Daz Studio Pro BETA - version 4.20.0.17! (*UPDATED*)

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Comments

  • Richard Haseltine said:

    It's by design - the luminance is now multiplied by the alpha, which is physically correct.

    Does that change how Iray canvases and LPEs work as well? Can you point us to documentation for that change?

  • jardine said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    VEGA said:

    gerster said:

    I just tested the Beta of 4.16.1.2.

    It sees that Ghost Lights are unusuable. With a low opacity, the light looses also on brightness. frown

    It's either DAZ bug or Iray bug because they do work, they create little artifacts when opacity is set to the one from Ghost Light Kit, but output luminance = set luminance * opacity. If your luminance is less than 100 kcd/m^2 you can just copy opacity and past it like "/ opacity value" in the luminance, if the number is too big it get scuffed. It's pretty stupid whoever made it like this. The artifacts might be due to enormous luminance, bacuse you can get them even in older Iray.

    It's by design - the luminance is now multiplied by the alpha, which is physically correct. We can only hope that nVidia see the benefit of the old way of working and reenable it, though soem kind of additional setting I would expect rather than making it the default.

    can this be addressed with a script of some kind?  pretty much every iray emissive prop or light in the store is going to need to be reworked otherwise.  a scene that was well-lit by candleight in 4.10-4.15 is dark, dark, dark.

    I would think a script might be able to address it for actual ghost lights, checkign for emission not black and opacity very small then applying the Advanced Node properties and adjusting settings. Other emissive objects should bne, I would think, be affected since they won't have low opacity.

    this de=lighting effect seems to cut spotlight luminance in something like half, too. 

    I'm, not aware that spotlights have changed, but there is a chnage in the way topcoat (I think) is working that may be what you are seeing. If so it was again correcting a "bad" behaviour, so the change was deliberate.

    i haven't seen how the new beta handles daytime HDRs yet.  but so far...i don't think i have a single interior scene that seems likely to render nice light and shadow without issue under this new render model.   ghostlights. X'd.  emissive lights and props. X'd  spotlights, X'd. 

    j

     

  • Padone said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    It's by design - the luminance is now multiplied by the alpha, which is physically correct.

    Just to clarify. I understand that iray is designed by nvidia. But the uber shader is designed by daz, isn't this a uber shader thing ?

    As I understand it it is the way Iray treats the combination, not something a shader can override (other, perhaps, than by adjusting the light's power to compensate for the diminution by opacity - but I don't know there would be a reliable way to figure out which surfaces were old and needed adjusting and which new and should taken literally.

    Also the uber shader does already allow for a number of non physically correct options, as colored reflections and materials with a high roughness and a high specularity for example. As well as possibly the entire specular/glossiness workflow. And that's one of the difficulties when converting to blender that's more strict as for pbr rules. Are they going to remove those features as well to be physically correct ?

  • johndoe_36eb90b0 said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    It's by design - the luminance is now multiplied by the alpha, which is physically correct.

    Does that change how Iray canvases and LPEs work as well? Can you point us to documentation for that change?

    The Iray change log is psoted here https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/529616/daz-studio-pro-4-16-1-was-4-15-1-nvidia-iray#latest - as far as I understand it the change affects the way opacity and luminance interact in any situation.

  • Richard Haseltine said:

    johndoe_36eb90b0 said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    It's by design - the luminance is now multiplied by the alpha, which is physically correct.

    Does that change how Iray canvases and LPEs work as well? Can you point us to documentation for that change?

    The Iray change log is psoted here https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/529616/daz-studio-pro-4-16-1-was-4-15-1-nvidia-iray#latest - as far as I understand it the change affects the way opacity and luminance interact in any situation.

    I read that already, doesn't really explain much -- i.e. it doesn't say how things were calculated before and how they are calculated now. I see a lot of changes on thin film calculations as well so I guess a ton of products will be affected by that.

  • f7eerf7eer Posts: 117
    edited November 2021

    Richard Haseltine said:

    The Iray change log is psoted here https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/529616/daz-studio-pro-4-16-1-was-4-15-1-nvidia-iray#latest - as far as I understand it the change affects the way opacity and luminance interact in any situation.

    This link just goes to the end of post.

    Is "Cutouts on mesh emitters are no longer ignored by parts of the renderer, leading to more correct results." in Iray 2021.0.0 beta, build 344800.351 what you're referring to?

    If not, can you either specify the version of Iray or list some keywords I can search for to find the text you are referencing? So far, "opacity" and "luminance" are both entirely absent from the post, and "emission" is only referenced in relation to other things (apparently).

