Seeking Feedback for my Rejected PA Application Products (Please)
White Rabbit
Posts: 231
Hi there everybody,
I love DAZ very much, and I recently submitted a few products for their consideration for PA application. I never really considered selling the items but thought it would be a pity for them to just rot on my hard drive as it were :-) I have poured a ton of time and energy into the projects, and I'm not really to concerned that they have been rejected but I would really appreciate any feedback from you guys as to how they could be improved or why they are just not attractive to potential buyers? The first one is a vehicle , which I designated the Aardvark. It is fully rigged with working suspension, clam-shell doors, lights, steering, etc. I developed several versions of it which I thought would be fun to offer fully textured. There are no blueprints for this car that were available so it was not just a matter of downloading the design, copying and boom... it's done! I spent a number of years getting the shape just right. It has a ton of details such as a bar, full interior, working controls, dashboard and so on. I have restored several real cars and incorporated my knowledge into the design as much as possible. This is not what it seems by the way, as this car has four rear wheels, not two, streched length style. Carries 11 people total, includes all the poses for the driver, passenger, and cabin passengers. Has neon underlights as an add-on if desired in included props. Headlight beams, interior cabin lights and light for the cocktail bar. It has a fully rigged airfoil custom designed. Neon lit option for color of body. Iray and 3Delight renders. I created an animated reel showing all the options available. I don't know? I just thought that there wouid be a place on DAZ for a car that was based on glamour. It oozes everything that you could want in a vehicle. I also created 12 different paint and interior options that included "Hot Wheels" chrome colors, a reptilian, leopard, phoenix, and traditional color schemes. What am I doing wrong? Please help me :-) I was told that DAZ would not be interested in selling this as it was not the type of product that people would be interested. That is fine, and I have no problem with their decision at all. I did these for my own pleasure anyway but I am just trying to understand the process of what is an acceptable product? I see cars, vehicles being sold all the time on DAZ?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/u3cd5qnod3jr297/Aardvark - 1920 x 1080.mp4?dl=0
Anyway, I can only attach a single image here and I hope I am not breaking any rules. If I am, I appologise.
Thank you.
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Comments
One potential issue I see is Apple Car play on the screens of the vehicle. All of those are easily recognized symbols owned by Apple.
Thank you Krzysztofa. That can be changed very easily. A simple texture change.
First thing I thought of on seeing it was the Pink Panther car
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panthermobile_(show_car)
Thank you for your comment, and I appreciate it very much. This is not the old PP car. It is stretched in length, has 4 back wheels, not 2. Has double clam-shell doors (on each side of the car). Custom designed airfoil which can be changed in pitch on all three blades. Electric powered... the V8 engine has been replaced with an 800hp electric drive with lithium battery packs under the cabin area. There is a two-seat arrangement in the cockpit area with a king-and-queen motorcycle style seat for the passenger. Automatic rollbars. Windows on the cabin sides. "Not pink" :-P this is not the PP, but its big brother from the same manufacturer. Inspired by the original car, same as so many other vehicles being sold on the store that are inspired by a real one out there. Thank you 3Dreamer so much for taking the time to provide some well appreciated feedback.
I don't agree that most of the cars in this store are regular, the majority seem to be sports cars, in particular super cars, rather than the kind of stuff driven by the average person, although there are some normal cars available.
Having said that, I agree this seems kind of niche. The only thing I have seen that is remotely similar is the stretched limo. https://www.daz3d.com/2007-am-limo. Note this is a really old product, so if it had been successful someone might have created a new one in the intervening years.
Did you send them anything else besides this car? My suggestion would be to send renders of several different models to showcase what you can do and your capibilities (car, other props, environments etc...).
As has been said, what you have created is super niche. I am not overly familiar with the cars in the Daz store but if the one vehicle you can point to that is similar is a stretched limo, then that is still a vehicle that you could see out on the street. Your vehicle does not exist in any similar form in the real world. Which I guess makes it a kind of fantasy car. And I don't know what the market is for that unless it's a superhero car.
So don't take the rejection personally even if you don't agree with the reasoning. If you want to design for Daz in the future I would recommend running by Daz what you want to create before you do it. It certainly seems you have the skills. Good luck!
My first thought was when I saw this vehicle, what story can you tell with such a car? Frankly speaking, I haven't a clue.
Those are still "regular" cars in that they actually exist and can be seen driving around, however infrequently.
I like the look of it. Very sleek, and you've obviously put a huge amount of work into it from rigging to texturing. Krzysztofa is correct about the issue of recognizable symbols. Daz's people work very hard to avoid copyright/IP conflicts. However, any advice you get through the forums is going to be pure speculation. That's not a dig at anyone commenting here, as they're all good comments. The thing is, even PAs aren't likely to be able to do more than speculate on why this specific car wasn't of interest to Daz. The ones who've had vehicles submitted probably know more about what might or might not be taken, but the only people who can answer your question are the ones who work for Daz and are involved in the process of reviewing new products, so you'd probably be better off contacting them if you want more information about why they turned this down. If you got a reply to your submission, you could try communicating with them that way and ask for clarification or contact them through the Contact page. I don't say that to be unhelpful, and there's nothing wrong with asking for people's thoughts on your product. That's a great way to get suggestions and thoughts from potential customers. As a customer, I would have no immediate use for it as it wouldn't fit into the type of renders that I usually do, but I like all the moving parts and the thought that's obviously gone into how everything works together to make that car tick. I would suggest that you also look for answers from the official Daz folks, though, simply because no one in the forums is likely to be able to guess what drove the decision to turn down this vehicle.
