3Delight Laboratory Thread: tips, questions, experiments

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  • wowiewowie Posts: 1,987

    http://www.creativebloq.com/3d/how-paint-realistic-creature-skin-textures-101413116

    It's not exactly 3Delight-related, but I figure most of us "tinkerers" do wind up painting or otherwise editing texture maps for best results. These are very structured tips.

    I'll add to that. Don't bake specular highlights into the diffuse texture. :) For anything.

    Here's some example from a thread on CGFeedback - photo reference with and without polarized filter.Just goes to show that actual specular is more than just highlights.

    As for displacement, I think this is just pretty awesome.

    http://texturing.xyz/

    Oh yeah, just got my copy of Renderman 21. :)

    Awesome

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  • wowie said:

    I'll add to that. Don't bake specular highlights into the diffuse texture. :) For anything.

    Here's some example from a thread on CGFeedback - photo reference with and without polarized filter.Just goes to show that actual specular is more than just highlights.

    As for displacement, I think this is just pretty awesome.

    http://texturing.xyz/

    Specular is everywhere =) Not only in ancient textures unfortunately...
    And yeah, Texturing.xyz are crazy good. Those prices aren't for everyone, but they are justified. Wonder if there are any character vendors who might be using their resources.

  • j cade said:

     I know the newest renderman has no REYES (I think because it has issues with with some of the more modern methods of light transport, I think thats what I read anyway)

     It's included in special builds for those studios who might be relying on it to this day, but not in "general" releases. RIS and REYES in terms of Renderman represented two completely different paradigms from the software development PoV (just think of how RIS only accepted shaders written in straight-out C, so that they could be fully compiled into machine code before execution). 

    And probably SuperFly (Poser 11 Cycles based rendering engine) as well.

     I keep hearing about how SuperFly is a "ruined" and slow version of Cycles. No personal experience, but that's the vibe coming from most forums.

  •  

    And probably SuperFly (Poser 11 Cycles based rendering engine) as well.

     I keep hearing about how SuperFly is a "ruined" and slow version of Cycles. No personal experience, but that's the vibe coming from most forums.

    I have no experience with Cycles and only minimal experience with SuperFly, so I can't really say one way or the other.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
     

    And probably SuperFly (Poser 11 Cycles based rendering engine) as well.

     I keep hearing about how SuperFly is a "ruined" and slow version of Cycles. No personal experience, but that's the vibe coming from most forums.

    I have no experience with Cycles and only minimal experience with SuperFly, so I can't really say one way or the other.

    Superfly is not really Cycles...it's based on/built from Cycles, but really it's a fork.  More like 'nice' Kirk and 'evil' Kirk...after the transporter accident.

  • wowiewowie Posts: 1,987
    edited November 2016

    Specular is everywhere =) Not only in ancient textures unfortunately...

    Ah, you mean baked speculars. laugh

    Yeah, funny how in this day of supposedly PBR workflow, they still bake way too much into diffuse/color textures. But hey, they still model glass surfaces as infinitely thin objects and have no bevels on the edges. So, nothing surprises me anymore. Not even blaming 3delight when instead it's really DAZ Studio that's the Achilees heel (in that other thread).

    Btw, I found a very nice trick with point & spot lights.

    Create a primitive (generally i use a disc or a plane) as a child node of the light, with no offset in position. Disable everything but diffuse, set it to not cast shadows, but enable fantom and raytracing. With diffuse enabled, it will be lit by the parent light, but won't be visible in the render and only visible in reflections.  If you need the light to be visible in the render, you can just turn off fantom. Best use the actual light geometry to do that rather than a primitive.

    In effect, we just 'provided' an area to the point/spot light. Of course, the specular still isn't correct, but now we can use reflection on the surface to capture the highlights from that light (and complement the specular).

    An additional plus is this works even with just plain UberSurface, since it enables fresnel only with reflections. If you already set up the reflections and fresnel, you can adjust specular strength to closely match the intensity of the reflection. Or even the 'spread' of it (effectively the actual roughness of the surface). Enabling blur effectively reduces the reflection strength and turns the reflection into a more dull highlight.

