Bored about Bikinis, lingerie and underwear for female characters

kyoto kid · July 2015

Steven-V said:

I'm going to chime in a bit here.

First of all, I recognize that the content creators are going where the sales are. That so much of the clothing is skimp-wear is a commentary more on our buying habits than on the creator's crafting habits.

However, that said, I think this thread is plenty of proof that there is a solid market for non-skmp clothing.

For example, I pretty much cannot use skimpwear at all in my project, which is a webcomic using DAZ for the artwork. It's a superhero comic, and no, I do not want my main character to look like Starfire or Red Sonja. There's some great stuff I already have, like her school uniform and some other nice things. But there is less variety available for 'normal clothes' than I would like. I have looked around on Rendo but in my experience it is as bad if not worse in terms of skmip-wear.

So... given this and a couple of other threads, of quite a large number of people saying we would like more normal clothing for our characters, hopefully a few intrepid PAs will take the ball and run with it and give us more variety, seeing that there is a small but enthusiastic market for it.

...indeed. One of my major reasons for getting involved with this was to illustrate RPG modules and sourcebooks.(primarily in the cyberpunk genre). After GMing a long running campaign arc (that I almost came close to getting published) many said it would make a really good novel given all the background I had developed (about two years worth of research and writing). So now I had this stiry about this young lady form the Balkans who's nation was invaded and occupied about fourty years from now (no more spoilers), which I thought would be neat to illustrate. As I could no longer draw or paint well anymore due to the onset of serious arthritis, I turned to 3D CG on he advice of a community member on the game's forums. Haven't looked back since.

Skimpwear has little place in the story while a bit of fantasy wear (namely that relating to the fey) does. Hence, most of what clothing content purchases I have made are focused on what I need to illustrate the story with. I'm sorry, but no one in their right mind would consider getting caught in a firefight with their belly exposed and boobs about to pop out of her leather corset/bra, or for that matter trying to sneak around a back alley in 5" spike heels. Gut shots are the worst, and easiest for anyone evne slightly trained with a firearm to hit (unless you are a SW Storm Trooper or original BG series Cylon). So many times I'd see something that "almost looks perfect, except for....". At least most of the male clothing content that would work is a bit more "reasonable".

Oso3D · July 2015

Have any PAs tried kickstarters or patreons or the like?

Spit · July 2015

.

JartStar said:

Skimp or no skimp what I don't want to see is Daz pressured into creating gatekeepers who come up with new rules for which characters, clothing, and items are in the store by what makes certain people feel good seeing them there rather than what the market dictates.

Agree. But I also don't like ANOTHER DAY WITH NOTHING NEW. C'mon DAZ.

SnowPheonix said:

JartStar said:

Skimp or no skimp what I don't want to see is Daz pressured into creating gatekeepers who come up with new rules for which characters, clothing, and items are in the store by what makes certain people feel good seeing them there rather than what the market dictates.

A market is dynamic and ever changing on the internet. The software just took a major upturn with Iray. I've always predicted that the in the end what people want is instant results cheap, quick and real looking.

Next the Character has just taken a major upturn also... Who knows, maybe a new DAZ product posing product is just around the corner,,, one that can be incorporated into the social media stream.. The point is that WE ARE THE MUSIC MAKERS. We are the dreamers of dreams. The market will grow as a result of all the changes ... people will get excited over the ability to create real looking people.. it is just in reach, be patient and smile... if your any good the market will be so big, nobody will notice the hickups...While the heart beats, hope lingers.

Though I basically agree with you I gotta say that there's nothing 'instant' about iRay. It's a step backwards as far as that aspect is concerned.

Fixme12 · July 2015

More tutorials that is what daz shop need! Tutorials about dazstudio and Zbrush, Dazstudio and Modo Indie Modeling, and finish your project inside dazstudio tools.
Seems more people lost interest in only play with content without learning something.

Steven-V · July 2015

ssgbryan said:

Steven-V said:

I'm going to chime in a bit here.

First of all, I recognize that the content creators are going where the sales are. That so much of the clothing is skimp-wear is a commentary more on our buying habits than on the creator's crafting habits.

However, that said, I think this thread is plenty of proof that there is a solid market for non-skmp clothing.

