Daz Studio Pro BETA - version 4.9.0.21!

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Comments

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    Gr00vus said:

    Given that the FAQ clearly states that future releases will only be available via cloud with DRM from within Studio, I think you could say the answer will be "no it won't be optional, and no you won't be able to use DIM and zips" relatively soon if there's no change. 

    I don't like the sound of this DAZ Connect system. It's extra complexity. Can I just not use it, in the same way I don't use Smart Content?

    You can keep using everything you have exactly as you use it now. 

    That doesn't answer my question about DAZ Connect. Do you mean it's entirely optional, and the current DIM-and-zips content download system will remain

    It specifically answers your question. I am not going to make promisses about the future. 

     

    It won't be optional as of when? And for what?

    And that was not the question that I answered. 

  • SnowSultanSnowSultan Posts: 1,984

    "If you move those files around there is no easy way to figure out what files went where so you would lose the ability to update/uninstall/repair from within Daz Connect. "

    Thank you. That is BAD, but I'm glad to at least know what I'm in for.

     

     you should sort it using the database sorting options. Additional functionality has been added in 4.9 to make this sorting easier. 

    Could you point me to an explanation of these new features or describe them in a little more detail? I'd like to know about what can be done before I upgrade. 

     

    Thanks for the replies so far. I'm sure this is going to be a tiring couple of days for you and other DAZ staff.

     

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    SimonJM said:

    Products available is available for download. So yes, you will have to be connected to the Internet to know what you can download and will not send or receive anything unless you tell Daz Studio to log in. The same is true of "Product Updates"

    It has nothing to do with what content you have installed. 

    One of the concerns I have is with network-enabled 'things': what they do if a) no network (for whatever reason); b) flaky network (again, for whatever reason); c) what they do when in 'offline mode'.  I'm old enough to have seen some truly bad examples, so I hope that will no be the case here!

    No network, means you can not download new content. (Same as it is now.) 

    No Network means you can not update your content. (Same as it is now.)

    Flaky network means problems with the above two. 

    Daz Studio does not need to be online to work. It will allow you to use any content you have installed to your login. 

  • SyndarylSyndaryl Posts: 515
    DAZ_Rawb said:
     

    Texture files along with all files that aren't specific to Daz software are unencrypted when they are installed so you shouldn't have any problems getting to textures or other files. Interestingly, this is not the first time that Daz specific content has been encrypted, the script files have been encrypted for years already.

    And I've frankly been very unhappy about that since the very beginning. I am betting, however, that there aren't very many programmers here to complain about it.

    I get into the .DUF files far more often than the texture files to edit them. Can we at least get access to them through the DAZ script editor? Make it a node-at-a-time-based view or something so they can't be copy-pasted out of the program. It'll still make me really irritated, because I use some industrial strength code editing tools and I won't be able to do that any more, but at least it won't lock me out entirely.

    I fix UVs, I mass rename or reorganize morph channel names across multiple files, basically I hack my stuff. Part of the attraction of the format is that it's accessible and I can do this to get what I want. And it's been getting more accessible.

     

    And then WHAM - big steel door slammed shut in my face, even though the license I bought these under gave me permission to hack crap up for my own purposes.

  • SyndarylSyndaryl Posts: 515

    The exporter still being available is a ridiculous argument that your files are still somehow accessible, by the way.

    I've got a half-written DUF importer for Blender that is now, apparently, going to be complete garbage because I'll loose access to the DUF files. I have the mesh imported, and I was working on the weightmapping for general weighted models (G3F and clothing), but that's all pointless effort now.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 8,328
    Zev0 said:

    Just to add something here. These days products are being uploaded to warez and torrents the SAME day as it is released! It is actually rediculous. So if this cloud DRM system delays the ability to do that even by a few days or eliminate it entirely, then I am all for it.

    Sounds like an inside job!  (jk) cheeky

  • vwranglervwrangler Posts: 3,080
    edited October 2015

    I apologize if this is retreading territory already well covered and covered again, but I want to be sure I understand what's happening.

    1. Studio 4.9 will have Daz Connect.

    2. In order to use your Daz-purchased content within Studio, once 4.9 has been issued, you will need to use Daz Connect at least once to generate your unique user key.

    3. If desired, you can manage downloads, updates and organization through Daz Connect. This is the only way Daz Connect will be able to tell if an item has been updated.

    4. If preferred, at least for the near term, you can either download content through DIM or manually from the product library, once the latter feature has been enabled. Daz Connect will still need somehow to check its user key to make sure you have purchased something legitimately, but otherwise, if you want to use DIM or the product library to download and reorganize your content, that will still work for the time being.

    5. If you do reorganize your content, Daz Connect will be unable to tell if an item has any sort of update.

    6. Daz Connect will be unable to do anything with content from other brokerages.

    7. For newer content, in the vaguely near term, the only way to download some items and activate them in Studio will be through Daz Connect.

