Encryption discussions go here

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  • HavosHavos Posts: 3,135
    edited November 2015

    You do not need to buy a version of DS without DAZ Connect as you can use the latest version (ie 4.9) without it. You would only need DAZ Connect to install any DAZ Connect Only content that you may buy, and currently none of this even exists. All your existing content, or any non DAZ Connect Only content your buy later can continue to be installed using DIM or manually. I do not like DRM either, but things are not quite as bad as you describe (at least not yet!).

    Post edited by Havos on
  • DAZ_RawbDAZ_Rawb Posts: 471

    I like the web store. I visit it regularly and spend money there. I don't want to buy things inside the program. I see this in free apps on Android and it is annoying to me to the point of me uninstalling it. This Daz connect is leaving a bad taste in my mouth. I don't mind DRM for the charaters,clothing and props but don't DRM the base figures I can get characters,clothes and props somewhere else but not the base figures. I don't share files, but I do like to move files around. I also use Studio on more than one computer (Laptop) in my home. I also like to alter things to my hearts content. I purchased the Pro version of Daz studio when it  first came out because I like to have the power to alter the things I purchase. Is there any chance that you can sell me a version of Daz Studio Pro without Connect: maybe something like Poser Pro Game Dev (I purchased this) with 5 gigs of royalty free content. I will pay for this. Heck, sell me a usb dongle, for a long time anytime I needed to use Lightwave I had to plug in my usb dongle to get full use of the program.  Lightwave was installed on both my laptop and my desktop and usb dongle made it work. Finally Lightwave saw the light and dropped the dongle but it could work for you. I only need the base models to be open. I can purchase clothing, character and other items at other sites and the Daz Install Manager is working fine for me, just don't lock out being able to make things smart content by us users. My favorite purchases from other sites get added to smart content via the content manager inside studio and It works just fine. My hope is that the new Poser Pro doesn't get infected with DRM. If Poser Pro goes DRM too, I'm seriously going to start using Lightwave 2015 again and rendering with Otoy Octane with all my old content.

    I just want to step in here really quickly and state that the base models (Genesis 1/2/3 Male & Female) are going to be completely unencrypted for the 4.9 release. So no worries about getting those and building your own morphs and the like on top of them.

  • Steven-VSteven-V Posts: 727
    edited November 2015

    So I am confused. Pardon me if this has been answered but if so, I have come late to the discussion and may have missed it.

    With all this talk of encryption, I have a question. Say I buy a shirt in DAZ Connect. I decide that I want to go in and modify the UV map, say to put a Superman "S" on the chest, using something like GiMP or Photoshop. I have done this very thing with various clothing in DAZ. This has previously been considerd (as far as I know), "OK," as long as I don't sell or otherwise distribute the UV map to other people, and only use it for my own purposes.  It seems like this may no loger be possible with files bought via Connect. Is that true? Or will we still be able to get our hands on the UV maps to edit as we would like?

    If not this is a major hassle for me. I am making a superhero comic-book, and sometimes the 3D model of the clothing is fine, but I need to "jazz it up" with superheroic coloring and symbols. And although some of that can be done with shaders, a lot of it simply must be done with editing UV maps.

    Post edited by Steven-V on
  • lxlx Posts: 2,843

    That's editing the texture, not the actual UV map, which you can still do. You can see where the texture image file is located (via surfaces) the same as ever and image files are not encoded. The files are the same as before (just in a new library) the only difference being that you can't open/edit the DSF and DUF files.

  • Steven-VSteven-V Posts: 727

    Ah, OK. That isn't so bad then. Editing texture maps is all I ever really do.

  • And if you did want to modify the UVs you could still export as OBJ, at base resolution, remap, and load as a new UV set.

  • KharmaKharma Posts: 2,400
    lx said:

    That's editing the texture, not the actual UV map, which you can still do. You can see where the texture image file is located (via surfaces) the same as ever and image files are not encoded. The files are the same as before (just in a new library) the only difference being that you can't open/edit the DSF and DUF files.