For example, I pretty much cannot use skimpwear at all in my project, which is a webcomic using DAZ for the artwork. It's a superhero comic, and no, I do not want my main character to look like Starfire or Red Sonja. There's some great stuff I already have, like her school uniform and some other nice things. But there is less variety available for 'normal clothes' than I would like. I have looked around on Rendo but in my experience it is as bad if not worse in terms of skmip-wear.

So... given this and a couple of other threads, of quite a large number of people saying we would like more normal clothing for our characters, hopefully a few intrepid PAs will take the ball and run with it and give us more variety, seeing that there is a small but enthusiastic market for it.

If you want a wide variety of clothing for any character not named Victoria 4, you will need to learn how to get it on the figure, and you will need to shop at many more storefronts. I have a 50Gb runtime of female clothing and a 25Gb or so of male clothing - and all of it goes on any figure I have purchased over the past decade and very little of it has gone on V4 or M4.

As far as a few intrepid PAs, don't hold your breath - they are very, very risk adverse, and for good reason. How would you like to spend a month working on a male clothing outfit and only sell 10 - 20 copies. That has happened too often in the past. Good luck in getting any vendor to think that things have changed - and they haven't, especially since the Poser/DS schism.

My point is that this thread (and there are one or two other threads with similar statements) demonstrates that there is an audience for non-skimp clothing. Many of us (I did not counted but quite a few) have said we want such things and would buy them. The PAs are therefore not taking a shot in the dark, not knowing if non-skimp stuff will sell at all. We've got people here who've said they are dying for more clothing of the 'normal' variety. I don't make content for the shop, but if I did, I would see this thread and at least try to experiment with normal clothing a little bit and see what happens.

Even better, they now have a thread a bunch of us are watching to post in. So if they made say a business suit or something, they could post right here and say 'Hey guys here is a new business suit, see if you like it,' and I bet it would work better than a typical ad, because they know they have a target audience right here.

As you say, I'm not going to hold my breath, but I can still hope (and breathe).

Timbales · July 2015

There's a gorgeous new outfit for women in the store today: http://www.daz3d.com/rune-outfit-for-genesis-2-female-s

No high heels. Full coverage with options to hide sleeves and legs, cover cleavage. Beatufully detailed with a full suit, jacket, sword, scabbard, arm guard helmet, belt, cape, shoulder guards and a wand. It could be used for fantasy or scifi with different shaders applied.

Are you buying it? If not, why?

SimonJM · July 2015

RAMWolff said:

60 JCM's?? Girl friend... dayum! You go on with your bad self now!

We need the translation engine, stat!

SnowPheonix · July 2015

Spit said:

SnowPheonix said:

JartStar said:

Skimp or no skimp what I don't want to see is Daz pressured into creating gatekeepers who come up with new rules for which characters, clothing, and items are in the store by what makes certain people feel good seeing them there rather than what the market dictates.

A market is dynamic and ever changing on the internet. The software just took a major upturn with Iray. I've always predicted that the in the end what people want is instant results cheap, quick and real looking.

Next the Character has just taken a major upturn also... Who knows, maybe a new DAZ product posing product is just around the corner,,, one that can be incorporated into the social media stream.. The point is that WE ARE THE MUSIC MAKERS. We are the dreamers of dreams. The market will grow as a result of all the changes ... people will get excited over the ability to create real looking people.. it is just in reach, be patient and smile... if your any good the market will be so big, nobody will notice the hickups...While the heart beats, hope lingers.

Though I basically agree with you I gotta say that there's nothing 'instant' about iRay. It's a step backwards as far as that aspect is concerned.

I just love the clean, crisp look I get using Iray and when compared to all the previous options not 3delight, its way faster. I can remember waiting 24 hours for a single picture and it still didn't look as nice... Iray rocks and as if to back it up they turn around and come out with the best non-skimpwear suite I've seen released in a while.. Yeah, I'm talking about todays "Rune Outfit"... I absolutely LOVE that outfit.. It reminds me of a functional Rogue outfit and I love that you can hide sections... this would be the perfect outfit for a expansion pack too... need a rainbow queen. LOL

http://www.daz3d.com/rune-bundle-for-genesis-2-female-s-and-genesis-3-female-s

What a great way to answer back DAZ.. by delivering up the goods :)

Serene Night · July 2015

Tim OG said:

Are you buying it? If not, why?

I would buy it. I really like it in fact. I think it has definite sci-fi application- but it is too expensive for me. 20 dollars for an outfit I may use only a few times is too expensive.

