Daz Studio Pro BETA - version 4.20.0.17! (UPDATED)

Imago · November 2021

Richard Haseltine said:

Broken in what way?

I said these very things so many times that I feel truly dumb repeating these again...

Anyway...

Timeline: The triangles can't be moved unless you create a keyframe with the "Create keyframe" button on the timeline with "node recurse" activated or you create a key on the "cast shadows" line. On complex animations this means do this on every prop in the scene in every point I could need to move something. Some times copy/pasting the keyframes messess things so much that DAZ Studio crashes. The only solution is to select the keyframes, set them as "linear" and back to the desired tweener WITHOUT moving the scrubber.
Puppeteer: Doesn't register aliases and some custom morphs. Many times I create a dot, recall it and half of the face of my char doesn't change. It doesn't register some of the DAZ's morphs as well.
Autofit: Clothes and hair gets deformed, misplaced or weirdly resized when fitted on a char which has one or more of the "sizes" values not at their default 100%. If I try to make the chest bigger to create a troll or similar, the hairs sinks in his skull or fly up half meter from the head. This doesn't happen in 4.12.
G3/8's IKs: They are so broken that they require three times the time and effort to pose and animate than G1. If I pin a foot and move the hips a bit, the knees seems to try to reach Mars. If I rotate the hips about 179° on Y axis, it starts spinning like a carousel.
D-Formers: If I try to modify a D-Former on a char which isn't on the very center of the world and at default rotation, the controls gets completely scrambled, if I pull forward the char gets deformed backwards.
Undo Stack: If I move a camera or a prop and try to undo that, they doesn't return to the previous state in 60% of times, but the Undo is "used".
Frame selected: If a prop isn't at the very center of the world, the viewport gets skyrocketed so far from the selected prop that it's hard to see it on the screen.
Add level of details: Creating a new one, even saving it hundred times, if I reload the char/scene that contains a new LOD, it isn't there.
3Delight: Lots and lots of warnings about something that can't be accessed and I can't understand what they mean. This slows down a lot the rendering.
Filament: The shadows gets cut away based on the viewing angle and postion of the viewer. The environment map is incredibly pixelated even using high definition HDRs.

I said these things a lot of times here and at the helpdesk.

I'm stuck with 4.12.0.86 since its release because it's the only one which doesn't have all those issues...

johndoe_36eb90b0 · November 2021

Richard Haseltine said:

The change in Iray is deliberate, and will presumably remain, as the old behavior was not physically correct.

That's not really helpful.

Physically correct or not, the new Iray behavior breaks so many products, some of them (like ghost lights) central to everyone's workflow.

Majority of the broken products probably won't be updated by the original vendors because that would break them for users who haven't updated DAZ Studio (often because they can't due to older hardware no longer being supported).

That leaves end users, 99% of whom have no clue on how shaders work to try to fix it in all their scene files they accumulated over years.

The least NVIDIA could do if they won't provide some sort of legacy mode is to provide us with a detailed, step-by-step, instructions for DAZ Studio Iray implementation on how to get the same visual results we had before the change.

nonesuch00 · November 2021

kyoto kid said:

...so when I checked back to see if there was a 4.16 essentials package I found this in the Install Manager, I clicked on the Information icon and it pulled up the Daz Documentation page that I also included in the SS attachment below.

So there's already a 4.16 General release? Not going to overwrite the 4.15 one if the shader bug is still there.

Sorry, no, that is an update to DAZ Studio itself, not a package of a new content type essentials, eg, like the earlier dForce. Maybe the new content type is the ability to save Power Pose and open Power Pose settings? Richard mentioned Power Pose.

VEGA · November 2021

Can someone who updated to the latest DAZ with iray 2021 test if the denoiser still ignores normal/bump maps or is that finally implemented.

Richard Haseltine · November 2021

Imago said:

Richard Haseltine said:

Broken in what way?

I said these very things so many times that I feel truly dumb repeating these again...

Anyway...