    With this arrangement, you can fine tune materials with just delta lights, though it still triggers an IPR re-render if you move the lights around. I simply turn the primitives invisible if i need to move the lights around and switch them back if i need to fine tune specular/reflections. Once you are satisfied with the materials and the light placement, tun the delta lights off and apply area light shaders to the primitive. Or just use them as is if you don't want to use area lights.

    Post edited by wowie on
  • dracorndracorn Posts: 2,307
    edited November 2016

    Initial Test Render of Sushmita:

    I just picked up Sushmita. Here is a test render with her standard 3DL materials - no other changes.  I used AoA's Advanced Ambient Light and Advanced Distant Light.

    The velvet seems to be set pretty high, and her eyes look flat. 

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    Post edited by dracorn on
  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,400
    edited November 2016

    wow, that dose not look right at all. Is that a three point lighting of a sorts, and is shadows turned off on a light? Is that her Iray mats, or 3DL mats? Most things these days load with Iray mats by default, Some times the 3DL thing skips a map or a few. It may take going threw the mat load cycle again to get the 3DL mats to work, it's a thought.

    I'm guilty of not having purchased her yet, tho I have a few other figures that sometimes do weird things when trying to load the 3DL mats.

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    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    dracorn said:

    Initial Test Render of Sushmita:

    I just picked up Sushmita. Here is a test render with her standard 3DL materials - no other changes.  I used AoA's Advanced Ambient Light and Advanced Distant Light.

    The velvet seems to be set pretty high, and her eyes look flat. 

    Select all the surfaces...and kill the velvet.  It may even be on one or more eye surfaces (yeah, I've seen that...Velvet is ON on an eye surface...you only get that the morning after the frat party...)

  • That definitely doesn't look good. Now, I know of at least one vendor that supplies separate presets for characters for 3DL and Iray, so check to be sure that isn't it as well.

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,400
    edited November 2016

    I wont doubt checking the skin settings, tho I'm not able to reproduce the light wash-out effect on the jewelry,

    even with the wrong shader on them for 3DL.

    So I do suspect something with the lights is not helping matters. Unless daz changed the mat icons for the jewelry, the 3delight mats have a '3DL' in the top left corner.

    Unless your using a custom metal shader on them, and that is perfectly fine (I play with surface settings all the time).

    All right, Sushmita order placed, pending download threw DIM.

    I will presume this is a good approximation of what you have going there, and I'm about to find out just how bad the AoA SubSurface pre-compute face-palnt time is these days.  I'm giving daz undue courtesy, normally when I see the AoA shader on something I swap it out for 'Anything' else, Daz Default, omni, Iray, renderman, SuperFly, snale , anything else has a faster get-up-and-go then the face-plant time of AoA these days (ten minutes  and still waiting for the render to start)... 11m 23s, that's three times faster then some older stuff, tho it is not the full figure in the spot render.

    Hmmm, "The Velvet is strong with this one"  , and I'm not sure about the no-makeup lip lack-of-saturation. This will take some tinkering to get her to look like the Iray promos.

    I kind of like the skin tone in the test chamber a tad more then the pale tone in the promos especially given the nationality, and I understand that the lights are very different between them. Next test render will be with Shadows turned off on the "DzFld2 Halo" light (rendering now).

    Yep, starting to get some glow factor, and color saturation dropped a tad. And that from a single spot light at only 25% light intensity output. Now I will turn the shadows back on on that light, and turn off the shadows on the 'TopBack' uber soft box (Uber AreaLight Plane).

    For get that idea, I can not convince the uber area light to disable shadows, not with the on/off switch, not with the shadow color, and not with the shadow intensity. The eyes should be glowing like a Goa'uld with that much light from behind them, lol. That shadow color dose give me another thought to try on the spot lights, what if I set them all to 128 gray.