Richard Haseltine · July 2015

Steven-V said:
My point is that this thread (and there are one or two other threads with similar statements) demonstrates that there is an audience for non-skimp clothing. Many of us (I did not counted but quite a few) have said we want such things and would buy them. The PAs are therefore not taking a shot in the dark, not knowing if non-skimp stuff will sell at all. We've got people here who've said they are dying for more clothing of the 'normal' variety. I don't make content for the shop, but if I did, I would see this thread and at least try to experiment with normal clothing a little bit and see what happens.

At a rough count, not helped by the generic avatars, I think about 45 people have posted to this thread. Even if all of them are potential buyers of "normal clothes", and even if all of them might buy the same piece of normal clothing, that isn't by itself a viable number of customers. Of course we may hope that there are more silent readers, or even users who don't read the forum, to make up the numbers but the thread itself isn't a demonstration of sufficient demand I'm afraid.

Richard Haseltine · July 2015

Serene Night said:

Tim OG said:

Are you buying it? If not, why?

I would buy it. I really like it in fact. I think it has definite sci-fi application- but it is too expensive for me. 20 dollars for an outfit I may use only a few times is too expensive.

And there is another obstacle - good realistic clothig is hard to do, it needs lots of JCMs to keep the cloth hanging something like right and the laeyers not interpenetrating, so i would expect it to be around or over the $20 on intro sale point in most cases.

Timbales · July 2015

Serene Night said:

Tim OG said:

Are you buying it? If not, why?

I would buy it. I really like it in fact. I think it has definite sci-fi application- but it is too expensive for me. 20 dollars for an outfit I may use only a few times is too expensive.

That's a shame. It seems like a very versatile set. I asked because this set checks all the boxes of what people have complained about vendors not producing. That's not saying you, or anyone, is required to buy it. But here's a PA who has produced what people in this topic are saying there is a market for and people want.

Serene Night · July 2015

It looks nice. I agree. Versatile, and doesn't have to be high fantasy. Looks useful as sci-fi.

I probably will pick up the male hazmat suit though. That is within my price range, and useful for multiple different things.

When deciding what I can afford, I have to take into account how many times I will render it.

FirstBastion · July 2015

Tim OG said:

There's a gorgeous new outfit for women in the store today: http://www.daz3d.com/rune-outfit-for-genesis-2-female-s

No high heels. Full coverage with options to hide sleeves and legs, cover cleavage. Beatufully detailed with a full suit, jacket, sword, scabbard, arm guard helmet, belt, cape, shoulder guards and a wand. It could be used for fantasy or scifi with different shaders applied.

Are you buying it? If not, why?

..."and there's the rub" exactly!

in case people don't know the reference, its Shakespeare.

StratDragon · July 2015

while I'm still not ready for prime time with most clothing I have learned to make some practical items that I can't find anywhere else. Mostly when I can't find shoes for my character that don't look like they got all tarted up for a stroll or performing a K-Pop interpretation of the Apollo 11 moon landing, or a handbag that does not look 10 years out of date. Sometimes I can post these, sometimes they look too much like actual products for me to post and invoke the wrath of the internet, but the veil of I need something that looks like and I will make something that looks like is lifting and it's very liberating.

"Never underestimate the reward of teaching yourself 3D modeling!"
Oddly enough; also Shakespeare!

larsmidnatt · July 2015

StratDragon said:

while I'm still not ready for prime time with most clothing I have learned to make some practical items that I can't find anywhere else. Mostly when I can't find shoes for my character that don't look like they got all tarted up for a stroll or performing a K-Pop interpretation of the Apollo 11 moon landing, or a handbag that does not look 10 years out of date. Sometimes I can post these, sometimes they look too much like actual products for me to post and invoke the wrath of the internet, but the veil of I need something that looks like and I will make something that looks like is lifting and it's very liberating.

"Never underestimate the reward of teaching yourself 3D modeling!"
Oddly enough; also Shakespeare!

Congratz! You seem to understand one of the things I've been trying to communicate and have failed.

I think that was a Chaucher quote however.

dakkuuan · July 2015

I think the thing that absolutely drives me crazy are high heels. It seems any outfit that's fantasy or sci-fi in nature has high heels. I can't stand it. I can deal with the skimpy wear (there are ways to cover the character up if needed) but the heels are harder to deal with (but not impossible) and I wish authors would account for the fact that not everyone is going to want them.

