You've been heard. Response re: 4.9 and Encryption

Richard Haseltine

Just to be clear, this wasn't a question of Jack and I having to twist arms - Daz was quite clear that there was never an intent to encrypt freebies that were purchased as part of the PC+ - it was just a question of sorting things out. I know that the freebie is to be updated, so it's just a question of waiting for everything to sync.

dbdigital2

DAZ_Steve said:

I want to thank everyone, on behalf of all of us at Daz, for your input, ideas and perspectives, as well as for the huge adoption we have already seen with Daz Studio 4.9. I want to also thank those that have not adopted yet for offering their feedback.

Based on the feedback we’ve received through the forums, customer emails, support tickets, etc., there are 3 main areas that we would like to address:

1. Encryption and DRM.

2. Difficulty or confusion in finding and installing products through Daz Connect.

3. Frustration over missing functionality in the Content Library pane experience.

As I outline our position on each of the above, let me state that we fully realize that our solutions will not solve everyone's concerns in these areas, but we think that these are key next-steps to solve the majority of them.  These are high level updates for you.  More in-depth details for each one of these solutions will be provided in the coming weeks, with our intention being to roll all of these out during Q1 2016:

 

1. Encryption and DRM.

Currently Daz Connect gives customers the ability to install (among other things) encrypted content.  Daz Connect also lets customers retrieve a Key to decrypt their content.  Customers have raised the concerns of: What if Daz is not available to provide the keys anymore, chooses not to, or starts charging an additional fee to get a key for previously purchased content?

Solution: We have developed and fully tested a utility which will decrypt, and save in non-encrypted formats, Daz products on a customer’s computer.  We are also working out details with a software escrow company who will provide this utility to the public free of charge in the event that Daz is no longer in a business position to, or is unwilling to continue offering this as a free service.  This will also be added to the Daz EULA to ensure customers of our commitment to enable them to always be able to use content that they have purchased a license for.

Obviously this does not address some of the other issues such as scripts and tools that work on un-encrypted content.  But those are solved in other ways.  We are working (and will continue to work) with developers who have this need, in order to show them how to do it with encrypted content.

 

2. Difficulty or confusion in finding and installing products through Daz Connect.

People can't find their products to install, or fail to install them.

Solution: In addition to the existing functionality in the Smart Content pane, we will be providing a new Pane titled "Install" (or something similar) which is used specifically to install/uninstall content.  It will be a much easier experience, and we have worked out many of the hiccups in the install process.  We also have MANY solutions that will be incorporated  to make installing, managing, finding and using older content that lacks metadata a lot easier.

 

3. Frustration over missing functionality in the Content Library pane experience.

Solution: Obviously the description of this solution could get very detailed.  At a high level, we have a solution that we will be rolling into testing in the coming weeks which allows customers to navigate the hierarchy they are used to in Content Library as they have in the past.   Again, I know there will be a TON of questions on this subject.  More detailed descriptions will be provided as the implementation details become more concrete.

 

Thank you everyone for your input, advice, and candid opinions.

Steve Spencer

VP of Marketing

Daz 3D

Steve, first thank you for the official response but I would say "You've been heard, but we really didn't listen" would be a better topic title.  While the aspect of a decrypted method given escrow to a company is a good idea it is continuing with the same path, nothing has changed from our comments other than making this official in the terms of service.  Which to be honest, I have ALSO had before and been ignored/lost content due to it when the company folded.  Again nice idea but today I see one of the free PC+ item is encrypted only (the toll booth), as such I am canceling my subscription and will not be downloading the item even IF IT IS FREE.  And I suspect a lot of the new PC+ free items will be this way in the future, if not all of them.  I can see the writing on the wall.
 

