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added jcms driving me crazy!!

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  • barbultbarbult Posts: 27,208
    @lilweep that's helpful info. The only thing I could find online for info about keyed morphs was about using the timeline, but it was beyond my ability to understand. Using your method, how do I turn an unkeyed morph into a keyed morph so I can find that + to add a key? You can see I am really clueless about this topic. I'd like lo learn a new skill.
  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 2,841
    edited June 15

    barbult said:

    @lilweep that's helpful info. The only thing I could find online for info about keyed morphs was about using the timeline, but it was beyond my ability to understand. Using your method, how do I turn an unkeyed morph into a keyed morph so I can find that + to add a key? You can see I am really clueless about this topic. I'd like lo learn a new skill.

    For controller "Type" on the 1st Stage Controller, you can choose between different controller types -  Add, Subtract, Keyed. 
    Just like on 2nd Stage Controller, you can choose between Multiply or Divide.

    Click on 'Type' and choose the option.  Perhaps it involves right-clicking to bring up the options.

    Im not at computer.  attaching Allstereo's guide for reference, which should have everything one needs to know about ERC options and settings.

    pdf
    pdf
    Tutorial DAZ Studio ERC feature.pdf
    973K
    Post edited by lilweep on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 27,208

    lilweep said:

    barbult said:

    @lilweep that's helpful info. The only thing I could find online for info about keyed morphs was about using the timeline, but it was beyond my ability to understand. Using your method, how do I turn an unkeyed morph into a keyed morph so I can find that + to add a key? You can see I am really clueless about this topic. I'd like lo learn a new skill.

    For controller "Type" on the 1st Stage Controller, you can choose between different controller types -  Add, Subtract, Keyed. 
    Just like on 2nd Stage Controller, you can choose between Multiply or Divide.

    Click on 'Type' and choose the option.  Perhaps it involves right-clicking to bring up the options.

    Im not at computer.  attaching Allstereo's guide for reference, which should have everything one needs to know about ERC options and settings.

    Thank you again! Even without being at your coumputer, you described it well enough for me to follow. I never would have figured this out without good help. I'll look at the attached document, for other insights, too, but you really provided the targeted answers I needed for this particular case.yes

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 9,943
    edited June 15

    barbult said:

    There appear to be more problems with morphs from one side modifying vertices on the opposite side,  This time I noticed that a LEFT side morph 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendn60_l modifies vertices on the RIGHT side also. And the vertices on the right side aren't even a mirror of the vertices that are modified on the left side. Earlier, we found problems with the morphs for the right side, but now the left side also has problems. 

    EDIT: And correspondingly, 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendp60_r modifies vertices on the LEFT side also. (Hmm I can't reproduce this error now.Anyone else see this problem with the 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendp60_r?)

    I don't know any reason that bending a finger on one hand should affect the opposite hand. These morphs must both be wrong.

    Yea, I could reproduce the issue. This cbs property moves index vertices on both sides... but not symmetrically.

    I think the cause of the issue might be :

    1) The vendor sculpted the right index on a G9 Base that already has delta vertex change on the left index for some reason. Before exporting to OBJ, they didn't clear the delta on the left  ~
    2) Or, if the vendor imported OBJ by using Mirroring or Attenuate option in Morph Loader Pro, they should've checked n' cleared the Delta on the other side... or just attenuated on the right side...

    There may be other reasons that I have no idea by now... 

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    Post edited by crosswind on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 27,208

    crosswind said:

    barbult said:

    There appear to be more problems with morphs from one side modifying vertices on the opposite side,  This time I noticed that a LEFT side morph 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendn60_l modifies vertices on the RIGHT side also. And the vertices on the right side aren't even a mirror of the vertices that are modified on the left side. Earlier, we found problems with the morphs for the right side, but now the left side also has problems. 

    EDIT: And correspondingly, 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendp60_r modifies vertices on the LEFT side also. (Hmm I can't reproduce this error now.Anyone else see this problem with the 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendp60_r?)

    I don't know any reason that bending a finger on one hand should affect the opposite hand. These morphs must both be wrong.

    Yea, I could reproduce the issue. This cbs property moves index vertices on both sides... but not symmetrically.

    I think the cause of the issue might be :

    1) The vendor sculpted the right index on a G9 Base that already has delta vertex change on the left index for some reason. Before exporting to OBJ, they didn't clear the delta on the left  ~
    2) Or, if the vendor imported OBJ by using Mirroring or Attenuate option in Morph Loader Pro, they should've checked n' cleared the Delta on the other side... or just attenuated on the right side...

    There may be other reasons that I have no idea by now... 