    I will admit to being somewhat confused as to how steps 4 and 5 can work together -- will DIM somehow check with the Daz Connect server for the user key? -- but is that an accurate picture of what will happen overall?

     

     

    Post edited by vwrangler on
  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526
    edited October 2015

    future releases will only be available via cloud with DRM from within Studio

    is it true or not?  hope to get clear yes or no answer.  I understand so  from FAQ.

    I do not  need to ask about product which I have gotten already from daz shop by DIM or downloaded as zip manulaly.

    if DAZ  plan to offer new contents  by DRM only,

    it almost same meanig, for me, DAZ  force user to use DRM . 

    there will be new contents which can be used for  new ds only. as same as iray product have no meaning ds 32 bit ,.  then  afer all need to migrate my data . if I hope to get new product. for new ds.

    And  how about up-date  prodcut ?  Can I up-date product as same as before, without cloud or Connect wihtin studio?

     just show time table, when we need to use DRM to get new release prodcut? 

    OR I can install all product which will be released by DAZ without DRM?

    Post edited by kitakoredaz on
  • DavidGBDavidGB Posts: 539
    Syndaryl said:
    DAZ_Rawb said:
     

    Texture files along with all files that aren't specific to Daz software are unencrypted when they are installed so you shouldn't have any problems getting to textures or other files. Interestingly, this is not the first time that Daz specific content has been encrypted, the script files have been encrypted for years already.

    And I've frankly been very unhappy about that since the very beginning. I am betting, however, that there aren't very many programmers here to complain about it.

    I get into the .DUF files far more often than the texture files to edit them. Can we at least get access to them through the DAZ script editor? Make it a node-at-a-time-based view or something so they can't be copy-pasted out of the program. It'll still make me really irritated, because I use some industrial strength code editing tools and I won't be able to do that any more, but at least it won't lock me out entirely.

    I fix UVs, I mass rename or reorganize morph channel names across multiple files, basically I hack my stuff. Part of the attraction of the format is that it's accessible and I can do this to get what I want. And it's been getting more accessible.

     

    And then WHAM - big steel door slammed shut in my face, even though the license I bought these under gave me permission to hack crap up for my own purposes.

     

    +1

    As I said before, I spend quite a lot of time opening (usualy) data .dsf files and occasionally duf files in a text editor to find and correct bugs/faults (and rarely texture pathnames), customize, enhance or re-purpose for my own use. In fact i'd say that since 2004 I've spent more time with a TextPad window open checking/editing cr2s, pz2s, pp2s, .ds, .dsf and .duf files than I've had Poser and DS open actually creating and rendering. I will not buy products where I'm locked out of this.

    Also I will not rely on DRM content for 3D or anything else after the number of times I've been burnt by DRMed music and ebooks.

    And, as said, with loads of content from multiple sources in multiple filetypes/formats, Smart Content and its abilities are useless to me.

    I note the repeated, carefully worded and thus not-answering answers.

    Let me be as precise in the question:

    Will future, new DAZ store content be available only in DAZ Connect form? If so, will it be possible for the user to move the user-facing files around in their computer filing system to different actual filing system folders to continue arranging their files that way rather than using Smart Content or DS catgeories?

    Note, I am NOT asking whether content we already have can be moved around like this. Yes, it willl continue to be able to be used as now. And I am NOT asking if old content already in the store will still allow this. I am asking if the user facing (visible in the main content library display, not Categories) in FUTURE new content supplied only via DAZ Connect will still be able to be arranged as the user wishes by moving them between directories on their HD.

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 7,114

    Creating Asset Manager...
    Connected to CMS: PostgreSQL 9.3.4, compiled by Visual C++ build 1600, 64-bit
    WARNING: cloud\dzcloudtasknotifier.cpp(167): Query (SELECT * FROM "customer") failed with exception: ERROR:  relation "customer" does not exist
    LINE 1: SELECT * FROM "customer"

    So what exactly does this mean? I didn't log in btw; I have no intention of doing. (That is what Install Manager is for. I can close it when I've finished with it.)

  • N_R ArtsN_R Arts Posts: 517

    As a video gamer the term "DRM" makes my blood run cold. 

    I'm happy with the setup of Daz3D and the install manager. I don't see why they suddenly need to implement all of this. 

    Plus, you know what they say, "If it ain't broke..."

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100

    Plus, you know what they say, "If it ain't broke..."

    The problem is that customer service tickets say that it is broken. 

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    Syndaryl said:

    The exporter still being available is a ridiculous argument that your files are still somehow accessible, by the way.

    I've got a half-written DUF importer for Blender that is now, apparently, going to be complete garbage because I'll loose access to the DUF files. I have the mesh imported, and I was working on the weightmapping for general weighted models (G3F and clothing), but that's all pointless effort now.