You say you have a fully tested method of decrypting all assets on the users computer.  Have you tested this with a hard drive FULL of encrypted content?  How long did it take?  Did it work fine on those conditions?  How well has this been tested?  We see all the bugs and problems with Daz Studio and Connect now, how can we be truly sure this will WORK when you are gone?  Are you going to be testing it on all computers in the future?  How about all operating systems?  Oh wait perhaps it won't work on anything lower than Windows 10?  What happens to those with older systems?  You can see where I am gong with this?  I can't imagine this being truly tested in all configurations and trust worthy.  Like I said I have seen this before and even when the poison pill is given...ooops error can't decrypt this or that. Then what do we do?  File a ticket with a company that has folded?  Again you listened but didn't hear what we were saying.  You simply do not see all the problems and permutations, NO ONE CAN.  And it will only lead to heartache for your PAYING customers saddled with this disaster.  Those that do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it....

Smith Micro made an announcement a few days ago that they will not be pursuing DRM in any way shape or form.  One of the reasons: "DRM is nondescript and treats all customers as thieves".  In short Smith Micro wants my money and support you don't.  That is fine.  I have no problem with it, other than it being a sad day that we must part ways.  But wars often have unindented casualties, and apparently I am one of them. 

If you change your mind, let us know and we may come back.   Most of us really want to be here, but apparently you don't since you are calling us a thieves.  Like I said previously, better to find out now than after all new DAZ content goes encrypted.  But sadly since all of your competitors all say DRM is bad and you are the only ones not listening, well, I suspect this is only going to hurt you in the long run.  Not me.  I can go somewhere else.  You on the other hand need us more than we need you.  It is a sad sad day.

Yes other aspects of content have went the DRM method.  It has all been hacked or cracked.  In the case of ebooks, sure many people still buy them but MOST people then get the ebooks one way or another and remove the DRM so that they know they can access their books they purchased in the future.  Yes they may still buy DRM content but only if it can be removed, and not dependant upon a company's promise to do so.  Sadly we have all had such promises before, and all of them broken.  You don't trust us, so why should we trust you?  Trust is a two way street.  Some people may come back once your DRM is cracked wide open and can remove it.  So again what is the point except driving away good PAYING customers that do not want to deal with crazy DRM schemes?  Especially when we can go somewhere else, it s not worth our time even if we can remove the DRM.  Also we don't like being called thieves.  Very similar to calling all Muslims something less than nice for the simple reason that some people use the religion as a excuse to forward their extreme ideals.  But that is not ALL of them.  To put all of your customers in the one basket like that and call them thieves is not a good way to do business.  Especially since in the long run it will only hurt your bottom line, not help.  Regardless I wish you well on this path, even though I don't see it moving in the right direction.

HellcatF6F

DAZ_Jon said:

People have brought both of them up before, but the first great example is Steam. Regardless of what people say, Steam is a DRM platform. It was originally done to track licenses and curb piracy on valves games, at the time of launch, half life 2, back in 2003. At the time it was largely reviled and pretty much everyone hated it because it was seen as an intrusion on privacy and way too different from normal methods of distribution which didn't have a phone home. Fast forward to 2007 and attitudes greatly changed and it finally was getting acceptance and a lot of other publishers interested in selling through them, largely because of a massive downturn in traditional methods of distribution in pc games. Now it is, generally, seen as being generally awesome because, where as it is a DRM platform, put out by people who as a while don't like DRM, so really put in lots of effort and years of work to get it the right balance of being DRM which is actually transparent or customer friendly. There are several well written articles and interviews with gaben back in the day that paint a pretty clear picture as to the actual history and motivation of the platform.

Second example is smart phones. No smart phone out there exists without DRM. It may not "benefit" the customer, but it is pretty much completely transparent and ties into a delivery mechanism where you can find, install, and use the app without having to have any technical background as to what the device is doing or where it is installing things. The DRM, especially in the case of the Apple store, could be said to be a benefit since it encourages developers to develop for it since they know their work is a little more protected and they get paid closer to what they deserve if it is successful than without it, which provides users with a wider selection of apps they might not otherwise have.

Now I'm not saying these compare exactly with this market, no two markets are alike. But it is two huge examples, in the excess of billions of dollars worth, where essentially DRM platforms were a benefit for customers. Yes, they might have been able to accomplish the same without DRM, but that is arguing hypotheticals versus what their platforms actually are.