    Thank you for checking. 3D Universe sells his own set of utilities to work with morphs (good tools, I recommend them). He probably used those, but made mistakes and/or didn't finish the job, especially on the right finger morphs.  Or he made corrections and sent updated files to Daz and they lost them, and the files never made it into DIM. 

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 9,943

    barbult said:

    crosswind said:

    barbult said:

    There appear to be more problems with morphs from one side modifying vertices on the opposite side,  This time I noticed that a LEFT side morph 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendn60_l modifies vertices on the RIGHT side also. And the vertices on the right side aren't even a mirror of the vertices that are modified on the left side. Earlier, we found problems with the morphs for the right side, but now the left side also has problems. 

    EDIT: And correspondingly, 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendp60_r modifies vertices on the LEFT side also. (Hmm I can't reproduce this error now.Anyone else see this problem with the 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendp60_r?)

    I don't know any reason that bending a finger on one hand should affect the opposite hand. These morphs must both be wrong.

    Yea, I could reproduce the issue. This cbs property moves index vertices on both sides... but not symmetrically.

    I think the cause of the issue might be :

    1) The vendor sculpted the right index on a G9 Base that already has delta vertex change on the left index for some reason. Before exporting to OBJ, they didn't clear the delta on the left  ~
    2) Or, if the vendor imported OBJ by using Mirroring or Attenuate option in Morph Loader Pro, they should've checked n' cleared the Delta on the other side... or just attenuated on the right side...

    There may be other reasons that I have no idea by now... 

    Thank you for checking. 3D Universe sells his own set of utilities to work with morphs (good tools, I recommend them). He probably used those, but made mistakes and/or didn't finish the job, especially on the right finger morphs.  Or he made corrections and sent updated files to Daz and they lost them, and the files never made it into DIM. 

    Hmm, probably ~~

    And thanks ! I have that set of utilities but it seems that I rarely use them till now, haha ~ 

    Will check!

  • ElorElor Posts: 3,937

    mrpenguin76 said:

    To fix those last four you need to have the Right Hand Bone Selected on the G9 as the [A] Attributes you need to drag for each finger are under Pose Controls, so you will not see them in parameters with just the G9 Selected. (Example: Label "Right Index Finger Bend" Name"body_ctrl_rIndexBend", Drag that to the 1st Stage of "3duJCMFF_IndexBend_r" in Property Hierarchy Pane (edit mode on in parameters of course to be able to drag it, Then do the same for the other 3 fingers... IF you want to fix them yourself.)

    If you type only IndexBend in the search field of the property hierarchy, you should get the properties related to Focus Finger (to see how the left property is set) and the missing property for the right property, so no need to select the hand: you can just drag and drop the missing property from the property hiearchy panel.

    I think I have fixed all the properties reported, now onto removing the vertices wrongly moved by the two morphs identified by @barbult before saving everything.

    Question: if I save the scene with the Genesis 9 figure I loaded to fix the problems, will the problems stay fixed if I load that scene back, in case I made a mistake saving the properties themselves?

  • ElorElor Posts: 3,937
    edited June 15

    3duJCMFF_Index1Bendp95_r also have vertices on both hand.

    What's strange, while 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendn95_l only have vertices on the left hand, the selection is very different compared to 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendp95_r when these morphs should, I think , be mirrored.

    3duJCMFF_Index1Bendp95_r:

    3duJCMFF_Index1Bendn95_l:

    Edit: looking at other finders, similar 95 bend morphs have an influence only on the bone they are named after, so it's just a guess, but should someone wanted to fix the problem on 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendp95_r, it'll likely require mirroring 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendn95_l

    I don't know if there is a better way than exporting 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendn95_l (dialed at 100%) and asking Morph Loader Pro to mirror it before applying (I'm not exactly sure how to do that either cool).

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    Post edited by Elor on
  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 9,943

    Elor said:

    mrpenguin76 said:

    To fix those last four you need to have the Right Hand Bone Selected on the G9 as the [A] Attributes you need to drag for each finger are under Pose Controls, so you will not see them in parameters with just the G9 Selected. (Example: Label "Right Index Finger Bend" Name"body_ctrl_rIndexBend", Drag that to the 1st Stage of "3duJCMFF_IndexBend_r" in Property Hierarchy Pane (edit mode on in parameters of course to be able to drag it, Then do the same for the other 3 fingers... IF you want to fix them yourself.)

    If you type only IndexBend in the search field of the property hierarchy, you should get the properties related to Focus Finger (to see how the left property is set) and the missing property for the right property, so no need to select the hand: you can just drag and drop the missing property from the property hiearchy panel.

