Seeking Feedback for my Rejected PA Application Products (Please)
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watching the video you really put in a lot of work in all the movable parts you do have talent and creative knowledge
It must be so frustrating to not know the reason. I totally understand that the manpower involved in telling everyone why their product failed isn't viable for a profit-basd company, but I can imagine if it was just one thing, such as the mesh, or the textures, the overall look, the saleability, or some other thing which could be fixed quickly, and not know, how soul destroying it would be. Wish there was a Dragon's Den for this sort of thing. I admire the OP greatly for having the courage to put forth the product and get everyone's opinion. Good luck, mate!
i agree, the modeling looks great and you obviously have talent, don't give up. Personally I would have no use for this type of vehicle in any of my projects, but there are probably some out there that would, so i would try other stores and nothing else, offer it as a freebie and move on to the next quality model
I'd try to submit it to another store. It doesn't look any more niche or hard to sell than the other vehicles already available but with no feedback about the reason there's no way to tell why it was rejected. It could be anything, even technical reasons (although it's rather unlikely given the random QC roulette with the store purchases).
The car looks cool. Very sci-fi. I'd hack the wheels off and replace them with turbines for making a flightcar out of it. If it was available for purchase anywhere.
I love the look of the car! And I loved the video clip, yes. Now I know where my "chaffeur" learned how to drive lol ...
I've been around quite awhile [years] - a couple of tips I've read of: this one I've seen "so many" of in freeware and not a biggie, Windows users just delete them. However for products sent to the store all those .DS_Store thingies are to be removed from the folders. Another reason that causes rejection [quite a few apparently] is that NO manual editing of the files is to be done. I think there may be "one" [and only one] exception to that rule but I don't recall what it is right now. For those that do want to have certain changes made - lo and behold there is a product available in the store just for editing files - making changes like who you are; website urls, etc.
Promo pics are important too. Not all PAs render their own promos. And allegedly there are guidelines for what may or not go into a promo image. Ideally only products available at Daz3D for example.
I agree with the others and would take it to Renderosity. They're more open about what they take it and it shows in the variety of products you can find there vs at Daz. And as others have pointed out, most long time Daz users have been frustrated at the low quality level of products sold here and lack of QA done on them before release. There's really no shame anymore about selling at Rendo vs Daz, not with Daz's current track record the past 2 years.
Care to explain what you mean by that?
For example if you are creating a .cr2 figure, it must be created via the program properly. One does not get the .cr2 for any ol' figure [a rather popular habit of some] and edit it replacing the orginal mesh for different mesh. I think it's called hacking a file, that's a no-no.
....
manually => meaning one uses a text editor to make changes.
There is no rule stating you cannot take an existing file and re-purpose it for another set, as long as you are the person who made the original file.
Hi Certaintree38. Thank you for taking the time to reply to my crazy questions :-) I'm sure you are correct. I am ust crazy about crazy looking cars LOL. I could never find what I was looking for on DAZ, or any other place to be truthful, so I just had to get my hands dirty and do it myself. I guess I really never concerned myself about who else would want to buy it based on existing things and styles that are already out there. I tend to like to try to create a trend than follow an existing one. I never have looked for the ordinary, and regular "real" vehicles tend to bore me. This is the same with my real car... the airfoil on the Aardvark is a modified version of the one I have on my car at home. I greaw up in the 60s, 70s, 80, 90, 2ks so I have seen all the fads and fashions over the years. I grew up when E Type Jags, Lotus's, De Lorean's, TVRs and the like were popular, and they were great looking cars that stirred up something inside. It's that drive for something that looks cool that was at the base of this. This is a sensual looking car... no hard edges. It's designed as a limo for a ladies night out at the night club. A Hollywood get-together. It lives and breathes the glamourous, adventurous world. It can be parked to any of the other carsc that are out there, and stand out as the queen of the car-parking lot. Every curve and detail has been thoughtfully designed and integrated to create a new, enhanced car version of an already classic show-car. I would buy it! If I found this on a Web site, DAZ or otherwise, I would buy it a million times over!
