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...like with K4 and the YT5s, which were a year and a half later and shortly before Genesis and G2F respectively. I finally have Leela, Tracey, and the other younger characters (as well as younger versions of them) looking like I imagined them long before I got into this. Like I said, if I keep waiting to recreate them each time a new base Genesis is released, the project will never get fnished.
It appears like Genesis, G2, and G3 all have advantages, and optimally, many would be happy with a 'best of all three,' although I'm not sure if that's practical at this point... maybe G4. Until then, I think all 3 will have a place in people's workflow depending on their particular needs/interests. At least all 3 seem to still be supported to some extent, if by nothing else through some very nice sales. :)
And that is probably the best take I've heard on this whole 'issue' yet.
I'm using G3F as my primary if only because she's easy to morph.
I'm happy with G3F/V7, which is why I'm leaving this thread behind.
CHEERS!
I'll point out that learning that collision target can be separate from fit makes it a lot easier to dress Genesis 3 with previous outfits -- pose the outfit or something it's fit on (like supersuit), then collide with G3.
But is she any easier to morph than any other figure? I've done some morphs for her, seems the same as G2F and Genesis really.
Very, VERY interesting commentary. I appreciate that you took so much time to write a detailed, historical account for us.
You said a few things I have thought in the past, particularly the bit about the 180-degree turn between G1 and G2. Like you, I thought unimesh was the way to go -- and then they suddenly dropped it. I found that very odd.
Thanks again.
Someone at Rendo has just released a "My sisters for GF3" morph set of 5 kids at different ages (well OK, maybe only 3 or 4 of them can be called kids) for GF3...
..waiting to see if Zev0 releases a new Growing Up.
I've found her so. I had a bear of a time not mangling the other Genesis figures. More evenly-sized quads helps, as I don't have to worry as much about warping the wrong edge loops accidentally. I put off making characters altogether for years because of it.
Soft select tools are powerful things applied correctly, and having to work with some areas vertex-by-vertex is both tedious and painful. With G3F, I don't have to do that for anything but a cleanup pass once I get the bulk of the shaping done.
..waiting to see if Zev0 releases a new Growing Up.
I think he will have his hands full for some time with making a Skinbuilder version for her. He said that the original was a truly massive and difficult project.
Must be made by people from the days where you only had a keybord, some of them still seem to have a hard time using anything else. Never understood why, the mouse has made many things so much easier and intuitive.
Not necessarily. Hotkeys can be a lot easier if the only alternative is to bring a dropdown menu + one or two submenu's / >'s. Esp. if it's something that you're doing over and over again.
Then there are a few actions which are a combination of both, such as Ctrl + mouse wheel-- which is vastly superior to dropdown menu + zoom in, or right click + zoom in or whatever.
If I was smart (and I'm not, otherwise I'd be doing pictures right now instead of haunting the forums) I'd have stopped with Genesis. I held off on Genesis for a very long time, as most of the style I'm working on are either more toony or more "60s comic book" than realistic, but then they started coming out with toons, toons that I could mix infinitely with animals, aliens, clothing, genders, and BANG: time to update.
I still use Genesis 1 for most of my toony female characters, BTW. Sometimes use it on toony males or rarely, realistic males if little more than their face is showing. However, G2M has mostly replaced Genesis for my male characters.
G2F I use for toon females that need realistic musculature and for whom gigantic toony/anime eyes are not needed. Same with G2M. I have no intention of ever using G3F, and the fact that G2F has been 80~90% dropped is really aggravating me. Esp. the fact that Ravenhair (one of my favorite clothing venfors) dropped her from the getgo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She still supported G1 for a time, but nope, gotta drop her the split second G3F comes out >:(
Zev0 though, I have to give serious props to, for continuing support of Genesis 1 :) :) :)
I started using Daz back in November. Since then I've been learning how to use Genesis and Genesis 2. I'm now coming to the realization that I could probably have stuck with Genesis.
I regret nothing, though. ;)
Gotcha, thanks for explaining. I never had problems mangling the other figures. The size of the quads have never been a concern for me, even Genesis is a ton better laid out then when I crafted my own figures in Max years ago :) And I'm pretty good about selecting the right geometry, even when you make your own meshes, you often have a few wonky points with loops that you learn to work around.
Pretty much every 3D package I've used has soft select, including Shade so that's not figure specific. But yeah soft select is certainlly useful.