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    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,400
    edited November 2016

    Sorry, fell asleep on the keyboard. The last render I was doing I had set the shadow color to 128 gray on all three spot lights, and doubled the output from them. That started to give some results similar to the shadow shading, and I decided this morning to take it to the next level.

    Given that result, I decided to go a tad further and try to duplicate the washout on the jewelry stones.

    Dawn the radiation goggles and take cover y'all, We're turning up the lights. lol.

    First test is with all three spot lights at 100% light output (about on par with a XBO carbon arc lamp each),

    shadows set to 128 gray on the "WhiteSun" spot, and shadows off on the KeyLight and Halo lights. I decided to put the color scale cube on the shoulder just so y'all can see just how far over the top this is, lol.

    That looks like it is getting close on the jewelry stones, however the Subsurface is tinting the gloss and velvet quite heavy on the red side, so I may need to try removing some maps there. Perhaps by ctrl-click and "Ignore maps" on the load last 3DL thing instead of just double clicking it.

    If the lack of opacity maps on the eyelashes wasn't a hint, whatever, I see a hint of eye maps in that white. Render time.

    After doing the Ctrl-click Ignore maps on the 3DL shader scrip for her, I was not able to get the eyes not to be pure white in render just by clicking on presets, and none of the make up options appear to put the eyelashes opacity map back. So while it is still possible that something goofed up loading the 3DL shader script, I'm not able to reproduce it as of yet with that alone.

    And just as a blind test, here is her Iray mats in the same Carbon Acr chamber. A few similarities, yet again not the same. It's more like glossy plastic then velvet washout.

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    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,400
    edited November 2016

    Hmmm, I think I have something here.

    That was with her Iray mats, let me put her normal AoA 3DL mats in there.

    I think that is about it. Shadows gray or off on many lights, lights way to hot, and the render Gain and gamma settings way out in the blue yonder.  How many times is the AoA light shaders reprocessing gamma on surfaces?

    There is your shadow contrast on strike, velvet overdose, stone-washed jewels, colorblind skin tone, and hangover eye gloss. needs more cowbell, lol.

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    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,838
    edited May 2018

    TRICK LIST

    // will be updated sporadically //


    "General light/material setup tips // Wowie // (fairly renderer-agnostic actually)

    Basic UberSurface information // Wowie //

    Bucket numbers and threads - balance // Zarcon //

    Shading rate explained and some more // Mjc //

    Sinc filter: too much width will cause "ringing" (example render) // Kettu //

    "displacement (with raytracing) if you want displacement details to be seen in the shadows and/or silhouette..." // Wowie //

    Reflection blur to get smooth reflections // Mjc //

    "Area" extension for delta lights // Wowie //

    Tips on using UberEnvironment and the Point Cloud render script to get faster IDL // Kettu //

    More detail on using the "Scripted Renderer" "Point-Based Occlusion" script with UberEnvironment2 to get point-based IDL // Kettu //

    Difference between UE2 "Indirect Light" and "Bounce Light" modes // Kettu //

    Shader Mixer: why it is slower when you attach an image brick to the surface opacity (even when there is no image) // Kettu //

    Motion-blurring instances correctly // Kettu //

    Adjusting Mjc's free UberSurface metallic presets to get hair "made of gold" // Kettu //

    UberSurface Fresnel and metals 1 and UberSurface Fresnel and metals 2// Wowie //

    Greyscale opacity maps vs b&w opacity maps // Kettu //


    Takeo.Kensei's .BAT file to recompile 3Delight shaders coming with DS (should help with the "[shader] uses an older interface version" warning)


    Links to pages on jewellery photography (same tips can be used for rendering) // Kettu //

    Shadows on a cloudy day: reference photo // Wowie //

    Human ear thickness: way thinner than in DAZ figures! // Kettu //


    Thin film: not just for soap bubbles // offsite link //


    back to page 1

    Post edited by Mustakettu85 on
  • dracorndracorn Posts: 2,307
    edited November 2016

    I have been working with Sushmita's surfaces.  I used AoA's Subsurface Shader and his tutorial for making adjustments. 

