Daz 3D is part of 
Connect
DAZ Productions, Inc.
7533 S Center View Ct #4664
West Jordan, UT 84084
Licensing Agreement | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | EULA
© 2025 Daz Productions Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Comments
Sorry for late response, European time zone *yawns and gets her morning coffee* T-pose and animate initially, though posing and draping appears to work in the skirt case. Looked a bit worse than the typical OptiTex posing and draping, but that might be due to the clothing not being optimised. Morphing of the clothing can have some erratic effects though. It works only only cleared drape and it appears the clothing item tries to get back into the original shape (like OptiTex clothing does on e.g. scaling). So it might be problematic if e.g. a new shape forces morphs onto the clothing via auto-follow and the clothing may not be able to cope.
In general, the clothing is not set-up like OptiTex clothing is with this workaround. OptiTex clothing is basically a prop with a rudimentary rig attached. This modified clothing item stays as "conformer" in scene view and still behaves like a conformer with the ability to drape.
Edit: One further thing I noticed, the clothing item appears to stay in same draped form even if you e.g. bend a leg after draping. Might be interesting to see what (if anything) is preserved during load/save cycle. Freeze simulation still appears to work and turns the conformer into a prop.
For me, I love dynamics and i love hair. The very first thing I used poser for was the dynamics- often draping clothing in poser and exporting as obj to render in DS. I also learned to use the hair room right away, but i MUCH prefer using LAMH in DS for hair just because it is ten times more simple. But I use poser most for dynamics becase I'm as limited on WHAT I can drape.
Sorry for late response, European time zone *yawns and gets her morning coffee* T-pose and animate initially, though posing and draping appears to work in the skirt case. Looked a bit worse than the typical OptiTex posing and draping, but that might be due to the clothing not being optimised. Morphing of the clothing can have some erratic effects though. It works only only cleared drape and it appears the clothing item tries to get back into the original shape (like OptiTex clothing does on e.g. scaling). So it might be problematic if e.g. a new shape forces morphs onto the clothing via auto-follow and the clothing may not be able to cope.
In general, the clothing is not set-up like OptiTex clothing is with this workaround. OptiTex clothing is basically a prop with a rudimentary rig attached. This modified clothing item stays as "conformer" in scene view and still behaves like a conformer with the ability to drape.
Edit: One further thing I noticed, the clothing item appears to stay in same draped form even if you e.g. bend a leg after draping. Might be interesting to see what (if anything) is preserved during load/save cycle. Freeze simulation still appears to work and turns the conformer into a prop.
It would be very interesting to see more tests with MD clothing....
Morphs being forced into the clothing can be problematic anyway, with the "cling wrap" effect, though there are utilities that help with this. But clothing also gets resized when it is conformed. If this method could be made to drape the clothes as they currently are in the scene, rather than pulling the original geometry, that would be especially cool....
The company was not large and their efforts were unsuccessful. I was not making light of what happened. I was appalled that a company could just go around filing lawsuits and make claims to things that were in use in both Poser and in DS before the company was even founded.
As to you question about the copyright. The answer is no. A brokerage like DAZ or RPublishing can offer to purchase the product and the rights to it but they cannot force a vendor to sell it to them. On the other hand, a brokerage can commission a vendor to produce a certain product with the understanding that the product would be produced for a specified amount of money and in return the vendor would relinquish all copyrights to product to the broker. This last would likely be a legal contract.
As for can anyone file a lawsuit against another person? Are you asking about the US or some other country? Lawsuits are covered under civil law rather than criminal. Biggest thing to remember about law in the US, there is no one set statute for the whole country. Laws not only from state to state but from county to county within a state and sometimes from town to town.
Is there a particular type of lawsuit you are asking about? A small claim's court suit to recover a monetary judgement is different from a million dollar personal injury lawsuit.
Guess what I was thinking if I sold a mech could just anyone in California or Japan "where most mechs come from" suit me.
Just cause they walk buy a court house and thought hey lets suit RorrKonn for the heck of it.
Can they just suit for the heck of it or do they half to prove they have a reason to suit.
I wouldn't worry about it unless your work is clearly based on an existing design. While technically anyone can take you to court if they believe your work infringes on their copyrights, very few are likely to if they have no reason to do so. More likely you'll receive a cease and desist first before you ever get to courts (basically, stop distributing this or we'll send the heavies in).