    I just need to clarify this about the new files library....does this mean that if I use the Connect feature to download,all my files that were d/l through Dim are duplicated on my harddrive? I don't really have the room to have double of every file, so am wondering if I should delete my current library and start over with connect or just stick with Dim for d/l for now.  I have installed the newest Beta but have not used the connect feature as of yet until I understand exactly what will happen with my files.  As far as encryption or whatever goes that won't affect me, I do like Dim however and as long as connect works similarily that's ok if that will be the only option eventually.  Also will I still be able to get all my files onto another computer down the road as I only use a laptop right now but plan on purchasing a desktop with more power ?

  • lxlx Posts: 2,843
    edited November 2015
    Kharma said:
    lx said:

    That's editing the texture, not the actual UV map, which you can still do. You can see where the texture image file is located (via surfaces) the same as ever and image files are not encoded. The files are the same as before (just in a new library) the only difference being that you can't open/edit the DSF and DUF files.

    I just need to clarify this about the new files library....does this mean that if I use the Connect feature to download,all my files that were d/l through Dim are duplicated on my harddrive? I don't really have the room to have double of every file, so am wondering if I should delete my current library and start over with connect or just stick with Dim for d/l for now.  I have installed the newest Beta but have not used the connect feature as of yet until I understand exactly what will happen with my files.  As far as encryption or whatever goes that won't affect me, I do like Dim however and as long as connect works similarily that's ok if that will be the only option eventually.  Also will I still be able to get all my files onto another computer down the road as I only use a laptop right now but plan on purchasing a desktop with more power ?

    Simplest answer is stick with DIM for now if you are happy using DIM. In the beta Connect files are encrypted, but we're told that on live they won't be. Either way, if you're unsure, don't change anything. Connect is not required for 4.9 in any way (at least until we're told Connect only content is here, but it isn't yet.)

    In the end you'll probably be happier with Connect in your situation, but for now while it's new and being changed a lot I would personally wait before doing anything. All your current things will continue to work the same.

    Post edited by lx on
  • argel1200argel1200 Posts: 677
    edited November 2015
    lx said:

    Simplest answer is stick with DIM for now if you are happy using DIM. In the beta Connect files are encrypted, but we're told that on live they won't be. Either way, if you're unsure, don't change anything. Connect is not required for 4.9 in any way (at least until we're told Connect only content is here, but it isn't yet.)

    In the end you'll probably be happier with Connect in your situation, but for now while it's new and being changed a lot I would personally wait before doing anything. All your current things will continue to work the same.

    IIRC, after the beta new products downloaded via DAZ Connect will be encrypted.

    Post edited by argel1200 on
  • KharmaKharma Posts: 2,400

    I am ok with the encrytion, I don't see any need to manually do anything with my files as long as I can catagorize them, I was more concerned wilth will I end up with duplicates of all the files I have downloaded with DIM coming through connect or if it will know not to download the files I already have and only download what I want or does it automatically download connect files of what I already have installed?

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 6,011
    Kharma said:

    I am ok with the encrytion, I don't see any need to manually do anything with my files as long as I can catagorize them, I was more concerned wilth will I end up with duplicates of all the files I have downloaded with DIM coming through connect or if it will know not to download the files I already have and only download what I want or does it automatically download connect files of what I already have installed?

    One happy customer. :)

    Some of us are less than thrilled with the encryption. I'm planning on not using the connect version, if that means there are products I can't use, then so be it.

     

  • DAZ_RawbDAZ_Rawb Posts: 471
    argel1200 said:
    lx said:

    Simplest answer is stick with DIM for now if you are happy using DIM. In the beta Connect files are encrypted, but we're told that on live they won't be. Either way, if you're unsure, don't change anything. Connect is not required for 4.9 in any way (at least until we're told Connect only content is here, but it isn't yet.)

    In the end you'll probably be happier with Connect in your situation, but for now while it's new and being changed a lot I would personally wait before doing anything. All your current things will continue to work the same.

    IIRC, after the beta new products downloaded via DAZ Connect will be encrypted.