    For the most part, I like the way the skin looks, but I lost the dark complexion (need to work on that).  I'm having a very hard time with the eyes. 

    I can't seem to get any reflection/depth - they just look flat. 

    I am slightly thrown off by the G3F surfaces, as the tutorial is for G2F, and I don't have much experience with G3F (I'm a G2F fan).  The Eye Moisture surface looked pretty freaky when I first loaded the AoA Subsurface, but I think I made changes too far and now can bring back the reflections.  Of course, it could be as simple as needing something for them to reflect.  I may put something in front of her off camera and try another render.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,400
    edited November 2016

    Sorry for the side track from the former chat Kettu, I just wanted to try a few different approaches to attempt to mimic all the effects in dracorn's former render.

    "Sushmita AoA subsurfaces 05 w spotlight" looks considerably better, and yes, unless your using a reflection environment map, reflected surfaces need something real in the scene to reflect, that or the environment sphere/box needs "Visible in render" to be on (not to be confused with UE2 environment map, that's something entirely different). It is best to have an actual environment for reflection to reflect before attempting to set up such things on eyes and chrome/glass things, otherwise almost nothing will work quite right. Another reason I always start out in my test chamber, it's a real environment with actual walls and ceiling for things to reflect. Because the environment is actually a box in the scene, "Top of the world" is another good example of a good place to start working on reflective things in (I'm sure there are other good ones as well).

    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • wowiewowie Posts: 1,987
    dracorn said:
    The velvet seems to be set pretty high, and her eyes look flat. 
     

    Just clarifiying things a bit. Velvet itself isn't the problem. It's using velvet with any kind of diffuse only ambient light (UE2, Advanced Ambient etc). If you don't use any ambient light, velvet can work nicely.

    dracorn said:

    For the most part, I like the way the skin looks, but I lost the dark complexion (need to work on that).  I'm having a very hard time with the eyes.

    You need some refraction on both the eye surface and cornea. An IOR of 1.5 generally works. Set opacity to zero and make sure specular and reflection are not multiplied by opacity. You only need to toggle those if you have opacity textures as surface mask. Here's an example of using DS default shader. For the iris and sclera, just use plain diffuse without anything else. If you do need to have the diffuse get as close as possible to the edge, you can use the sclera texture in the velvet slot and enable velvet, but use sparingly.

    Of course, your light intensities and falloff will play a big part.

    Details come from specular (and displacement) while depth comes from shadows, dark areas.

    Unfortunately, AoA's shader lacks fresnel for specular, so you need to set specular intensity way low to account for specular after fresnel.

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  • dracorndracorn Posts: 2,307
    edited November 2016

    Hmm.  I followed your settings, but it resulted in a strange blue line where the tear should be. 

    I think that problem is because I am working with G3F, not G2F, and I'm using Eye Moisture... I don't see Eye Reflection on G3F.  Is there an equivalent?

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    Post edited by dracorn on
  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,400
    edited November 2016

    Ah, no. I don't know for sure, tho I suspect there was a time a single mesh surface could only do one thing with a shader, and I recall reading some where that many eye surfaces was a carry over from former generation figures from a long time ago.  To day it is not impossible to have a single layer of mesh do reflection, refraction, and other things to mimic the appearance of moisture over another surface. The actual eye surface is Sclera (eye whites), and the Irises, then inside the Iris is a lens or 'Pupils'. Over the Iris and Pupils is a protective transparent layer called the 'Cornea', and that is all there is to the actual eye surface.

    Over the eye is a layer of moisture including the former 'surface tension edge' on the lower eyelid, the former two eye moister zones are just one on G3F. The blue may be lack of something to reflect, a blue sky reflection, refraction and reflection of the Irises color, or a light. Over a year ago somewhere was a discussion on how to get the new G3F 'EyeMoisture' to not be so unpredictable, I don't remember where it was tho. It will take some adjusting of the settings you posted to figure it out. When you do get it figured out, save a copy of the 'Material Preset' for her, so you don't need to go threw all that work again.

