Clothing parts with unwelded vertices?

DocDoc Posts: 46

So I've realised lately that some (maybe many?) clothes are made a bit weird (atleast IMO). Like the arms and other parts aren't actually connected to the torso part for example. In these cases they seem to be separate elements and it maybe the weighting on connecting vertices is the same so when the character is moved you don't really ntoice. I guess for use in Daz it works ok but personally I hate this and it causes problems in my workflow which involves export from Daz Studio. 

I'm looking for options on how to actually make them one piece of clothing (like most of the Daz clothing items I've encountered) so any help is appreciated.

One option I guess would be to export, weld the vertices, and reimport. But I don't know how I'd do this and still maintain the weighting of the old clothing item since this would be a new object.

Another would be to weld them after export but I have to export many iterations of each character so a fix closer to the source would be preferable.

Not to sure what other options exist.

Comments

  • maikdeckermaikdecker Posts: 2,545

    Can't help with that problem, but I have to add that it is terrible for trying to dForce such a piece of clothing.

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 17,099
    edited May 2018
    Doc said:

    So I've realised lately that some (maybe many?) clothes are made a bit weird (atleast IMO). Like the arms and other parts aren't actually connected to the torso part for example. In these cases they seem to be separate elements and it maybe the weighting on connecting vertices is the same so when the character is moved you don't really ntoice. I guess for use in Daz it works ok but personally I hate this and it causes problems in my workflow which involves export from Daz Studio. 

    I'm looking for options on how to actually make them one piece of clothing (like most of the Daz clothing items I've encountered) so any help is appreciated.

    One option I guess would be to export, weld the vertices, and reimport. But I don't know how I'd do this and still maintain the weighting of the old clothing item since this would be a new object.

    Another would be to weld them after export but I have to export many iterations of each character so a fix closer to the source would be preferable.

    Not to sure what other options exist.

    I've seen this talked about before and they said your option one is really the only practical option.

    One option I guess would be to export, weld the vertices, and reimport. But I don't know how I'd do this and still maintain the weighting of the old clothing item since this would be a new object.

    Post edited by nonesuch00 on
  • FistyFisty Posts: 3,416

    When you're exporting the obj make sure you uncheckmark groups. It won't fix everything, but that might be most of your problem.

  • Syrus_DanteSyrus_Dante Posts: 983
    edited May 2018

    This question comes up almost every two month or so, but I see much of these threads with no solution for this issue. So I think its time to hopefully change that.

    These unwelded Facegroups are most likely seen in old content made with Poser compatibility in mind where every bodypart is split up in seperate Facegroups.

    There is a solution with a method I once used succesfully that I like to explain.

    First export the clothing item as OBJ and import it to Blender. This alone is a challenge and a matter of the right export-import settings often discussed here and there.

    I have made some screenshots for that - just use the settings and you're good to go.

    Once you have your cloth imported to Blender you can go to edit mode and choose the function Remove Doubles from the ToolShelf - Mesh Tools. There is also an option for the Merge Distance by default at 0.0001. But since the edges of the Facegroups should match exactly, all seams should be welded by now.

    Also take care of the UV-map, before you use Remove Doubles first you have to open the UV-Image editor and select the Seams from Islands there to make shure Blender knows where the UV seams are (showen as red lines in the 3D view but not showen at first import). With this it dosn't weld these vertices together at the UV-map seams that would destroy it.

    With this done you can export this mesh as OBJ and import it back to Daz Studio as a seperate object. See these settings for exporting with Blender - simply use the settings on the left.

    Yes your problem is the vertex count has changed but if you also load the original clothing item into the scene you should see that the shape does match the original shape while all faces starts to flicker while navigating the perspective view.

    Now the trick here is to use the Transfer Utility to transfer all Rigging, Weightmap and shape morphs back to the altered base mesh. Since the vertices of both items are at the same position it should be an easy task for the Transfer Utility, just make shure you use a low Distance Tolerance (higher values would make the weightmap blury and smooth the morphs too much) and only check to transfer Weightmaps and Morph Targets.

    References:

     

    Post edited by Syrus_Dante on
  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 17,099

    This question comes up almost every two month or so, but I see much of these threads with no solution for this issue. So I think its time to hopefully change that.

    These unwelded Facegroups are most likely seen in old content made with Poser compatibility in mind where every bodypart is split up in seperate Facegroups.

    There is a solution with a method I once used succesfully that I like to explain.

    First export the clothing item as OBJ and import it to Blender. This alone is a challenge and a matter of the right export-import settings often discussed here and there.

    I have made some screenshots for that - just use the settings and you're good to go.

    Once you have your cloth imported to Blender you can go to edit mode and choose the function Remove Doubles from the ToolShelf - Mesh Tools. There is also an option for the Merge Distance by default at 0.0001. But since the edges of the Facegroups should match exactly, all seams should be welded by now.