Timeline: The triangles can't be moved unless you create a keyframe with the "Create keyframe" button on the timeline with "node recurse" activated or you create a key on the "cast shadows" line. On complex animations this means do this on every prop in the scene in every point I could need to move something. Some times copy/pasting the keyframes messess things so much that DAZ Studio crashes. The only solution is to select the keyframes, set them as "linear" and back to the desired tweener WITHOUT moving the scrubber.

I can't immediately reproduce this:

Create primitive
Use the Viewport Gizmo to slightly displace it (to give it a frame 0 key without using Add Key)
Go to frame 5 and move it around a bit, frame 10 and move, frame 15 and move
Marquee-select the X transaltion keys in the Dope Sheet
Drag to move - they move

Puppeteer: Doesn't register aliases and some custom morphs. Many times I create a dot, recall it and half of the face of my char doesn't change. It doesn't register some of the DAZ's morphs as well.
Autofit: Clothes and hair gets deformed, misplaced or weirdly resized when fitted on a char which has one or more of the "sizes" values not at their default 100%. If I try to make the chest bigger to create a troll or similar, the hairs sinks in his skull or fly up half meter from the head. This doesn't happen in 4.12.
G3/8's IKs: They are so broken that they require three times the time and effort to pose and animate than G1. If I pin a foot and move the hips a bit, the knees seems to try to reach Mars. If I rotate the hips about 179° on Y axis, it starts spinning like a carousel.
D-Formers: If I try to modify a D-Former on a char which isn't on the very center of the world and at default rotation, the controls gets completely scrambled, if I pull forward the char gets deformed backwards.

dForms work on the base geometry - I agree this can be annoying when trying to fix a posed figure, but it isn't a bug. I use a weight map, which targets vertices directly, to at least reduce the compelxity

Undo Stack: If I move a camera or a prop and try to undo that, they doesn't return to the previous state in 60% of times, but the Undo is "used".

I don't see this, can you give more exact steps to reproduce?

Frame selected: If a prop isn't at the very center of the world, the viewport gets skyrocketed so far from the selected prop that it's hard to see it on the screen.

This is a known (and reported) issue - having the camera point more-or-less at the origin when you frame reduces the impact of the issue.

Add level of details: Creating a new one, even saving it hundred times, if I reload the char/scene that contains a new LOD, it isn't there.
3Delight: Lots and lots of warnings about something that can't be accessed and I can't understand what they mean. This slows down a lot the rendering.

The DSON Format does not support LoDs, DS still does. I agree this is annoying, but it isn't strictly broken since things are behaving according to spec.

Filament: The shadows gets cut away based on the viewing angle and postion of the viewer. The environment map is incredibly pixelated even using high definition HDRs.

I said these things a lot of times here and at the helpdesk.

I'm stuck with 4.12.0.86 since its release because it's the only one which doesn't have all those issues...

Richard Haseltine · November 2021

johndoe_36eb90b0 said:

Richard Haseltine said:

The change in Iray is deliberate, and will presumably remain, as the old behavior was not physically correct.

That's not really helpful.

Physically correct or not, the new Iray behavior breaks so many products, some of them (like ghost lights) central to everyone's workflow.

Majority of the broken products probably won't be updated by the original vendors because that would break them for users who haven't updated DAZ Studio (often because they can't due to older hardware no longer being supported).

That leaves end users, 99% of whom have no clue on how shaders work to try to fix it in all their scene files they accumulated over years.

The least NVIDIA could do if they won't provide some sort of legacy mode is to provide us with a detailed, step-by-step, instructions for DAZ Studio Iray implementation on how to get the same visual results we had before the change.

The change log does show that Daz is trying to mitigate the impact of the change. I agree that allowing some of these non-physical behaviours, at least as an option 9e.g. through the advanced node properties function) would be useful, but all Daz can do is make representations to nVidia.

skboa · November 2021

Richard Haseltine said:

Imago said:

Richard Haseltine said:

Broken in what way?

I said these very things so many times that I feel truly dumb repeating these again...

