? A New Marketing Stratagy ?

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Comments

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 5,057

    I do not think Daz 3D will EVER charge for the base program.

    They did have paid-for versions in the past (DS3 Advanced, and DS4 Advanced and Pro before they made Pro free), but even then there was a free "standard" version available.

  • BeeMKayBeeMKay Posts: 6,686
    frank0314 said:

    Daz's licenses works on all Daz listed vendor products regardless of version.

    Yes, but the indie/Pro license that some bought for taking meshes over into games so far are "unlimited", valid for items released in the future as well as already released items.

    If each newly released items now has its own indie/pro license, then how will that relate to the existing Indie/Pro license model? I do understand that the licenses will apply to the already existing content, but what about the new one? Will someone who has, say, STonemason's Indie LIcense automatically have the "indie" license version applied on purchase of the new imaginary "City on Mars"-Stonemason item to be released in 2019? Or will the Indie License owner have to purchase the Indie LIcense version of that imaginary Stonemason item, despite already owning the Indie license?

    (I'm not sure if I phrased that properly, English isn't my native language.)

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 31,131

    This is all pure speculation.   Please make sure that you do express it as speculation and don't make it appear as if what you are saying is based on facts.

  • DAZ_SteveDAZ_Steve Posts: 544
    BeeMKay said:

    I'm curious as to how already purchased Indie/Pro licenses will transfer over to this new model. I mean, some customers bought them to cover past and future releases by a DAZ or a specific PA.

    Forgive me for keeping details to a minimum, as I don't want to steal the thunder from things.  But I will say that:

    1- The changes will be much more clearly laid out as to what they mean (I agree with the points that many have made that it should be spelled out more clearly than it has historically.)

    2- Indie and Pro Licenses already owned will continue for current and future products, so that those who made those purchases will get the value they expected to get when they made the purchase.

     

  • scorpioscorpio Posts: 6,679

    Are we getting another dynamic clothing solution, the Mean Mr Pumpkin Head for Genesis 8 Male has a dynamic gown with it, which it appears is not Optitex at least I can't get the plugin to recognise it, the promo page says nothing about needing anything but DS 4.9 so just wondering.

  • Yeah, that's kind of weird.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 31,581

    If they charge for Dynamic cloth in DS5 I’m gonna be the first to buy it, don’t care how we get dynamics as long as we get it and it’s easy to use 

    ...if it is a separate plugin, yes that is no issue. 

    As to the base programme, this is one of the attractive features Daz has going for them.  It's the old "Razor" business model where you give the razor itself away for free then charge for the blades.  It's worked for well over a century. Daz's core business has been and still primarily is selling 3D content. They tried to put a price on their flagship programme a couple times and soon afterwards, dropped the idea.

  • DAZ_SteveDAZ_Steve Posts: 544
    scorpio said:

    Are we getting another dynamic clothing solution, the Mean Mr Pumpkin Head for Genesis 8 Male has a dynamic gown with it, which it appears is not Optitex at least I can't get the plugin to recognise it, the promo page says nothing about needing anything but DS 4.9 so just wondering.

    I just checked on this one: The product is meant to have Optitex files for it, but apparently they are not working.  We are in the process of getting updated files to resolve the issue.

  • I speculate that Daz is building their own game engine!

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 31,581

    ...no wonder Bryce, Carrara, and Hexagon have been left to wither.

  • I speculate that Daz is building their own game engine!

    I speculate that makes no sense at all since the Morph3D system doesn't function properly as it is!

  • I speculate that Daz is building their own game engine!

    I speculate that makes no sense at all since the Morph3D system doesn't function properly as it is!

    Aha! But that's exactly why they are making their own! cheeky

  • Touché.

  • AtanaciusAtanacius Posts: 329
    edited October 2017

    @DAZ_Steve:

    I also discovered that new "features" in my product library (some people also had this terms/some not): https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/201851/question-about-a-new-term-in-product-library-item-standard-license..
    I was worried about that term and how this will be affecting the standard EULA (even if it state Standard License)..

    After reading your answer,

    First: Thanks for all the "small" precisions, anyway, I'm always worrying about what changes are "planned" to license..

    I mean..
    It's typically the thing I don't like when "licenses are changing" on products I already purchased before the changes ...

    Can you just answer to that question I'm worry to not find any informations since the presence of the new "license feature"..
    Can we always use 2D renders (with background/transparent) in a paid/free/free 2 play video game without the need of purchasing any additionnal license and rely to EULA standard, yes ?

    In 2016 I posted a request on the Zendesk about that and Cristina said me yes. (basically summarized here).