In recent months there has been controversy over some Steam games running in an encrypted virtual machine called Denuvo (which is separate from Steam's own DRM). In a departure from their tradition of transparency, Valve has not listed the games that use Denuvo as "3rd party DRM."

GOG has adopted Steam's model (content delivery, auto updates, chat, achievements, etc) without the DRM and its market share has grown steadily over eight years. In fact Witcher 3 was more successful on GOG's own Galaxy than Steam, PSN and XBL combined.

dbdigital2

Hellcat-1466942 said:

DAZ_Jon said:

People have brought both of them up before, but the first great example is Steam. Regardless of what people say, Steam is a DRM platform. It was originally done to track licenses and curb piracy on valves games, at the time of launch, half life 2, back in 2003. At the time it was largely reviled and pretty much everyone hated it because it was seen as an intrusion on privacy and way too different from normal methods of distribution which didn't have a phone home. Fast forward to 2007 and attitudes greatly changed and it finally was getting acceptance and a lot of other publishers interested in selling through them, largely because of a massive downturn in traditional methods of distribution in pc games. Now it is, generally, seen as being generally awesome because, where as it is a DRM platform, put out by people who as a while don't like DRM, so really put in lots of effort and years of work to get it the right balance of being DRM which is actually transparent or customer friendly. There are several well written articles and interviews with gaben back in the day that paint a pretty clear picture as to the actual history and motivation of the platform.

Second example is smart phones. No smart phone out there exists without DRM. It may not "benefit" the customer, but it is pretty much completely transparent and ties into a delivery mechanism where you can find, install, and use the app without having to have any technical background as to what the device is doing or where it is installing things. The DRM, especially in the case of the Apple store, could be said to be a benefit since it encourages developers to develop for it since they know their work is a little more protected and they get paid closer to what they deserve if it is successful than without it, which provides users with a wider selection of apps they might not otherwise have.

Now I'm not saying these compare exactly with this market, no two markets are alike. But it is two huge examples, in the excess of billions of dollars worth, where essentially DRM platforms were a benefit for customers. Yes, they might have been able to accomplish the same without DRM, but that is arguing hypotheticals versus what their platforms actually are.

Jon you mentioned DRM in smart phones.  Apparently you don't know them that well as you think.  Many MANY people have rooted or otherwise UNLOCKED them so they can BACKUP their apps or access other data that is otherwise locked to the phone.  Many of us won't buy a phone unless we can root/unlock it.  If we can't access our data it is not worth having the phone.  It is as simple as that.  For the people that don't, well they haven't had to change phones and woops that data can't be backedup or moved to the new phone easily.  The most popular app and reason for rooting?  Titanium Backup, or nandriod backup (better yet).  Again it is all to safeguard OUR data and the content WE PURCHASED.

With regard to STEAM, yes I have a steam account but I have only spent $1 there.  Why?  Because of the DRM.  All of my games there are freebies that were given as some sort of promotion.  I am one of the "steam leaches" I use a ton of bandwidth to download/install/reinstall games (as I don't have room for them all) but they don't get a dime out of me.  Another reason I don't use Steam much:, the games take too long to download and I don't have a easy way to uninstall/back them up for later.  Now GOG by contrast I have a TON of games from and they get money from me on a regular basis.  I dowload once, play the game, uninstall and then send the install file to my game storage drive.  I can reinstall and play the game in less than a minute.  Steam, well, most of them will take all day to get again, if not longer.  Steam has weeknend trials, which I am never able to try as my connection is too slow.  By the time I have downloaded the game, the trial is over. :/  Not their fault per say, but you can see why I don't like the system.  I am also not online with all of my systems, hence hard to play steam games on those systems (aka I don't which again limits the usefulness of the system).

lx_2807502

frank0314 said:

I don't think there's any real chance DRM will go away until a few months of sales data come in. At that point we'll all see if the customers actually care.

I agree with William. Time (and $$$) will tell if DRM is good, bad or it doesn't matter. Remember, although the anti-DRM group here in the Forums is VERY vocal, they may not represent a larger group of non-Forum users who either don't care or don't even know what DRM is.