    One thing I am trying to find is when and what version the ghost light Iray change made its way into DS.

    Post edited by f7eer on
  • PadonePadone Posts: 3,520

    Thank you Richard for the explanation.

  • f7eer said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    The Iray change log is psoted here https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/529616/daz-studio-pro-4-16-1-was-4-15-1-nvidia-iray#latest - as far as I understand it the change affects the way opacity and luminance interact in any situation.

    This link just goes to the end of post.

    Is "Cutouts on mesh emitters are no longer ignored by parts of the renderer, leading to more correct results." in Iray 2021.0.0 beta, build 344800.351 what you're referring to?

    If not, can you either specify the version of Iray or list some keywords I can search for to find the text you are referencing? So far, "opacity" and "luminance" are both entirely absent from the post, and "emission" is only referenced in relation to other things (apparently).

    One thing I am trying to find is when and what version the ghost light Iray change made its way into DS.

    I believe that is the relevant section, yes.

  • nightkinnightkin Posts: 194

    Have I installed the wrong program?  apart from the fact the default render screen is so low res it's more befitting an old 8 bit machine, what the hell happened to my content?  whenever i try to load any figure or prop it's in the available section, or pending.  DS 4.16 says my content is available, but not installed.  Instal Manager says it is installed.  is 4.16 not compatible with Instal Manager?   The  content is on my computer, so if I instal everything again through DAZ 4.16 will it replace the existing content, or will it instal to another location, giving two versions of the same files cramming my poor 1T hard drive?

     

    I can see the intent was to make instaling easier, and I'm sure it will be great when they iron out the bugs.  yes - bugs.  The intelligent Smart Content is not very intelligent, because when I try to apply a material for male figures, the Smart Content only offers  a female texture, so all materials and bump maps etc have to be loaded manually. 

    Also, Dog 8 seems to have lost his fur.   I reinstalled the package but his fur (LAMH) is not loading automatically, nor can be found in Hair.   Did something go wrong with my instalation of DS 4.16, or is this problem inherent?   I'm going back to 4.15.

  • twraven said:

    Is the emissive part of the shader crashing studio? If so, it is related to a problem where if you have bump maps, emission, and cutout opacity? on it crashes studio.

    D.Robinson said:

    TWRaven said:

    D. Robinson,

     

    I tried out rendering the Genesis 8 figure on my desktop with a 1660 Ti (which I am guessing is the same card as yours) with an updated studio driver and it used the GPU as detected by GPU-Z and recorded in the log files. There were no GPU failures. I am using a nVidia GeForce GTX 1660 Ti with a TU116 GPU revision A1. I am running Windows 10 with the 472.39 Studio Driver with a Driver Date of Oct 13, 2021. Can you tell me what driver (studio vs. game) and driver version you are using? Also, how complex of a scene are you rendering? You may be running out of VRAM too.

     

    D.Robinson said:

    I have a weird issue as well, havent run into  shader issues perse, however trying to change geometry into an emmisive crashes the renderer. Also, its not doing a GPU render at all. I have a GTX 1660 card with latest drivers. It lists my card in the advanced tab, and i have changed them and saved, restarted my computer changed them back and saved and restarted my machine. It compiles the shader and when it does the first Iteration it usually says "Cpu" or GPU for render type and then starts counting. Now it says nothing, in my perfomance monitor its using 99% CPU, and 0 percent GPU. The real weird thing is that its loading the scene into the GPU i can see the memory allocation. But its using the CPU to render the scene.

    I am currently using 496.76 game ready driver. It actually was released yesterday. The scene i am rendering is actually quite simple. 1 gen 2 figure, 1 car, a ground plane and 2 low poly buildings. I hardly ever run out of vram for my work. On rare occasion i do, but its a 6 gig card. I will do some experimenting with the scene, drop elements in and out and see if i can find out whats going on. The other issue is the emmsive shader is messed up. I see from others in this thread that its a known issue. Its a bummer for sure.

     

    PS i also mispoke , i have a GTX 1060 6gig card, not a 1660

    No bump or cutout opacity in the emmsive shader only base color map. The problem in question is i have a police car with a light bar, i tried to make the light bar emmsive by turing on the emmision shader by changing the color from black to white and then using the lightbar jpg as the color value. I am not sure its the emmison shader in general thats causing the crash. But i know if i try to render it after i have done that DAZ crashes. It could be a clash with something else in the scene that is causing the issue. But it seems to be this.