    Also as I wasn't the only one people asking for that, I posted back the answer on the forum for all who want know like me what the "EULA" think about 2D renders in a free game or not.
    As you can be aware of it by accessing the post here:
    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/1703591/#Comment_1703591

    I'm feeling sorry to ask this (again in 2017) but as I saw new "plan" for license.. I'm worry ..... Affraid even.

    Precisions please?
    It will help many people which come to read this topic in the future.

    Thanks for reading me !

    Post edited by Atanacius on
  • mikekmikek Posts: 160
    Ati said:

    A per product license would make more sense than the current ... well... ... current thing... :D Currently it's quite chaotic. Per vendor, or per vendor per project, it all depends on the vendor. Some vendors don't have such licenses at all. A common system would make sense.

    I'm not sure if a per product license is a good idea. It depends on how they implement it. There is another store which has introduced the per item game license some time ago and that seems to be pretty much dead now. Most of the seller who did offer such a per item license early on have stopped to add it for new products. I don't even browse there anymore because it's close to certain any new product I would be interested in buying won't offer the game license option.

  • Fixme12Fixme12 Posts: 589
    edited October 2017

    A strange this thread 's allowed and not get deleted, as it's nothing more as wild speculation and guessing!
    Why where my speculation threads "about dazstudio 5" always getted deleted immediatly ????

    this thread not against he TOS? counts the TOS not for any community member the same?

    Post edited by Fixme12 on
  • Fixme12Fixme12 Posts: 589
    edited October 2017

    I'm going to laugh a lot if the huge surprise was just licenses.

    cool haha then your not alone on this! laugh
    keep vote with the wallet for the animation/dynamics pipeline, it's save you $
     

    Post edited by Fixme12 on
  • BeeMKayBeeMKay Posts: 6,686
    edited October 2017

    A representive from DAZ (DAZ-Steve) answered to the questions posted in this thread, so I think it left the "speculation" part some time ago. There are additional questions asked to clarify the topic. Again, not speculative.

    As for speculating and TOS in general, in my experience, it is usually a matter of how you phrase something. If you present something as if it was a fact, that is problematic. I am not familiar with your posts, but I assume that this was the reason why they got pulled, in accordance to TOS. But perhaps a Mod is the better person to ask these questions, and to explain you the exact reasons why your posts got deleted.

    Post edited by BeeMKay on
  • Fixme12Fixme12 Posts: 589
    edited October 2017

    i've posted enough speculation threads about dazstudio 5 and animation requests they all can't be seems like facts.
    English is not my native language so some may be sound a little to be true.
    I start to wonder if they would really do something on the software (specially animation IK problems/dynamic/collision setup) in 2018 we can expect this as realtime solutions not?
    as the time of realtime rendering become true with unreal.... and intel 18core this is mainstream in 2020

    Post edited by Fixme12 on
  • BeeMKayBeeMKay Posts: 6,686
    edited October 2017

    English isn't my native language, either, and more often then not, something I say is phrased in a wrong way. It is always better to state that you are speculating, and that you are not a native speaker, so if something comes across different from a speculation, that is not intended. As a feedback, your phrasing comes across as a bit "pushing" at times. I am certain that this is not intended, but maybe you keep an eye on it.

    As for DS 5 (which is off topic for this thread so it will perhaps get this post deleted), I really wouldn't bother speculating. Whatever is going on elsewhere, always keep in mind that DS is a free software, and they will only be able to put limited amount of developement into it. Or realtime rendering, you already can have that now, if you throw a powerful enough computer setting at it. The preview renders instantly already.

    Collision, dynamics, IK, yes, it would be great if that would be fixed/upgraded. But again, the software is free, and whatever they decide to do, is up to the people at DAZ. I can hope for many things, sure, but... "Im Himmel ist Jahrmarkt," as they say in my language, there's a fun fair in heaven, for wishful thinking.

    EDIT: Also, while the DAZ people come by in the forum on occasion, that doesn't mean they keep a close eye on things said here. If you really want your suggestion to get to them, submit them to the customer service: https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/requests/new

    Post edited by BeeMKay on
  • drzapdrzap Posts: 739

    It would really help their potential customers if they were more forthcoming about future updates to Daz Studio.  I am waiting in a minor limbo to see if the future Daz 5 can satisfy my animation needs.  It's really the only reason I hang out here. Announcing their future plans have very little downsides as far as I can see.  When iClone announced their facial mocap solutions months before its release, it helped me prepare for possible pipeline changes.  It drew more attention to their brand.  By being so hush-hush about it, they risk antagonizing folks who are seeking solutions.  I don't know about you guys, but I will be a little pissed if I find that the "knock your socks off" features of DS5 will be nothing more than a new license agreement. I like Maya, but I'm not made of money.  If Daz is becoming more animation friendly, I want to know now.