I am pleased to know that at least some sort of "doomsday switch" scenario is in place. I'm not 100% reassured, but I'm about 85%. 

On the PLUS side, I'm happy to hear about the addition of an "Install" tab (or whatever it will be called). I've only played with DS 4.9 a little bit so far, and found the whole Connect thing to be a bit confusing and not as easy to use as the DIM.

We will never get a its good or its bad. Forum users only make up 8-10% of the customer base here at Daz. What everyone in the forums can dislike the majority who aren't vocal may like.

We are, however, 100% of the forum user base. Can we get a survey on how many of us like having only a white background compared to having a light/dark colour scheme option?

lx_2807502

Richard Haseltine said:

Just to be clear, this wasn't a question of Jack and I having to twist arms - Daz was quite clear that there was never an intent to encrypt freebies that were purchased as part of the PC+ - it was just a question of sorting things out. I know that the freebie is to be updated, so it's just a question of waiting for everything to sync.

1. First patch of beta all things are encrypted. After outcry this is quickly changed, now "we planned it to test but didn't want public to be upset so we adjusted the next patch to not encrypt all Connect content."

2. First wave of encrypted content is released, but somehow it initially winds up on DIM instead of encrypted for a short time.

3. Second wave of encrypted content is released, this time without issue.

4. Third wave of encrypted content features detective bundle which is advertised as encrypted on its banner, but some of its pieces aren't encrypted initially. This is fixed but not before upsetting some customers (who I guess didn't read the banner, but double checked install types on items in their cart before hitting buy?)

5. Fourth sort-of wave of encrypted content appears in the form of the weekly PC+ freebie being offered as encrypted-only, despite the fact that the actual files aren't encrypted and still include Poser-support (which means it was never really an ideal item to encrypt in the first place.)

Now each time these things have gone wrong, I believe the explanations given. But Encrypted Connect is at 1 for 5 for attempting to release encrypted products without some sort of major screw up that's upset a load of customers and needed a quick backtracking from the misplaced DRM. Is all this really worth it?

Perhaps at this point it would be better to bite the bullet and simply release an encrypted item along with some similar nonencrypted items with the same terms as them in order to get some normal data.

 

Edit: updated to account for extra wave of releases.

Richard Haseltine

lx said:

Richard Haseltine said:

Just to be clear, this wasn't a question of Jack and I having to twist arms - Daz was quite clear that there was never an intent to encrypt freebies that were purchased as part of the PC+ - it was just a question of sorting things out. I know that the freebie is to be updated, so it's just a question of waiting for everything to sync.

1. First patch of beta all things are encrypted. After outcry this is quickly changed, now "we planned it to test but didn't want public to be upset so we adjusted the next patch to not encrypt all Connect content."

2. First wave of encrypted content is released, but somehow it initially winds up on DIM instead of encrypted for a short time.

3. Second wave of encrypted content features detective bundle which is advertised as encrypted on its banner, but some of its pieces aren't encrypted initially. This is fixed but not before upsetting some customers (who I guess didn't read the banner, but double checked install types on items in their cart before hitting buy?)

4. Third sort-of wave of encrypted content appears in the form of the weekly PC+ freebie being offered as encrypted-only, despite the fact that the actual files aren't encrypted and still include Poser-support (which means it was never really an ideal item to encrypt in the first place.)

Now each time these things have gone wrong, I believe the explanations given. But Encrypted Connect is at 0 for 4 for attempting to release encrypted products without some sort of major screw up that's upset a load of customers and needed a quick backtracking from the misplaced DRM. Is all this really worth it?

Perhaps at this point it would be better to bite the bullet and simply release an encrypted item along with some similar nonencrypted items with the same terms as them in order to get some normal data.

Actually there was a second wave of free-with-purchase items on the Saturday and they had no issues. This is new stuff for Daz too, so there are bound to be some misfires of the wrong-files-uploaded type initially.

lx_2807502

Richard Haseltine said:

lx said:

Richard Haseltine said:

Just to be clear, this wasn't a question of Jack and I having to twist arms - Daz was quite clear that there was never an intent to encrypt freebies that were purchased as part of the PC+ - it was just a question of sorting things out. I know that the freebie is to be updated, so it's just a question of waiting for everything to sync.