Thank you so much again for taking time to post some feedback!
P.S. I attached an image of the top of the car hiddeen and the passengers... lots of very pretty ladies. There are nine cabin pasengers and I provided poses for all in the Pose section of the proect. They are a mixture of my favorite characters for G2F, G3F, G8F, Steph 3 Petite, and V4. They all really love the Aardvark they told me LOL as they are heading out for a girls night out. By the way, that is 11 DAZ characters fully dressed with the Aardvark car all being rendered in about 2 minutes on my PC. I designed the car to have lots of new features not found anwhere else (top secret) LOL.
White Rabbit
Hi Havos, Thank you for providing some valuable feedback. That's what I've always loved about DAZ here. Whenver I've asked for help, I've always got super-nice people responding quickly... thank you!
I guess there's nothing wrong with regular cars or regular sports cars for that matter. Its nice to have a model of your favorite car that's out there... I totally get that too. I guess it's just that the car tends to get second place to the rest of it, and here I'm stealing first place with the car being the center of attention, and everything else is around it. Your eye catches the cars curves and personality and not the remainder of the scene. I saw the am limo on DAZ but that was totally not what I was looking for. Its a fun model, but I wanted something more sensual as it were.
Hi AHutchins Art. I always want to say to start with, thank you so much for providing some valuable feedback here! It's SO valuable!! I was trained as an animator and we were always told of the super-value fo feedback for our work, and wow! Yes, it is the most important thing of all! When we submit our hard work for a PA Application, and we are told there will be zero feedback, that is a very sad thing. We are left to think the worst! Or, go down the wrong paths to change/fix our projects.
Anyway, yes, to answer your question. I have submitted to DAZ PA before actaully aout a year ago to be exact. The first was for a model of a Princess phone. I was told that the workmanship was not up to DAZ's standards, and the lighting too. I will attach a product image for your opinion. Please feel free to be candid if you feel like adding negative feedback. I am used to it LOL. The phone came in many colors and had working light (as per the real phone from the 70s). I actually created it for the Pink Panther but thought I would test the PA waters. I was told it was not enough on its own, and I would need to model some additional props to sell with it to make it a product. That wasn't really what I was thinking as It was going to be included with the PP if not sold on its own. I thought it was kind of a cool prop. I had researched all the other places and at that time, there was zero Princess phones. Not sure now though, a year or so later?
Thanks again,
White Rabbit
Hi AHutchins Art. I always want to say to start with, thank you so much for providing some valuable feedback here! It's SO important!! I was trained as an animator and we were always told of the super-value of feedback for our work, and wow! Yes, it is the most important thing of all! When we submit our hard work for a PA Application, and we are told there will be zero feedback, that is a very sad thing. We are left to think the worst! Or, go down the wrong paths to change/fix our projects.
Anyway, yes, to answer your question. I have submitted to DAZ PA before actually about a year ago to be exact. The first was for a model of a Princess phone. I was told that the workmanship was not up to DAZ's standards, and the lighting too. I will attach a product image for your opinion. Please feel free to be candid if you feel like adding negative feedback. I am used to it LOL. The phone came in many colors and had a working light (as per the real phone from the 70s) and fully rigged with the buttons and receiver. I actually created it for the Pink Panther but thought I would use it to test the PA waters. I was told it was not enough on its own, and I would need to model some additional props to sell with it to make it a product. That wasn't really what I was thinking as It was going to be included with the PP if not sold on its own. I actually thought it was kind of a cool prop. I had researched all the other places and at that time, there was zero Princess phones. Not sure now though, a year or so later?
Thanks again,
White Rabbit
Here's another one that was part of my last rejection a few days ago. I pointed out that it was just a work-in-progress WIP which it will be for a while, maybe indefinately now LOL. It is a float plane from England that won the Shneider Trophy back in the 30s. It was the predecessor to the Supermarine Spitfire which was pretty popular back in day
Its just a super-rough render from DAZ. It is not finished in any way shape or form including being textured or rigged.