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 11,159
    edited November 2021

    nightkin said:

    Have I installed the wrong program?  apart from the fact the default render screen is so low res it's more befitting an old 8 bit machine, what the hell happened to my content?  whenever i try to load any figure or prop it's in the available section, or pending.  DS 4.16 says my content is available, but not installed.  Instal Manager says it is installed.  is 4.16 not compatible with Instal Manager?

    4.16 is compatible with Install manager. However the beta has separate settings from the general release, so if you didn't use the beta before you might need to setup the content directories in preferences so that it knows where your content is. Right now it's likely looking in the default content directories.

    Installation from within DS would refer to installing with Connect, and that would install a separate copy from the one you installed with DIM.

    Post edited by Leana on
  • nightkinnightkin Posts: 194
    edited November 2021

    so do i need to uninstal everything with instal manager first, or is there some magic way to reconfigure DS 4.16 to know where to look for installed content?  or do i need to get a new computer?   there isnt room on the HD for two copies of my content. 

    Leana said:

    nightkin said:

    Have I installed the wrong program?  apart from the fact the default render screen is so low res it's more befitting an old 8 bit machine, what the hell happened to my content?  whenever i try to load any figure or prop it's in the available section, or pending.  DS 4.16 says my content is available, but not installed.  Instal Manager says it is installed.  is 4.16 not compatible with Instal Manager?

    4.16 is compatible with Install manager. However the beta has separate settings from the general release, so if you didn't use the beta before you might need to setup the content directories in preferences so that it knows where your content is. Right now it's likely looking in the default content directories.

    Installation from within DS would refer to installing with Connect, and that would install a separate copy from the one you installed with DIM.

    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • Rune http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/referenceguide/scripting/api_reference/samples/file_io/save_mapped_paths/start in the General Release, which has the correct paths set already (download using the link above the code, then drag that file into the Viewport). That will create a new script file, drag that into the Public Build Viewport and it will get the saem folder assignments.

  • You need to configure your paths for your content library, the beta is using the default path. If you do this, like I do, and have another path configured for your content, it won't work with smart content and downloading from DIM. Go into Studio, right click on the "Content Library" pane tab, on the content menu that pops up select the submenu "Preferences", then "Edit Content Preferences." Click on the Content tab if it isn't already opened and click the button at the bottom that says "Content Directory Manager." The Content Directory Manager window will open. It will have a tree of Directories. Click on the plus next to "DAZ Studio Formats." Click on "DAZ Studio Formats" label. Click the "Add" button under the "Directory" label and navigate to your path where your content is located. I keep most of my content in "D:\Daz3D\Applications\Data\DAZ 3D\My DAZ 3D Library" but the default directory is "C:\Users\(Your User Name)\Documents\DAZ 3D\Studio\My Library" The beta will look in the default directory iff you don't add a custom path to where your content is.

     

    nightkin said:

    so do i need to uninstal everything with instal manager first, or is there some magic way to reconfigure DS 4.16 to know where to look for installed content?  or do i need to get a new computer?   there isnt room on the HD for two copies of my content. 

    Leana said:

    nightkin said:

    Have I installed the wrong program?  apart from the fact the default render screen is so low res it's more befitting an old 8 bit machine, what the hell happened to my content?  whenever i try to load any figure or prop it's in the available section, or pending.  DS 4.16 says my content is available, but not installed.  Instal Manager says it is installed.  is 4.16 not compatible with Instal Manager?

    4.16 is compatible with Install manager. However the beta has separate settings from the general release, so if you didn't use the beta before you might need to setup the content directories in preferences so that it knows where your content is. Right now it's likely looking in the default content directories.

    Installation from within DS would refer to installing with Connect, and that would install a separate copy from the one you installed with DIM.

  • twraventwraven Posts: 9
    edited November 2021

    What do you mean by the default render screen is so low res it's more befitting an old 8 bit machine? If you are trying to render something in the viewport as a preview try switching to Iray or Filament to get a better quality render (PBR and GPU based.) The dropdown where it says "Perspective VIew" by default, there is a little icon next to it with an arrow that let's you select the renderer type for the viewport your looking into. Set it to nVidia IRay and you'll notice a significant differnece in render quality. IRay is a GPU-nbased renderer by nVIdia whose goal is to be as physically accurate as possible for renders. It is a progressive renderer and continually adds detail. It will run on CPU so you don't have to have an nVidia GPU.

    Leana said:

    nightkin said:

    Have I installed the wrong program?  apart from the fact the default render screen is so low res it's more befitting an old 8 bit machine, what the hell happened to my content?  whenever i try to load any figure or prop it's in the available section, or pending.  DS 4.16 says my content is available, but not installed.  Instal Manager says it is installed.  is 4.16 not compatible with Instal Manager?