    Eye Reflection layer/zone, was for having an environment reflection map on for scenes that did not actually have an environment, a form of fakery, lol. You can probably incorporate that into the 'EyeMoisture' layer/zone on G3F, shaders have come a long way since the days of Victoria3, lol.

    (edit)

    try backing off on the reflection strength a bit on the 'EyeMoisture' zone, I don't think I've ever needed more then 25% when "Multiply through opacity" is turned off on that. 60% looks rather high, or is AoA reflection that week vs the Daz Default shader?

    Random hypothetical thought for consideration. How effective would an eye be at seeing light if most of the light was reflected away before it got into the eye to be detected by the retina. lol.

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    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • wowiewowie Posts: 1,987
    edited November 2016
    dracorn said:

    Hmm.  I followed your settings, but it resulted in a strange blue line where the tear should be. 

    I think that problem is because I am working with G3F, not G2F, and I'm using Eye Moisture... I don't see Eye Reflection on G3F.  Is there an equivalent?

    I think Eye Moisture is the rough equivalent of Tear (it's the surface where the eyelids meets the eyeball). Eye reflection surface, or just eye surface is an enveloping surface for the eye to catch reflections and highlight). Genesis don't have one, while Gen 4 and Genesis 2 do. I actually forgot if Genesis 3 have them. If they don't, you probably need to apply those to the sclera and iris.

    PhilW actually made a eye surface conformer for Genesis, if i remember correctly.

    Also make certain the cornea has bulge, just like an actual eye do.

    The blue tint is odd though. I'm assuming you have specular and reflection set to neutral grey or white?

    Post edited by wowie on
  • dracorn said:

    I think that problem is because I am working with G3F, not G2F, and I'm using Eye Moisture... I don't see Eye Reflection on G3F.  Is there an equivalent?

    You can also use a geometry shell that only exposes the cornea and eyewhite surfaces (all others are hidden). Don't forget to set the offset to some microscopic value like 0.0001. Then you apply Wowie's settings to the geoshell's cornea and eyewhite, and they will become a transparent "tear film".

  • ...from the "dear vendors" thread:

    wowie said:

    Ah, the 3delight team finally uploaded a video of the multi light mixer in Maya. Better late then never i guess. It's been available for what, a year? Something Mawell and Corona only recently got.

    No need to re-render or fine tune lighting in IPR. Yeah, yeah. Anyone care to take a guess when that's gonna be available in DAZ Studio? laughlaughlaugh

    Yeah, the more I watch those things the more I realise that either I find a way to learn how to write "actual" DS plugins, so as to get all the functionality, or I move to Blender. The latter option isn't exactly 100% appealing because I hate rigging, and apart from coding, I'll need to re-rig all the DS/Poser models I use...

    wowie said:

    It's coming along. I decided to use this flavor of Oren Nayar - http://mimosa-pudica.net/improved-oren-nayar.html

    Still working on the refraction part, but i'm making progress.

    So are you going combined shader builder + shader mixer?

    Do you plan to add any dispersion to refraction?

  • wowiewowie Posts: 1,987
     

    Yeah, the more I watch those things the more I realise that either I find a way to learn how to write "actual" DS plugins, so as to get all the functionality, or I move to Blender. The latter option isn't exactly 100% appealing because I hate rigging, and apart from coding, I'll need to re-rig all the DS/Poser models I use...

    Well, Truth be told, I've actually did just that. :) Re-rigged Genesis 2 wth linear blend weights. So, it'll be usable in just about any app and game engine out there. Even the new Marmoset Toolbag. I'd say about half way done. It's a whole new rig though.

    So are you going combined shader builder + shader mixer?

    Do you plan to add any dispersion to refraction?

    Preliminary prototyping is done via shader mixer. The connecting bits - energy conservation schemes, metalness workflow support, etc. The early prototype was using the clay plus glossy bricks, in addition to trace for the reflection. The finished one will likely be in shader builder, since building a complete BSDF in Shader Mixer is down right scary. laugh DAZ docs mention ways to import Shader Builder codes as new bricks, but haven't look at them.