Anyway...

Timeline: The triangles can't be moved unless you create a keyframe with the "Create keyframe" button on the timeline with "node recurse" activated or you create a key on the "cast shadows" line. On complex animations this means do this on every prop in the scene in every point I could need to move something. Some times copy/pasting the keyframes messess things so much that DAZ Studio crashes. The only solution is to select the keyframes, set them as "linear" and back to the desired tweener WITHOUT moving the scrubber.

I can't immediately reproduce this:

Create primitive

Use the Viewport Gizmo to slightly displace it (to give it a frame 0 key without using Add Key)

Go to frame 5 and move it around a bit, frame 10 and move, frame 15 and move

Marquee-select the X transaltion keys in the Dope Sheet

Drag to move - they move

Puppeteer: Doesn't register aliases and some custom morphs. Many times I create a dot, recall it and half of the face of my char doesn't change. It doesn't register some of the DAZ's morphs as well.
Autofit: Clothes and hair gets deformed, misplaced or weirdly resized when fitted on a char which has one or more of the "sizes" values not at their default 100%. If I try to make the chest bigger to create a troll or similar, the hairs sinks in his skull or fly up half meter from the head. This doesn't happen in 4.12.
G3/8's IKs: They are so broken that they require three times the time and effort to pose and animate than G1. If I pin a foot and move the hips a bit, the knees seems to try to reach Mars. If I rotate the hips about 179° on Y axis, it starts spinning like a carousel.
D-Formers: If I try to modify a D-Former on a char which isn't on the very center of the world and at default rotation, the controls gets completely scrambled, if I pull forward the char gets deformed backwards.

dForms work on the base geometry - I agree this can be annoying when trying to fix a posed figure, but it isn't a bug. I use a weight map, which targets vertices directly, to at least reduce the compelxity

Undo Stack: If I move a camera or a prop and try to undo that, they doesn't return to the previous state in 60% of times, but the Undo is "used".

I don't see this, can you give more exact steps to reproduce?

Frame selected: If a prop isn't at the very center of the world, the viewport gets skyrocketed so far from the selected prop that it's hard to see it on the screen.

This is a known (and reported) issue - having the camera point more-or-less at the origin when you frame reduces the impact of the issue.

Add level of details: Creating a new one, even saving it hundred times, if I reload the char/scene that contains a new LOD, it isn't there.
3Delight: Lots and lots of warnings about something that can't be accessed and I can't understand what they mean. This slows down a lot the rendering.

The DSON Format does not support LoDs, DS still does. I agree this is annoying, but it isn't strictly broken since things are behaving according to spec.

Filament: The shadows gets cut away based on the viewing angle and postion of the viewer. The environment map is incredibly pixelated even using high definition HDRs.

I said these things a lot of times here and at the helpdesk.

I'm stuck with 4.12.0.86 since its release because it's the only one which doesn't have all those issues...

We had the discussion about animation and some of these bugs not so long ago, most of these problems have been mentioned by several people. I myself have confirmed some of these bugs, undoing camera changes for example...

That's exactly what I mean, people mention problems, several people, not just one person > nothing happens. Some of these bugs or "features" exist for years now, the IK problem is well known for a long time and for the others, I doubt that official testers or the Daz devs don't know about at least most them.

Leonides02 · November 2021

skboa said:

We had the discussion about animation and some of these bugs not so long ago, most of these problems have been mentioned by several people. I myself have confirmed some of these bugs, undoing camera changes for example...

That's exactly what I mean, people mention problems, several people, not just one person > nothing happens. Some of these bugs or "features" exist for years now, the IK problem is well known for a long time and for the others, I doubt that official testers or the Daz devs don't know about at least most them.

And then when you bring them up again, you are gaslit by folks acting as if there are no issues.

nonesuch00 · November 2021

There is a bug when I add the candle holder from the nightclothing pack. DAZ Studio no longer writes to the render canvas. Very weird.