Being an aviation enthousiast. I certainly like this model (which BTW was a racer in the 1930s not 40s), but I probably wouldn't buy it, as (as mentioned with your earlier example), I don't have a story to go with it. And being indeed a 'niche' product, I doubt many others woud buy it, at least not enough for DAZ3D to be interested. I did buy the bf109 here when it was available only because 1) I had ideas for it and 2) I already had the (free) 'opposing force' models available so I could make my renders with it.
My feedback:
The store tends to focus on glamorous content that makes Vicky and her friends look sexy and cool. The stuff that sells are items that embrace that theme.
The shape of the car seems a bit odd, and not in a way I like. It has improbable sharp angles and is a bit like a hearse. There is too much of it, and the textures simply don't hold that much interest for that much mass.
The seating looks uncomfortable and the way it opens a bit like a coffin. I just don't see people wanting to get in and ride around. The seating has a bit of a roller coaster ride/fold-out chair quality, which is discordant to the sleek boatlike exterior which promises retro roominess, instead, the seating looks cramped and uncomfortable.
It's very creative though. Good luck with your future efforts.
Ok so here is what I think and suggest. It sounds like thier reasoning for rejecting the phone is probably the same for the car and plane. It doesn't seem like we have very many prop only products come through unless they are something like trees, plants,swords or guns lol. One of the above renders of the car did kinda look like a roller coaster type thing. While it is much more work I would suggest building an entire environment and include said props. Like a bedroom set that includes the phone. An airport terminal or hanger that includes the plane. Or go with an amusement park scene and turn that car into a roller coaster haha. Go all out on those renders before you send them to Daz. They want to see "finished" type renders like what a customer would do with said product.
As far as submitting to the "other" store, it wouldn't hurt. I don't know much about them as far as what they accept etc... and I personally don't shop there very much as i find their website to be somewhat confusing and hard to shop through (there is A LOT of undesirable stuff to sift through sometimes if you are just browsing and not looking for a specific thing). That said, there are a few stores I follow and buy from there that have top notch stuff.
I'm not aware of any rule book on the matter. One of the people who yeahs or nays Product acceptances, is who told me that [years ago but AFAIK they are still around] - that the files were not to be manually edited. So I figured that's something to keep in mind if/when hoping to get their product(s) into the store.
Definitely agree with people mentioning promos. "how to become a PA" faqs DAZ highly HIGHLY emphasize having some eyecatching promos - In particular they specify looking at some recent Daz originials. And state that all images should be promo quality.
the promos you have shown do a good job clearly demonstrating everything, but aren't what I would particularly consider eyecandy
compare
The model itself doesn't look any more detailed - but the render is much showier - its in a scene to start. It also has crisper reflections - I don't know whether its your materials or lighting but the reflections look kind of blurry in a very un car like way.
I think your video has the best looking visuals - Its also helped by having a more carpaint material. Your car design is pretty niche (and cool looking) but some of the texturing seems to be pushing into full physical impossibility. How would the fish scale pattern work in the real world? For the leopard print one, it looks kind of matte, from the promo the viewer can't tell if its supposed to pe a paint or actually covered in fabric (also the green on it is completely flat to the point that there's no apparent reflections or lighting info whatsoever which is a bit of a visual nono)
For reference I became a PA, lapsed, and then became a PA again - both times when submitting I only submitted images that I considered 100% final promo ready. In point of fact, for both I had what I knew was not only going to be a promo, but the title image already done.