    Haven't thought about dispersion yet. I mean, it's cool to have, but does it really have practical use in production? If I had to choose, i'd rather have both refractive and reflective caustics, even fake ones than dispersion.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    wowie said:
     

    Haven't thought about dispersion yet. I mean, it's cool to have, but does it really have practical use in production? If I had to choose, i'd rather have both refractive and reflective caustics, even fake ones than dispersion.

    Actually, with working caustics, dispersion isn't that much more...

  • wowie said:

    Well, Truth be told, I've actually did just that. :) Re-rigged Genesis 2 wth linear blend weights. So, it'll be usable in just about any app and game engine out there. Even the new Marmoset Toolbag. I'd say about half way done. It's a whole new rig though.

    That's a feat =) How long did it take even for "half way there"?

    wowie said:

    Haven't thought about dispersion yet. I mean, it's cool to have, but does it really have practical use in production?

    Gem rendering =) Not much, I know, just one of my "pet" subjects. I know I can do it in Lux the best way out of my options, true spectral rendering yadda yadda, but still.

  • mjc1016 said:
    wowie said:
     

    Haven't thought about dispersion yet. I mean, it's cool to have, but does it really have practical use in production? If I had to choose, i'd rather have both refractive and reflective caustics, even fake ones than dispersion.

    Actually, with working caustics, dispersion isn't that much more...

    Soooo Mike, have you by any chance tried if GGX or GTR will accept a 3-tuple IoR for dielectrics now? I'm sure it should do the same thing for refractive photon-mapped caustics that the complex IoR does for reflective photon-mapped caustics (i.e. automagic colouring).

  • wowiewowie Posts: 1,987
    mjc1016 said:

    Actually, with working caustics, dispersion isn't that much more...

    Unless you're doing fake ones.

    That's a feat =) How long did it take even for "half way there"?

    It actually started as learning the weight mapping tool. I ended up re-editing the weights of all Genesis 2 joints to get something close to my corrective JCM set. THat took about one day work. Showed it to a friend and he said, why bother with TriAx? Since no one uses outside of DS & Carrara (plus Poser if you count the DSON importer). So I just convert started to convert the re-edited wieghts and joints to linear blend weights. Unfortunately, DS weight mapping tools are as archaic as the RSL shaders it bundles. After a certain point, adding bones just crashes the app.

    Then i decided to throw the default rig to the trash altogether and just do a complete rig from scratch. Prototyping limb per limb. That did take awhile. laugh It's generally done now, but I need to recheck for overly texture stretching and general morph compatibility.

    I stopped doing work on it a couple of months ago, after that Houdini sneak peak. FEM muscles laughsmiley Oh, that's just so nice.

    Gem rendering =) Not much, I know, just one of my "pet" subjects. I know I can do it in Lux the best way out of my options, true spectral rendering yadda yadda, but still.

    Oh yeah, there's that. Maybe down the road. The base target is to have a shader/material that's flexible enough to do metal/dieletric and good looking glass with transmission first.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    mjc1016 said:
    wowie said:
     

    Haven't thought about dispersion yet. I mean, it's cool to have, but does it really have practical use in production? If I had to choose, i'd rather have both refractive and reflective caustics, even fake ones than dispersion.

    Actually, with working caustics, dispersion isn't that much more...

    Soooo Mike, have you by any chance tried if GGX or GTR will accept a 3-tuple IoR for dielectrics now? I'm sure it should do the same thing for refractive photon-mapped caustics that the complex IoR does for reflective photon-mapped caustics (i.e. automagic colouring).

    No, I haven't...but I've seen some OSL stuff that looks promising.

    I've also been thinking if there was some sort of way to come up with an OSL/MDL 'exchange'...