Oso3D · July 2015

Tim OG said:

There's a gorgeous new outfit for women in the store today: http://www.daz3d.com/rune-outfit-for-genesis-2-female-s

No high heels. Full coverage with options to hide sleeves and legs, cover cleavage. Beatufully detailed with a full suit, jacket, sword, scabbard, arm guard helmet, belt, cape, shoulder guards and a wand. It could be used for fantasy or scifi with different shaders applied.

Are you buying it? If not, why?

I added it to my wishlist. Mind you, my wishlist is 250 items at this point, but it'll probably be in the middle of that range.

Why I'm not buying it NOW is because I just moved and my budget for DAZ stuff is near 0. That should be changing soon, fingers crossed.

On my list of clothing to buy, right now one of those versatile sets of business suits is probably a higher priority (since I don't have anything business suit related), but this should be right after that.

RAMWolff · July 2015

Tim OG said:

There's a gorgeous new outfit for women in the store today: http://www.daz3d.com/rune-outfit-for-genesis-2-female-s

No high heels. Full coverage with options to hide sleeves and legs, cover cleavage. Beatufully detailed with a full suit, jacket, sword, scabbard, arm guard helmet, belt, cape, shoulder guards and a wand. It could be used for fantasy or scifi with different shaders applied.

Are you buying it? If not, why?

Really expensive but Arki does amazing work and the outfit is for both G2F and G3F. I popped the one for G3F and the texture expansion into the cart. I'm so glad He/She is FINALLY supporting over here. I love their work over at Runtime... I just drool when I see they have released something new for the older figures and think "why not for the newer generations?" and here we are! YAY! iRay settings for all the packs too! BONUS!

JennK · July 2015

Tim OG said:
Are you buying it? If not, why?

Actually yes I am as soon as I arrange the account I am getting the big bundle. This outfit is stuff I can use, I am also working on getting all the past non-skimpy female outfits along with what male content is out there. Can I always buy right when things come out? Nope most times they have to wait until my somewhat free payday.

Mattymanx · July 2015

Steven-V said:

Even better, they now have a thread a bunch of us are watching to post in. So if they made say a business suit or something, they could post right here and say 'Hey guys here is a new business suit, see if you like it,' and I bet it would work better than a typical ad, because they know they have a target audience right here.

You mean like this business suit for G3F - http://www.daz3d.com/business-suit-for-genesis-3-female-s and addon textures - http://www.daz3d.com/business-suit-textures

PAs who advertise in the forums tend to make their own threads. Having ONE thread with a ton of different products advertised PLUS complaints about other ones is rather counter productive. Also, DAZ Marketing is responsable to make the newsletters advertising new releases. So if anyone wants to keep up wiht what is new, get the newsletter. Compared to a forum thread it will be seen by most of the customers.

And a final note, Genesis 3 Female has ONLY BEEN OUT FOR A MONTH!!!!! Give the PAs time to make stuff. All new Victoria releases tend to be the same, sexy stuff and dresses right off the bat. Its sells and people buy it. PAs will make what sells. While not all clothing items are realistic it is a proven fact that fantasy sets sell a lot higher then normal clothing does. If you need something else, use a G2F outfit since they autofit well or the OptiText dynamic cloth.

Daikatana · July 2015

Tim OG said:

timmins.william said:

Tim OG said:

There's a gorgeous new outfit for women in the store today: http://www.daz3d.com/rune-outfit-for-genesis-2-female-s

No high heels. Full coverage with options to hide sleeves and legs, cover cleavage. Beatufully detailed with a full suit, jacket, sword, scabbard, arm guard helmet, belt, cape, shoulder guards and a wand. It could be used for fantasy or scifi with different shaders applied.

Are you buying it? If not, why?

Actually I did purchase the Genesis 3 version. The texture pack went to the wishlist for a later purchase as I am in between pay periods at the moment. I make a point to support the PA's with my available funds when they make something I want.

IceEmpress · July 2015

I rarely use underwear, either. Skimpy armor bottoms I use, but skimpy armor otherwise I don't use.

Yes, the underwear, swimwear, and skimpwear is the best selling stuff. If you want proof, just look at Renderosity.