    There is API for that, you don't need to read the DUF files for that. 

  • wizwiz Posts: 788
    DAZ_Rawb said:
     

    2. Are new products in the store going to show when they are only available in this form, or do we have to buy first and then find out when we navigate to the download page?

    If/when there are products only available via "Daz Connect" the product page would note that it would require Daz Studio 4.9 or above at the very least.

    I would prefer a warning that the product required "Daz Connect". Reserve the "require Daz Studio 4.9 or above" warning for content that actually requires some feature of 4.9, such as changes in shader or geometry handling.

  • wizwiz Posts: 788
    DAZ_Rawb said:
     

    2. Are new products in the store going to show when they are only available in this form, or do we have to buy first and then find out when we navigate to the download page?

    If/when there are products only available via "Daz Connect" the product page would note that it would require Daz Studio 4.9 or above at the very least.

    I would prefer a warning that the product required "Daz Connect". Reserve the "require Daz Studio 4.9 or above" warning for content that actually requires some feature of 4.9, such as changes in shader or geometry handling.

  • DavidGB said:
    Will future, new DAZ store content be available only in DAZ Connect form? If so, will it be possible for the user to move the user-facing files around in their computer filing system to different actual filing system folders to continue arranging their files that way rather than using Smart Content or DS catgeories?

     I don't think anyoine can say definitively "all", but it does seem to eb the implication of the FAQ that yes future releases will move in that direction - that's about as precise as anyone can be.

    No, the files can't be moved - and you won't directly see the folders they are in anyway, so "vanity folders" and the like don't arise. From a thread earlier it sounded as if it will be possible to have shortcuts, and it will certainly be possible to have a loader script, either of which can be freely moved around in a file-based system.

     

  • VilianVilian Posts: 272

    So, you finally plan to cut off Poser users?

  • OK, new question: I have a computer that gets used by more than one person, each with their own daz3d account, and purchase history. Is Daz Connect going to allow more than one person to access their content on that one computer?

  • N_R ArtsN_R Arts Posts: 517

     

    Plus, you know what they say, "If it ain't broke..."

    The problem is that customer service tickets say that it is broken. 

     

    Well it isn't for me. ;)

    All I'll say is, I hope Daz3D rethinks the DRM thing. I am another person who has content on two different computers. I do this, as I create my scenes on a laptop, then render on the desktop (because it's faster). 

    Personally, the Xbox One didn't need it (DRM) and neither does Daz Studio.

     

     

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100

    OK, new question: I have a computer that gets used by more than one person, each with their own daz3d account, and purchase history. Is Daz Connect going to allow more than one person to access their content on that one computer?

    The system currently allows each person to log in and access their content. It does require an internet connection to switch users. (There are some refinements to the process that are being looked at, but no promisses either way.)  

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    Vilian said:

    So, you finally plan to cut off Poser users?

    Not with this. 

  • vwranglervwrangler Posts: 3,080
    DavidGB said:
     

    No, the files can't be moved - and you won't directly see the folders they are in anyway...

     

    Wait ... what? What does that mean? Why wouldn't we be able to see the directories on our own drives?

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001

    OK, new question: I have a computer that gets used by more than one person, each with their own daz3d account, and purchase history. Is Daz Connect going to allow more than one person to access their content on that one computer?

    From the looks of it you'll need a bigger hard drive or three...to at least stick to the letter of the Eula.

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    mjc1016 said:

    OK, new question: I have a computer that gets used by more than one person, each with their own daz3d account, and purchase history. Is Daz Connect going to allow more than one person to access their content on that one computer?

    From the looks of it you'll need a bigger hard drive or three...to at least stick to the letter of the Eula.

    Nope. Each product only needs to be installed once.

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    vwrangler said:
    DavidGB said:
     

    No, the files can't be moved - and you won't directly see the folders they are in anyway...

     

    Wait ... what? What does that mean? Why wouldn't we be able to see the directories on our own drives?

    You can see directories on your harddrive. That doesn't mean DAZ Studio will see them. 

  • maraichmaraich Posts: 353
    Vilian said:

    So, you finally plan to cut off Poser users?

    Not with this. 

    This is overly terse and doesn't explain how Poser users will still be able to access content without using the new system.

  • wizwiz Posts: 788
    DavidGB said:

    It's funny, really. For a long time the digital music and e-books I got were DRMed. Ended up a terrible pain. A music supplier I had bought from kind-of merged with another, then disappeared; and when a year or two later I got a new computer, when I tried to play the music the software insisted it had to re-download a license but couldn't because the company and its validation servers were gone. So I lost a whole load of music. Same thing happened with some e-books.