  • dracorndracorn Posts: 2,307
    edited December 2016

     

    Ah, no. I don't know for sure, tho I suspect there was a time a single mesh surface could only do one thing with a shader, and I recall reading some where that many eye surfaces was a carry over from former generation figures from a long time ago.  To day it is not impossible to have a single layer of mesh do reflection, refraction, and other things to mimic the appearance of moisture over another surface. The actual eye surface is Sclera (eye whites), and the Irises, then inside the Iris is a lens or 'Pupils'. Over the Iris and Pupils is a protective transparent layer called the 'Cornea', and that is all there is to the actual eye surface.

    Over the eye is a layer of moisture including the former 'surface tension edge' on the lower eyelid, the former two eye moister zones are just one on G3F. The blue may be lack of something to reflect, a blue sky reflection, refraction and reflection of the Irises color, or a light. Over a year ago somewhere was a discussion on how to get the new G3F 'EyeMoisture' to not be so unpredictable, I don't remember where it was tho. It will take some adjusting of the settings you posted to figure it out. When you do get it figured out, save a copy of the 'Material Preset' for her, so you don't need to go threw all that work again.

    Eye Reflection layer/zone, was for having an environment reflection map on for scenes that did not actually have an environment, a form of fakery, lol. You can probably incorporate that into the 'EyeMoisture' layer/zone on G3F, shaders have come a long way since the days of Victoria3, lol.

    (edit)

    try backing off on the reflection strength a bit on the 'EyeMoisture' zone, I don't think I've ever needed more then 25% when "Multiply through opacity" is turned off on that. 60% looks rather high, or is AoA reflection that week vs the Daz Default shader?

    Random hypothetical thought for consideration. How effective would an eye be at seeing light if most of the light was reflected away before it got into the eye to be detected by the retina. lol.

    Thanks wowie and ZarconDeeGrissom.

    I am using Daz Default Shader, changed the background to blue sky (there was only an environment backdrop before), and lowered the reflection to 25%.  Both the specular and relfection are neutral gray and white, respectively.  I am still getting the blue line and no reflection on the eye, and frankly, I'm stumped.  Here are my settings:

    G3F Settings 2.jpg
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    Post edited by dracorn on
  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,400
    edited December 2016

    Yea, I suspect it is something with the geometry combined with the shader settings for what it is. The octagon tube that runs the length of the lower eyelid is what is giving you that (guessing) unwanted reflection/refraction of something else.

    the tube from the looks of it runs through the eye and the lower eyelid, so it may just be a refraction of the iris color or makeup color on the eyelid (possibly). I don't see that color anywhere else in your former renders, so I am somewhat out of ideas.  Wowie had an interesting thought of replacing geometry with a mesh shell (somehow?) to get around putting reflection/refraction on such an odd bit of surface, or did I totally not understand that? If I knew how to make a pose-conforming G3F geometry shell in Daz Studio without requiring ILM grade software like Modo or z-whatever-designer I would try it on Generation 7, it would also be incredibly useful for making many older outfits work.

    My apologies, I was not hinting that you should change the shader, I was merely asking in general about the reflection strength of different shaders.

    (EDIT)

    Where is that blue eyeliner/eyelashes from, I'm not seeing any MU face maps for that in Sushmita's map folder (only upper eyelid colors, all with black eyelashes)?

    Just did a quick test on the lashes from a few angles, the only thing I'm getting is from the Key light, left behind camera. (thinking... what else can I try?)

    Do you have a "UberEnvironment2" in the scene and if so, what are the settings? It's the only thing I can think of if that is not the color of the sky being reflected.

    G3F_Eye_Geom_02001lbl1.png
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    20161201_FwsaSushmita_EyeMakupe_01011.png
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    20161201_FwsaSushmita_EyelashesOrangeTest_01011.png
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    20161201_FwsaSushmita_EyelashesOrangeTest2_01011.png
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    20161201_FwsaSushmita_EyelashesOrangeTest2_settings_01011.png
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    20161201_FwsaSushmita_EyelashesOrangeTest2_01011lbl1.png
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    20161201_FwsaSushmita_EyelashesOrangeTest2_TatKeyLight_01011lbl1.png
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    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
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