1. First patch of beta all things are encrypted. After outcry this is quickly changed, now "we planned it to test but didn't want public to be upset so we adjusted the next patch to not encrypt all Connect content."

2. First wave of encrypted content is released, but somehow it initially winds up on DIM instead of encrypted for a short time.

3. Second wave of encrypted content features detective bundle which is advertised as encrypted on its banner, but some of its pieces aren't encrypted initially. This is fixed but not before upsetting some customers (who I guess didn't read the banner, but double checked install types on items in their cart before hitting buy?)

4. Third sort-of wave of encrypted content appears in the form of the weekly PC+ freebie being offered as encrypted-only, despite the fact that the actual files aren't encrypted and still include Poser-support (which means it was never really an ideal item to encrypt in the first place.)

Now each time these things have gone wrong, I believe the explanations given. But Encrypted Connect is at 0 for 4 for attempting to release encrypted products without some sort of major screw up that's upset a load of customers and needed a quick backtracking from the misplaced DRM. Is all this really worth it?

Perhaps at this point it would be better to bite the bullet and simply release an encrypted item along with some similar nonencrypted items with the same terms as them in order to get some normal data.

Actually there was a second wave of free-with-purchase items on the Saturday and they had no issues. This is new stuff for Daz too, so there are bound to be some misfires of the wrong-files-uploaded type initially.

Yeah, you're right - I was counting those as the same as the Gianni releases but they were a separate offer. My bad.

kyoto kid

Charlie Judge said:

fool said:

it's not encrypted

the toll booth

it is connect only but normal duf and Poser files too!!!!

the cr2 loads fine in carrara 

 

I'm confused too. Install types in the product description say it is encrypted only. So how do I get it if I don't use DS4.9?

...I thought I read that anything downloaded and installed through Connect would be automatically encrypted.

lx_2807502

kyoto kid said:

Charlie Judge said:

fool said:

it's not encrypted

the toll booth

it is connect only but normal duf and Poser files too!!!!

the cr2 loads fine in carrara 

 

I'm confused too. Install types in the product description say it is encrypted only. So how do I get it if I don't use DS4.9?

...I thought I read that anything downloaded and installed through Connect would be automatically encrypted.

No, only the new encrypted items marked as such are meant to be encrypted. Anything else obtained via Connect isn't meant to be encrypted.

Havos

Today's PC freebie that was almost a DAZ Only, and then changed back again has had some use to DAZ. They are now well aware of the stink that encrypting PC+ products and/or their associated freebies will kick up.

DustRider

Like others have noted, if  PC+ and/or PC+ related items (including Daz Originals) become connect only, or connect encrypted only, this will significantly de-value the PC for me. Having to jump through more hoops just to use the content in Carrara simply is not an appealing proposition. Going forward I am being very carefull with my purchases here, primarily due to the seemingly willy-nilly way things are being done with Connect and encrypted content releases. Even though Daz has indicated there are developing G3 compatibility with Carrara, the lack of connect and encrypted content support for Carrara makes me wonder if possibly they have changed their mind and simply decided not to let us know.

Thanks to these new developments from Daz with connect/connect encrypted content, and the way Daz seems to be changing what they "intend" to do on the fly (i.e. "We don't have plans to do it at this time" .... oopps, changed our minds at the last minute, but it's OK cause we didn't give a definitive answer before), I have actually started to evaluate this hobby in a larger context. First, I'm looking at alternatives to Carrara - which with the exception of DS, all lead me away from DAZ. Second, I'm looking at the continued cost of this hobby vs other personal interests/hobbies, and actually doing a cost/benefit analysis on them. True, I've had/have the feeling that Daz was slowly letting Carrara die, and subtly encouraging Carrara users to go to DS (personal opinion). I also find DS fun to use, but it doesn't replace what is available in Carrara. So for now, my spending is reduced while I work on answering some of these questions. I'm not saying I'm done with Daz or Carrara, because I will no doubt continue to use what I have to enjoy this hobby, even if I decide to focus in a different direction with my free time activities.