There have been court cases over the most ridiculous and trivial things imaginable, but thankfully such cases tend to be rare.
Renpatsu, I tried it myself last night but I got stuck almost instantly on the parent variable in the second screenshot. What did you use for that field?
You're telling me. That's the #1 reason I use dynamics. The "fix cling wrap" button.
The "parent" differs from object to object (and so do e.g. the material names as well of course). After the
section, there should be a "id" followed by "url" in the next line and it is basically the value there after the ':' you use as "parent" (something starting with "/data/ ...". This is basically the top most node entry, which the "modifier_library" section should be a child of.
I did a search in the DUF file for similar paths and ended up taking it from the "URL : " field, so it's nice to see that I wasn't far off. The issue is that there are tons of urls, all different targets, ending in nodes like head, pelvis, hip, etc. I was going with hip because that's the root of the figure usually.
In my two examples I tried this is before the "conform_target" and also before the "geometries" and in turn also before the hip URL (since the hip node definition comes even later). Basically the beginning of that first "node" array, so right after the section I outlined above. For the Rebellion skirt this is for example:
as parent, so not "...#hip" :)
You're telling me. That's the #1 reason I use dynamics. The "fix cling wrap" button.
There are utilities that can help a lot:
http://www.daz3d.com/sickle-rigging-and-morphing-system
http://www.daz3d.com/clothing-breast-fixes-for-genesis-2-female
http://www.daz3d.com/utilities-resources/clothing-cleavage-modifier
But ideally I'd like to be able to combine these utilities (which would affect the "cut" of the clothing) with dynamics, to make the clothing drape more realistically. :) We need both because in the real world, some clothes just stretch over the body, but others are tailored to fit a specific way, and that tailoring should be customized to the shape of the body... and then draped.
If we had a utility that would give us the option to drape morphed clothing, utilities like those I posted above could provide projection morphs to optimize the mesh to prepare for draping around the underlying shape, rather than trying to solve all problems with the morph itself. Definitely the best of both worlds.
Awesome, so it's just the first defined url. Looks like I know where my night went. I hope we get some official word if this is simpatico, I'd love to see some tutorials and scripts come out. Hell, since it's just editing a text file and not actually anything with DAZ I could probably make one myself. Once I figure it out, of course.
From my continuing experiments it appears this gives us a "hybrid" system, both a conformer and a dynamic outfit in one. It can be conformed to the figure and follow both it's poses and it's morphs, at least with Genesis it does, and then it can be draped around that pose and morph shape, and that can be done either as a single frame drape or as an animated drape.
Got a lot more experiments to try yet, and I dare say quite a bit of mesh modifying, before I'll be completely happy with the results, but the initial stages are very promising.
There are utilities that can help a lot:
http://www.daz3d.com/sickle-rigging-and-morphing-system
http://www.daz3d.com/clothing-breast-fixes-for-genesis-2-female
http://www.daz3d.com/utilities-resources/clothing-cleavage-modifier
But ideally I'd like to be able to combine these utilities (which would affect the "cut" of the clothing) with dynamics, to make the clothing drape more realistically. :) We need both because in the real world, some clothes just stretch over the body, but others are tailored to fit a specific way, and that tailoring should be customized to the shape of the body... and then draped.
If we had a utility that would give us the option to drape morphed clothing, utilities like those I posted above could provide projection morphs to optimize the mesh to prepare for draping around the underlying shape, rather than trying to solve all problems with the morph itself. Definitely the best of both worlds.
My issues with those is that they are static fixes based off of certain morphs. I use shapes as bases, export them to sculptris and do my own editing, so the fixes never really help me.
Also, armor is a great example of something we wouldn't want draped like cloth.
Just to weigh in here from a DAZ perspective.
DAZ would view Dynamic Cloth Content created using a technological "work-around" instead of authorized tools as a violation of our agreement with Optitex. Just because snipets of code can be inserted into a product's DUF file to spoof the dynamic cloth engine into treating the item like dynamic cloth doesn't mean it is valid or legal to do so.