    That has changed since the original announcement. An upcoming beta will change it so only products marked as "encrypted-only" in the store will be saved on your system with the Daz specific files in encrypted format. The current beta still encrypts all of the Daz specific files when you download any product through Daz Connect. I would ask that those of you that have specialized workflows that utilize tools outside of Daz Studio (i.e. Exporting to 3rd party software, using the Hexagon/Bryce bridges, using external renderers like Reality, Lux or Octane) would please use this build to make sure that the encrypted content doesn't have any adverse effects.

     

    Just so nobody gets any incorrect ideas, the encryption system used for the future "encrypted-only" content is the exact same thing that Daz Connect was doing for all of it's downloaded content in the current beta and before. So no crazy additional protection for the "encrypted-only" content.

  • DAZ_RawbDAZ_Rawb Posts: 471
    Kharma said:

    I am ok with the encrytion, I don't see any need to manually do anything with my files as long as I can catagorize them, I was more concerned wilth will I end up with duplicates of all the files I have downloaded with DIM coming through connect or if it will know not to download the files I already have and only download what I want or does it automatically download connect files of what I already have installed?

    A future build will enable the feature to not re-download the contents of files if they were already downloaded through DIM. It does however copy instead of move so you would have to uninstall through DIM if you don't want the second copy.

  • A future build will enable the feature to not re-download the contents of files if they were already downloaded through DIM. It does however copy instead of move so you would have to uninstall through DIM if you don't want the second copy.

    Wow! I am not even sure I have enough space for two full copies. Any chance we can pick and choose what to migrate over? Or what about moving everything and creating symbolic links to the old locations?

  • KharmaKharma Posts: 2,400

    @DAZ_Rawb so what you are saying if I connect in version 4.9 Beta that the program will automatically download the encrypted files or it will show me all the products I have purchased in the past and give me the option to download or not through Connect or just continue using my Dim d/l products as in prior studio, even tho I am working in 4.9 Beta and continue to use Dim to download and install products to use in the Beta.  I just want to make sure that I can have a look at all the options in the beta without actually downloading anything right now through connect ... I hope that makes sense or maybe I am asking in the wrong thread?

  • HavosHavos Posts: 3,135
    Kharma said:

    I am ok with the encrytion, I don't see any need to manually do anything with my files as long as I can catagorize them, I was more concerned wilth will I end up with duplicates of all the files I have downloaded with DIM coming through connect or if it will know not to download the files I already have and only download what I want or does it automatically download connect files of what I already have installed?

    Even if you have no personal interest in looking at the encrypted files, you might be affected if you use 3rd party products that would need to read these files. From what we have been told even some DS plug-ins and scripts like pose converters or Pose Builder, may need to be changed to make them work properly with the encrypted files. Therefore it might be advisable to wait until the version of DAZ Connect that loads existing products unencrypted has arrived. It is your decision, you just need to be aware of potential consequences.

  • KharmaKharma Posts: 2,400
    Havos said:
    Kharma said:

    I am ok with the encrytion, I don't see any need to manually do anything with my files as long as I can catagorize them, I was more concerned wilth will I end up with duplicates of all the files I have downloaded with DIM coming through connect or if it will know not to download the files I already have and only download what I want or does it automatically download connect files of what I already have installed?

    Even if you have no personal interest in looking at the encrypted files, you might be affected if you use 3rd party products that would need to read these files. From what we have been told even some DS plug-ins and scripts like pose converters or Pose Builder, may need to be changed to make them work properly with the encrypted files. Therefore it might be advisable to wait until the version of DAZ Connect that loads existing products unencrypted has arrived. It is your decision, you just need to be aware of potential consequences.

    That was another question, I use genX and the Pose builders and converters and was wondering if anyone knew yet if the encryption affected using those products

     

  • Kharma said:

    @DAZ_Rawb so what you are saying if I connect in version 4.9 Beta that the program will automatically download the encrypted files or it will show me all the products I have purchased in the past and give me the option to download or not through Connect or just continue using my Dim d/l products as in prior studio, even tho I am working in 4.9 Beta and continue to use Dim to download and install products to use in the Beta.  I just want to make sure that I can have a look at all the options in the beta without actually downloading anything right now through connect ... I hope that makes sense or maybe I am asking in the wrong thread?

    It won't download unless you tell it to, which you can do on an item-by-item basis.