Idea: It would be nice if Daz would release some no strings attached freebies for connect/encrypted content so Carrara (and DS, and Poser) users can test those items. So far, the freebie encrypted content has either been free by either buying something I didn't need.want, or spending more than I could really afford (thus, not really free for me).

 

Note: Yes, I have posted a lot about connect/encrypted content and it's lack of compatibility with Carrara, and the general loss in value for Carrara users. On the flip side, I have also been one of the most vocal users showing that most Genesis and Genesis 2 content works quite well in Carrara to help dispel the urban myths about Genesis/Genesis 2 not being usable in Carrara. I've typically been a big Daz supporter, unfortunately, lately Daz has given me reason to be unhappy with regard to the way they are leaving Carrara behind. As noted by Havos, "If you use Cararra or Poser, the "potential inconvenience" is a good deal more than minor".

kyoto kid

TesseractSpace said:

Crescent said:

 

I don't like the encryption, either, as it stops me from fixing and customizing settings in files but I might even put up with that if I could bloody well keep my current content organization intact.  DO NOT TELL ME I CAN MAKE A GAZILLION SHORTCUTS TO FAKE THINGS.  I use several Runtimes to keep things sorted the way I need them. I regularly create and blow away Runtimes when I'm done with them. I have over 30 different folders for install files so I can easily find what I want to install.  I don't remember products by name or vendor so looking through an alphabetical list is useless for me.  Sorting through a list of what someone else considers fantasy vs. sci-fi or whatever is useless because I won't always agree with the 'official' selections.  It would take days or weeks for me to tag all of my purchases so I could find them.  (Over 15 years worth of purchases = lots of stuff to tag.)

I buy, I download directly into a categorized folder, I install to the correct Runtime and I'm done.  (If the vendor did a lot of vanity folder garbage, I strip it out and resave the .zip so future installs are cleaner.)  It's almost as fast as using DC but I don't have to spend a ton of time trying to figure out where DAZ thought my purchase should go then tagging, making shortcuts, etc. to get things in a semi-workable state.  

Again, for those of you that like the new organization system - great.  Mazel Tov.  I'm unsarcastically happy for you.  Just stop insisting that I'm an idiot or a Luddite because the system you like doesn't work for me. I don't consider you dumb for liking the new organization system so I'd appreciate the same level of respect in return.

Thanks.

In the quest to make things easier for new users, they should remember that more experienced users want to continue using methods and have access to features that they've gotten used to using. Sometimes removing old features is unavoidable or even desirable, but Connect strikes me as an attempt to implement an 'easy mode' for content management. Which is fine. I actually like connect other than some not so minor technical issues that your tech people are getting an earful of. But the Connect Only content can be taken as a means of forcing adoption of this 'easy mode' which is not cool. I can understand where it's related to the encryption, though that is a problem in and of itself. I just want to strongly suggest that there never come a time where unencrypted content is deliberately released as Connect Only as the only feature that could possibly come from that is a rather questionable sort of convenience. (Though at least for those who like working in 'expert' mode, the non-encrypted Connect content does install in neat little single folders that can be modifiied to taste, zipped for backup and moved to wherever works for you. Sorta saves the step of unzipping to a new folder to fix vanity folders and such. Just have to zip it up for backup when done. Oh, and probably tell connect that you've unistalled it after you've done what you needed to since that'd likely leave an empty folder where it expects to find something.  About the only issue would be not having the metadata one gets from DIM, but if you're not bothering with the Smart Content, that's usually not an issue, I think.)