Considering how nice the morphs were for Genesis and Genesis 2 Female I didn't think there was truly any difference in the morph ability. What still seems more of a llimitation based on the users skillset. Like we had one PA make a certain type of morph for G2F, and when a different PA made a similar set of morphs for G3F and people exposed all the flaws with the nwer one. So it's not really about the figure, but the user.
I did make it clear that I was talking about myself-- but then it's been a couple of years since I tried morphing G2F, and longer still for Genesis. That, and some study in the meantime. Who knows? Maybe I'll load up G2F and it'll go perfectly, where it didn't earlier. I know I had a lot less trouble out of the box with G3F than I did for anything previous.
For me (and I've never spoken for anyone else), the new mesh flow makes for better predictibility when I use the tools I have to hand. With earlier Genesis forms, I had to be far more careful about what I grabbed lest I shred the mesh, and that usually meant either correcting the mesh vertex-by-vertex afterwards, or skipping the soft select for those regions and doing it by hand.
Growing Up and SB for G3F have already started production. SkinBuilder for G3F will include Gen maps and some other new features. That's what we are testing now. Still lots to do. Right now I am juggling 7 products lol.
I really like G3F , a lot of G2F clothing works fine with it as it includes a base G2F "clone". the poses can be an issue but i did find that the gen2 to gen 3 pose converter on the marketplace works very well. I like mostly that they are more intigrated to work with iray and such. People may have a love/hate relatonship with them but i think its a step in the right direction and i encourage anyone to not pooh-pah em right away.
but then again the good news is apparently theres still tons of stuff out there for gen2 and v4 too so..... whatever works for you
for me however i want to see MOAR Gen3 stuff! cant wait!
Nice to know SB will include Gen materials. It's the one thing I'm having a problem getting sorted for the characters I've been building.
Sounds interesting, will the growing up morphs have separate head and body morphs? I know in Genesis and G2F/M they did not.
Well the reason I don't want to do seperate head and body morphs is because people will end up dialling adult heads on kids bodies (resulting in weird results) and would defeat the purpose of the product, but I will include a head neutralizer morph. The way it's meant to work is that character heads\shapes are blended into the GU morph at percentages in order to make them younger. That is the way the product is designed.
@Zev0 Be sure to let us know when you've got them ready to go. I could use both products.
Will do..I will start a thread when a product is near completion.
...OK now this can change things, especially SB as it will allow the ability to set up custom skins. Would be nice to add freckles either as part of SB or as an overlay add on.
So now, looking at what I would feel are the essentials to work with G3F:
Head and Body Morphs for G3F
Expression Morphs for G3F.
Skin Builder for G3F
Growing up for G3F
Pose Builder Bundle.
G3F Head Morph Resource Kit.
G3F Body Morph Resource Kit. (?)
Wear Them All for G3F.
Evenly sized quads for SubD has got to be one of the stupidest things said in this forum. And this comment has apparently been said by the creator of the G3F mesh.
...wow, just got an email promo from Fantasy Attic for new G3F content. For the most part, content for Gen4 (particularly Vicky) and some of the toon characters have been their main market..
The expressions for G3F are actually poses (G3F has her face rigged), and you can make all of the expressions in the kit out of the base dials. Pose Builder is already out, and you missed out SY's additional templates for things like long skirts and such.
If you're feeling ambitious, you can make all the clones you need down to Generation 3. There's even a thread with instructions running around here someplace. Kattey started it.
Edit: Here's the link--
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/24093/transferring-morphs-from-genesis-to-g2m-g2f-and-from-g2m-g2f-to-genesis-now-with-clones-works-on
...i"ve never been able to get the hang of creating my own clones.
I often use poses (inluding exporessions) as a base to work from to save time.
So which utilities are for fixing skirts. Looked throuygh the entire G3F catalogue & coldn't find them.
I usually use a high smoothing setting to get skirts to settle properly. Most of the time a setting of 5-10 is sufficient(at least 5 and/or double the original value), but in some cases you might want to go higher.
....I've had issues with the mesh "spiking" and crumpling at hgher smoothing values.
I've started to not bother fitting clothes, but rather place them, copy the pose in, and then scale and set them to collide with the figure (or under clothes).
I usually try the autofit first, but a good number of clothes just don't autofit right.