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,922
    edited November 2015
    nicstt said:

    I too don't consider it in the same light as other DRM content. I've been concerned and remain concerned that we don't know where this will lead. and like @Pendraia with who's post above I agree with, I will continue to watch. As an aside, my spending has slowed quite dramatically, since this started. I wonder if it has affected others the same. To some extent, the new FAQ, and this first post here are encouraging and if there from the start, might have calmed me down somewhat - and maybe others too.

    It hasn't affected my spending at the moment...it has made me hold off until my PC club expires before I decide to renew or not though. Just bought a few things here today.

     

    Edited to add...I would be happy if there is someway to edit paths or information in files as I often hand edit in notepad to either change incorrect paths or to move things in the parameters tab so they make more sense to myself...

     

    Post edited by Pendraia on
  • linvanchenelinvanchene Posts: 1,172
    edited November 2015

    edited and moved to the beta thread because of user feedback.

    Seems the issue I discovered may be caused by the new folder structure that was implemented for DRM but it has nothing to do with the ethics of it.

     

     

    Post edited by linvanchene on
  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 6,011
    Pendraia said:
    nicstt said:

    I too don't consider it in the same light as other DRM content. I've been concerned and remain concerned that we don't know where this will lead. and like @Pendraia with who's post above I agree with, I will continue to watch. As an aside, my spending has slowed quite dramatically, since this started. I wonder if it has affected others the same. To some extent, the new FAQ, and this first post here are encouraging and if there from the start, might have calmed me down somewhat - and maybe others too.

    It hasn't affected my spending at the moment...it has made me hold off until my PC club expires before I decide to renew or not though. Just bought a few things here today.

     

    Edited to add...I would be happy if there is someway to edit paths or information in files as I often hand edit in notepad to either change incorrect paths or to move things in the parameters tab so they make more sense to myself...

     

    Agree. Artists like to use tools as they work for them; this method seems draconian.

  • IceCrMnIceCrMn Posts: 937

    BEFORE - unencrypted DIM installation

    All textures were placed in one library folder in a more or less logical way:

    My DAZ 3D Library\runtime\textures\ARTISTNAME\PRODUCTNAME

    This actually wasn't a single folder, it was many,spread out over the whole runtime/textures directory tree.Some content makers even got creative here and started using variants of texture/textures/!textures .

    This made it possible that I was able to quickly browse to other textures of my favorite artists directly inside the "browse / load image" dialogue that uses the default windows explorer save / load windows.

    This is how I've been doing it on both the release version and the beta. Is this not working for you?

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 6,011
    icecrmn said:

    BEFORE - unencrypted DIM installation

    All textures were placed in one library folder in a more or less logical way:

    My DAZ 3D Library\runtime\textures\ARTISTNAME\PRODUCTNAME

    This actually wasn't a single folder, it was many,spread out over the whole runtime/textures directory tree.Some content makers even got creative here and started using variants of texture/textures/!textures .

    This made it possible that I was able to quickly browse to other textures of my favorite artists directly inside the "browse / load image" dialogue that uses the default windows explorer save / load windows.

    This is how I've been doing it on both the release version and the beta. Is this not working for you?

    Obviously not, as the poster expressed issues; would you mind explaining how it works for you?

  • IceCrMnIceCrMn Posts: 937
    edited November 2015
    nicstt said:
    icecrmn said:

    BEFORE - unencrypted DIM installation

    All textures were placed in one library folder in a more or less logical way:

    My DAZ 3D Library\runtime\textures\ARTISTNAME\PRODUCTNAME

    This actually wasn't a single folder, it was many,spread out over the whole runtime/textures directory tree.Some content makers even got creative here and started using variants of texture/textures/!textures .

    This made it possible that I was able to quickly browse to other textures of my favorite artists directly inside the "browse / load image" dialogue that uses the default windows explorer save / load windows.

    This is how I've been doing it on both the release version and the beta. Is this not working for you?

    Obviously not, as the poster expressed issues; would you mind explaining how it works for you?

    on the surface tab I click the map for the channel I want to edit and selct Browse. This opens up windows file explorer to the location of the textures/maps.

    I right click the texture/map I want to edit and select Open with..