...it is sort of akin to the approach MS has taken with Win 10.  They assumed because the "average" user doesn't or rarely update(s) his/her system, they have to implement a mandatory update policy so that even power users (such as myself) are not given the choice to choose which updates to install.

caravelle

Coming back after a few hours I see that Jack and Richard worked out a solution for the problem! The meanwhile famous Toll Booth is still 'Encrypted only', but I hope that tomorrow I see the manual download, too. Thank you!!

kyoto kid

Richard Haseltine said:

Jack and I have just spoken to Daz management. This was a case of wires getting crossed, there was absolutely no intention to deprive PC+ members of their promised benefits so the product will be fixed to work as a standard download. There may well, in future, be special Connect-only encrypted freebies but they will not be the PC+ monthly or weekly freebies.

...thank you both.  Will keep an eye on it for the change.

kyoto kid

fool said:

TesseractSpace said:

wiz said:

cherpenbeck said:

I'm a German publisher (small one), and I decided to sell all my books without DRM, despite the fact that nearly all of them are pirated on the second day of release at the latest. Most of our readers are honest, and I won't inconvenience these honest people just because some others are dishonest. Yes, I do loose sales this way, maybe a few, maybe some more, but ...

Applause!

The readers reward that stand, too. You probably don't have with and without DRM data for your own sales, but it's out there for other publishers. TOR is a pretty decent sized publisher. They dropped DRM, and their legitimate sales shot up something like 20% the first year and another 20% the next.

Some of the articles around on the TOR decision make for interesting reading on the subject of DRM and the damage it can do, to both consumers and businesses and to the market as a whole. It's also more relevant to this market, as books are often the products of single authors working through a vendor/publisher rather than what are usually large collaborative efforts like major software packages. (I wouldn't touch any articles or data from the music industry. The mess the RIAA has made there goes well beyond the scope of DRM)

 

I do not do digital downloads of music either, I buy CD's, think I am the only person who does, but then again I buy books and DVD's of movies too  they prob have DRM but as long as they play on my player its fine

point being I do not need to be on the internet to use them either!

...I not only purchase CD's but when I can find it, vinyl as well.

By the way, thank you very muchas well for pointing out the mistake that tool booth was indeed not encrypted and has an accompanying CR2.

kyoto kid

frank0314 said:

mmitchell_houston said:

timmins.william said:

I don't think there's any real chance DRM will go away until a few months of sales data come in. At that point we'll all see if the customers actually care.

I agree with William. Time (and $$$) will tell if DRM is good, bad or it doesn't matter. Remember, although the anti-DRM group here in the Forums is VERY vocal, they may not represent a larger group of non-Forum users who either don't care or don't even know what DRM is.

I am pleased to know that at least some sort of "doomsday switch" scenario is in place. I'm not 100% reassured, but I'm about 85%. 

On the PLUS side, I'm happy to hear about the addition of an "Install" tab (or whatever it will be called). I've only played with DS 4.9 a little bit so far, and found the whole Connect thing to be a bit confusing and not as easy to use as the DIM.

We will never get a its good or its bad. Forum users only make up 8-10% of the customer base here at Daz. What everyone in the forums can dislike the majority who aren't vocal may like.

...or just don't voice their opinion as they don't use the forums. They still may not like it and simply not make a purchase or go elsewhere to find something similar.

argel1200

I expect I will be spending more at RMP and RDNA in the near future. I jsut wish they would povide metadata so I could use it with Smart Content.

namffuak

frank0314 said:

mmitchell_houston said:

timmins.william said:

I don't think there's any real chance DRM will go away until a few months of sales data come in. At that point we'll all see if the customers actually care.

I agree with William. Time (and $$$) will tell if DRM is good, bad or it doesn't matter. Remember, although the anti-DRM group here in the Forums is VERY vocal, they may not represent a larger group of non-Forum users who either don't care or don't even know what DRM is.

I am pleased to know that at least some sort of "doomsday switch" scenario is in place. I'm not 100% reassured, but I'm about 85%. 

On the PLUS side, I'm happy to hear about the addition of an "Install" tab (or whatever it will be called). I've only played with DS 4.9 a little bit so far, and found the whole Connect thing to be a bit confusing and not as easy to use as the DIM.

We will never get a its good or its bad. Forum users only make up 8-10% of the customer base here at Daz. What everyone in the forums can dislike the majority who aren't vocal may like.