See this post. Request #394627

DAZ CS is already looking and didn't have a problem. Probably because they develop and test using nVidia RTX 3090 24GB GPUs and I render using CPU rendering with an AMD Ryzen 7 5700G APU. I sent them my scene though.

3CPO · November 2021

Richard Haseltine said:
............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
also see the thread on Iray versions https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/529616). The change in Iray is deliberate, and will presumably remain, as the old behavior was not physically correct.

First off, thank you for pointing me to those logs. I had read them already and I am currently no wiser than before. As far as the statement saying that the Iray change was deliberate as the old behaviour was deemed physically incorrect simply baffles me. Who deemed them as incorrect and based on what? Some scientific experiments, eyeballing, subjective artistic perception? And by who? By scientists at Nvidia or by Daz Studio developers?

Looks to me, there is a growing number of disatisfied Studio users and Daz customers, admittedly "older" and "veteran" discerning users, who do know what they are doing and talking about, that spent time and effort to test your software and report broken functionality, in the (vain) hope it will get fixed. And speaking of free software, I am among those who paid for the "Pro" version when Daz decided to go that route long ago and then changed its mind...So I, like many others, do get frustrated when in spite of all this, you don't seem to listen to the feedback of your users and customers that helped bringing you where you are today. Instead of giving us what we need , you seem to insist to give us what you think we need and leave broken things under the rug.

Sorry if all this seems like a rant as it is not intended to be, just stating the obvious as this state of facts is getting old as well. So IMHO, you should stop adding complexity and concentrate on stability, reliability and consistency in results and make Studio enjoyable to use.

Richard Haseltine · November 2021

3CPO said:

Richard Haseltine said:
............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
also see the thread on Iray versions https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/529616). The change in Iray is deliberate, and will presumably remain, as the old behavior was not physically correct.

First off, thank you for pointing me to those logs. I had read them already and I am currently no wiser than before. As far as the statement saying that the Iray change was deliberate as the old behaviour was deemed physically incorrect simply baffles me. Who deemed them as incorrect and based on what? Some scientific experiments, eyeballing, subjective artistic perception? And by who? By scientists at Nvidia or by Daz Studio developers?

Looks to me, there is a growing number of disatisfied Studio users and Daz customers, admittedly "older" and "veteran" discerning users, who do know what they are doing and talking about, that spent time and effort to test your software and report broken functionality, in the (vain) hope it will get fixed. And speaking of free software, I am among those who paid for the "Pro" version when Daz decided to go that route long ago and then changed its mind...So I, like many others, do get frustrated when in spite of all this, you don't seem to listen to the feedback of your users and customers that helped bringing you where you are today. Instead of giving us what we need , you seem to insist to give us what you think we need and leave broken things under the rug.

Sorry if all this seems like a rant as it is not intended to be, just stating the obvious as this state of facts is getting old as well. So IMHO, you should stop adding complexity and concentrate on stability, reliability and consistency in results and make Studio enjoyable to use.

Physically inccorrect would prsumably be based on optics, so on reference materials produced by optical physicists and the like. Iray is nVidia's tool, Daz is a customer and so can't simply decide on the path of development.

Richard Haseltine · November 2021

skboa said:

Richard Haseltine said:

Imago said:

Richard Haseltine said:

Broken in what way?

I said these very things so many times that I feel truly dumb repeating these again...

Anyway...

Timeline: The triangles can't be moved unless you create a keyframe with the "Create keyframe" button on the timeline with "node recurse" activated or you create a key on the "cast shadows" line. On complex animations this means do this on every prop in the scene in every point I could need to move something. Some times copy/pasting the keyframes messess things so much that DAZ Studio crashes. The only solution is to select the keyframes, set them as "linear" and back to the desired tweener WITHOUT moving the scrubber.