(Note that this list ONLY includes 3D models, and not texture add-ons) Their top clothing vendors sell almost exclusively skimpwear-- Mytilus, OutofTouch (skimpwear of varying degrees-- some of which would not be considered skimpwear by many here-- my definition of skimpwear is synonymous with "immodest". So short shorts, tops showing more than an inch of cleavage, catsuits/skinsuits, and undergarments with the exception of boxer shorts.), Supernova (as OOT), 3D Age (the #1 clothing vendor on the site, though some outfits are quite conservative/casual), Darkworld (skinsuit/2nd skin maker), Powerage (though Powerage sells a few non-skimpwear outfits, such as the Supreme Armor), Nirvy, SAV (though technically she doesn't count since it is her hair, not her outfits, that sell) Lilflame (though she also sells some nice non-heeled footwear and accessories)...
As far as skimpwear level and subjectiveness, Lilflame, Supernova, OutofTouch, Mytilus, and 3D Age are the vendors who sell lots of items that would be universally agreed upon as being skimpwear, though in the case of OutofTouch, the items in the more extreme skimpwear category are in the minority (bet. 5~15% I guesstimate) And many of her most popular clothing items are practical or flowing fantasy dresses rather than skimpwear.

The top pose vendors (excepting Ironman) sell primarily/exclusively erotic pose sets-- Hameleon, Ilona, and Lunchlady. Darkworld sells quite a few poses-- most are of an erotic nature, though not all are overtly so (he sells quite a few combat poses, which are primarily on the erotic rather than practical/realistic. The type that you often see in many comic books and videogames)

THAT SAID
Some of these vendors' most popular clothing items (adjusted for newness) are fairly generic, casual (or formal) clothing. (namely OutofTouch and Supernova)
This trend can also be seen on the Rendo freebies page (adjusted for age of the freebie, the most popular items are tank tops, t-shirts, formal suits for the guys, and generic casual pants, shorts, dresses, and shoes) Tank tops being among the most popular of all (due to being among the most versatile pieces of clothing-- among the easiest to fit under jackets/other clothing with little to no pokethrough, and usable in any genre)

Sadly, armor tends not to be very popular-- esp. non-skimpwear armor. This trend is easily seen if you pay attention to Xurge3D's site and esp. the texture add-ons available on Rendo. His most popular models are Fantasy Rogue and Fantasy Mage for V4. (beyond that, the scifi suits and M4 Paladin Armor are the most popular models)

And yeah, G2F needs more practical/non skimpwear armor-- Hell, even more of Val3DArt's armor that has the stomach exposed but covers the entire chest and upper back is good. Esp. since most of her outfits don't have high heels.

G2M needs more complete armor sets (ones with greaves and gauntlets) Actually, G2 F and M both need gauntlets-- as in metal ones. G2M only has one set of armor with greaves (leg armor) that covers the thighs.

Also, somewhat different subject, but it would be nice to have an outfit or hair with a bandana on the forehead.

nicstt · July 2015

Well I bought that new Rune Outfit for G3F; I was comtemplating it, and what clinched it was the opportunity to get a stonemason item for half-price (I have three in my wish list and couldn't afford em all).

The outfit was a bit costly for me, but it looks really well made, lots of options and, woohoo, no visible skin - just like armour should have.

I suggest to everyone who has posted here, you should be considering buying it, and generally most of us should be buying it; if not, then all we wanted to do is bitch.

It certainly looks good... I only wish I could do it justice.

Oso3D · July 2015

One thing that intrigues me is the cape. I don't have a really good cape yet. How manipulatible is it?

nicstt · July 2015

timmins.william said:
One thing that intrigues me is the cape. I don't have a really good cape yet. How manipulatible is it?

It would be awesome if it was dynamic - it is really crying out for it; there are a number of morphs, but getting it looking great in all situations is going to need some heavy tweaking imo; I consider it the weakest aspect.

mrposer · July 2015

Tim OG said:

There's a gorgeous new outfit for women in the store today: http://www.daz3d.com/rune-outfit-for-genesis-2-female-s

No high heels. Full coverage with options to hide sleeves and legs, cover cleavage. Beatufully detailed with a full suit, jacket, sword, scabbard, arm guard helmet, belt, cape, shoulder guards and a wand. It could be used for fantasy or scifi with different shaders applied.

Are you buying it? If not, why?

If only the bra and panties shown in Promo #7 were included.

Daikatana · July 2015

timmins.william said:
One thing that intrigues me is the cape. I don't have a really good cape yet. How manipulatible is it?