    I think I have fixed all the properties reported, now onto removing the vertices wrongly moved by the two morphs identified by @barbult before saving everything.

    Question: if I save the scene with the Genesis 9 figure I loaded to fix the problems, will the problems stay fixed if I load that scene back, in case I made a mistake saving the properties themselves?

    Yes, the data of the fixed properties will stay within the saved Scene file. The issue will stay fixed if you load the saved Scene next time. 

    Just remember to Save Modified Assets... 

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 9,943
    edited June 15

    Elor said:

    3duJCMFF_Index1Bendp95_r also have vertices on both hand.

    What's strange, while 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendn95_l only have vertices on the left hand, the selection is very different compared to 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendp95_r when these morphs should, I think , be mirrored.

    3duJCMFF_Index1Bendp95_r:

    3duJCMFF_Index1Bendn95_l:

    Edit: looking at other finders, similar 95 bend morphs have an influence only on the bone they are named after, so it's just a guess, but should someone wanted to fix the problem on 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendp95_r, it'll likely require mirroring 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendn95_l

    I don't know if there is a better way than exporting 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendn95_l (dialed at 100%) and asking Morph Loader Pro to mirror it before applying (I'm not exactly sure how to do that either cool).

    Firstly, 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendp95_r  is a totally wrong morph. If you dial it, you'll see two index fingers bend (screenshot 1) rather than behaving as a corrective morph (delta fix...)

    To fix it, yes, using Morph Mirroring option in MLP should be the best way in this case.
    1) Restore figure's shape to make sure no morph is dialed on G9.  Click the chain icon on the property of 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendn95_l to override its Controllers. Dial it to 100%. (screenshot 2)
    2) Export G9 with Base Resolution to OBJ with file name : 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendp95_r  Zero 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendn95_l
    3) With MLP opened, load the OBJ file by using the settings in (Screenshot 3), i.e. set X: Swap in Morph Mirroring. Accept.
    4) In Property Hierarchy, drag 3DU Finger Focus to 2nd Stage Controller of 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendp95_r   Drag Right Index 1 > Bend to the 1st Stage Controller of 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendp95_r
    5) Set Keys in its Attributes of 1st Stage Controller > 60:0, 95:1, as the settings in (Screenshot 4)

    Now it's fixed. Test Right Index 1's Bend to see if the corrective morph works as expected. Then Save Modified Asset for the fixed one.

    Edit: As for fixing 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendn60_l and 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendp60_r,  the influenced vertices on the other side need to be Morph Editing > Clear Selected Deltas with Geometry Editor (Unselect the vertices on the correct side beforehand !) Then Save Modified Assets.

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    Post edited by crosswind on
  • ElorElor Posts: 3,937
    edited June 15

    Thank you: if I didn't forget anything, it's the last morph I have to fix.

    And sorry, after re-reading the discussion, I see that I forgot @barbult already reported the problem of 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendp95_r having deltas from both side.

    Edit: I saved 7 modified morphs (which I think is the number of the bugged ones), following advices from mrpenguin76 and Richard Haseltine.

    I'll have to check if I didn't make any mistake angel

    Edit 2: Of course, I forgot to save a morph, the total is actually 8 bugged morphs so far.

     

    Post edited by Elor on
  • ElorElor Posts: 3,937
    edited June 24

    An update is available:

    Some of the items marked as issues are part of the design.

    • The Thumb Web morph is supposed to affect both hands as it make the hands more realistic.
    • The rotate and scale of certain joints are designed to adjust the joints for more realism.

     

    • FIXED - 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendn50_r Has no [Multiply] controllers.
    • FIXED - 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendp95_r Has No controllers.
    • FIXED - 3duJCMFF_IndexBend_r Has [Multiply] but not [Add].
    • FIXED - 3duJCMFF_Mid1Bendp95_r Has No controllers.
    • FIXED - 3duJCMFF_MidBend_r Has [Multiply] but not [Add].
    • FIXED - 3duJCMFF_PinkyBend_r Has [Multiply] but not [Add].
    • FIXED - 3duJCMFF_RingBend_r Has [Multiply] but not [Add].
    • FIXED - 3duPCMFF_ThumbWeb Has no [Multiply] controllers.