    Awhile back, first they stopped DRMing the music, then more recently the e-books. (Or one ebook supplier DRMs some ebooks and not others at the wish of the individual authors - all the authors I follow have their books DRM free.)

    So. just after the music and ebooks have moved from DRM to DRM free, DAZ is going the other way.

    Well, I am not going to buy products that are DRMed, after being burnt with the music.

    That's pretty much par for the  course.

    Content DRM has been proved to hurt content creators and software developers, over and over again. Here's a few:

    Study of DRM in the Korean music industry shows that DRM had a larger negative impact on sales than piracy did.

    https://ideas.repec.org/p/snv/dp2009/201072.html

    Arizona State found the same thing in a study of the buying habits of 2,000 test subjects. Lack of DRM increased sales.

    http://journals.ama.org/doi/abs/10.1509/jmkg.74.2.40

    Again at Rice

    http://pubsonline.informs.org/doi/abs/10.1287/mksc.1110.0668

    TOR removes eBook DRM, piracy doesn't increase, but sales do.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/suwcharmananderson/2013/04/29/tor-no-discernible-increase-in-piracy-after-year-without-drm/

    O'Reilly found exactly the same thing.

    http://toc.oreilly.com/2011/01/book-piracy-drm-data.html

    To sum it up, DRM hurts content crteators, content vendors, and consumers. The only people it doesn't hurt are DRM vendors. Is there a Grimer Wormtongue licensing some encryption to DAZ, selling them a bill of goods?

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 3,276

    You do not need to be online to use your content. You only need to be online to download content, either new or updates, or to use the in application purchase functionality. Of course you needed to be online to download content or purchase content before 4.9, that aspect has not really changed. The difference is that now you will only have to download those parts of a product that have been updated, or failed to properly download when you were on before.  

    The difference is also that now you have to do it from within DS, which means that you need a good enough internet connection from that computer.

    You go to the library to download your purchases because your connection at home is too bad? Sorry, can't do that for Daz connect only content.

    Your rendering computer is never connected to internet? Well, too bad, no Daz connect only content for you...

    You have a desktop and a laptop and want to install your content on both? Well, you'll have to download it twice, using twice the download allowance.

    Your hard drive crashed and you have to reinstall everything? Sure, redownload everything since you don't have a backup of the installers...

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    maraich said:
    Vilian said:

    So, you finally plan to cut off Poser users?

    Not with this. 

    This is overly terse and doesn't explain how Poser users will still be able to access content without using the new system.

    I am not going to try to predict the future.

    If there is a plan to cut off Poser users, this isn't it, and I am unaware of any such plan in the first place. 

    By "the new system" I presume you mean encryption. That doesn't work with Poser content, as Poser can't read it and there is no way to force Poser to read it. 

  • hphoenixhphoenix Posts: 1,278

    Wow.  I have to say that adding DRM isn't going to stop anything.....if anything, it will make both the DAZ servers as well as the user logins more of a target as the warez people will want to get the data to crack the encryption.

    The encryption will be cracked.  BluRay was encrypted.  It hadn't been out a week before someone had cracked it and produced a player.  Constant updates ensued, and the crackers kept up with them.  The only problem was to legitimate users who had to constantly update their devices so they still worked.  And at least in one case I personally know of, the device never got update past a certain point, making it useless and had to be replaced (an LG BluRay player.)

    DRM has been shown repeatedly not to benefit anyone, except the hackers who use their cracks to extort money via paysites and slip viruses/malware in through them to make more money.

    An illegal download does NOT equal a lost sale.  All research has shown that over 99% of illegal downloads would not have been purchased legitimately if the file wasn't available for free.  So DRM does NOT benefit the content creators.

    In fact, illegal downloads often INCREASE sales, as some users utilize them as a try-before-you-buy system.  If they can't be sure a piece of content will suit their needs, they download it, test it, and see if it is worth buying.  The only reason content creators would legitimately want to DRM content is to force people to pay to try it, so they cannot check if it is worth it first.  The 30-day-money-back-guarantee will get a massive workout fast once DRM becomes involved.

    All this will do is make content more difficult to use in ways that the developers haven't planned for.  As a developer and content creator myself (though I am not on the DAZ store) I STILL would not advocate the use of DRM.

     

    The availability of illegal content and software often allows young users who don't have lots of cash to still learn and become familiar with that software and content.  When they get older, employed, and have spare income, they will often become paying customers.  And if they get employed within that industry, what software will they recommend or select to do their work with?  The same stuff they are familiar with from having used it before (where they are already comfortable with the interface and peculiarities of the content.)  Locking up the content or the software just discourages this (it doesn't prevent it.)

     

    Why do so many currently use DS?  It's free.  Why do so many people use DAZ content?  Because they've become accustomed to how it works, and know how to work with it.  Will DRM help this in any way?

     

    Just say 'no' to DRM!

     

This discussion has been closed.