With all due respect - I really think you're high on the percentages. Even counting the one-time posters I'd be suprised if the actual count exceeded five percent, with the more vocal among us being in the one to three percent range.

SnowSultan

I expect I will be spending more at RMP and RDNA in the near future. I jsut wish they would povide metadata so I could use it with Smart Content.

I just bought about $15 worth of products here that can't be purchased anywhere else. People might not want to be so quick to say that they'll shop elsewhere when there is quite a difference in quality and selection between the marketplaces.

Oso3D

This next month I have about $200 more in items I can only get here. (Specialized shaders because my interest shifted back to 3DL)

After that, though, I'm going to try to shop elsewhere for a while. There's a bunch of stuff over on Rendo I've had my eye on. And we'll see how things unfold here.

 

frogimus

SnowSultan said:

I expect I will be spending more at RMP and RDNA in the near future. I jsut wish they would povide metadata so I could use it with Smart Content.

I just bought about $15 worth of products here that can't be purchased anywhere else. People might not want to be so quick to say that they'll shop elsewhere when there is quite a difference in quality and selection between the marketplaces.

I guess everyone has their opinions and preferences, but (other than a small handfull of vendors) I tend to find much better stuff elsewhere. Daz had better sales (notice the past tense?) and the convenience of DIM.

DarkRiderDLMC

lx said:

caravelle said:

Being a (paying) PC+ member has always been a pleasure for me. Until today: When I opened the Daz newsletter, I saw that that the Toll Booth, the actual weekly freebie for PC+ (and free with a purchase for non-members) is Daz Connect only. Which means that to get the promised free product, Daz forces me to upgrade DS to 4.9 and download via DC. Not fair, I think, and a bit brazen. Please correct this asap. And keep in mind: No matter how greedy a company may be, satisfied customers are what it needs to be successful. Even my Daz addiction has its limits.

Wow you got a newsletter o.o I have to wait houuurs for mine to turn up yet (on average.) Does it take longer to send emails to Australia o.O

I think it's fine. They need to use some regularly appearing type items to get data, and the choice of object and caption is hilarious.

If you don't want a DRM product, you don't have to 'purchase' it. I imagine that is the sort of data they'll be looking at.

Don't feel bad, I'm an older version poser user.  Does me no good at all.  I still keep sending money though...

 

Stezza

For us Carrara users it's like

[encrypt]I think that ███ ██████ █████ and also ██████ █████████ and Daz can ████████████ ███ ██████████[/encrypt]

Richard Haseltine

The Toll Booth has definitely been updated, but it may just have missed the last sync so please try checking it again a couple of hours after this post.

TesseractSpace

SnowSultan said:

I expect I will be spending more at RMP and RDNA in the near future. I jsut wish they would povide metadata so I could use it with Smart Content.

I just bought about $15 worth of products here that can't be purchased anywhere else. People might not want to be so quick to say that they'll shop elsewhere when there is quite a difference in quality and selection between the marketplaces.

I think you sell the other stores short. Due to the issues I had with my library I've had a chance to become reacquainted with my library of non-daz content. (I do think a tool to streamline the creation of metadata would be a godsend for working with other content. May have to learn the SDK and make something like that if it's possible. Method I'm using now is a bit tedious with having to work across several panes to get something properly situated.) While there's obviously a lot of low quality content out there, there are plenty of items that are of similar quality as ones to be found here. Also there are items to be found that likely wouldn't be sold here because they don't quite fit the market. And things made by artists who've left DAZ for one reason or another. 

Richard Haseltine

Richard Haseltine said:

The Toll Booth has definitely been updated, but it may just have missed the last sync so please try checking it again a couple of hours after this post.

Or then again maybe it crept under the wire - looks to be updated.

TesseractSpace

Richard Haseltine said:

The Toll Booth has definitely been updated, but it may just have missed the last sync so please try checking it again a couple of hours after this post.

um... It shows the correct download forms. But on my screen it's no longer free.

Stezza

but no longer a free item

Stezza

and now just changed to free