as possible, in my own way and at my own leisure. With no internet apart from the downloading. 

  • VhardamisVhardamis Posts: 574

    Question: What is this "Lost and Found" directory I have in Smart content now? It's got quite a large selction of random items in it from Cameras and lights to wardrobe, actors, and props. Are these just items that havent been flagged into the new set up? Will they be fixed and moved by D|S once they are ?

  • hphoenixhphoenix Posts: 1,324

    With all the features that people have been asking for......Physics, Better Animation Tools, Properly updated documentation, and more.....this is what they give us.

    DRM and enforced structured 'smart' content.

    And with so many on the forums pointing out the problems involved with these 'benefits', they keep pushing them like they were a gift from the gods.

     

    So what if at some point the license server crashes?  What if DAZ folds?  Will all that post 4.9 content become unusable?  What if I need to reinstall after that from a backup copy?

    Or maybe my account gets corrupted.  Pre-4.9, I could just use my backed up DIM files.  Couldn't use DIM itself, obviously, but that's a minor inconvenience.  But with 4.9 and on, since it can't authenticate, I lose all that content.

     

    I just finished burning a few BD-R discs with my DIM files for backup.  Glad I did, now....

     

    If this goes live in 4.9, I won't be upgrading, nor will I renew my PC+.....nor will I be shopping at the DAZ store, unless there is still an option to download unencrypted DIM files for offline install and usage.  A shame, really.  I was finally getting the hang of content creation and was looking into turning my dev skills toward plugin creation.

     

  • StezzaKararaStezzaKarara Posts: 4,872
    DAZ_Rawb said:

    I have some thoughts about some potential solutions for those of you that want to manage your content like it's still 1995 ;)

    sounds good.. seeing DAZ is treating Carrara like it's still 1995

This discussion has been closed.