I can't immediately reproduce this:

Create primitive

Use the Viewport Gizmo to slightly displace it (to give it a frame 0 key without using Add Key)

Go to frame 5 and move it around a bit, frame 10 and move, frame 15 and move

Marquee-select the X transaltion keys in the Dope Sheet

Drag to move - they move

Puppeteer: Doesn't register aliases and some custom morphs. Many times I create a dot, recall it and half of the face of my char doesn't change. It doesn't register some of the DAZ's morphs as well.
Autofit: Clothes and hair gets deformed, misplaced or weirdly resized when fitted on a char which has one or more of the "sizes" values not at their default 100%. If I try to make the chest bigger to create a troll or similar, the hairs sinks in his skull or fly up half meter from the head. This doesn't happen in 4.12.
G3/8's IKs: They are so broken that they require three times the time and effort to pose and animate than G1. If I pin a foot and move the hips a bit, the knees seems to try to reach Mars. If I rotate the hips about 179° on Y axis, it starts spinning like a carousel.
D-Formers: If I try to modify a D-Former on a char which isn't on the very center of the world and at default rotation, the controls gets completely scrambled, if I pull forward the char gets deformed backwards.

dForms work on the base geometry - I agree this can be annoying when trying to fix a posed figure, but it isn't a bug. I use a weight map, which targets vertices directly, to at least reduce the compelxity

Undo Stack: If I move a camera or a prop and try to undo that, they doesn't return to the previous state in 60% of times, but the Undo is "used".

I don't see this, can you give more exact steps to reproduce?

Frame selected: If a prop isn't at the very center of the world, the viewport gets skyrocketed so far from the selected prop that it's hard to see it on the screen.

This is a known (and reported) issue - having the camera point more-or-less at the origin when you frame reduces the impact of the issue.

Add level of details: Creating a new one, even saving it hundred times, if I reload the char/scene that contains a new LOD, it isn't there.
3Delight: Lots and lots of warnings about something that can't be accessed and I can't understand what they mean. This slows down a lot the rendering.

The DSON Format does not support LoDs, DS still does. I agree this is annoying, but it isn't strictly broken since things are behaving according to spec.

Filament: The shadows gets cut away based on the viewing angle and postion of the viewer. The environment map is incredibly pixelated even using high definition HDRs.

I said these things a lot of times here and at the helpdesk.

I'm stuck with 4.12.0.86 since its release because it's the only one which doesn't have all those issues...

We had the discussion about animation and some of these bugs not so long ago, most of these problems have been mentioned by several people. I myself have confirmed some of these bugs, undoing camera changes for example...

That's exactly what I mean, people mention problems, several people, not just one person > nothing happens. Some of these bugs or "features" exist for years now, the IK problem is well known for a long time and for the others, I doubt that official testers or the Daz devs don't know about at least most them.

Have you reported the issues, with steps to reproduce, to Daz? Mentioning them in the forums isn't reporting them.

kyoto kid · November 2021

johndoe_36eb90b0 said:

Richard Haseltine said:

The change in Iray is deliberate, and will presumably remain, as the old behavior was not physically correct.

That's not really helpful.

Physically correct or not, the new Iray behavior breaks so many products, some of them (like ghost lights) central to everyone's workflow.

Majority of the broken products probably won't be updated by the original vendors because that would break them for users who haven't updated DAZ Studio (often because they can't due to older hardware no longer being supported).

That leaves end users, 99% of whom have no clue on how shaders work to try to fix it in all their scene files they accumulated over years.

The least NVIDIA could do if they won't provide some sort of legacy mode is to provide us with a detailed, step-by-step, instructions for DAZ Studio Iray implementation on how to get the same visual results we had before the change.