heres another fairly recent product in store that its worth looking at how its presented
2 initial shots are artistic renders with a scene and character showing how it should be used followed by the more clear renders demonstrating the colors and details. (it even has an exotic looking orange material but it still looks clearly like metal)
tldr the design is niche, I think the actual modelling itself looks quite good, the textures could still use a bit of tweaking imo, and the promos absolutely need to be showier
Another was my original Pink Panther. This was a TON of work spread out over 7 years. You wouldn't believe the research and effort that went into this. I saw the real car at the 2016 Los Angeles auto show. I took a ton of pictures that seemed to scare the new owners... car hasn't been seen since
It has exact details. The engine is complete also. I modeled it all in super-detail. I have a background in classic car restoration, so I was able to include a lot of car type knowledge in the build. The suspension is working rigged in DAZ. It is the real deal... it's torsion bar, inependent suspension, with leaf spring rear, fully working shock absorbers... the works. The interior is fully loaded and complete to the smallest details. Fully 3Delight and Iray compatible. Working windows for the cocktail bar. Poses for the driver and passenger. Cinderella phone, 70's portable TV and pillows all make up the entire package that was offered and declined. I posted the rest of the product images on my DAZ Gallery page if you are interested to look?
All the best,
White Rabbit
Hi j cade. You have bought up some very interesting points. I didn't really want to show a realistic car as such to be honest. I wanted to just go with the flow of ideas that were just coming to me I guess? The fish scales seemed fun to create a car version that would be amphibius in nature. I basically worked on the texture, and it looked unusual and different. I guess to appeal to different tastes (fishy tastes) LOL. The Black Cat version is actually matte finished for the skin colored sections... kind f like some of the car-wraps that people have on their cars. Again, it just felt ight for it but who am I to say?
Truthfully, I have a lot of shots that haven't been seen by you guys for the different versions of the cars. I was told that I should submit WIPs, ideas, designs as well with my submission. What would that include I wonder?
I wouldn't take the rejection too much to heart.or view it as there's something is wrong with the product. Just that it's "unsuitable for Daz at this present time."
LOL.... that looks like my nephew in England! I totally agree with you fred9803. As I said before, I love working with DAZ Studio... heck, I've been with it since it first started out pretty much. This was only an experiment is all to understand the process. I knew ahead of time that my designs would be declined.
Two sides to the rabbit.
White Rabbit
... you completely skipped over the part where I mentioned multiple times that Daz directly states the images you sent should be of promotional quality to go "I've sent other WIPs"
Hi glaseye. Thank you for taking the time for a reply...its appreciated for sure! Actually, its not finsihed yet, and has additional props to be added that will make it much more desirable I'm sure. That's the danger of submitting stuff that's half-finished I guess? People always think that what they see is what they get
Oh, and what I meant was the Spitfire for the 40s, my uncle used to weld the canopy frames for them. There are several aircraft on DAZ I noticed of the WWII era..., anyway, I guess its all pretty much a subjective thing as they say... tally ho chaps 
I have a book on the way about the Supermarine Float Planes from the UK so I will make sure every detail is super-accurate.
I totally agree with you barbult. Thank you for your input. I actually did include many images of the Aardvark in various scenes. Nothing was mentioned again sadly. Each one of those scenes was lovingly created and renders over weeks of work just on one scene to show the car in a cool looking setting. I have attached another to this email. This one was rendered in 3Delight.
Hi jcade. I was told that I should send WIPs, design and ideas directly from the review team. That contradicts what you mentioned in your message, and that is why I didn't address it. Stay cool man... I'm not trying to rile you up. I have the messages in black and white.
I'll reiterate what others have said. Trying another store first might be best. When my first product got knocked back by Daz, I took it to Rendo (who will generally take anything that works - only issue there is that the (optional) advertising cost is on you). I improved my skills and got good practice packaging things for sale. I had a couple more rejections from Daz before I made something they wanted. Even since becoming a PA, I've had a couple of products that didn't fit Daz (nothing inherently wrong with them, just not Daz's cup of tea).
They don't normally look at WiP items though - maybe some WiP shots of a now-finished product would be helpful but they won't normally give time to an unfinished product. (An existing PA might be able to drop them a line and say 'are you interested in this idea?' - The PA team are very helpful with stuff - but obviously their time is limited so they can't respond to all the hopeful applicants in the same way).