In consideration of any such content, DAZ would be concerned about violating our agreement with Optitex and therefore would not be likely to publish any such content created without the authorized tools.
Further, DAZ would be inclined to pursue the publishers of any such content on other sites and ask that they not be sold since they would by necessity be derivative works from legitimately produced dynamic content. The DAZ EULA prohibits the sale or distribution of such products UNLESS they require the original product from our site which would not be the case in these instances.
So even though neither DAZ nor Optitex is likely to attempt to stop someone from doing this for their own purposes in their own scenes, DAZ would be inclined to view the publication or distribution of this type of content as a violation of the DAZ Eula and anyone trying to profit from it as being subject to copyright and license infringement penalties.
Makes sense, unfortunately. No getting around that someone took a duf containing a dynamic object made with the Opitex software and figured out what it did. However, if an emulation (even a sub-par) one can be done by editing a dozen lines in the scene file, it brings to question why Opitex needs a $15,000 commercial clothing design software.
Nonetheless it's an impressive feat to figure that out. Bummer.
I am perfectly fine with "for personal use" and I figured that would be the DAZ stance. Just, if people have to keep waiting for anything on the dynamic side of things to happen in DAZ Studio then it is no surprise that such "workarounds" would arrive at some point - and, to be honest, it is quite ridiculous how few lines of code make the wheel spin. From my point of view DAZ should have "pursued" their way with Optitex in the same fashion to make a dynamic cloth creation plugin happen. Really, what is the point of buying 10k+$ software to create dynamic clothes on your own?
Doesn't matter really anymore. In the end - in about half a year to a year - a non-Optitex dynamic plugin will happen anyway now and, if everything goes well, one finally has not to rely on Optitex anymore.
This is the way almost all the OptiTex dynamic clothes in the DAZ 3D store work -- conform, pose, then drape, repose if you like, drape again. It's a very nice system, within its limitations.
Well for the first time in long time I've been enjoying myself using DS, I've been doing stuff I want to do rather than fixing other peoples stuff.
The attached pictures show, a simple mesh with no face groups and only two surface groups, Trim which has a row of polygons from the hem, sleeves and neckline, and Cloth which has the rest of the polygons, I should point out that the mesh is also quad poly.
I used the TU to rig it for Genesis and once rigged I fitted it to Genesis before I saved it with "Figure/Prop Asset", I then made a copy of that DUF file and added the dynamic changes to it, that gave me a standard conforming dress, and a "hybrid" dress. The standard dress works just the same as every other one, dial up a morph in the figure and watch your dress get shrink wrapped to it, the hybrid dress does exactly the same until you hit "drape", then you get what you see in my pictures.
The single drape (pic 1) works from the posed and morphed position of the mesh, and if you add a smoothing modifier it will also work around that, giving even better results, the animated drape (pic 2) does exactly the same, just takes a bit longer especially if you have a smoothing modifier applied.
I haven't saved the single drape as a scene yet, but I have done that with the animated drape, and the good news is that the drape sticks.
It's the material zones we control the dynamics by, so a simple mesh with a couple of zones will work way better than a complex mesh with a couple of zones, so for the time being hand made dynamics should use the KISS method.
That looks great.
Great examples, BeJaymac.
To DAZ:
From a companies standpoint in bed with another, which is dictating the relationship of the plugin, I can see, and agree with your views.
However, from a customers standpoint, those who have been waiting years for a creation module add-on to the plugin, or the very least, a way to add "clothify" to the existing plugin, and neither ever manifesting. Then, to find out a simple modification to a DAZ Studio format file is all that is needed for "clothify" to work within the plugin is a little disheartening to the earnestness of your relationship with Optitex.
I guess I was just naive in believing that perhaps it was an impossible task to achieve, but that they were at least trying to accomplish the task.
Renpatsu:
I can confirm it does work with the basic cloth plugin. Without the advanced plugin, one can not change the cloth parameters, but it can be done by re-modifying the DUF file.
Now, I just need to learn how all the different parameters affect the cloth drape, and adjust accordingly. I used the settings from the PoC tut, and it turned my Marvelous Designer cloth mesh into being heavily cling-wrapped in spots, and also way to much of a gravity effect on the loose fitting parts.