    Also take care of the UV-map, before you use Remove Doubles first you have to open the UV-Image editor and select the Seams from Islands there to make shure Blender knows where the UV seams are (showen as red lines in the 3D view but not showen at first import). With this it dosn't weld these vertices together at the UV-map seams that would destroy it.

    With this done you can export this mesh as OBJ and import it back to Daz Studio as a seperate object. See these settings for exporting with Blender - simply use the settings on the left.

    Yes your problem is the vertex count has changed but if you also load the original clothing item into the scene you should see that the shape does match the original shape while all faces starts to flicker while navigating the perspective view.

    Now the trick here is to use the Transfer Utility to transfer all Rigging, Weightmap and shape morphs back to the altered base mesh. Since the vertices of both items are at the same position it should be an easy task for the Transfer Utility, just make shure you use a low Distance Tolerance (higher values would make the weightmap blury and smooth the morphs too much) and only check to transfer Weightmaps and Morph Targets.

    References:

     

    Wow super! Thanks.

  • Syrus_DanteSyrus_Dante Posts: 983
    edited May 2018

    Some things I didn't write about are the Facegroups, the Surface and the Shader settings for this converted Clothing Item.

    I wouldn't recomend you to use the Transfer Utility for transfering the Facegroups or Surfacegroups, not only that the results can be vary, it isn't needed because the Face & Surface -groups will be maintained and gets imported back by the OBJ (actualy by the companion MTL file) if you have checked Write Material and Polygroups in the Blender export settings.

    In Daz Studio open the Geometry Editor pane and compare the original Face & Surface -groups with the imported one - the polygons should be the same. You may have to rename the Surface Group because Daz Studio somehow adds the object name behind the original surface name while importing.

    ...just make shure you use a low Distance Tolerance (higher values would make the weightmap blury and smooth the morphs too much) and only check to transfer Weightmaps and Morph Targets.

     Sorry I have to correct myself, not only check Weightmaps and Morph Targets but also Selection Map, Region Groups and Content Type (will be automaticly the same as source).

    [Edit]: Wrong info Merge Hirarchies just select WeightMaps

    And in the extended options of Weightmaps check Merge Hirarchies, it is strange but if I don't check this not all Parameters - especialy the controller Properties and the Property groups don't get transfered over - at least with my last experience in some DS 4.9 version.

    For the extended options of Morph Targets select From Source: All in the dropdown menu.

    [Edit]: Also select Replace Source With Target, this will make shure all controller Properties and Property Groups gets transfered over like within the original.

     

    Then try to apply some original clothing material from the library. If the Surface Group name is the same as the original the chances are good that it will apply just as the original. If not you may have to select all Surfaces in the Surfaces pane and apply the right shader first. You can select some Surface from the original and save the Shader Preset to the library and then apply it to the converted clothing.

    The last step would be to save this converted clothing item to the library as Figure/Prop Asset.

    And that's it - I hope I didn't forget something since I havn't done this for a while. I wish you success with this method.

    TransferUtility_Settings.png
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    TransferUtility_Settings_2.png
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    Post edited by Syrus_Dante on
  • grinch2901grinch2901 Posts: 1,232
    edited May 2018
    Doc said:

    So I've realised lately that some (maybe many?) clothes are made a bit weird (atleast IMO). Like the arms and other parts aren't actually connected to the torso part for example. In these cases they seem to be separate elements and it maybe the weighting on connecting vertices is the same so when the character is moved you don't really ntoice. I guess for use in Daz it works ok but personally I hate this and it causes problems in my workflow which involves export from Daz Studio. 

    I'm looking for options on how to actually make them one piece of clothing (like most of the Daz clothing items I've encountered) so any help is appreciated.

    One option I guess would be to export, weld the vertices, and reimport. But I don't know how I'd do this and still maintain the weighting of the old clothing item since this would be a new object.

    Another would be to weld them after export but I have to export many iterations of each character so a fix closer to the source would be preferable.

    Not to sure what other options exist.

    One way, if you don't mind the mesh getting triangulated, is to buy the VWD dynamics solution (renderosity) along with the Daz Studio bridge, the bridge exports the item into VWD as a triangulated mesh which somehow gets all welded together (and hence doesn't ever fall apart in VWD even if it does in dForce) and when you send it back to studio it's a prop with the same UV maps but welded up.  You lose rigging but that's easily fixable using the transfer function.    This is intended for clothing you want to sim but theres no reason it wouldnt work on a hard surface model, just don't sim it before you send it back.  Costs money though. So there's that.

    Post edited by grinch2901 on
  • DocDoc Posts: 46

    Syrus_Dante, thanks a lot for all those details, that was the kind of help I needed.

    It's also helpful to know I'm not the only person who finds this annoying.

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