    4.16 is compatible with Install manager. However the beta has separate settings from the general release, so if you didn't use the beta before you might need to setup the content directories in preferences so that it knows where your content is. Right now it's likely looking in the default content directories.

    Installation from within DS would refer to installing with Connect, and that would install a separate copy from the one you installed with DIM.

    Post edited by twraven on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 40,704

    ...I had the Beta installed (through the IM) and everything was where it was supposed to be even with my library/runtme setup.  All my IM download paths were unchanged either.

    Or is this a new update to 4.16.1.2?

  • Dolce SaitoDolce Saito Posts: 148
    edited December 2021

    For me the latest beta:

    - On low-light situations, the denoiser is definitely produces ugglier outputs at lower iterations than before. I generally limit renders at 192 to 512 iterations with denoiser turned on. Starting from 192, especially low-light situations were acceptable for draft. Now, especially body parts becomes "marbled" more than before. I even noticed only lights on surfaces getting more cleaner with 256 to 512 iteration change, however, limb details are still worse.

    - I ran into the problems that people have already mentioned here, however apart from those, I really want to thank for the one particular feature, spectral rendering color space. On my work, this enabled me to be able to take the tone mapper out of the equation by completely shutting it off. Now I can set the scene lights with realistic wattage values (only exception is environment intensity) and then render with specific color space to clip excessive lightning automatically. Renders look more hdr-like without canvases and I really liked it. I would also like to see more color spaces being added.

    - Hair colors are still broken, I know a near-workaround is already in works.

    EDIT: Funny to add, but on 3090 rtx, low-light scenes render *way* faster with tone mapping turned off, spectral and caustics turned on (yes, both). I've been checking this by manually rendering frames with different settings, but convergence reaching around ~70% is way quicker and requires less iteratİons than default render settings, not to mention defaults for low light scene generates noise, even with %95 convergence while there are literally very little to no noise at all on dark places with the new *interesting* combination I use. How the earth this happened?

    Post edited by Dolce Saito on
  • VEGAVEGA Posts: 86

    "Added support for enabling/controlling “Iray Visible to Primary Rays” when NVIDIA Iray is the active rendere" And where is this exactly?

     

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 17,965
    edited December 2021

    It's still only 50 iterations in on a 4K CPU render but by all appearances the "iray rendering grid pattern" present in 4.16.1.2 is now gone in 4.16.1.6.  Ugh! Spoke to soon. The grid is appearing.

    Post edited by nonesuch00 on
  • VEGA said:

    "Added support for enabling/controlling “Iray Visible to Primary Rays” when NVIDIA Iray is the active rendere" And where is this exactly?

    Isn't that in the Private Build, at the end, rather than the Public Build?

  • VEGAVEGA Posts: 86

    Richard Haseltine said:

    VEGA said:

    "Added support for enabling/controlling “Iray Visible to Primary Rays” when NVIDIA Iray is the active rendere" And where is this exactly?

    Isn't that in the Private Build, at the end, rather than the Public Build?

    It got released in the public beta 4.16.1.6, but where exactly I don't know. 

  • IceCrMnIceCrMn Posts: 2,121
    edited December 2021

    from the changelog;

    • If a DzBoolProperty (user) property, named “Iray Visible to Primary Rays”, with the property group path of “Display/Rendering/Iray”, and a default value of true, is added to a node, the value of this property is used to specify whether or not an object is visible to primary rays (i.e., directly from the camera)

      • Does not control visibility to reflection/refraction/etc

      • Does not affect decal nodes

     

    so,

    I create a new primitive as a test subject.

    With it selected go to Parameters pane and enter edit mode.

    Right Click and select, create new property

    At the top select Bool from the dropdown list.

    Name

    Iray Visible to Primary Rays

    Label

    Iray Visible to Primary Rays

     

    Path

    Display/Rendering/Iray

    Everything else is default.

    Exit edit mode.

    Add new camera to scene

    and...

    nothing

    I'm not seeing any "ghost" effect at all.

    Neither preview mode nor render.

    Maybe I'm doing it wrong?

    Post edited by IceCrMn on
  • IceCrMnIceCrMn Posts: 2,121
    edited December 2021

    oops, almost forgot, I had to use Scripts>Utilities>Create Advanced Iray Node Properties on the test object so "iray" would show up in the path selection.

    If I didn't Only Display/Rendering was available

     

    Post edited by IceCrMn on
  • IceCrMnIceCrMn Posts: 2,121

    ok, never mind I got it working

    This time I made a primitive for a floor.