At first look, it has roughly 28 morphs split between "style" "movement" and "adjustment". There are a further 9 "control" settings

IceEmpress · July 2015

I'm pretty sure, that no-one of the vendors here take ever a look in the Suggestions Boards.
DesignAnvil does :) And I'm quite happy (ecstatic) that he made the dagger poses that another poster and I requested at around the same time.
Allesandro AM (creator of the LAMH system) also reads the suggestions forum-- or at least reads suggestions from this board.

You have choices. You can't force other people to do things for you. You have a limited influence. Once you accept that reality, you will see its not "harsh" to advise people to empower themselves. Only you can decide if it is worth it to you. But you can't tell others what their time is worth. You can spend years waiting and speculating. Or you can begin to take steps to rule out the waiting game and the gamble associated with it.
I get tired of this attitude from vendors, 3D artists, Linux users, and programmers alike. All of these things require TALENT. Something that not everyone has for clothing creation, texture making, coding HTML, coding UNIX, etc. Yet I see these comments and attitudes from some people that come across as them thinking that 3D modelling/programming is easy and anyone can learn to do it (in the case of some Linux users, in the extreme, as they actually flat out state that Linux is "easier to use/much more user-friendly than Windows and OS. Then of course you have the users of hardcore/professional 3D modelling software-- Blender in particular, who look down upon anyone who use other peoples' models as opposed to making their own, as if it's something that anyone could learn to do) Granted on the 10th re-reading of your statement, it doesn't actually come across as condescending, so this rant probably doesn't apply to you. if I could create my own clothing, or believed that I could ever learn to do so then I WOULD-- and 3D sites-- and PAs, would certainly get far less of my money.

2) Lack of originality. I see way too many stolen designs from games and movies. I recently purchased two ships that I thought were unique, turns out they were ripped right out off Wing Commander.
Ugh, I agree. Sadly this isn't limited to Daz or Rendo content-- go to Blendswap and you will find very few items that don't have a copyright icon. I think Sevein might be one of the few vendors to actually make original models, and sadly his textures SUCK (even worse, the textures are SOME ASSEMBLY REQUIRED, and there can be as many as 12 textures. He has a crapton of freebies, so you can look at those to get an idea. Also, his models are all obj. only format, so no moving parts.)

...I'm that way with aircraft. Studied aeronautics and (save for the old Biplane, the Bizjet, and a Cessna for toon characters [which actually looks pretty "real"]), most of the fixed wing aircraft I see would have serious lift and/or stability issues. I mean it doesn't have to be a carbon copy of a Boeing 787, F-18, or Piper Aztec, but should still look like something you'd actually see at an airport.
Be warned, however, that the above IP rule applies to most real-life vehicle models as well-- even if you don't put the company logo on the back/whereever of the vehicle-- the design itself is IP. That is why you will see some vendors say "based off of the ____ model".

The OP may be valid. But a lot of what I was talking about was based on some extremely specific requirements people made regarding costumes they want. If you want something very specific, that will likely be something you need to craft yourself. Even if you convince a PA to do more sci fi, they won't neccesarily do the particular type of sci-fi you want. I think requests like that even less likely to be fulfilled.
I think one of the main types of outfits that forumites begging for this overwhelmingly want for Gen3 is a Supersuit/Gsuit type outfit. Something that covers their entire body and is uber-mega-ultra versatile-- or even something that isn't super versatile, but has a few material zones and no seams/folds or an HD folds on/off morph, to hold them over until the release of a Supersuit/Gsuit/Bodysuit outfit. The Genesis Supersuit and the V4/M4 Bodysuits are among the most popular outfits of ALL TIME. There are no seams, no zippers, no folds, numerous material zones, and numerous morphs. Sadly, while G2F got a Gsuit, G2M never got such an outfit (though the Genesis Supersuit doesn't look all that bad on him IIRC, with adjustments-- it's still not a perfect skintight fit.)

I see some good high fantasy stuff out there for G2F and I start thinking oh I could use it for this and then I see the high heeled boots and then I stop...I wish the vendor would add a flat heel variety in with their outfits as well as the heeled ones
Indeed. In another thread about this, I actually made a list of Daz vendors who sell non-heeled fantasy/scifi clothing or heeled clothing with a flat hell morph. I will see if I can find that thread/post of mine, and maybe also add some Rendo vendors as well (since we already brought up Coflek-Gnorg) However, that list only applies to G2F, and not G3F.

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Bored about Bikinis, lingerie and underwear for female characters

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