...apparently UHT2 and Skin Builder are broken as well. I looked to see if any render tone mapping, specular, or surfaces settings were off from what I have in 4.15.0.30 and none were. The only thing I can think of is it must have something to do with an error in the shader mixer regarding those two utilities, but that literally is a "can or worms" I'd rather not mess with.

escrandall · November 2021

I don't see a section for the 4.16 release.. I installed, but the beta version of measure metrics doesn't show up in the panes section.

memcneil70 · November 2021

Okay, I had a chance to bring up all my D|S systems and a comparisons shows that up to the last update for both released and Beta, the panes worked. I used 'Scene Info' as a test on all my versions and except for the latest update on my desktop's Beta which has the new 4.16.1.2 installed, when I clicked the tab with the name on the pane with my cursor, a little box appears and I am able to move the pane to either side or the top of my scene pane and it snaps into place. But with the new 4.16.1.2, no little box appears. The only thing I have found is by accident now, if I right click the background off the tab's name, an option to 'Add Pane (Tab)' shows up and it installs a pane.

By dumb luck, I managed to right click in my side bar and it showed that 'Add Pane (Tab)'. So we can't add from the Window/Panes(Tabs) anymore it seems. Unless you need a one-off.

Okay, so I am going to avoid this update on my other D|S setups for now. I don't have the time for hidden traps and non-working features that I liked and knew how to use.

The RED Crown · November 2021

The only solution is for DAZ to make a survey what the customer wants from features and what he doesn't want to get rid of the program's problems. If it continues like this, we will not reach anything.

cridgit · November 2021

Redacted

Richard Haseltine · November 2021

memcneil70 said:

Okay, I had a chance to bring up all my D|S systems and a comparisons shows that up to the last update for both released and Beta, the panes worked. I used 'Scene Info' as a test on all my versions and except for the latest update on my desktop's Beta which has the new 4.16.1.2 installed, when I clicked the tab with the name on the pane with my cursor, a little box appears and I am able to move the pane to either side or the top of my scene pane and it snaps into place. But with the new 4.16.1.2, no little box appears. The only thing I have found is by accident now, if I right click the background off the tab's name, an option to 'Add Pane (Tab)' shows up and it installs a pane.

By dumb luck, I managed to right click in my side bar and it showed that 'Add Pane (Tab)'. So we can't add from the Window/Panes(Tabs) anymore it seems. Unless you need a one-off.

Okay, so I am going to avoid this update on my other D|S setups for now. I don't have the time for hidden traps and non-working features that I liked and knew how to use.

I'm not seeing an issue with dragging a pane's tab to add it to an existing group or dragging by the top bar to dock it in an empty space.

jbowler · November 2021

Richard Haseltine said:

I can't immediately reproduce this:

Create primitive

Use the Viewport Gizmo to slightly displace it (to give it a frame 0 key without using Add Key)

Go to frame 5 and move it around a bit, frame 10 and move, frame 15 and move

Marquee-select the X transaltion keys in the Dope Sheet

Drag to move - they move

Easy to repro - just drop step (4)

jbowler · November 2021

jbowler said:

Richard Haseltine said:

I can't immediately reproduce this:

Create primitive

Use the Viewport Gizmo to slightly displace it (to give it a frame 0 key without using Add Key)

Go to frame 5 and move it around a bit, frame 10 and move, frame 15 and move

Marquee-select the X transaltion keys in the Dope Sheet

Drag to move - they move

Easy to repro - just drop step (4)

Oh, and to rub salt into the open wound, click select isn't working either:

Create primitive (any)
TRSOAH key frame 0
set the current frame to 15 (anything other than 0 or 1)
TRSOAH the new key frame
T drag to an intermediate key frame
Repeat, several times, mess around a bit.
OBSERVE: T click select works
OBSERVE: TRSOAH click select doesn't work on some, but not all, of the keyframes (they all have T, so it should work everywhere).

Probably the same bug. I keep wondering why you always insist on using marquee selection; it does work on the click-unselectable keyframes.

jbowler · November 2021

jbowler said:

Oh, and to rub salt into the open wound, click select isn't working either:

More salt:

As above, but with the default timeline create a TRSOAH keyframe at Frame 30 (the end of the displayed timeline).
Click-select the Frame 30 key.
Click-select an earlier key.
OBSERVE: the Frame 30 key is still highlighted.
DRAG the Frame 30 key.
OBSERVE: both keys get dragged (so it wasn't a highlight error, it really is still selected!)
Drag the two keys back.
Marquee select F30
OBSERVE: the earlier key is deselected, the marquee select works.
Now click (or marquee) select an earlier key.
OBSERVE: F30 is still highlit.
Click (etc) select a different earlier key
OBSERVE: F30 is still highlit but the previously (step 10) selected key is not.