It looks to me like your model was made with care and skill, quality is not the problem here. I don't think you can "improve" this product into getting accepted; I think DAZ (and the end customer) are looking for a different kind of product all together.
Your car reminds me of some of the older fantasy vehicles we got for free last year, like this one and this one. Note that DAZ hasn't been selling models like that for a while now, so I have to assume they don't sell all that well.
I personally didn't even download those two models. There's nothing wrong with them as far as I can tell, and they are clearly the work of a very creative mind. But I honestly wouldn't know what to do with them.
I think it looks really cool and certainly more useful than something like a steampunk ostrich... Maybe if you had done promos with a pretty G8F in a sexy sci-fi outfit sitting in it or posed by it in more of a scene-like render? And maybe add some poses for G8F&M seated in it and by it, using the screens inside and partying like in an upscale futuristic limo? That would have sold me!
Looks good to me. Did DAZ provide no feedback or specific reason/s for the rejection? If so that's pretty discourteous. I don't know but maybe that's how they operate.
I used to be a PA here and finally got fed up. It's a beautful model and sadly we're seeing more poorly made stuff coming through this store so that's not the issue. Agree with somebody's comment above abou "what story would I tell" with this car. Very unusual shape so a regular pic won't work, but I could image using it as a posing prop for showing off a character+clothing+hair.
Also, promo renders are pretty important. Some PAs here have theirs done professionaly and other have terrible promos. I'm not sure if you can share you promo set but that would also go a long way to help the viewer "see" how they could use it. It could be your promos were too focused on the model features and quality rather than how it might be used.
Ditto to taking it to another store: I'd probably buy it because I like unique good quality models.
Agreed about the ostrich. To me, this car looks like something I would use as a child's toy, or something that would go in a cartoon, but you hit it with sci fi. I don't think it's as much of a niche item as everyone thinks, but the promos have to show it in different contexts to open our eyes to possibilities we're not thinking about...to get Daz to see it in a broader light.
Given the amount of submissions we receive, no, we can't offer specific feedback (which we say at the time of review).
If we were to give feedback on every application, it would require a full time position to maintain, and I don't know of any other industry in the creative arts who would give feedback like you're suggesting.
Yes its rare to get feedback from the company itself in this kind of situation. Not only would it take time for that first reply that states the reasons but then they would regularly get push-back for their reasoning and be asked to defend it and things get too messy. It's why publishers rarely give reasons to authors.
What I've learnt from this thread is the importance of the promo images to show how something can be used to tell stories. So maybe produce some new promos that focus on that and resubmit to Daz or sell it directly yourself in another store.
Good luck selling it!
The design of the vehicle reminds me a lot of something you would see in any of Gerry and Sylvia Anderson's tv shows from the 60's and 70's such as Thunderbirds, Stingray, Joe 90 or UFO..
That is a interesting car. It looks like something you'd use to make a Speed Racer episode and that would be the bad guy's car. Remember the big freight train-truck made of stolen gold episode of Speed Racer? Totally fits in that sort of style.
As well as looking at the product on offer itself, Daz also want to know what other ideas you have and how often you might release a product. Although not binding (some of my ideas fell to the back-burner due to technical difficulties), it gives them an idea. If you're really taking years over a product, it might give them pause for thought. (I'm sure you're quicker now than you were. It's just a thought).
As for this product itself - perhaps they'd accept it as a niche item from a PA that had sales under their belt, but it might be too niche for a new PA.
^Purely speculation on my part. I have no insider info.
+1
There's tons of stuff on here at DAZ that are way more niche - steampunk Ostrich for example - that seem to fit nicely into DAZ's portfolio... if they don't want this one, just offer it to some other shop or try to sell it yourself on the sites that offer this service.
It may be a niche vehicle, but not any more so than post-apocalyptic Mad Max type buggys and Daz has certainly released enough of those over the years.
I think George Barris would have approved!
I don't think all is lost... and I wouldn't give up yet...
but as somebody above already mentioned, you probably need to be able to tell a story somehow...
My two cents...
Take your car, but tweak it so that it is "3 models in one":
1) The Delxue Limo you have
2) A small space shuttle to ferry VIPs between star ships/planets
3) Private Submersible Submarine
Get some renders of the model being used in each setting and it helps to tell the story.
I was just about to say, that it looks very much George Barris style
Sometimes you don't even get a simple rejection (happened to me) which is discourteous IMO, at least they could do that since they directly encourage people to submit their products. You may want to try to sell your product elsewhere if DAZ won't accept it, and waiting for months for an answer that never comes prevents you from that.
Seems to me, that daz should want more PA's, and it would be in their best interest to offer better feedback. I mean, just imagine if say stonemason or some other big seller had done less than stellar promos at first, and you just gave him/her the brushoff, or didn't even bother giving a reply, and that vendor never existed because of that. That's a lot of potential revenue down the drain.
Just to be clear, in saying that not giving feedback is the same in the publishing industry I was neither justifying it nor saying that it was not discourteous to not give feedback but... I am saying that in wanting to get the kind of feedback that is being talked about, well that would be a progressive industry-leading type of thing to do.
I don't know what kind of information is made available to PAs but maybe that could be improved. That is what happens in the publishing industry. There are lots of books that consolidate what publishers are repeatedly saying to authors as to what is the problems in their work. So that's how you deal with it there and there is plenty of information if you look for it. So it sounds like Daz needs to have a really clear guidelines that draws from the experience of the items they have rejected. This way they can share the information without it becoming personal conflicts with individual PAs.
I bet if whoever assesses the products just gave an afternoon to writing out the most common rejection reasons it would be a great gift for everyone ... hint hint. It could both be put online as well as be included in all rejection emails.