    Don't know why that made a difference, but here it is.

    On= show the ghost light geometry.

    Off= Don't show the ghost light geometry.

    off.jpg
    2554 x 1040 - 276K
    on.jpg
    2550 x 1045 - 294K
  • PadonePadone Posts: 3,520

    @IceCrMn Thank you for sharing this solution you did a great job for the community. If I may, it's a little scary that this didn't come from the daz support, their coders should know better.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 40,704

      From the changelog

    • Implemented a partial workaround for thin-film changes
      • Approximates (does not replicate) the previous behavior
      • Cannot fully match the previous behavior, but does match color characteristics to some extent
      • Affects reflection and transmission - the previous behavior only affected reflection
      • Cannot match three-or-more color variations

    :..so skin and hair colours that have a Thin Film setting >0 are still somewhat borked. 

  • AalaAala Posts: 140

    Dolce Saito said:

    For me the latest beta:

    - On low-light situations, the denoiser is definitely produces ugglier outputs at lower iterations than before. I generally limit renders at 192 to 512 iterations with denoiser turned on. Starting from 192, especially low-light situations were acceptable for draft. Now, especially body parts becomes "marbled" more than before. I even noticed only lights on surfaces getting more cleaner with 256 to 512 iteration change, however, limb details are still worse.

    - I ran into the problems that people have already mentioned here, however apart from those, I really want to thank for the one particular feature, spectral rendering color space. On my work, this enabled me to be able to take the tone mapper out of the equation by completely shutting it off. Now I can set the scene lights with realistic wattage values (only exception is environment intensity) and then render with specific color space to clip excessive lightning automatically. Renders look more hdr-like without canvases and I really liked it. I would also like to see more color spaces being added.

    - Hair colors are still broken, I know a near-workaround is already in works.

    EDIT: Funny to add, but on 3090 rtx, low-light scenes render *way* faster with tone mapping turned off, spectral and caustics turned on (yes, both). I've been checking this by manually rendering frames with different settings, but convergence reaching around ~70% is way quicker and requires less iteratİons than default render settings, not to mention defaults for low light scene generates noise, even with %95 convergence while there are literally very little to no noise at all on dark places with the new *interesting* combination I use. How the earth this happened?

     

    I just tried, and disabling the tone-mapper gives me an overblown white image eveb with few, low wattage surfaces. Is there a way to adjust the exposure without the tone mapper?

  • Transparency problem seems gone for good \o/

     

    Photoshop_Vy8NDiOvzK.png
    1083 x 1093 - 1M
  • Padone said:

    @IceCrMn Thank you for sharing this solution you did a great job for the community. If I may, it's a little scary that this didn't come from the daz support, their coders should know better.

    But it did come from Daz - it was breaking the information in the Change Log down into steps (thank you), but the information was there initially.

  • Aala said:

    Dolce Saito said:

    For me the latest beta:

    - On low-light situations, the denoiser is definitely produces ugglier outputs at lower iterations than before. I generally limit renders at 192 to 512 iterations with denoiser turned on. Starting from 192, especially low-light situations were acceptable for draft. Now, especially body parts becomes "marbled" more than before. I even noticed only lights on surfaces getting more cleaner with 256 to 512 iteration change, however, limb details are still worse.

    - I ran into the problems that people have already mentioned here, however apart from those, I really want to thank for the one particular feature, spectral rendering color space. On my work, this enabled me to be able to take the tone mapper out of the equation by completely shutting it off. Now I can set the scene lights with realistic wattage values (only exception is environment intensity) and then render with specific color space to clip excessive lightning automatically. Renders look more hdr-like without canvases and I really liked it. I would also like to see more color spaces being added.

    - Hair colors are still broken, I know a near-workaround is already in works.

    EDIT: Funny to add, but on 3090 rtx, low-light scenes render *way* faster with tone mapping turned off, spectral and caustics turned on (yes, both). I've been checking this by manually rendering frames with different settings, but convergence reaching around ~70% is way quicker and requires less iteratİons than default render settings, not to mention defaults for low light scene generates noise, even with %95 convergence while there are literally very little to no noise at all on dark places with the new *interesting* combination I use. How the earth this happened?

     

    I just tried, and disabling the tone-mapper gives me an overblown white image eveb with few, low wattage surfaces. Is there a way to adjust the exposure without the tone mapper?

    No, that is what the Tone mapper is. If you go without the Tone Mapper then you should probably use Canvasses to write an .exr file so that you have enough data to adjust in an image editor.

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