    Then I choose Krita/GIMP and edit.

    When done I choose Save as.. in my image editor and make a new file name so I don't overwrite the original.

    Post edited by IceCrMn on
  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 6,011
    icecrmn said:
    nicstt said:
    icecrmn said:

    BEFORE - unencrypted DIM installation

    All textures were placed in one library folder in a more or less logical way:

    My DAZ 3D Library\runtime\textures\ARTISTNAME\PRODUCTNAME

    This actually wasn't a single folder, it was many,spread out over the whole runtime/textures directory tree.Some content makers even got creative here and started using variants of texture/textures/!textures .

    This made it possible that I was able to quickly browse to other textures of my favorite artists directly inside the "browse / load image" dialogue that uses the default windows explorer save / load windows.

    This is how I've been doing it on both the release version and the beta. Is this not working for you?

    Obviously not, as the poster expressed issues; would you mind explaining how it works for you?

    on the surface tab I click the map for the channel I want to edit and selct Browse. This opens up windows file explorer to the location of the textures/maps.

    I right click the texture/map I want to edit and select Open with..

    Then I choose Krita/GIMP and edit.

    When done I choose Save as.. in my image editor and make a new file name so I don't overwrite the original.

    TY.

    I understood him to mean browsing for other textures from the same (or maybe other artists), and not from that particular product.

  • linvanchenelinvanchene Posts: 1,172
    edited November 2015
     

    edited and moved to the beta thread because of user feedback.

    seems the issue I discovered may be caused by the new folder structure that was implemented for DRM but it has nothing to do with the ethics of it.

     

     

    Post edited by linvanchene on
  • IceCrMnIceCrMn Posts: 937

    I understand what you want, but as you said, this has nothing to do with encryption.These assets aren't encrypted.

    actually I have been testing the new beta,and on multiple operating systems(Linux and Windows).
    I have it up and running on Windows 10, Debian(Linux), Gentoo (linux source based distro), and Ubuntu(Linux) so far. This week I plan to give a BSD varient a try if I have time.

    I agree that tracking things down by sku isn't all that easy, but I've not had much better luck with remembering all the names of the vendors/products either.So I've been using a combination of right clicking stuff in the Content Library and "browse to file location", and Smart Content.When I want to use just a few parts of a material preset, I use the CTRL+ click method to selectively replace maps/textures.Then I can open them from the Surface pane as I normally would.So far, my workflow hasn't changed much.
    I am using Smart Content a lot more though.That feature has seen much improvment.It makes finding things like hair, poses, and props a lot easier than directory diving for them :)

    anyway,,probably shouldn't derail this thread anymore than we have already.This discussion is probably better suited for the beta thread than the encryption thread as it doesn't pertain to the encryption rather the directory structures being used.

  • As far as I am concerned, I will not purchase via connect. I dont care if I miss out on connect only content. Im curious to see what 4.9 can offer, but I dont want connect on my computer at all.

    I really appreciate the decision to keep all current products in their current download format, manual, DIM, and for those who like the connect system, im happy that they now have the option to use it.

    It would really show an appreciation for your customers if you produced DS with a non-connect version. I would jump on that in a second. Yes, I know that I can opt out of connect in the current version, but I just dont like the fact that it will be there in the first place. Seems to be that there have been a number of folk who have requested the same thing.

    Im a bit of a luddite, but if the wooden shoe fits...(yah, I know, I mixed an English and French reference, but it sounded good). I dont need yet another software that attempts to communincate through the internet. I understand that you are trying to protect your artists work but, since connect has been available for awhile now, havent the pirates already cracked the encryption?

    My spending has slowed down a bit. I try to focus now on purchasing what I think may be useful as opposed to impulse buying stuff that I can get a deal on. I expect the slowdown to continue.

  • I dont need yet another software that attempts to communincate through the internet.

    DS won't connect, with a lower-case c, unless you tell it to and give it your log-in details.

  • I dont need yet another software that attempts to communincate through the internet.

    DS won't connect, with a lower-case c, unless you tell it to and give it your log-in details.

    4.9 is still in beta at the moment, is that right? I dont think I saw the general release notification yet.

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