It's not all bad news for Optitex... this work-around gives me an actual reason to want the advanced dynamics plugin. Chances are it won't work for all circumstances since many clothing items have volume to them, which can make cloth dynamics act strangely if Poser's cloth room is any indication. It's hard to deny that it's a very tempting prospect though, and I might try a few experiments of my own.
I'll certainly be purchasing a legit clothify plugin when the chances arise (there's a thread with some examples of some progress to that end). You're exactly right, too. This method does not work with anything more complex that a single panel of cloth (at least based on my own meager successes)
Hmmmm... I'll have to try playing with this new information sometime in the future. I've never played with dynamic cloth is Daz before, it should be neat to see how well it runs the simulations compared to things like Marvelous Designer or 3D Coat.
I know this thread has been dormant for a while, but since I really want to try and adapt some conforming clothing to a dynamic hybrid for some personal work, not for resale, I was wondering if anyone has come up with a definitive solution. There seems to be a lot of people that attempted it and it appeared that most felt a few additional tweaks might be necessary, but I haven't seen any posts on it at all.
Looking at the legal issue, it still appears someone could make a script that could be given away for free with the restriction that it's only for personal use and can't be used to modify any item for sale irregardless of the original author's stance on the item being modified.
I'd love to also see or try to make myself an animation with a hybrid item on Genesis or a G2 model.
IANAL, but it seems to me that even a script would still be a derivative work. Whether it's given away for free or sold doesn't affect the legality.
A script would not be derivative. What it changes would be. At least that's what I've found from any kind of modification script/software I've seen for other items. It would also void any warranty, but since the item being modified doesn't have one and it's not technically software, but a static model, it should be fine.
Since the script is reverse engineered from the output of the Optitex tools, I would think that would be a derivative work.
Mike the output from Optitex is an item that's made of multiple parts stitched together, none of our conformers are made that way, so a simple script wouldn't be able to replicate that, it would have to be a full blown toolkit/big plugin to even get close.
One of the guys that found the hack also made a script that would add the "hack" changes to an item, but after seeing the DAZ response to the Optitex hissy fit they slipped back into the shadows and took their stuff with them.
I could see why someone wouldn't want to tempt fate with a lawsuit for Daz, so I can't blame him for taking it with him. Normally a company would just issue a cease and desist letter first and they may have done just that. I doubt we'll ever be privy to that information. It's a shame, but I'm sure Daz has to do that based on the agreement they signed with Optitex. However, if it's not Daz's responsibility to protect it, I highly doubt Optitex would lift a finger since this would not offer any benefits to anyone trying to make clothing work in the 3D fashion industry. It's no where near their core business model and wouldn't hurt their bottom line at this point. The hybrid model it makes is inferior to a true dynamic cloth item and is simply a hack to try and get a small measure of dynamic ability out of something clearly not designed for it.
I think what this demonstrates though is the lengths people will go to try and up their game in Daz Studio. It's clear we want more in the Dynamic Clothing world and the lack of support and response from Daz makes people look to other ways to satisfy their interest. People won't go to such lengths if two factors weren't involved: demand and too high a price. If a tool existed to allow us to make dynamic clothing that didn't require a mortgage payment each month, then there would clearly be more options to satisfy the demand. If there wasn't a demand for it, no one would try to create a hack.
I've never coded any script in Daz and after looking at the 'hack', it doesn't appear to be overly difficult. I'll have a lawyer friend look at the possible ramifications of creating a free tool for the strict purpose of personal use, along with he necessary legal mumbo jumbo to try and protect the agreement Daz and Optitex have. If it's not possible, I'll let you know why to try and remove any ambiguity we still have on the subject. Just like the other guy, I'm not willing to go into debt for this as I'll just use it for myself.
Dynamic clothing was popular during the P3-P5 era due to the limitations of conforming clothes at the time (esp. skirts and long sleeves). As more and more detail to the mesh became possible, along with advancements such as adjustment morphs and movement handles, dynamics became more and more unpopular. Today much of the higher quality stuff out there has clothing creases and even seams (the last one I find incredibly annoying since I like to do scifi stuff that isn't pure bodysuits, and clothing far in the future most certainly won't have seams! Wish all clothing had a "seam" morph that you could dial on and off.... Or maybe two, so that you could control seam width as well...)