In general it is borked. There is no way of deselecting the key on the last key frame and frequently there is no way of selecting earlier keys with click select. Although marquee select always works for selection it doesn't seem to ever work for deselection of the last key.

I work round it by setting the "range" to one more than the actual timeline, then the last one can be deselected. This would appear to be an off-by-one error.

The RED Crown · November 2021

We are tired of your useless products You should jump to version 5 or fix version 4 .

Leana · November 2021

cridgit said:

kyoto kid said:

...do you have a copy of the installer?

Hi

I installed it through DIM, all I can see in DIM is 4.16. Does DIM throw away the older version installer (4.15) or is there some trick to find it through DIM?

DIM can only download the latest version. If you have a backup of the previous install files you can reinstall the previous version, but that’s the only way.

kyoto kid · November 2021

...it depends on what version of 4.15 you were using the 4.15.0.30 general release or one fo the later betas and which 4.16 one you were downloading. .

As you likely know you can run a General Release and a Public Beta concurrently, but not two of the same type of release: Beta & Beta or General & General at the same time..

I know it seems a bit confusing, it was to me as well as I almost downloaded the 4.16.0.3 release by mistake as I didn't see the Beta version because I hadn't reset the download filter to include Public Releases. I didn't expect a Beta and General release of the same version at the same time.

My head hurts from all this. Need a nightcap & then to bed.

Leana · November 2021

The new beta and general release are not the same version, general release is 4.16.0.3 (apparently the same as 4.15.0.30 general release + meta mixer support) and beta is 4.16.1.2 (based on 4.15.1 beta)

Imago · November 2021

Richard Haseltine said:

I can't immediately reproduce this:

Create primitive

Use the Viewport Gizmo to slightly displace it (to give it a frame 0 key without using Add Key)

Go to frame 5 and move it around a bit, frame 10 and move, frame 15 and move

Marquee-select the X transaltion keys in the Dope Sheet

Drag to move - they move

Richard, I'm talking about the TRIANGLES in the timeline, the root of the keyframes. I know I can immediately move the circles, but just think do that on a char with multiple clothes and GeoGrafts fitted to it and some prop parented... Try yourself to make any changes in them with the "Only cirlcles are movable" mode, then tell me anyone can make these changes in seconds.

Why I can move the triangles and modify my animation easily in 4.12 and everything is broken in 4.16? Just grab a copy of 4.12 and make the test.

The autofit works perfectly in 4.12, I can change everything on my chars and the clothes and hair will fit correctly always. Why I can't do this in 4.16 too? This happens especially when using G1 but it happened with G8 as well, try to make the chest at 50% and fit some clothes on the char in 4.12 then try the same in 4.16.

The undo stack is a nightmare, especially with cameras, every time I make a slight change or move it by mistake and hit the "undo" button, the camera doesn't return on the previous posistion. Here too, create a cam and move it around a bit until fill the undo stack, then try using it, move again the cam, reuse undo and again with the cam.

As Skboa said, even reporting the issues multiple times nothing changes... Devs simply thinks "he's noob" and ignores the report... But I'm using DAZ Studio since 11 years now, I guess I can understand when things stops working correctly.

You say "have you reported this to DAZ"... I did it, multiple times in the last three years... and in three years nothing has been fixed. I even got a "We will not fix it because people uses IRay" when I asked about the "Frame selected" bug which is pretty dumb in my humble opinion. It's an interface bug totally unrelated to render engines...

takezo_3001 · November 2021

cridgit said:

kyoto kid said:

...do you have a copy of the installer?

Hi

I installed it through DIM, all I can see in DIM is 4.16. Does DIM throw away the older version installer (4.15) or is there some trick to find it through DIM?