    These all affect both right and left sides:

    • AS DESIGNED - 3duPCMFF_ThumbWeb
    • FIXED - 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendp95_r
    • FIXED - 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendn60_l
    • FIXED - 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendp60_r

    These all control the joints instead of being controlled by them:

    • AS DESIGNED - 3duJCMFF_IndexBend_l controls left index 1 zrotate
    • AS DESIGNED - 3duJCMFF_IndexBend_r controls right index 1 zrotate
    • AS DESIGNED - 3duJCMFF_MidBend_l controls left mid 1 zrotate
    • AS DESIGNED - 3duJCMFF_MidBend_r controls right mid 1 zrotate
    • AS DESIGNED - 3duJCMFF_PinkyBend_l controls left pinky 1 zrotate and xscale
    • AS DESIGNED - 3duJCMFF_PinkyBend_r controls right pinky 1 zrotate and xscale
    • AS DESIGNED - 3duJCMFF_RingBend_l controls left ring 1 zrotate and left ring 2 zrotate
    • AS DESIGNED - 3duJCMFF_RingBend_r controls right ring 1 zrotate and right ring 2 zrotate
    • AS DESIGNED - 3duJCMFF_ThumbFist_l controls left thumb 1 xrotate, yrotate, zrotate, zscale, xscale
    • AS DESIGNED - 3duJCMFF_ThumbFist_r controls right thumb 1 xrotate, yrotate, zrotate, zscale, xscale

    ​Source: https://docs.daz3d.com/public/read_me/index/112000_112999/112674/start

    Post edited by Elor on
  • mindsongmindsong Posts: 1,769

    Thanks to 3DU for getting on this!, and thanks to the folks that ID-d the problem and posted the details involved in fixing such issues.

    --ms

    Elor said:

    An update is available:

    Some of the items marked as issues are part of the design.

    • The Thumb Web morph is supposed to affect both hands as it make the hands more realistic.
    • The rotate and scale of certain joints are designed to adjust the joints for more realism.

     

    • FIXED - 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendn50_r Has no [Multiply] controllers.
    • FIXED - 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendp95_r Has No controllers.
    • FIXED - 3duJCMFF_IndexBend_r Has [Multiply] but not [Add].
    • FIXED - 3duJCMFF_Mid1Bendp95_r Has No controllers.
    • FIXED - 3duJCMFF_MidBend_r Has [Multiply] but not [Add].
    • FIXED - 3duJCMFF_PinkyBend_r Has [Multiply] but not [Add].
    • FIXED - 3duJCMFF_RingBend_r Has [Multiply] but not [Add].
    • FIXED - 3duPCMFF_ThumbWeb Has no [Multiply] controllers.

    These all affect both right and left sides:

    • AS DESIGNED - 3duPCMFF_ThumbWeb
    • FIXED - 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendp95_r
    • FIXED - 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendn60_l
    • FIXED - 3duJCMFF_Index1Bendp60_r

    These all control the joints instead of being controlled by them:

    • AS DESIGNED - 3duJCMFF_IndexBend_l controls left index 1 zrotate
    • AS DESIGNED - 3duJCMFF_IndexBend_r controls right index 1 zrotate
    • AS DESIGNED - 3duJCMFF_MidBend_l controls left mid 1 zrotate
    • AS DESIGNED - 3duJCMFF_MidBend_r controls right mid 1 zrotate
    • AS DESIGNED - 3duJCMFF_PinkyBend_l controls left pinky 1 zrotate and xscale
    • AS DESIGNED - 3duJCMFF_PinkyBend_r controls right pinky 1 zrotate and xscale
    • AS DESIGNED - 3duJCMFF_RingBend_l controls left ring 1 zrotate and left ring 2 zrotate
    • AS DESIGNED - 3duJCMFF_RingBend_r controls right ring 1 zrotate and right ring 2 zrotate
    • AS DESIGNED - 3duJCMFF_ThumbFist_l controls left thumb 1 xrotate, yrotate, zrotate, zscale, xscale
    • AS DESIGNED - 3duJCMFF_ThumbFist_r controls right thumb 1 xrotate, yrotate, zrotate, zscale, xscale

    ​Source: https://docs.daz3d.com/public/read_me/index/112000_112999/112674/start

  • MechasarMechasar Posts: 265

    Phoenix1966 said:

    All those named characters do not have their joint corrective morphs tied to their specific characters' bodies. So they fire whenever you use any G9. You can uninstall them(the problematic characters) from your library and/or file tickets with Daz support to get those character products updated.

    I filed a ticket recently on Beverly 9, was told they knew there was an issue and support closed my ticket. So your mileage may vary regarding fixes.

    You can also go through the process of fixing them yourself(where you add the specific character's body to the cbs 2nd controller). 

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/743756/corrective-morph-problem?

    Hello. I just came across your post. I've provided a response on the other thread if that helps, or if you'de like to discuss it further. Thanks

     https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/590766/mechasar-s-characters-catalog-who-s-next-commercial

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