  • drzap said:

    It would really help their potential customers if they were more forthcoming about future updates to Daz Studio.  I am waiting in a minor limbo to see if the future Daz 5 can satisfy my animation needs.  It's really the only reason I hang out here. Announcing their future plans have very little downsides as far as I can see.  When iClone announced their facial mocap solutions months before its release, it helped me prepare for possible pipeline changes.  It drew more attention to their brand.  By being so hush-hush about it, they risk antagonizing folks who are seeking solutions.  I don't know about you guys, but I will be a little pissed if I find that the "knock your socks off" features of DS5 will be nothing more than a new license agreement. I like Maya, but I'm not made of money.  If Daz is becoming more animation friendly, I want to know now.

    @DazSteve

  • dreamfarmerdreamfarmer Posts: 2,127

    Announcing details is always dangerous, especially when you pair details with delivery dates, because people can get very, very, very upset if the actual product or dates do not match what was previously announced.... and in software dev, that is the rule rather than the exception.

  • Announcing details is always dangerous, especially when you pair details with delivery dates, because people can get very, very, very upset if the actual product or dates do not match what was previously announced.... and in software dev, that is the rule rather than the exception.

    Yes, and it's also been stated that a major version change would likely only be coupled with a massive change to the plug-in SDK, which is something they're striving to avoid after the last change broke plug-ins that we're never replace.

  • drzapdrzap Posts: 739

    Announcing details is always dangerous, especially when you pair details with delivery dates, because people can get very, very, very upset if the actual product or dates do not match what was previously announced.... and in software dev, that is the rule rather than the exception.

    If they lie about the details, of course people will be very upset.  And rightly so!  But revealing to your users what you're working on in the future is hardly dangerous.  On the contrary, it builds trust in the product if the developers are regularly communicating with the users.   You're right, dates are very often missed.  People have become accustomed to missed deadlines in the software business, which is precisely why there is no danger in posting an expected date.  Generally people understand unless the delay is excessive.  Bottom line is open communication is always good as long as we feel it is honest and sincere.  Danger only exists when a company is misleading and deceptive.

  • dreamfarmerdreamfarmer Posts: 2,127

    There's a huge difference between 'lying' and 'things change'. As for dates changing... I am involved with a project that has had to change dates several times and the forums for the product are absolutely filled with nearly constant wrath. The problem is that users often /assume/ deception (and can be quite abusive) when really it's just business and software development functioning as usual. Trust me, even companies that have the appearance of open communication keep a ton of things secret for exactly this reason.

  • drzapdrzap Posts: 739

    There's a huge difference between 'lying' and 'things change'. As for dates changing... I am involved with a project that has had to change dates several times and the forums for the product are absolutely filled with nearly constant wrath. The problem is that users often /assume/ deception (and can be quite abusive) when really it's just business and software development functioning as usual. Trust me, even companies that have the appearance of open communication keep a ton of things secret for exactly this reason.

    There is always a need to keep some things a secret.  I don't see anyone asking for full disclosure on Daz business.  We are asking for the company's general direction and confirmation that some of the common things are being addressed.  You mean saying things like 'it will knock your socks off' and it will be released this quarter is not dangerous then?  Because if it doesn't knock my socks off and it is released next year, we have the same scenario.  The more secrecy, the more deception is assumed.  you can't stop people from being people, but you can gain customers by being a little more open about the direction your product is going to take.

  • dreamfarmerdreamfarmer Posts: 2,127

    But sometimes gaining a few customers isn't worth the price that must be paid in other ways; clearly Daz thinks so.

    Honestly, if they ARE changing up how something like clothing works, they're probably keeping it a secret for the same reason they keep new figure generations a secret: they don't want to impact current sales. Marketing is always very picky about how things are announced, as well. Gotta have the press releases ready to go and all that.

  • drzapdrzap Posts: 739

    But sometimes gaining a few customers isn't worth the price that must be paid in other ways; clearly Daz thinks so.

    Honestly, if they ARE changing up how something like clothing works, they're probably keeping it a secret for the same reason they keep new figure generations a secret: they don't want to impact current sales. Marketing is always very picky about how things are announced, as well. Gotta have the press releases ready to go and all that.

    Well I hope the end result is worth it.  I'm peeing in my pants.  Waiting to have my socks knocked off.  Come on Daz!

  • dreamfarmerdreamfarmer Posts: 2,127

    I admit I'm pretty excited that it's October and they're still saying 'by the end of the year'. I figure they'd PROBABLY know by now if it was going to be shoved into 2018... and it might even be in, like, two weeks. Anniversary sale and all.... Even if it isn't itself AMAZING to me-the-cynic, being very close to a Mystery Gift's arrival is, well, fun all on its own.

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