You have to go to DIM's downloads folder within the program itself and copy both the .dsx and zip files of the gen release/beta plus their plugins to another folder as they will be overwritten by the new general release/beta versions and their plugins, making any roll back to an earlier version impossible...

Richard Haseltine · November 2021

jbowler said:

jbowler said:

Oh, and to rub salt into the open wound, click select isn't working either:

More salt:

As above, but with the default timeline create a TRSOAH keyframe at Frame 30 (the end of the displayed timeline).

Click-select the Frame 30 key.

Click-select an earlier key.

OBSERVE: the Frame 30 key is still highlighted.

DRAG the Frame 30 key.

OBSERVE: both keys get dragged (so it wasn't a highlight error, it really is still selected!)

Drag the two keys back.

Marquee select F30

OBSERVE: the earlier key is deselected, the marquee select works.

Now click (or marquee) select an earlier key.

OBSERVE: F30 is still highlit.

Click (etc) select a different earlier key

OBSERVE: F30 is still highlit but the previously (step 10) selected key is not.

In general it is borked. There is no way of deselecting the key on the last key frame and frequently there is no way of selecting earlier keys with click select. Although marquee select always works for selection it doesn't seem to ever work for deselection of the last key.

I work round it by setting the "range" to one more than the actual timeline, then the last one can be deselected. This would appear to be an off-by-one error.

I'm sorry but I don't understand what you are doing here.

twraven · November 2021

Imago,

Imago said:

Richard Haseltine said:

I can't immediately reproduce this:

Create primitive

Use the Viewport Gizmo to slightly displace it (to give it a frame 0 key without using Add Key)

Go to frame 5 and move it around a bit, frame 10 and move, frame 15 and move

Marquee-select the X transaltion keys in the Dope Sheet

Drag to move - they move

Richard, I'm talking about the TRIANGLES in the timeline, the root of the keyframes. I know I can immediately move the circles, but just think do that on a char with multiple clothes and GeoGrafts fitted to it and some prop parented... Try yourself to make any changes in them with the "Only cirlcles are movable" mode, then tell me anyone can make these changes in seconds.

Why I can move the triangles and modify my animation easily in 4.12 and everything is broken in 4.16? Just grab a copy of 4.12 and make the test.

The autofit works perfectly in 4.12, I can change everything on my chars and the clothes and hair will fit correctly always. Why I can't do this in 4.16 too? This happens especially when using G1 but it happened with G8 as well, try to make the chest at 50% and fit some clothes on the char in 4.12 then try the same in 4.16.

I"d like to try and reproduce this. I am not experiencing the same problem, but would you be able to tell me the content that you are using that causes this problem?

The undo stack is a nightmare, especially with cameras, every time I make a slight change or move it by mistake and hit the "undo" button, the camera doesn't return on the previous posistion. Here too, create a cam and move it around a bit until fill the undo stack, then try using it, move again the cam, reuse undo and again with the cam.

As Skboa said, even reporting the issues multiple times nothing changes... Devs simply thinks "he's noob" and ignores the report... But I'm using DAZ Studio since 11 years now, I guess I can understand when things stops working correctly.

You say "have you reported this to DAZ"... I did it, multiple times in the last three years... and in three years nothing has been fixed. I even got a "We will not fix it because people uses IRay" when I asked about the "Frame selected" bug which is pretty dumb in my humble opinion. It's an interface bug totally unrelated to render engines...

nicstt · November 2021

luka said:

Hi there,

I don't know if anyone reported this or had this kind of issues, but my Ghostlights are not working once I updated to 4.15.1.91 or 4.15.1.96. They are working on 4.15.0.30 and 4.15.1.72 so hopefully someone knows what's going on. I'm using a 3090 with the latest Studio drivers 472.47 and windows 10 v21H1.

I just use tonemapping more now ghost lights don't work.

I'm finding I actually prefer it.

I'm still cheating of course, but it's art and I can pretend I'm an artist because of said cheating.

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